TerranDemon wrote: Ok, get this. One of my best friends has a Spyder, well, the cocking knob is missing (its an open blow back, like tippmanns) the trigger handle keeps falling off, the site rail keeps slipping off his site, THE BACK UPPER PORTION BLEW OFF, his spring is now crap, its missing one of the (left) side panel grips... then the fact the bolt keeps uncocking... and yall say the Genisis sucks...

Let's actually think about this:

Cocking Knob- Anoyone can lose one of those.

Frame- (Not trigger handle) Probably lost a screw...big deal, Tippmann guys lose their ball detents all the time.

Sight Rail- The sight rail slips off of the sight? Sure...

Back- No, it didn't. I promise you. It would crack before blow and even then, it would eject the endcap out because the body is made of one solid piece of Aluminum, making it stronger than a 98 Custom.

Springs- Spring wear over time, even on a Tippmann.

Grip Panel- Buy another one...my Carbine has the same problem.

So you lied a few times and stated your friend can't adequitely take care of his gun...big deal.

[FI wrote: ] TerranDemon wrote: Ok, get this. One of my best friends has a Spyder, well, the cocking knob is missing (its an open blow back, like tippmanns) the trigger handle keeps falling off, the site rail keeps slipping off his site, THE BACK UPPER PORTION BLEW OFF, his spring is now crap, its missing one of the (left) side panel grips... then the fact the bolt keeps uncocking... and yall say the Genisis sucks... Let's actually think about this: Cocking Knob- Anoyone can lose one of those. Frame- (Not trigger handle) Probably lost a screw...big deal, Tippmann guys lose their ball detents all the time. Sight Rail- The sight rail slips off of the sight? Sure... Back- No, it didn't. I promise you. It would crack before blow and even then, it would eject the endcap out because the body is made of one solid piece of Aluminum, making it stronger than a 98 Custom. Springs- Spring wear over time, even on a Tippmann. Grip Panel- Buy another one...my Carbine has the same problem. So you lied a few times and stated your friend can't adequitely take care of his gun...big deal.

Umm... pwned.

Roll Tide wrote: [FI wrote: ] TerranDemon wrote: Ok, get this. One of my best friends has a Spyder, well, the cocking knob is missing (its an open blow back, like tippmanns) the trigger handle keeps falling off, the site rail keeps slipping off his site, THE BACK UPPER PORTION BLEW OFF, his spring is now crap, its missing one of the (left) side panel grips... then the fact the bolt keeps uncocking... and yall say the Genisis sucks... Let's actually think about this: Cocking Knob- Anoyone can lose one of those. Frame- (Not trigger handle) Probably lost a screw...big deal, Tippmann guys lose their ball detents all the time. Sight Rail- The sight rail slips off of the sight? Sure... Back- No, it didn't. I promise you. It would crack before blow and even then, it would eject the endcap out because the body is made of one solid piece of Aluminum, making it stronger than a 98 Custom. Springs- Spring wear over time, even on a Tippmann. Grip Panel- Buy another one...my Carbine has the same problem. So you lied a few times and stated your friend can't adequitely take care of his gun...big deal.   Umm... pwned.

completely pwned.

>><< wrote: Just tighten them down really good. thats all you can do.

Use green loctite or teflon tape to hold the screw in if you won't be moving them much. Or, take some duct tape and put it around the screw hole on the outside where the head touchs. This gives some compression and force back so that it won't back out [the screw].

[FI wrote: ] >><< wrote: Just tighten them down really good. thats all you can do. Use green loctite or teflon tape to hold the screw in if you won't be moving them much. Or, take some duct tape and put it around the screw hole on the outside where the head touchs. This gives some compression and force back so that it won't back out [the screw].

I have "special spyders screws i got from my PB store. Their these screws that have some special adhesive that let them stick to the threads. The owner made them and is working on the patent writ noe their pretty cool actually.

Now frogman i have a comment to what you said. You said don't try to defend spyders. I agree that the older model spyders definately weren't the best gun. My rodeo which is an 04 model it has never broken down on me. The only thing my gun has done was leak out air from the air hose goin to the reg but that was my fault after i was changing out my o-rings and didn't tighten the connectors up. Thats it that is all my gun has ever done to me. Which that record is much better than my freinds tippmanns which always get jammed and leak air out of almost every possible hole. This is mostly cause they think since their tippmanns their invincible but that is very untrue. I do think tippmanns are more durable than spyders like strength wise. They are definatly not more durable parts wise.

I'm done now with my mini-rant. So let the flaming fly. 

FROG MAN wrote: Gatyr wrote: Roll Tide wrote: [FI wrote: ] TerranDemon wrote: Ok, get this. One of my best friends has a Spyder, well, the cocking knob is missing (its an open blow back, like tippmanns) the trigger handle keeps falling off, the site rail keeps slipping off his site, THE BACK UPPER PORTION BLEW OFF, his spring is now crap, its missing one of the (left) side panel grips... then the fact the bolt keeps uncocking... and yall say the Genisis sucks... Let's actually think about this: Cocking Knob- Anoyone can lose one of those. Frame- (Not trigger handle) Probably lost a screw...big deal, Tippmann guys lose their ball detents all the time. Sight Rail- The sight rail slips off of the sight? Sure... Back- No, it didn't. I promise you. It would crack before blow and even then, it would eject the endcap out because the body is made of one solid piece of Aluminum, making it stronger than a 98 Custom. Springs- Spring wear over time, even on a Tippmann. Grip Panel- Buy another one...my Carbine has the same problem. So you lied a few times and stated your friend can't adequitely take care of his gun...big deal.   Umm... pwned. completely pwned. howa bout not, face it, brass eagle and spyders suck they are constaly braking down, dont try to defend either, the genisis chops and brakes all the time, and same with spyders, the only gun thats cheap and dosnt suck it the tippmann,

3 to 1 says I owned, so uh...poop on you.

Chopping: No gun inherently chops, it is usually a matter of timing (if applicable) or the speed of the loader vs. firing. To say any gun inherently chops balls is...n00bish at best.

Breaks: Most breaks and leaks come from one thing: n00bish operators. So, if you have experianced these problems, then we can all guess the next statment...let's just say you ain't a "smooth operator" shall we?

Cheap- Cheap is relative. Cheap to me is a $30.00 Stingray (which had less problems than any of my guns, and I own a Carbine, had an A-5 that gave me a world of pain, and a few 98 Customs). Cheap to one of my friends would be a $700.00 Shocker (realize that he drives some souped up STI  with a turbo, etc).

You know it's true, don't try to defend yourself either.

nickman98 wrote: what a surprise gatyr is the only multi-star person to post in here...heh..shows you something of his intelect.

isnt the star machine broken??

Jet87 wrote: Well since F1 thought it was so great to say who I asked me I just thought maybe the other people who disagree with you and think you are an idiot.

Was that an actual sentence? "...and thinkg you are an idiot..." and what else? It's really hard to make any sort of intelligible reply to something that is...not so.

Peace yo! G-Unit!

ENOUGH, I've had this debate countless times, I've owned both, played with both, broke both and fixed both.

Spyder, in general, are higher performace markers out of the box. They typically include things like expansion chamber, regulators, power feed, and higher quality barrels than tippmann stock. They are also cheaper, again, in general. Reliability, however, is not one of thier key attributes.

Tippmanns are like the Kalshkinovs of the paintball world. They're reliable, solid, and dang near indestructable. One particular torture test reminded of the old Govt. issue Colt .45's: They buried the gun in sand, submerged it in water, and then fed it a fresh clip and fired like new.


You spyder WILL break before your tippmann.
You tippmann WILL NOT perform as well as your spyder out of the box.

Terran, you said it yourself...your friend doesn't take care of his marker. 

Regardless of what you may think, neglect does breed breakage. After every day of shooting, my markers come home and get torn down...we are talking everything short of taking the volumizer section and trigger assembly apart.  My markers are pictured in my signature below and as you can see, they have a lot of parts to them.  With a lot of parts come a lot of screws and a lot of pieces.

Every screw on those markers gets checked before I head out.  Screws that I notice are constantly coming loose (I don't have any missing because I find and tighten loose screws by maintaining my markers before they have the opportunity to fall off) I'll add a small drop of non-perm. lock-tite to them.  (note, before you do this make sure the screw and the hole it goes in are clean as dirt and oil will cause the lock-tite not to work.  Also, ONLY use lock-tite in screws that go into metal.  DO NOT use it if the screw is going into plastic.)  Not doing this is what lost causes lost screws not a defect in the marker.  Remember, these markers have a lot of moving parts that send vibrations through the marker.  Vibration loosens screws.  It is just a fact of life. And there is no rhyme or reason to it either.  Each marker is unique in that regard.

By going over my markers after every game, cleaning them of all dirt and paint, and then reassembling them, I will find a small problem before it becomes a big one.  Your friend is only finding the problem when it has gotten so bad that the marker breaks.  Tell him that if he wants to keep it from breaking that he needs to take care of it BEFORE it breaks, not after.

You know, it's funny that when someone doesn't take care of something, and it breaks, it's always the product's fault and never the owner's.  I swear I'm going to form PETM, People for the Ethical Treatment of Markers. Have slogans like "Save the O-rings." and chants of "Only you can lube!".