sniping
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Which Gun is Best
Forum Description: Need Advice? Ask the pros.
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=114700
Printed Date: 22 December 2024 at 9:32pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: sniping
Posted By: khaine
Subject: sniping
Date Posted: 29 September 2004 at 6:14pm
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is the pro carbine any good for sniping?
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Replies:
Posted By: Ariakon_Eagle
Date Posted: 29 September 2004 at 6:23pm
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You cant snipe in paintball...Paintballs just cant go far enough or accuarate enough to be able to snipe....If you just want one with good accuarcy, you can make any gun have good accuaracy(except for maybe a brass eagle) ------------- You call the Eagle, Eagle does the rest. |
Posted By: 98c - baller
Date Posted: 29 September 2004 at 8:26pm
| well i just posted somting u might want to look at, about the subject of sniping its on this page its called " a good sniping gun" |
Posted By: jeep 98 custom
Date Posted: 29 September 2004 at 8:30pm
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Yes. Buy 7.
------------- "Yes there are two path you can go back, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on" 
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Posted By: P3t3R
Date Posted: 29 September 2004 at 8:45pm
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no do not use a pro/carbine for sniping please dont i have a 98c with 14inch snipe barrel red dight sight raised sight rail power feed 3 position stock ez-sling and remote coil with an added progressive barrel for extra accuracy when needed and sticky grips for extra comfort now thats a sniper gun |
Posted By: vftactical2
Date Posted: 29 September 2004 at 9:26pm
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^^ no its a upped mislim gun no sniping and its not sniping its shooting a paintball from a designated distance ------------- vf tactical, tactical kaner kit, worrgames unimount, evolution hopper,and pmi 3000psi tank,shocktech beaver tail,e2 frame, |
Posted By: P3t3R
Date Posted: 29 September 2004 at 9:30pm
| lol u have a point there |
Posted By: ScarFace22
Date Posted: 29 September 2004 at 9:34pm
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This isn't going to last very long. ------------- 
Check my thread in the Great guns thread for Timmy tech help or PM me |
Posted By: That one Dude
Date Posted: 29 September 2004 at 9:45pm
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There's a reason that S.C. Village uses them as rental guns..........They suck, big time. ------------- Team Nemisis, Play The Game |
Posted By: khaine
Date Posted: 30 September 2004 at 5:35am
thats my post |
98c - baller wrote:Posted By: whack-a-mole
Date Posted: 30 September 2004 at 9:23am
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no, If you want to "snipe" get a 98sniper ------------- NASA and the Americans spent millions of dollars and hundreds of hours to develop a pen that would write in space.....The Russians used a pencil. |
Posted By: ScarFace22
Date Posted: 30 September 2004 at 10:06am
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Don't get any gun because there is no such thing as snipering in paintball. -------------
Check my thread in the Great guns thread for Timmy tech help or PM me |
Posted By: Gumbe02
Date Posted: 30 September 2004 at 3:44pm
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p3t3r there is not sniper never say u have a sniper gun a sniper barrle is the worse barrle i tryed i hated it ...so no no you dont have a good gun ------------- Mag shooter |
Posted By: Bango
Date Posted: 30 September 2004 at 4:39pm
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Pro/Carbines definately don't suck. Fields rent them out because they're reliable. |
Posted By: Amy's Angel
Date Posted: 30 September 2004 at 8:27pm
  Ladies and Gentlemen,
I must disagree with your opinions on sniping. It is easily possible. Armotech makes paintball rifles perfectly suited for that one job. Sniping. Scope and all. Semi auto. You are as good as gold on that field. Just hide in a good spot. Hahah. Alright I am outta here. ------------- NOW REMEMBER KIDS... FLIES SPREAD DISEASE... SO KEEP YOURS CLOSED !!! |
Posted By: vftactical2
Date Posted: 30 September 2004 at 8:46pm
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no icould take a blade find a could spot and shoot some one but there is no sniping sniping requires a high powered silenced rifle were shootin paintball gun a that only shoot about 150 yards thats not that far so there is no sniping and if sit back behind a tree and dont advance people will think your a little **edited** and if you dont like getting hit with a paintball your in the wrong sport/hobby oh ya and there is also no point in a scope since it makes you have tunnel vision and its very hard to even look through one cause of your goggles ------------- vf tactical, tactical kaner kit, worrgames unimount, evolution hopper,and pmi 3000psi tank,shocktech beaver tail,e2 frame, |
Posted By: Robert_Hawker
Date Posted: 30 September 2004 at 8:50pm
there is no such thing as sniping however you can be a good shot thus i have a designated sharp shooter on my teem for when you have to shoot from a distance and you dont want to give away your position. but if you call anything less that 150 yards sniping you need a new dictionary . trust me i have a freind who is a maine core sniper and he dosent think it is sniping is just paint conservarion...------------- Tipp A-5 Opsgear Saw Shroud Opsgear G36 Folding Stock 16" j&j |
Posted By: jaked588
Date Posted: 01 October 2004 at 7:11pm
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there is not sniping in paintball. especially in anything besides woods. ------------- 
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Posted By: Vitamin
Date Posted: 01 October 2004 at 7:31pm
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Quite children....your all wrong. ------------- 
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Posted By: ScarFace22
Date Posted: 01 October 2004 at 7:36pm
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I think its time for old soldier to come in and prove to these newbs that there is no such thing as snipering in paintball. -------------
Check my thread in the Great guns thread for Timmy tech help or PM me |
Posted By: Gumbe02
Date Posted: 01 October 2004 at 10:16pm
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haha yeah mabey ------------- Mag shooter |
Posted By: Buckwheat
Date Posted: 02 October 2004 at 8:46pm
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Sniping is possible in paintball. You all seem to think sniping is shooting a long distance, it is not. Sniping is the ability to shoot someone with your marker, and have it quiet enough and be well hidden enough for the target not to know where the shot came from.
No one has ever had a ball come out of nowhere and hit you, and you never saw or heard the shooter? |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 8:54am
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Time for the next round of the SR_Crewchief lecture tour:
First some basics need to be established. The game is paintball and for the purposes of this class it is played in the woods where the terrain dictates that you’ll be engaging each other most of the time at between 20 and 25 meters. (In other words close range) It is played most often by 2 opposing sides of roughly equal size. For all intent and purposes this game is modeled on military small unit combat. Now several you are going "whoo hoo, my kind of sniper country"…without knowing what makes a sniper. Many of you have gone to the dictionary and found a reference saying something to the effect that a sniper is someone who fires from concealment and have used this a your basis for your claim to being one in paintball. That's all well and dandy, except you ignore the rest of the definition. snip·er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sn p r)n. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place. Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth EditionCopyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Now you’ll note that this expanded definition is still quite general in it scope, after all anyone who squats behind bush to fire is a sniper which is not the case. So, since the dictionary has not resolved this we must consult the experts for a better definition of what makes a sniper in our chosen environment. It happens that I’ve had the opportunity to do just that from time to time in my 22 years in the Army. In summary here are the extreme basics of what is an effective sniper: · A superior marksman · Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment · The ability to approach the target without being detected · Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire · The ability to engage the target without revealing your position · The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged The first three of these points are possible in the game of paintball, but do not make you a sniper, they just take some training and practice. Let’s look at them one at a time. A superior marksman Basically someone who’s shooting skills are well above that of the average player. No big problem here, skill levels very, some people are just plain better than others. Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment This one is a little tougher. It takes knowledge of what will fool the eye into not seeing what is really there. It’s still doable though. Trained military have an advantage over the someone whose camouflage skills are solely based on hunting. Not because the non-military hunter is any less skilled but because of who the camouflage is intended to fool. But once armed with the knowledge of what the differences are this isn’t even a problem. So, yes this can be effectively applied to paintball. The ability to approach the target without being detected This one is a bigger problem. If just taken as being able to move close enough to a player that is already in place to make your shot undetected is very difficult. Since instinctively humans are hunters, our attention is automatically drawn to movement or things that are out of place. It’s takes someone that is extremely skilled in moving undected to pull this one off. But I have seen it done. I should add to this the ability to setup a position that provides an undetected position from which to shoot that covers an area you expect your opponent to move through. A basic ambush. Both require an undetected shooting position and can be effectively applied to paintball depending on skill level The last three points are where the concept of a sniper in paintball fails. Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire No matter what you do, as long as everyone has the same approximate muzzle velocity, everyone has about the same effective range. Yes, that means Flatlines too. While Flatlines do have the ability, do to an aerodynamic backspin, shoot farther than other barrel systems the paintball still loses velocity at the same rate. What this means is that a paintball from a flatline loses the energy to break its shell at the same rate as one fired from a conventional barrel. The advantage of the flatline is initial flat trajectory that paintball has, which allows someone to fire under foliage that would otherwise break the ball. (The first failed point in being an effective sniper) The ability to engage the target without revealing your position Since the effective range is around 20-25m means that when you fire you have effectively revealed your general position. What I mean is this. Your shooting from such a close range that either the pop of your ball leaving the barrel or the sound of your bolt cycling (or both) will give your general position away to anyone with average hearing as far away as 40m. Unless you are only engaging 1 or 2 people or are extremely lucking you yourself can now be effectively counted as a mission kill. (The second failed point in being an effective sniper) The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged What this means is the ability move to a new shooting position after having engaged a target without being detected and counter-engaged your self. Since it’s been demonstrated that you can’t effectively engage a target without revealing your initial shooting position and exposing yourself to effective counter fire this one automatically fails. (The third failed point in being an effective sniper) Now just because you can’t effectively apply all of the above tactics of what makes an effective sniper doesn’t mean that the first 3 listed can’t be applied to paintball. Do they make you a sniper? No. But they do give you the ability to setup an effective close ambush. Just a word of advice here, bring along several friends and you might even be effective at it. |
Posted By: Shadowminion
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 9:02am
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Way to go SR_Crewchief , good to see you again , how come nobody wants to be a Sharpshooter ?, LOL, thats possible in paintball ! (and as close to sniping as anybody will ever get in this game ) ------------- SL68-II , micro honed and polished .688" bore . Tuff Enuf . Widowmaker , under construction |
Posted By: Amy's Angel
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 2:13pm
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Now listen up ladies,
I'm gonna say this once and for all. Sniping IS possible. Like I said in my other post, Armotech makes a paintball rifle perfectly suited for that job. And, no, it is not hard to look through a scope with your goggles on. Ive tried it. It is as easy as looking down a scope without the blimey goggles on. And, jus to tell you... it is not required to have a silenced rifle to pull off this trick. Jus get a perforated barrel... cuts the chatter down about 75 %. Alright, Peace out and rock on. Im outta here... ------------- NOW REMEMBER KIDS... FLIES SPREAD DISEASE... SO KEEP YOURS CLOSED !!! |
Posted By: noahsoccer3
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 5:04pm
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the best sniping guns is a a5 with flatline one thing you have to worry about is that ur velocity is too high aroung 270 will work.you wamt a comp air system response double trigger shroud i like scope so i can see the people before the can see me.best to shoot compressed air shoots alot harder.but the only way to snipe is in woods ball or a sniping screnario. |
Posted By: noahsoccer3
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 5:04pm
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Posted By: DMN 0166
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 5:08pm
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you do that, go have fun with your "scope", "be the bush." your playing paintball, your not in the freakin army. and just because a gun looks real (armotech) doesnt mean its a better "sniper gun". a cocker, or other high end gun is much more accurate, and quiet.
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Posted By: DMN 0166
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 5:10pm
that makes no sense at all. no matter what propells your paintball, its not going to shoot any harder than any other gun shooting the same fps. |
Posted By: Ariakon_Eagle
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 6:00pm
Ah...He'll learn. My friends are the same way. There the kind of people that judge a player by his stuff. And they think that hp make hit a lot harder. It wont change unless you raise the FPS. He'll learn eventually. ------------- You call the Eagle, Eagle does the rest. |
Posted By: Amy's Angel
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 6:49pm
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DMN 0166,
I never said I was in the army. I am just saying that sniping is possible. You dont have to be a blimey bush or anything. Just a good shot. Now you ladies have a good day. I am outta here. ------------- NOW REMEMBER KIDS... FLIES SPREAD DISEASE... SO KEEP YOURS CLOSED !!! |
Posted By: eagle_eye
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 6:58pm
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Besides in the Millitary snypers are wussys. ------------- watch your back |
Posted By: Unconditional
Date Posted: 03 October 2004 at 9:43pm
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Sniping in paintball..wow......if you
want to talk about paintball, play airball......not go into the woods,
hide in a bush and wait..thats hunting, not paintball
------------- Dude...I own you. Black to pewter Nasty impulse AI trigger frame CP Reg. Crossfire 47/3000 SS freak SP Mini LPR with tape worm Vision (duh) CCM low rise Egg II Z boarded Blue Profiler |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 04 October 2004 at 6:08am
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I'm absolutely amazed at how many of you will keep making the same unsupport statements. This tells me a few things:
You refuse to read anything that is more that a few short sentences. You'd rather post a personal opinion that can't or won't support. or You see a thread topic and arbatrarily post a response without reading anything. Some of the rest of you actually do read a thread an them deside whether or not your going to enter the discussion. Which of the above to you thing adds more value to this or anyother forum? |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 04 October 2004 at 6:12am
Obviously someone who hasn't a clue what he's talking about. If you think this makes you look 'cool', it doesn't. |
Posted By: Dead Man Walkin
Date Posted: 04 October 2004 at 2:04pm
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Not to slam you or anything but techniqally you can too "snipe" in paintball it's just in the way you do it. My father "snipes" a lot when we play. In paintball sniping is more or less hiding and waiting untill a player gets the right amount of distance from in and then shooting him all without him and his team seeing you. You are a ghost or should be. Anyway a pro carbine in my opinion is a fine gun for sniping because it is very accurate. oh and by the way not to slam you again but brass eagle sucks |
Posted By: Robert_Hawker
Date Posted: 04 October 2004 at 10:05pm
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I have said this before but i seams i have to say it again i have a buddy who is a marine core sniper and he uses like 50 balls a day where as i use just under 2000 and he says that there is no sniping in paintball. now whos opinion should we trust a trained professional or a 14 year old twit with a computer?? ------------- Tipp A-5 Opsgear Saw Shroud Opsgear G36 Folding Stock 16" j&j |
Posted By: Amy's Angel
Date Posted: 05 October 2004 at 5:48am
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See ladies,
Sniping IS possible. Thank you, and have a berry mice day. I am outta here. ------------- NOW REMEMBER KIDS... FLIES SPREAD DISEASE... SO KEEP YOURS CLOSED !!! |
Posted By: Amy's Angel
Date Posted: 05 October 2004 at 5:51am
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SR_Crewchief wrote: I'm absolutely amazed at how many of you will keep making the same unsupport statements. This tells me a few things: You refuse to read anything that is more that a few short sentences. You'd rather post a personal opinion that can't or won't support. or You see a thread topic and arbatrarily post a response without reading anything. Some of the rest of you actually do read a thread an them deside whether or not your going to enter the discussion. Which of the above to you thing adds more value to this or anyother forum? This junkie has TOO much time on his hands... Honestly... you dont come into a heated discussion where everything is coherent and then blurt THAT OF ALL THINGS out... Get a life pal... ------------- NOW REMEMBER KIDS... FLIES SPREAD DISEASE... SO KEEP YOURS CLOSED !!! |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 05 October 2004 at 9:32pm
Son, I'm going to show a lot more restraint with you than I normally would. In the future, before you go and spout drivel like this again you should really try to learn what your talking about. More importantly you should actually have something intellegent to say. As yet you have not. Try to do a little research. Maybe even read this topic. Better yet, try searching this forum with the key word "sniper". You'll find that this subject pops up on a fairly regular basis. You'll also find that a great majority of the posts are nothing more that somebody taking a position based on personal opinion. Then your find that someone like myself will come along and try to educate about the application of tactics from long personal experience, real world experience. Junkie?? Sorry, the strongest thing I touch is my beer. Try again. Heated discussion? I don't see it in this thread. Coherent? With the lack of supportable substantiated statements that form the majoraty of this thread, NOT!! Get a life?? Son I got boots older that your acting. Now if you really what to particapate in an intellegent discussion, please do, it's healthy for this forum and the education of the membership. If you just want to drop your little one liners, go someplace else. To the rest of you that just finished reading this rant, I appologize that you had to see that. But a personal attack such as his required this form of response. That's all I'm planning of saying on this matter. |
Posted By: Amy's Angel
Date Posted: 06 October 2004 at 5:55am
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Yes ma'am.
Will do. Now have a rotten day. I am outta here. Peace. ------------- NOW REMEMBER KIDS... FLIES SPREAD DISEASE... SO KEEP YOURS CLOSED !!! |
Posted By: Phear_Mike
Date Posted: 06 October 2004 at 8:21am
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Now I could care less about this "sniping" topic. Whether you call it shooting at a designated distance or sniping. Though according to you and the statement that people can hearthe gun, Crewchief youve always known where the ball came from. I dont know but http://www.xpaintball.com - www.xpaintball.com believe there is snipin in paintball. http://store.yahoo.com/xtremepaintball/tistli.html - http://store.yahoo.com/xtremepaintball/tistli.html ------------- 
I play Americas Army Hooah!! |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 06 October 2004 at 10:35pm
So what your point? As far as your edited in links go, they're trying to sell you something nothing more. On the previous page I outlined the basic, and only the basic, tactics that differentiate a military tactical sniper from the average soldier. If someone wishes to label themself a sniper to diffentiate themself from the average player, they should know what defines a sniper. They should also be prepared to back it with something other than personal opinion. My statements come from years of tactical experience and training. You'll note that I don't say that you can't try to apply the tactics of a sniper to paintball, just that you won't be effective and why. Most people think that the art of consealment and accurate shooting are what make a sniper, nothing could be further from the truth. That is nothing more than basic training for any soldier. And if you do a little searching in this forum you'll find several places where I tell you what branch of the Army I retired from. My handle is a clue. 
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Posted By: Robert_Hawker
Date Posted: 06 October 2004 at 11:13pm
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^^ I like you all ready. most people on the forum have no experiance at all.. neither do i but i dont go off on people with diffrent opinions than my self. i do know what it is to be a sniper.. well sort of... but o well i am a good shot and i have a flatline dose that make me a sniper, Hell no!! ------------- Tipp A-5 Opsgear Saw Shroud Opsgear G36 Folding Stock 16" j&j |
Posted By: keithx
Date Posted: 07 October 2004 at 12:18am
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SR_Crewchief schooled everyone on this thread... 100 yds is for "sighting in your gun", i don't think even with a flatline my A-5 has an effective range of 300ft which isn't nearly sniper worthy... if you could hit me from 300 yds away while compensating for wind velocity and drop while hiding in a tree with a model 98 custom chrono'd at 280fps... you could be king paintball sniper... sniping in paintball is another word for "too cowardly to actually play so i am going to UBER OUT MY GUN and hide somewhere"... last time i was out we played against this kid who showed up with a ghillie suit and some ridiculous barrel... my team was 90% ex/current military we made it a point to take this kid out every game... we barrel tagged him like twice... he didn't even hear or see us coming in standard issue woodland camo BDUs... we got him every game... and every time he was somewhere well out of range hiding... so when he had to shoot it was close range anyway... ------------- I prefer .223 over .68 --------------------- A-5 R/T Flatline w/ F/X SD shroud F/X Sniper stock Intruder Assault Foregrip SpecterGear CQB 3pt Sling Crossfire 68/4500 (coming soon) |
Posted By: Phear_Mike
Date Posted: 07 October 2004 at 2:08am
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Well what crawled up your.... No wait I'll be nice. I personally have played paintball 2 months, and Im more of a get in close range and light em' up. Anyways If people want to think they are sniping whats the problem. Some of you guys take this way to serious. I know teams that have skilled marksman and can take you out at the maximum range of their guns. When other guys cant but can light you up close. If the M4M had an effective distance of a M82. Would you still consider the M82 a sniper. No you would consider it a slow piece of junk. Anyways you cant compare paintball to real guns and how the military operates. Its not the same thing no matter how bad your military buddies want to flashback. No offence I have great respect for our soldiers, but your statements I dont see the point in comparing paintball to what you marine buddy went thru. You should scale it down. A 200 foot shot is from my understanding a long shot even for a flatline, that is considered a paintball advanced marksman or sniper IMO. Did you catch that IMO? You got one i got one. You cannot say well that wasnt a over a mile shot, thats not sniping. I have seen some people guard a flag from 150 feet away and win the game laying in a bush, just pop, and players go out. Now you still didnt answer my question of knowing where you get shot from all the time 100%. -------------
I play Americas Army Hooah!! |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 07 October 2004 at 7:08am
Mike, Iit appears that this was addressed to me. Just a side note for the future, if you wish to address a question to someone and your not going to quote thier post please use a simple salutation. The specific range isn't what's at issue. Miss labeling tactics is. It appears that you at least read part of my lesson post but didn't full grasp certain parts of it. For a sniper, any sniper, to be effective they must be able to effectively engage targets from outside effective return fire. By effective I mean at a minimum hit the target 4 out of 5 times. Since all paintball guns for all practical purposes use the same ammunition and have the same muzzle velocity restriction this can't be done. There are a couple of reasons for sniper engaging from outside effective return fire range. One is that it is extremely demoralizing to be taking casualties without being able to do anything about it. The second is that it affords the sniper the time to take proper shots without the stress of being under direct fire. The six basic tactics that I outlined when implemented together are mutually supporting in allowing the sniper to be effective in his mission. As to being able to know were a shot came from 100% of the time, never going to happen. And I didn't say that it would. But I did leave somethings out also. Part of what I left out is the tactics and battle drills of the players that have come under fire. Before going on I need to reestablish something first, the playing environment. We're talking about recreational woods play. Be it a walkon, private, scenario, or big game that primary terrain being discussed is woods with underbrush. When combined with the limited range and inherent in-ability of the paintballs to penetrate without breaking, we are talking about close quarters battle. If one side is lucky a close ambush. And for the purposes of this sniper dicussion it has to be the close ambush specificly. If the team taking fire has any idea what thier doing, the battle drill response to a close ambush is to attack though it. In the close quarters environment the lone sniper hasn't got a chance, he'll be quickly overwelmed. By the same token, if the ambush was laid by a team that had a little time to prepare the reacting team hasn't got a chance. In a basic L shape ambush the group that forms the base of fire will be the focus of the counter attack. The leg of the ambush will hold fire until the target group has started the counter attack and has entered the crossfire/killzone. And yes I'm taking military tactics. That's because when you boil it down paintball, not matter what flavor you play, is small unit force on force combat. If you think it is anything else either you don't yet have the knowledge and/or experience to recignize it as such, or your deluding yourself. Yes, paintball is a game, but you'll notice that the team that are regularly effective use the aplicable military tactics to succeed. |
Posted By: Phear_Mike
Date Posted: 07 October 2004 at 8:51am
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Crew...Is it not true that some paintball guns shoot further and more accurate than others. Does this not mean that you would be at that demoralizing range? The sniper will not be overwhelmed, if he's concealed and can hit his target. This is why you dont have a sniper by hisself also. You have people strategically placed so if they run up on the sniper. They will be took down easily, this is a defense strategy. For assualt they move in range behind your rushers to take down enemies and keep them down so your team can move up. Yes being a lone sniper is the dumbest thing you can do but, if you have a team that will cover you its possible. Now these differences in our oppinions may come from diffferent types of field and experiences. I dont play at a "field", My friend has 7 acres of woods behind his house. We have built bunkers, foxholes, trenches, and forts. This "field" has been under developement for 6 years. We use just about all of it we can. We dont play with the 3 break rule or whatever. We use autocockers and angels on auto except for me i get a tippmann with an R/T and flatline (my friends back-up). Cant wait to get my A-5. Now I dont know how a regulation field is but i imagine it being smaller, havent been to one. There is hills with plenty of brush on them to conceal you and yes you can pull off some long downhill shots. We will probably start playing reg. fields since were thinking about starting a team to fight against other teams. Maybe our long shots will not be a factor in the reg. fields, though on our field they can be come a factor. E.G. My friend took his angel and wiped out the squad that came by the hills. 5 shots 5kills at around a 130-140ft, good game (mainly because i didnt get shot). Though I could probably ask my friends and find out if the longer shots would factor in at our local fields. Yes my friend has a chronograph so were shooting 270-290. -------------
I play Americas Army Hooah!! |
Posted By: PaintballkidEPS
Date Posted: 07 October 2004 at 2:15pm
| i have a Tippmann A-5 w/ 3 position stock, response trigger, intruder foregrip, and 14" J&J ceramic barrel and i use it for sniping but the response trigger is good if i wanna get up close and personal |
Posted By: Amy's Angel
Date Posted: 07 October 2004 at 6:29pm
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ALRIGHT LISTEN UP LADIES,
This aint no ice cream social. This is a sport. Call it what you want. Sniping, sharpshooting, a pain in the ass. I couldn't really care any less. Bonno Appetitto. -ODST ------------- NOW REMEMBER KIDS... FLIES SPREAD DISEASE... SO KEEP YOURS CLOSED !!! |
Posted By: Gumbe02
Date Posted: 07 October 2004 at 6:33pm
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amy angle laying out the law ------------- Mag shooter |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 07 October 2004 at 10:57pm
Mike, for all practical purposes all paintball guns have the same effective range. Be it an Angel, Phantom, Cocker, Mag, or A5 with Flatline. The reason is balistics. All paintballs are basicly the same weight, shape, diameter. All guns have the same muzzle velocity restriction. Since the balls fly through the same air, they decelerate at the same rate as well. What this means is that with these factors all being the same the distance traveled will also be the same. The only difference is with the Flatline. While the back spin does indeed impart an aerodynamic lift which does give it a greater distance traveled, the ball still looses the energy required to break at the same rate as any other ball. While out of the box some guns are more consistantly accurate it doesn't stay that way. With a little work any gun can be accurized to about the same level. After that it's up to the shooter to have the skills to use it, nothing more. Remember, effective means hitting your target 4 out of 5 times. With a paintball gun this is roughly at 30-40 yards against a man sized stationary target. A little bit worse that a revolutionary musket. Demoralizing to be hit from this range, no. If the shooter can hit you, you can hit him. Defense from a fixed position. Move your better shots around to cover kill zones. Cover, concealment, controled fire, cross fire kill zones, basic unit tactic, nothing more. Better applied as a haisty ambush. Set a base of fire to draw the opposition into the kill zone form with your flank element. Again, basic small unit tactic not sniper tactic. Having one or more persons laying down suppressive fire while you have a team assault. This is a basic tactic for attacking a fixed position. Best applied in what is called a bounding overwatch. Your troops are in paired teams. One member of the team advances 10-15 yards while the other is laying suppressive fire. Once the advanced member is in position he lays the fire while his teammate advance in front of him. Repeat. Clasic text book tactic, for basic infantry not snipers. I want to make something clear. This is not opinion. It is combat proven tactics. It doesn't matter what field you play on. Recignize, understand, learn, and execute basic small unit tactics your team will be effective and successful. |
Posted By: Phear_Mike
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 1:34am
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Chief have you actually tried this out. To see if the flatline will not extend your range. Ive seen it done, we tested this theory out. Cause I thought the same way. If you think that the flatline outshoots most barrels by 50 or more feet. For the ball to stay up that long even with backspin past other barrels its still moving on enought to break at 10-25ft. further than other guns. My friends tippy will outshoot his angel by 25 foot busting balls his angel cant hit it. You go any further and the tippy quits busting. From the way you talk 25ft can make a difference in this game. So you can be at a demoralizing range, and you can be completely concealed. Don't say well the flatline is too loud and they will hear. I assuming with your back-ground in the military youve heard a m82 shot. I personally havent but I know its louder than crap. It may not be the sniping your used to. The shots may not be as long, and harder to keep hidden. Think about the revolutionary war, America appointed snipers, they gave them the same muskets as everybody else with a scope. Now because you slap a scope on a gun doesnt make it fire further. So they really couldnt be out of range of return fire. HMMM, guess what these were your first snipers. They hardly used any concealment or camo, and deffinately not a ghuille suit. Most of them were hunters and farm boys that could shoot at longer ranges than their buddies. Now because you cant hit 4 out 5 at a certain range doesnt mean the guy next to you cant. Any how what makes you so mad when people say they are going to snipe. Is that a commandment of yours, Thou shalt not say snipe when referring to paintball. Have a nice day. -------------
I play Americas Army Hooah!! |
Posted By: 636andy636
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 1:52am
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http://www.webdogradio.us/video/tipclip/s2/2WDR27.wmv - http://www.webdogradio.us/video/tipclip/s2/2WDR27.wmv there. no such things as snipers in paintball! |
Posted By: keithx
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 2:34am
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in response to that video: i've never seen vapor trails coming off of my .308... i guess its possible since it supersonic.... (most rifle ammunition is... speed of sound sea level is about 1100ft/s.... .308=2700 ft/s, .50BMG is like 2900 ft/s).... and i've never heard of a sniper using vapor trails to track their bullets path.... that sounds kind of far fetched... aside from that... he basically sums up what we've been saying here.... being stealthy and/or hiding in the back of the field doesn't make you a sniper when you are still only making shots around 100 ft... ------------- I prefer .223 over .68 --------------------- A-5 R/T Flatline w/ F/X SD shroud F/X Sniper stock Intruder Assault Foregrip SpecterGear CQB 3pt Sling Crossfire 68/4500 (coming soon) |
Posted By: WDR-Tyger
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 9:30am
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http://science.howstuffworks.com/sniper2.htm - http://science.howstuffworks.com/sniper2.htm My source for the vapor trails comment., and I quote : Once the shot is taken, the spotter watches the shot to help the sniper readjust his aim or his position in the unlikely event that he misses his target. The way that the spotter watches the shot is fascinating. High velocity, long-range rounds like the kind used in a sniper rifle actually leave a vapor trail as they fly through the air. The spotter can track the shot by watching for that vapor trail. Army Ranger Sniper says, "It just looks like mixed up air. You can see through it, but you see the distortion." -Tyger ------------- Yeah, "that" Tyger. |
Posted By: Amy's Angel
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 2:50pm
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Damn right I am layin down the law...
Now stop the pillow talk... quit your yammerin and listen up. SNIPING IS POSSIBLE. There... done and done. Peace out. -ODST ------------- NOW REMEMBER KIDS... FLIES SPREAD DISEASE... SO KEEP YOURS CLOSED !!! |
Posted By: keithx
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 3:21pm
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thanks tyger... i've never heard that before... ------------- I prefer .223 over .68 --------------------- A-5 R/T Flatline w/ F/X SD shroud F/X Sniper stock Intruder Assault Foregrip SpecterGear CQB 3pt Sling Crossfire 68/4500 (coming soon) |
Posted By: lionheart
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 4:21pm
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sniping not possible tell that too me on the field and be proved wrong. equipment WS-66 w/ reddot + barrel exs *cough* silencer *cough* tenshion zeus g2 its got a barrel "exstenshion" too proteus 2 spectra mask full ghili diggis LBV 2 MRE's liter of h20 full tool kit 200 paintballs talkie and throat mic cant forget the 12 grams and 9 oz glow sticks and other esentials for night work my spotter ghili binocs a pro carbine barrel "exstenshion" talkie and throat mic and about 400 paint some paint grenades trip wire and claymor's MRE's water rough guestimate of his gear. that equipment will last us for about 12 hours play. Hopefully we will get up to skirmish USA for D Day this year. sniping tip of the day - look for movement, then look for shape, identify the target, breath in, breath out and pull the trigger dont jerk it , tagged another one. ------------- Russian Legion Intimidator reloader B crossfire 68/4500 HK tech headband VFProfiler Russian LEgion Jersey Empire Inverts Empire Pads Empire cleats too much $$$ When a noob thinks your a pro |
Posted By: keithx
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 7:22pm
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there are no such things as silencers... ------------- I prefer .223 over .68 --------------------- A-5 R/T Flatline w/ F/X SD shroud F/X Sniper stock Intruder Assault Foregrip SpecterGear CQB 3pt Sling Crossfire 68/4500 (coming soon) |
Posted By: Minotaur
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 10:36pm
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Just because a marker is made up to look like a sniper rifle doesn’t mean that it cant do anymore then a marker that can shoot 20bps and looks like a assault rifle. ------------- 
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Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 11:29pm
Didn't have too. I know the guy who did the testing that provided the data. For that matter, so do several others around this forum. That testing was done as part of the fielding of the flatline and caused Tippmann to pull the ad campaign that claimed that velocity dropped at a lower rate when using one.
Already covered the range questions several times in this thread. All paintballs lose energy at the same rate. It's called ballistics. Please, unless you can provided imperical data, let's move on. For incoming direct fire to be demoralizing, there must be effectively nothing that the troops can do about it. At the ranges that paintball is played at that isn't possible.
First, yes the flatline is loud and will give your position away, if there is no other sound to cover it. First, the M82 Berret is not the standard rifle used by our military snipers. It's role is extreme range shooting. Second, no I haven't heard one fired. Third, it uses the same round as the M2 Heavy Machine Gun which I have fired. Yes it is very loud. The last time I worked with snipers, they were using heavily customized M14's that fired .308 rounds. As I understand it, the current standard sniper rifle is still using the .308 but has gone back to basicly being a customized Winchester or Remington bolt action. The point being that the rifle being used has a segnificantly greater range by several factors than the standard issue weapon in the hands of the enemy.
You need to go back and recheck your data. Revolutionary snipers usually did have the kind of back ground that you've noted. Were you deviate is thier weapon. First, IIRC there weren't any scoped weapons until the American Civil War. Second, the weapon they did use was a rifle not a musket, usually thier own. An iron sighted long rifle in the hands of an expert greatly out ranges any musket.
Not sure what your point is here.
What makes you thing that I'm mad? I'm an NCO. What that means is that it's my job to teach and lead. When I see that someone doesn't understand the tactics associated with a skill set/job title that they try to claim it's by bound duty to correct them. Sometimes I'm rather blunt about, and that sometimes can be mistaked for anger. |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 08 October 2004 at 11:36pm
What to say too this? If you want a leason on the field, just show up at a game attended by OMHW and introduce yourself. |
Posted By: keithx
Date Posted: 09 October 2004 at 12:02am
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SR_Crewchief is right... the Barrett M82 (XM107) is way too big and bulky to be a true sniper rifle... it prohibits the easy movement and concealment of a sniper team... the military doesn't have match grade .50BMG which cuts down its range... it is semi automatic which ruins the shot to shot consistency... it's not a true sniper rifle but its range (1500-2000m) makes it a contender... it has its purposes... a .50BMG in semi auto will make light work out of an APC, any other enemy vehicle, or stronghold... the Barrett M95 is actually a much better choice, bolt action, cryogenically treated barrel, bullpup design, 5-rd box magazine (as opposed to the 10)... but for some reason the military went with semi auto... Currently the Springfield M1A can be customized for sniper applications... the M24 sniper system used by rangers/etc, is simply a Remington 700 (the industry standard bolt action .308) with a RIDICULOUS bull barrel... the barrel is like an 1.5" diameter... the rifle weighs like 11 pounds unloaded with the bipod and scope... my gunsmith just built one... carlos hathcock (aka white feather) one of the most famous usmc snipers from vietnam used a .308 winchester hunting rifle (as did most of the early snipers)... he had something like 93 confirmed kills including a 2500 yard shot... there is a book written about him... ------------- I prefer .223 over .68 --------------------- A-5 R/T Flatline w/ F/X SD shroud F/X Sniper stock Intruder Assault Foregrip SpecterGear CQB 3pt Sling Crossfire 68/4500 (coming soon) |
Posted By: aphasia223
Date Posted: 20 October 2004 at 11:16pm
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(I apoligize for the changing fonts. This was a cut and paste job.)
The fundamental problem in the sniping debate is that people are basing their arguments on different definitions of the term. Many
people have the image of a high-powered rifle with a range of hundreds
of yards in mind when they dismiss the idea of sniping in paintball. For example: vftactical2: “there is no sniping sniping
requires a high powered silenced rifle were shootin paintball gun a
that only shoot about 150 yards thats not that far so there is no sniping.” And Robert_Hawker “there is no such thing as sniping however you can be a good shot thus i have a designated sharp shooter on my teem for when you have to shoot from a distance and you dont want to give away your position. but if you call anything less that 150 yards sniping you need a new dictionary.” However, the above are inappropriate definitions of sniping as it applies to paintball. Paintball (particularly woodsball) is a mere facsimile of real life military combat. Everything has been scaled down and redefined. There
are many military tactics that are applicable to woodsball (suppressive
fire, flanking, etc.), but there are also many that are not. For instance a bush would never provide effective cover (only concealment) in real life. But we accept this as an approximation of reality. So too must sniping be considered merely an approximation of the real thing. True story: Location— To argue that the above case was sharpshooting and not sniping is a matter of semantics and therefore meaningless. Again, the definition is what’s important, not the term. SR_Crewchief
provides the most comprehensive definition (and argument against)
sniping, but I don’t know if the literal interpretation is fair. Just as paintball in general is a matter of scale, so is sniping in paintball. It is not the equipment nor the distance, per se, that makes a sniper, but the approach. If
one player utilizes no camouflage, but instead runs from cover point to
cover point—taking advantage of speed, suppression and volume whereas
another player utilizes stealth, camouflage and possibly distance . . .
are both players the same type of “soldier”? What term would differentiate the second from the first? “Scout” may work, but I think “sniper” is just as valid. No,
the sniper will not necessarily always take out players from vast
distances—but this is paintball and as I’ve already mentioned,
paintball is a facsimile of the real thing. You can’t take someone out at 500 feet, yet you can hide behind a bush—both are equally absurd approximations of reality. Since SR_Crewchief provides the most effective argument against sniping in paintball, I’d like to address some of his points: SR_Crewchief “In summary here are the extreme basics of what is an effective sniper: He capitulates that the first three are possible in paintball (and my above story is one example). I would argue that those first criteria—marksmanship, camouflage, evade detection—are enough for one to be considered a paintball sniper. I would say the last two (engage target without detection and get away without detection) are harder but possible (again, see above story). Then there is the issue of effective range which comes with further quotations: SR_Crewchief “No matter what you do, as long as everyone has the same approximate muzzle velocity, everyone has about the same effective range.” “For a sniper, any sniper, to be effective they must be able to effectively engage targets from outside effective return fire.” “The point being that the rifle being used has a segnificantly greater range by several factors than the standard issue weapon in the hands of the enemy.” Paintball guns do not all have the same range. Ever shoot a splatmaster? Excluding the flatline, which is a special case, effective range is based on velocity AND spin. A cheaper gun or cheaper barrel is going to send that ball in all kinds of crazy directions well before a higher quality piece of hardware. The difference in effective range between such guns may only be a matter of feet or tens of feet, but on the scale of a paintball field a few feet make all the difference. It may seem inconsequential, but a few feet in woodsball are worth a few hundred yards in the real world. If I’m standing in an open field holding a gun with an effective range of exactly 100 feet across from a guy with an effective range of 90 feet and we’re 100 feet apart I am out of his range and he is in mine regardless of whether the difference is 10 feet or a thousand. I wouldn’t call this situation sniping, but the point is paintball guns differ in range. And these seemingly small differences are actually significant especially considering that markers can actually differ by 30 or more feet. There does come a point at which the paintballs won’t break. Flatline most likely enters this range. But let’s consider the distances. Let’s say a maker with a good barrel can shoot straight for 150 feet (or whatever, I’m just going to use 150 as my benchmark). The flatline is supposed to be able to add an extra 80. But perhaps at 230 (150 + 80) feet the balls don’t break. Does that nullify the effects of the flatline? Perhaps it’s ineffective at +80 feet, but what about at all those intermediate distances beyond the standard custom barrel? What about at +40 feet? If the paintballs can break at 190 feet (150 + 40 which is likely), then the flatline has an effective range 40 feet greater than the competitor. 40 feet! That’s VERY significant. Or even if the effective break distance is only 25 feet greater (which is almost certainly an underestimation) it is still quite a significant range. Some would say however that although the flatline will travel that far, it’s inaccurate at such a distance. Although that is debatable, it still doesn’t matter. If only 1 out of 4 of your shots will hit at this distance, you have a 25% chance of a hit. That is a 25% chance against your opponents 0% chance due to you being outside their ball’s travel distance (without them having to aim to the sky and mortar their paintballs onto the twigs above your head). So while I agree the flatline may not be effective at its MAXIMUM range, but there is a whole 80 feet of play to work with—that’s a pretty comfortable margin if you ask me. But, enough of the flatline. The point is sniping is a tactic that emphasizes stealth, camouflage and marksmanship over the more common runnin’ and gunnin’ Halo style gameplay. Diversity and coordination is what makes a team strong. Each style of game play has its weakness. A team that utilizes a range of tactics, in other words a team that is diverse will have a distinct advantage over an otherwise equally skilled team employing the standard, predictable maneuvers. Call it what you want, but sniping can be done in paintball. |
Posted By: Model98Sniper1
Date Posted: 21 October 2004 at 10:10am
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i can tell you right now that there is sniping *my specs below* 4 of the guys that play in my town including me have sniper guns custom fitted so all they can do is snipe and shoot long range very acuate it how we play woods ball no you dont sit in one spot you move frequently you just arent seen ------------- Once you can except the fact that your already dead. You can function as a solder. Lt. Spears June 12 1944 |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 21 October 2004 at 10:20pm
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aphasia223, welcome too the forum. And too the ever present discussion.
The central issue too this long standing "disagreement" has to do with some players who wish to given themselves a title that sets them above and apart from other players. In almost all cases without truely knowing what that title actually means. Not whether or not situations arise in a game were you can take a carefully aimed shot or three. You say that the first three points qualify as sniping? Not really, they do destiquish experience players thou, nothing more. Your question about whether I've shot a Splatmaster, the answer is yes. If two guns fire the same ball at the same velocity on the same initial trajectory, they will travel the same distance. It's basic ballistics. Spin in your context has nothing to do with range, but is does infuence accuracy. In your example, the person whose shots are consistantly dropping at 90ft is firing at a lower muzzle velocity than the one 100ft. Accuracy is a bigger factor in the game then ballistic range. If you take the players shooting technique out of the equation then there are only three factors that impact, 1)the paintball 2)consistancy of delivered pressure to the chamber 3)friction coeficient of the barrel. Axial spin has neglegable effect. The paintball we can do very little about from ball to ball. Consistancy of delivered pressure is best handled by using N2 or Compressed Air. A highly polished barrel bore handles the last. What happens is that the ball will wabble or bounce as it travels down the barrel. By having as consistant as possible delivered air pressure to the chamber and reducing the friction of the bore surface the amount of wabble is reduced improving overall accuracy. Remeber, we are using a round plyable ball in a smoothbore. I've addressed the flatlines range earlier in this thread. I'll recap. By imparting a backspin in place of an axial spin it provides aerodynamic lift which provides the increased ballistic range. But the ball still looses velosity at the same rate as any other ball. Which means that balls fired from a flatline will stop breaking on the same surface at the same range as a ball fired from a traditional barrel, provided that they both left the barrel at the same muzzle velosity. The major drawback to the flatline is that balls fire from one are more prone to infuance by the wind. Good movement technique, use of cover and consealment, and marksmanship are the hallmarks of experienced players nothing more. |
Posted By: SR_Crewchief
Date Posted: 21 October 2004 at 10:27pm
Here is an old axiom around here that you need to learn, "the gun does not make the player". I have two guns that are as heavily modified or more than yours and they don't make me a sniper. They are merely tools that give me a better than average chance to hit what I aim at. Remember, this is a game of tactics not tools. |
Posted By: Model98Sniper1
Date Posted: 22 October 2004 at 8:40am
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i know it tactics am on of the Lt.'s on my team i take people with me and i get orders from the people who are better than me. I will prefure to shoot a longer distance than in close range,and i know its the player not the gun but the gun is merely a tool but unless it is to your specifications and your desires than you wont respect it as much ------------- Once you can except the fact that your already dead. You can function as a solder. Lt. Spears June 12 1944 |
Posted By: m98bigshot
Date Posted: 23 October 2004 at 8:59am
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Wow...you really have no idea what you're talking about do you... You can't snipe, you'll never be able to snipe, until they find another propellant besides compressed gasses. Obviously you're a complete newbie if you insist that sniping is possible in paintball. Armortech makes Mil-Sim guns NOT "SNIPER RIFLES". Please get your facts straight before you start to argue your point. And try playing paintball more, so you actually have a clue what you're talking about. And please, stop calling everyone "ladies", unless they are a female. -------------  |
Posted By: bull014
Date Posted: 11 November 2004 at 11:19pm
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Sr Crewchief first of all respect, but I disagree with you in some points.
1.The term paintball sniper is often claimed by those who do not know really what they are talking about or doing. 2.The standard military/law enforcement ideas can not be transfered to paintball and mean the same thing (PS I'am L.E. with S.O.D experience) Now traveling to scenarios and some big games there are people who are paintball snipers. I have seen these people(though they are few) who can get behind enimey lines, call recon (a primary role for a L.E. sniper), and then take out a selected target (a general). Yes most of the time they will be found, but they got into areas denied to normal "troops". They used camo/concealment effectively, they moved with out being found and did the damage. When playing the senarios/big games there is all a little role playing by everyone, so why not a sniper. Granted there are many who use the term to often and in a normal sunday woods game at the local field there is no sniper. The next thing is to some people who posted saying woods ball is not paintball. Sorry guys it started in the woods and is stilled played there. Why try to spilt players when there is enough prople out there trying to ban paintball? because you ride a street bike and don't do motorcross are you not a motorcycle rider now? My next bone is guys talking about stuff they don't know. for the junior rambo... 1. yes the military does have 50 cal match ammo for their 50 cal rifles. 2. most modern sniper rifles, except those that are miltary semis (ie SRS) are modified bolt actions that were first used as hunting guns. Hathcocks rifle was a Modified Hunting Rifle, the M-24 is a Modified Hunting Rifle, for the most part all bolt action sniper rifles are Modified Hunting Rifles or Actions 3. Hathcocks longest shot, the 2500 yard, was with a M-2 50 cal using 50 BMG(belted machine gun) so I guess it did have the range. Sr Crewchief, yeah most of the M-14 snipers rifles are going out since there has not been a run of miltary-14's in so long. They were running out of parts. Just some thoughts from someone who has been there. ------------- LOW SPEED - HIGH DRAG 
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Posted By: GhilleMan
Date Posted: 12 November 2004 at 2:56pm
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keithex, long trang du kich (white feather sniper in veitnamise) used a m2 50 cal with a scope mounted on it for the 2500 yard head shot. stop these endless sniper debats everyone, this forum has seen way to many of them
Cheif, your by far the most intelligente person in this thread of non intelligence, ya the isralies actually use the barret more than we do, for exactly what you said, shooting at apc's they call it their "hard target interdiction rifle" The army favors the winchester 308 magnum, while the marines favor the remington 700 magnum. and to everyone real snipers play pump ------------- Smart Parts, Stupid People... Go figure Shoot To Thrill on stockclass, mcarter, and the dreadful pbn Carter Mini Comp, Carter Tricar, PPS Blazer |
Posted By: FoolProofSam
Date Posted: 12 November 2004 at 2:59pm
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The P/C is one of the coolest guns ever. You suck, big time! ------------- HELL IS ICE 
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Posted By: jjclown23
Date Posted: 12 November 2004 at 3:02pm
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THERE IS SNIPING IN PAINTBALL.... ; lol jk jk no such thing u NEWBS! ------------- A-5 Response Trigger DOP Blade Trigger Polished Internals X-Chamber Custom Paint 14" J&J |
Posted By: PistolPete
Date Posted: 13 November 2004 at 10:09am
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First of all the Pro-Carbine is a great gun, sturdy,dependable, and simple to use, everyone should have one as an spare/loner gun. As for the Sniping debate,as Sr_Crewchief said if you want to prove him wrong just show up to any game that OMHW is at. You can hide and wait and you will get one of us with your first or second shot after that any hopes or dreams of being a sniper are over ------------- PistolPete OMHW |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 13 November 2004 at 1:27pm
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Enough of this crap fest. While Sr_Crewchief is doing a wonderful job of shooting to hell all the hollywood glory induced fantasies that are being spewed out by the kiddies in here, I'm not sitting through this anymore. My only regret was that I didn't see this before the stupidity got too thick. Kiss it goodbye. ------------- ? |