I dont know.

Most polls have them no more than 2% apart, with Bush having a slight leade.

Who do I want to win? Kerry. Who do I think will win? No idea.

Once again, another poll that has bush in the lead.

*sigh* Kerry is a loser, people can see that, thus bush wins.

Viva La Bush

roadrunner0535 wrote: kerry...but u fergot nader

Nader!

Go Bush!!!!!!!!!!!!       kerrys a loser!!!!!!!!!!

Barretm82 wrote: Clark Kent wrote: ^^^^   Really...   I would like to hear exactly when Kerry said that he is against paintball...   Good lord. lol... Just wandering, I know some in the immediate Bush family have played paintball, has any of the Teresa/Kerry/Heinz family played? Just curious.

Haha, for once I agree with something Clark Kent said.....

.Ryan wrote: Kerry....And I would like to see a link to Kerry's paintball policy...oh and kerry is against making assault rifles readily available to ...... people....he's the devil.

OMG! I KNOW! You're totally right........

Barretm82 wrote: Mehs wrote: You forgot Grimes!  GRIMES '04 roflol, he looks like Mork with a Roman helm. Mork & Mindy, really old show... http://www.tvmegasite.net/prime/shows/mork/ - http://www.tvmegasite.net/prime/shows/mork/ -I did a search as I hardly remember this show from my child hood. MORK FROM ORK Mork was born in a test tube on the planet Ork, where he attended Ork Prep School. A former lobster-tank dinner diver on Ork, Mork later became an intergalatic explorer. He charted sixteen galaxies before Orkan leader Orson assigned him to cover the planet Earth. Mork arrived on Earth complete with a warranty covering skin rust and ankle blowouts. Communicating with Orson via his Scorpio reports, Mork bears the responsibility of informing Orkans of Earthlings' strange traits--most notably, the human demonstration of emotions. He marries an Earthling, Mindy McConnell, after living with her for several years. Astonishing Earthlings he meets through such feats as drinking water with his finger, Mork works as a counselor at the Pine Tree Daycare Center in Boulder, Colorado. Occasionally, he travels through time in size-eight shoes designed specifically for that purpose. Mork lives in Boulder, a suburb in western TV Land, with Mindy and their son, Mearth. Like any proper Orkan, he gave birth to the child himself--or rather to the man: Orkans start out as adults and become younger as they age. It's just another one of those cultural differences that make Orkans--and Mork--so unique.

OMG...........the sad thing is, is that I think I know the show you're talking about, i think I've seen it once or twice....LOL.

Darur wrote: I never said Paintball was high on his agenda, I said he has made it clear he is against it.

Do you have a link, a date, a quote, or anything specific on this?

Multi-Colored J wrote: Kerry. I would take anyone over Bush.

Even Hitler? Nazi.

Barretm82 wrote: Oh, for the record. I really didn't like the Mork & Mindy show, I just recall seeing it as a kid.

Yeah.  Likely story.  Might as well fess us now.

Barretm82 wrote: AFDB Awareness: http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html - Link

BAM!  Link forwarded to all my friends.  Thanks.

:)

AdmiralSenn wrote: My thoughts on Iraq and the mess over there: From the information we had AT THE TIME, here were our choices: 1. Stay here, and we're right: 2. Stay here, and we blow it: 3. Go to war, and we're right: 4. Go to war, and we're wrong: Look at the consequences of each option. The extremes of the decision were too great to hope that Saddam had nothing.

While I can appreciate your structured approach to the problem, this is a really hideous oversimplification of cause, effect, and international relations.

Pascal's Wager only works in truly binary decision trees with equally binary outcome possibilities.  Neither applies in this case, so your analysis fails.

if kerry is against guns of all kinds, than i say

KERRY CAN SUCK **** FOR ALL I CARE

paintbitter wrote: if kerry is against guns of all kinds, than i say KERRY CAN SUCK **** FOR ALL I CARE

I can't believe I am even responding, but I can't help myself...

Kerry has made it quite clear that he is NOT anti-gun.  I don't know why people think otherwise.

Clark Kent wrote: AdmiralSenn wrote: My thoughts on Iraq and the mess over there: From the information we had AT THE TIME, here were our choices: 1. Stay here, and we're right: 2. Stay here, and we blow it: 3. Go to war, and we're right: 4. Go to war, and we're wrong: Look at the consequences of each option. The extremes of the decision were too great to hope that Saddam had nothing.  While I can appreciate your structured approach to the problem, this is a really hideous oversimplification of cause, effect, and international relations. Pascal's Wager only works in truly binary decision trees with equally binary outcome possibilities.  Neither applies in this case, so your analysis fails.

Clark Kent = KRL15 = robot.

Clark Kent wrote: paintbitter wrote: if kerry is against guns of all kinds, than i say KERRY CAN SUCK **** FOR ALL I CARE I can't believe I am even responding, but I can't help myself... Kerry has made it quite clear that he is NOT anti-gun.  I don't know why people think otherwise.

* In the 107th Congress, Kerry voted for the Schumer Amendment to use millions of taxpayer dollars to buy back legally owned firearms and destroy them.

* Kerry is currently a co-sponsor of S.1431, legislation to ban millions of semi-automatic shotguns and rifles. In fact his own bill would ban the very Remington 11-87 shotgun he recently posed with for the cameras in West Virginia.

* This year he voted to ban gun shows.

* In 1985, Kerry was one of only a handful of Senators to oppose the landmark Firearms Owners Protection Act.

* Kerry voted in the Senate to commend Rosie O'Donnell and the Million Mom march for their anti-gun efforts.

* In 1999, Kerry supported the Lautenberg Amendment S.254 to ban gun shows.

* In 1998, Kerry voted against the Smith Amendment to prevent the federal government from registering guns.

* In 1998, Kerry voted for the Durbin-Chafee Amendment to impose severe criminal penalties on a lawful citizen whose gun was stolen and used in a crime.

* In 1996, Kerry voted to kill the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

* In1994, Kerry voted to ban hunting in over a million acres of California desert S.21

* John Kerry has voted with Ted Kennedy on all but three Anti-gun bills.

* John Kerry has sided with Charles Schumer on all but one Anti-gun bills.

* John Kerry's voting record on guns is more anti-gun than Al Gore!

* John Kerry was given a F grade by the NRA on his stance on gun owner rights

Gatyr wrote: Clark Kent = KRL15

I'll take that compliment.

Darur wrote: *Copied from packrat toys* [Various Kerry gun positions/votes]

I saw that same list on NRA.org before I made my earlier post...

While I haven't chased down each individual reference, I was not impressed by the ones I did chase down.

Gun shows - many responsible gun owners and gun advocates argue that gun shows should either be prohibited or severely restricted.  They are a gaping hole in current law.  I do not equate this with being "anti-gun."

Waiting periods - almost all rational people admit that waiting periods and background checks are a good thing.  I believe that Bush is also in favor of waiting periods and background checks.  I do not equate this with being "anti-gun."

The AWB is an embarassment, but it is a political hot potato, and both Bush and Kerry have unfortunately stated that they are in favor of the AWB.  Given the political nature of this particular beast, I can't count this one.

The NRA is a political organization, and their endorsement/condemnation has no real life value, and I discount it entirely.

I looked at some others as well, and was not impressed.

Some of the items do merit further investigation, but on the whole that list smells of political activism more than impartial reporting.  I suspect that you will find that many people endorsed by the NRA hold positions identical to Kerry on many of those issues.

I will require better/more specific evidence before I would consider Kerry "anti-gun".

I heard that bush was against paintball too.

We had a mock election at my school:

Kerry: 36 votes

Green party: about 24 votes

Bush: 621 votes

Clark Kent wrote: Darur wrote: *Copied from packrat toys* [Various Kerry gun positions/votes] I saw that same list on NRA.org before I made my earlier post... While I haven't chased down each individual reference, I was not impressed by the ones I did chase down. Gun shows - many responsible gun owners and gun advocates argue that gun shows should either be prohibited or severely restricted.  They are a gaping hole in current law.  I do not equate this with being "anti-gun." Waiting periods - almost all rational people admit that waiting periods and background checks are a good thing.  I believe that Bush is also in favor of waiting periods and background checks.  I do not equate this with being "anti-gun." The AWB is an embarassment, but it is a political hot potato, and both Bush and Kerry have unfortunately stated that they are in favor of the AWB.  Given the political nature of this particular beast, I can't count this one. The NRA is a political organization, and their endorsement/condemnation has no real life value, and I discount it entirely. I looked at some others as well, and was not impressed. Some of the items do merit further investigation, but on the whole that list smells of political activism more than impartial reporting.  I suspect that you will find that many people endorsed by the NRA hold positions identical to Kerry on many of those issues. I will require better/more specific evidence before I would consider Kerry "anti-gun".

* Kerry is currently a co-sponsor of S.1431, legislation to ban millions of semi-automatic shotguns and rifles. In fact his own bill would ban the very Remington 11-87 shotgun he recently posed with for the cameras in West Virginia.

Seems to me thats pretty anti-gun.  They are specific guns, but its still anti-gun.  In case you forgot, banning something doesnt show support for it.

* In 1985, Kerry was one of only a handful of Senators to oppose the landmark Firearms Owners Protection Act.

Hmmm, sounds like he isnt showing much support for gun owners there.

* Kerry voted in the Senate to commend Rosie O'Donnell and the Million Mom march for their anti-gun efforts.

Gee, if Kerry is so pro-gun, why is he endorsing anti-gun efforts.  Doesnt make too much sense, now does it?

* In 1999, Kerry supported the Lautenberg Amendment S.254 to ban gun shows.

That is NOT trying to fix a little loophole, that is outright banning them.

* John Kerry has voted with Ted Kennedy on all but three Anti-gun bills.

* John Kerry has sided with Charles Schumer on all but one Anti-gun bills.

Darur wrote: * Kerry is currently a co-sponsor of S.1431, legislation to ban millions of semi-automatic shotguns and rifles. In fact his own bill would ban the very Remington 11-87 shotgun he recently posed with for the cameras in West Virginia. Seems to me thats pretty anti-gun.  They are specific guns, but its still anti-gun.  In case you forgot, banning something doesnt show support for it.

This is one of the items I mentioned that warranted further investigation.  I will do so and report back.

* In 1985, Kerry was one of only a handful of Senators to oppose the landmark Firearms Owners Protection Act. Hmmm, sounds like he isnt showing much support for gun owners there.

You got sucked in by the clever title.  Look that legislation up.  Arguably, voting against that law was a PRO-gun vote.  There is arguably relatively little "pro-gun" in that law, while there were plenty of new ownership restrictions added, such as restrictions on ownership of full-auto guns.  FOPA was a major restructuring of gun ownership in the US, and simply labeling it is "pro-gun" because of the title is overly simplistic.  Not to mention - do we know WHY he voted against?  Did he propose something different?  Was there a specific provision he didn't like?  This is just too easy of a slam...

* Kerry voted in the Senate to commend Rosie O'Donnell and the Million Mom march for their anti-gun efforts. Gee, if Kerry is so pro-gun, why is he endorsing anti-gun efforts.  Doesnt make too much sense, now does it?

I doubt that Kerry ever said "good job to Rosie for being anti-gun."  That is just spin.  Instead, he almost certainly praised the organization for their efforts to effect social change.  I, for instance, am in favor of personal gun ownership, but still think that Million Mom March is an excellent organization that does much good work.  That certainly doesn't make me anti-gun, so why would it for Kerry?

* In 1999, Kerry supported the Lautenberg Amendment S.254 to ban gun shows. That is NOT trying to fix a little loophole, that is outright banning them.

And like I said, many rational pro-gun folks think that banning gun shows are a fine idea.  Gun shows ARE a loophole, and the easy way to close the loophole is to stop having gunshows.  That doesn't make Kerry anti-gun either.

* John Kerry has voted with Ted Kennedy on all but three Anti-gun bills. * John Kerry has sided with Charles Schumer on all but one Anti-gun bills. Looking at both of those one can draw he isnt very pro gun.

Please listen:

Saddam Hussien had weapons that were classified as "of mass destruction" by our intelligence operatives.  Additionally, Osama in his latest tape admits indirectly to a loose connection between himself and Saddam.  Iraq was led by a bad seed who was only steps away from invading another nearby country.  We went in the first time and pushed him out of Kuwait.

If you don't believe me that Saddam is a bad person, ask a Kurd.  If that doesn't work, go through the news archives over the past 12 years since the first war and count the number of times an attack was launched against our aircraft patrolling the 38th paralell.  Count the number of times air defense artillery was moved into strategic locations to engage our aircraft.  I believe a few of our pilots were even shot down.

So far, we have posession of dangerous weapons, and a history of attacks against American forces.  These are reasons to go to war, but, we need proof.  So, we went to the UN.  The UN acted without any sense of alacrity at all, and when they finally did go in, they were knowingly subverted at every inspection.  Every time a group of inspectors went somewhere, it was clean when they got there, and anything that was in there was moved out, and what's worse, the cleaning happened within days of the inspection team arriving.  This logically leads one to conclude that at best, Saddam was hiding something.  At worst, he was hiding what we were looking for.

So, this drew our intelligence operatives to go with the worst case scenario, and inform the President that America was in danger.  President Bush then acted with authority and a sound mind to go in, search for, and neutralize a potential threat.  Militarily speaking, we put the big fat smack down on Saddam.  Now, if you have been paying attention to news reports and observing the outcome of events over the past years and if you have noticed anything about the Arab peoples, you will likely find that they are many things, and one of them is cunning.  It can be speculated that Saddam used the ample and plentiful time he was given to dispose of his massively destructive weapons and not let anyone know about it.  In this respect, he won a moral victory against us.  Conspiracy?  Research some news articles if you don't believe me and find out.

Now, I've said "speculate" a lot.  I say this because our intelligence, while it was very professional, has apparently been thwarted, and only those with a TS/SCI Clearance and a Lifestyle Polygraph can view the information in an Air Force SCIF.  That means that the rest of us can only review the sequence of events and speculate to the best of our ability.

Republicans will never ask permission to defend America.  I believe that President Bush acted with a sound mind and good judgement.

And now, a word on Voting Integrity:

For Bush supporters and Kerry supporters both, and even "Naderites," the question you must ask yourselves is "Why am I voting this way?"  The most important question is not "Who am I voting for?"  It is especially loathsome to vote for candidate A because "I don't like candidate B."  That reason is not acceptable or intelligent, and therefore cannot be the only reason.  The integrity comes into play because you have to think carefully and decide with clarity of thought and purity of mind.  Even if I hated Bush, I like to think that I would vote for him anyway because through his action, I know that I can count on him to act to protect American holdings wherever and whenever they are threatened, and that is important to me in this day and age when it has been proven to me that America is not impervious to attack.  If you want to know what I'm talking about, I refer again to our forces who have been attacked in Iraq for the past 12 years, the USS Cole docked at Yemen, and the Oklahoma City and BOTH attempts to knock down the World Trade Center, the second of which proved successful.  Sadly, I cannot say the same about Kerry, and it has nothing to do with flipflops.  It has everything to do with I have heard much from him about a plan, and his doesn't sound solid to me.  Furthermore, I'm not certain what his plan would be.  Furthermore than that, I'm not certain that he would have responded to the 9/11 attack with the speed, certainty, or determination that Bush had.

Also, under Bush, the damage to our economy after 9/11 was substantial at worst.  Bush enacted measures to begin the rebuilding and I would like you to check the Dow Jones Industrial Average and see if we're at 10000 points again.  Are we?  Yes.  We are.  If you, also, watched the stock market hit its knees and fall a good couple thousand points after the attack on the World Trade Center, then you probably know that we were at just over 10000 points before that attack.  Our economy, in spite of what you may hear, is back up to where it was within the span of a 2 years and some change.  It took longer to get to 10000 points the first time.  Much longer.

I'm not from Texas, I'm from Pennsylvania, living in Maryland now.  I was at one time a soldier stationed in Kansas.  If you want to know what it was like being a soldier in the Clinton Administration, ask yourself if you could follow the orders of a guy who has to hide behind what the definition of the word "is," is.  I did, because I swore an oath to do so.  Upon hearing my Commander in Chief say the dumbest thing I've ever heard, that oath was the only thing I had left.  And, no, a soldier doesn't get paid enough to do what he does.  A soldier does it because if he doesn't stand on the line with a protective mask and a SAW, then it won't be Iraqi women and children in the crossfire, it'll be yours.

Once again, I'm not telling you WHO to vote for, I'm telling you to ask WHY you're voting for who you're voting for.  If you've read my post, you know that I made my decision based on what I've seen and experienced, and I am comfortable with that.

It is the civic duty of everyone in America to vote.  Telling the government what you want is crucial to the American Justice System.  I voted this morning.  You should vote too, if you are eligible.  Please, for the good of the Nation, cast your ballot for the candidate you feel will do the best job based on intelligent, thoughtful research and cognitive foresight and wisdom. 

AMERICA NEEDS YOU!

If you are going to cut and paste political rhetoric, at least tell us where you are getting it...

EDIT - too slow.  For FlayedOne.

Glassjaw wrote: Gun owners wish to ban shows of something they like..?  Umm now is it just me or does that sound extremely odd.  I personally hunt and own a hunting rifle, i greatly enjoy gunshows, it brings many people together to intermingle in one of their hobbies.  How is that wrong?

Not odd at all.  I know plenty of people, personally, who enjoy both guns and gunshows (I am a regular attendee myself), who nevertheless acknowledge that gunshows, at least in their present form, present a massive loophole in gun laws.

Most gunshows I have been to provided for very easy acquisition of firearms in a fashion that would be very illegal elsewhere.

Therefore, as much as I like guns and gunshows, I (and others) believe that it is for the best the we shut them down, at least until we find to way to keep them under control.

AdmiralSenn wrote: I know it is.. but all the choices we could have made boil down to one of those four. I don't see how the analysis fails. Find me one thing we could have done that does not fit into one of those four   options.

Several:  Continued inspections, increased/changed sanctions, different coalition, rebel encouragement, bribery, changing our Israel policy, changing our Saudi policy, changing our Iran policy, going in harder, going in softer, more propaganda, nuke/firebomb Baghdad, etc., etc.  There are an infinite number of possibilities

Also several different results possible for each of your options and the ones I described.  The cause/effect relationship just isn't that simple.

WOW....

I think little Enos is getting too big for his panties. All this Mod crap is getting to his head. C.G.O. has a good point there about Enos and his language. Yesterday I was in a rather hot debate with some indeviduals on here, and we were grown up enough to keep our language civalized for a public forum with younger kids reading the materials. Enos's blatant disregard for the rules of the forum that he's supposed to up keep, makes his posts worthless and petty. Whatever points he might have had are shadowed by his quick temper and childish flame fits.

Multi colored......Dude, if Bin Laden's forces were getting shelter and supplies from Iraq, that right there alone justifies taking them as well. Anyone who helps the terrorists is guilty too. It's the price they pay.

There are people in America right now raising funds for terrorists. Those people need to be arrested and detained indefinantly.

And calling him a "trained ape" was retarded. way to go there...

And Ryan Seacrest is **edited**. So acting like him gives you less merrit then you had before. 

What C.G.O. said about the mexican influx of welfare dependant people from mexico is true. It just costs us all more in tax money every year.

Fact: Some Mexican's who come here are good workers, they pay their taxes, and they're a plus to society.

Fact: The magority of the mexicans who come here, cause our taxes to go up, our crime rates to go up, and our national birth rates to sky rocket.
And why are you calling C.G.O. an inbred brainwashed tool?......just go look at your mexican comunities that you love to protect.

Gees man, shut your errogent ignorant mouth.

And Ryan Seacrest is G A Y. That means that he engages in 'love' relationships with other men. This means he's a pervert. Thus, you acting like him, eliminates any merrit you might have had.

 Clark and M-C. You are idiots. The UN are a bunch of punes anyway, just like France. And Kerry is against way more gun control than Bush, and very little of it has much of a point.  I'm gonna get a bumper sticker that says "Ted Kennedy's Car Has Killed More People Than My Gun". In fact, my immidiate (sp) family owns about 50 or so guns, and none of them has ever shot or killed anyone (unless you count the paintball guns).

 BTW: Don't feel bad C.G.O. I got 2 strikes for saying a word for trashy black people that they call themselves every day.  If a white person says it though, you're part of the klan!

hashi2008 wrote:  Clark and M-C. You are idiots. The UN are a bunch of punes anyway, just like France. And Kerry is against way more gun control than Bush, and very little of it has much of a point.  I'm gonna get a bumper sticker that says "Ted Kennedy's Car Has Killed More People Than My Gun". In fact, my immidiate (sp) family owns about 50 or so guns, and none of them has ever shot or killed anyone (unless you count the paintball guns).  BTW: Don't feel bad C.G.O. I got 2 strikes for saying a word for trashy black people that they call themselves every day.  If a white person says it though, you're part of the klan!

LOL. I want one of those stickers too!

And what you said about black people and what they call each other is so true. They're hypocrits, lazy hypocrits. Have any of you ever heard that speach done by Bill Crosby to the black community? He nailed them. Ang good for him, he's right. For the most part, the black community is full of crap.

We have black boys trying to be mexican, and mexican boys trying to be black, and white boys trying to be everything so they fit in, trying not to get shot. It's stupid. And then, we have EminEm who's blacker then any of them, making fun of a black man who wants to be a white woman! STOP THE MADDNESS!

Just because you think most minorities need to get up off their lazy rear ends and do something usefull, doesn't mean you're KLAN!     OMG!