Comp-Air Question
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Upgrades and Customizing
Forum Description: Trick it out!
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=118140
Printed Date: 14 November 2025 at 1:57pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Comp-Air Question
Posted By: LordJovian
Subject: Comp-Air Question
Date Posted: 08 November 2004 at 8:49am
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What does the goofy two-chambered look do for the comp-air? If i just put a male palmer stab in my ASA, would I need to move everything around or can I leave my stuff where it is and keep the thing off the goes into the tombstone? Hmmm... that sounds confusing. Here- can I just switch out the internals, or do I need the other parts? *GO to bottom of page. Skip the other posts* ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Replies:
Posted By: ritzblitz
Date Posted: 08 November 2004 at 3:16pm
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Im still not sure what your trying to ask after reading it twice. The second chamber is a low pressure chamber if thats what you were asking. -------------  |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 09 November 2004 at 8:29am
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Yeah- do I need that low pressure chamber? I don't want my grip moved (x-chamber) and I'm putting the Palmer Stab into the ASA (once I get it). I like my stuff where it is now, and I just want the low pressure internals. I think it should work without the low pressure chamber thing, am I correct? ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: TrippiN
Date Posted: 09 November 2004 at 8:43am
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It will still work.. But whats the point of the Exp. and a palmer stab., the palmer kind of powers out the Exp. and makes it useless.. or are you just using it as a grip?... Um.. I dont see why it wouldnt work.. ------------- Spyder Imagine 2k4 --- -14" Custom barrel -DOP Xcore 8stage X Chamber -DOP Bullet Drop -12v Revvy w/x board ---- |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 09 November 2004 at 10:20am
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It's my very large gas-thru grip. And I like the way it looks. Ok, just making sure it doesn't cause the air to flow faster at lower psi (faster as in compared to tombstone) to make it work properly. I s'pose I could just try it, but i really don't want my stuff moved around, and i wouldn't want the LPK if it does move my stuff aroud to work properly. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: rmorey
Date Posted: 09 November 2004 at 3:53pm
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No it won't work (well...). The low pressure chamber (in the a-5 comp air kit) is also sometimes called a volumizer. At a lower pressure you will require more volume, which this thing provides. (... and I think you already kind of thought that... but, hey... try it and let us know) ------------- You are never beaten until you admit it. - G. Patton |
Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 09 November 2004 at 6:57pm
rmorey, your both right, and wrong...  Using the Comp-Air kit on the
A-5 without the low pressure chamber is quite possible, but you will get alot of shoot down at high rates of fire, unless you keep your operating pressure fairly high so that the regulator can refresh the valve fast enough. LJ, I think that since you have an x-chamber after your stab, the x- chamber MAY slow down the air flow even more, creating more shoot down. But like I said, if your keeping your operating pressure fairly high, you may be able to avoid shoot down. I'm no scientist so I'm not gonna pop off some numbers to prove what I'm saying... I do however know that some people have used the lpk w/o the low pressure chamber, they have their regulator going straight into the tombstone. ------------- 
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: G
Date Posted: 09 November 2004 at 7:05pm
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keep yer lpc on, leave the exp ch. where it is, and get a female stab. ------------- Heaven = a warm water barreling overhead right-hand point-break on an uncrowded beach with a never-ending quiver of surfboards |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 10 November 2004 at 8:31am
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Thats what I was worried about, shoot down (couldn't get the right words out). Since that little thing provides volume, wouldn't my expansion chamber provide volume? My x-chamber is quite a bit larger, and from what I see on the LPK is a reg and a chamber (standard setup). If my reg is in the ASA, and I've got a large chamber attached to the tombstone, wouldn't that do the same job? ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: rmorey
Date Posted: 10 November 2004 at 8:39am
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Good question! Your logic seems sound. Try it and let us know. ------------- You are never beaten until you admit it. - G. Patton |
Posted By: TrippiN
Date Posted: 10 November 2004 at 11:26am
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I dont see why it would work.. still... That palmer should do most of the work, and the expansion, shoulda harm or cause shot down... Honestly, just give it a try.. I doubt you would experience any problems.. if so.. somethings gotta go.. though it seems thats not something you want to do. ------------- Spyder Imagine 2k4 --- -14" Custom barrel -DOP Xcore 8stage X Chamber -DOP Bullet Drop -12v Revvy w/x board ---- |
Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 10 November 2004 at 11:13pm
There's one major difference between your x-chamber setup and the low pressure chamber setup, besides the fact that the x-chamber may have multiple chambers inside of it! On the standard setup, air that flows out of the regulator does not have to pass through the low pressure chamber inorder to reach valve. The chamber will stabalize pressure once the reg allows its first burst of air through and then reaches max pressure. On your setup, air that comes out of the regulator must pass through your line, through the x-chamber, and finally into the valve. The refresh rate will be affected by how close or far your regulator is from your valve. I wish I could remember the thread that had the animation showing how a regulator works, and how it refreshes the valve. The regulator can not stabilize the pressure in the valve instantly, it will let a large burst of air into the valve, which will cause a high pressure area after the reg, and a low pressure area at the valve. This air must move through all the hoses and whatnot inorder to reach a stable pressure, then the regulator will slowly allow more air out inorder to reach the pressure its set for. (slowly as in miliseconds!) -------------
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
LordJovian wrote:Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 10 November 2004 at 11:33pm
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I belive what you're trying to say is that the regulator lets out a burst of gas until it receives back pressure of the given psi. After connecting the air source, the air should fill all chambers. Upon firing, the lowered psi input will cause the air to enter the CVX slower. It should work much like a single file line, as the air moves during rapid fire, the regulator should be constantly pushing air out to reach the correct pressure setting. I am using an 800 psi output tank, so this should give the regulator plenty of push against any movement of air. If the input pressure into the gun is 400 psi, then the regulator should be able to easily keep up with an 800 psi input into it. It's kinda like a shower with an open drain being filled with a fire hose- even though the drain is draining water, the rate of drainage is lower than the rate of filling. I just wanted to check against any who may have had experience with this. For some reason, it seems I'm the only looney that wants to keep my x-chamber on a HPA based gun. I like how close it's positioned to me, I like how its shaped for my hand, and I like how it looks. On ocassion, I have to hold my gun like a LAW or RPG to shoot in certain situations. Ex- I'm pinned down, but I have a shot on someone on higher ground, and I'm pinned on the lower ground. I'm able to hold my gun like an RPG & lay back and fire at the high ground, while staying covered from the attackers on the low ground. It's a weird sitaution, but my local field has an area like that. It's great fun to surprise the bejeesus outta the fellows on the high ground. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: cadet_sergeant
Date Posted: 11 November 2004 at 10:03am
| if your running on N2 you wont need a expantion chamber it wont help you any. you'll need a reg. to regulate the air going into the LPK. the LPK hooks to your ASA and you can put a reg on it but you can also hook you tank directly to the LPK, if your looking for a more constant get the reg. the reg will also give you more shots with your tank, than with out one. hope i helped. i didnt really understand what you where asking |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 11 November 2004 at 10:15am
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I've been told a hundred times that I don't need the x-chamber for HPA/N2. But, I do need it for a grip/looks. I like it, and it can help act as a volumizer for the LPK. The reg on the tank is good enough for ormal operation, but now I need a reg only to control the psi to lower it for the LPK. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: rmorey
Date Posted: 11 November 2004 at 2:31pm
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Boy... some good discussion (except for some who like to post without reading...) LJ, I think FyreFly is making a good point. A normal volumizer is right next to the valve. It's there to give you that extra volume (at the right pressure) right when and where you need it. When you shoot, the pressure drops instantly, but to reach that correct pressure you have to wait for the regulator to do its job. If you have a lot of tubing between your x-chamber and valve, it won't work as well as a volumizer. Like your 'single file' example, it take a time (well, a small time) for your regulator to notice that it needs more pressure. If you're shooting fast, this could be a big deal. Bottom line, I think it will help. But it all depends on how close it is to the valve. ------------- You are never beaten until you admit it. - G. Patton |
Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 11 November 2004 at 11:13pm
Regulators don't work that way. The regulator isn't open until it detects back pressure. If you could actually slow down and see what's happening in the fraction of a second that the regulator is actually allowing air to pass through it, you will have a "high pressure zone" and a "low pressure zone". The area right after the reg, in your case your ASA, will be at a much higher pressure than the area of the valve. Hence, the regulator will cease to allow air in, until the air in the ASA has moved ALL THE WAY to the valve and a stable pressure has been achieved. Obviously now that the air has spread out to fill everything from the reg to the valve, the pressure will have lowered. It is now that the reg will open a second time inorder to allow a very small amount of air through to reach the desired operating pressure. This all happens in fractions of a second, and the time it takes the air to move from the reg to the valve will greatly affect the time this takes to happen. When running high pressure the air will travel much faster than when operating at a lower pressure. How does the low pressure chamber come into play? I can't honestly tell you because I don't have any experience them. But this concept of high and low pressure zones and the reg opening twice, IS how regs operate on a normal high pressure gun. If I were you and I didn't want to have the vertical adapter and low pressure chamber on my gun... I would remove the x-chamber, and place your reg into the tombstone, as close as possible to the valve. You can then use your reg as a handle instead of the x-chamber. Got a guage on it?? Set your reg and then take it off! BTW... still looking for that animation that shows how a regulator works.... -------------
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 12 November 2004 at 8:38am
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I got everything setup last night, and the rear bolt was moving rapidly but the sear wouldn't catch it. I tried changing the reg setting, then realized I was out of air. I'm gonna test it this afternoon, after a fill, then let you guys know how it turned out. I'm not following your description of the reg. You say it releases air into the ASA, where its high pressure, then waits for the air to return a backpressure to get the desired psi. I belive thats exactly how the reg on the tank works. When I connect the air to my gun, the remote line will fill with a high pressure of air, and fill all the way to the valve. When the tank's reg receives a psi measurement of 800 psi, it stops. It's not an instant stop, its more gradual. As it gets closer to the correct psi, it slows down how fast it's letting air out, then cuts off at the setting. the tank worked the same way, and had a long way to fill to the valve. Granted 800 psi will flow faster, I'm sure the 325 psi air would fill quickly enough. The reg will release a burst of air at 800 psi, and it will receive the backpressure psi and release air just like the tank's reg, and cut off at the desired setting. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 12 November 2004 at 3:11pm
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Ah, an update- I have determined what I need to do to make this work. Unfortunately, my particular x-chamber has a very small hole on the top to release the air. I removed the chambers, and all I had to do was drill open the mouth of the x-chamber. UNTIL, I realized the bottom portion of the x-chamber was held on by a bolt that connected from the top, and was threaded all the way down to the bottom. If I don't drill out the mouth, the low pressure air is too restricted and can't get into the gun fast enough. The recharge rate is fine/ will be fine, since the volume of the x-chamber is similar to the volumizer's. Here's my dilemma- Should I 1) Attach the bottom portion of the x-chamber with just red loctite. 2) Drill small holes and use small bolts to hold bottom portion on. 3) Do both. Or do I have any other options? The portion I need to attach isn't very long and contains an o-ring around it. Only problem is that after its attached the bottom won't spin to allow me to re-position it. I'll just have to make sure the tombstone will fit on correctly before attaching it. *edit* Due to time constraints, I went with choice #1. Please tell me if I made a bad choice. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: 98c - baller
Date Posted: 12 November 2004 at 5:04pm
| LPK = worthess, get a plamer reg |
Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 12 November 2004 at 7:51pm
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^Wrong. Obviously never used an LP kit and/or is incapable of setting one up correctly. There's nothing worthless about the LPK. ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 14 November 2004 at 3:29am
 Red = 800psi Yellow = 600psi Green = 400psi Blue = 200psi Please notice that when air enters the reg, there are different pressure zones. This is how air travels, air will move from a high pressure zone to a low pressure zone. Ever watch the weather channel?? Wonder where wind comes from?? This isn't really the pic I was looking for, but it'll do for now... BTW. Go http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/regulators/howtheywork/index.shtml - here to learn more. -------------
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 8:26am
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Well, I'm aware that air moves from high to low. That shows the air will keep moving, like I expect it to. You forgot that outside the CVX the air is at 14 psi. So, the psi difference from valve to outside is 311 psi. However, the difference from one end of the reg to the other is 475 psi. Thats assuming its set at 325 psi, per LPK instructions. So, it seems the air entering the low pressure area will enter faster than the valve can discharge it. It's kinda like a race- one car is traveling at 475 psi, and the car traveling at 311 psi is front of the faster car in the way. The setup I'm going for is going to mimic the LPK volumizer/ASA piece (the big black thing). I'm not sure if you're trying to say the the LPK doesn't work, or that you're trying to say the air will not flow fast enough because the reg isn't right next to the volumizer. The reg doesn't need to be there, thats just what Tippmann figured out on where to put everything. Not everyone can put the regulator in the ASA, because most put their tank in there. The reg is only next to the volumizer for compatibility issues, not for operational issues. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: rmorey
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 9:01am
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Nice animation FyreFly... yes, I've seen a better one out there too, but this shows it pretty well. I'm sure the volumizer (a.k.a. x-chamber) should be as close to the valve as possible. Your point about the regulator location is a good one. Does it matter how close it is to the volumizer? Or should it be farther away to minimize pressure fluctuations. ------------- You are never beaten until you admit it. - G. Patton |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 12:31pm
And the desripction on that page matches my description exactly, but mine was extreme short hand. It releases air until it detects the set psi- the animation shows it releasing air until the air reaches the correct setting, and the valve letting air in is closed. You (Fyrefly) said there were two releases of air, but there is only one. I thought you were saying something really weird.  The distance shouldn't matter, as long as there is a wide enough opening near the valve. When the valve opens, x volume of gas leaves from the CVX, tombstone, and volumizer (since they share their volumes) at a specific rate (325 psi into 14 psi). The moment this gas starts flowing out, the regulator detects this and begins to allow the gas at 800 psi in (800 psi into 325 psi). To help picture this, imagine my previous setup. I have a nitro tank attached to a remote line. The valve is obviously pretty far from the reg on the tank, but there is no problems getting the gas to the valve fast enough. The only way for there to be a problem is if I tried shooting and continued shooting very very rapidly the instant gas begins to flow into the empty, previously un-compressed chambers. Those chambers aren't exactly empty (otherwise I'm in outer soace) but are charged normally at 14 psi. The air will flow fast enough no matter how far the reg is. My current problem is the x-chamber's small opening. I've figured out how to hold these halves together. I have to set screws into the side of the body, with a "bridge" going across the chamber. This bridge will have a hole to accommodate the bolt that previously held both halves together. Then, I'll have to grind out the opening. Once this is done, I'll have an x-chamber made volumizer. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 2:40am
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Where are you getting 14psi from?? Whatever... anyway.... if it works,
cool. I hope it does. And I hope you can pull out 15bps with it too. -------------
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 8:24am
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14 psi is the air that you're breathing right now. 1 ATM is the atmospheric pressure we experience, and 1 ATM is equal to about 14 psi. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: rmorey
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 1:20pm
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The 14 psi isn't important here... we're talking about "differential pressure" (the difference between atmosphere and valve / bottle pressures. Absolute pressure is only important when we're talking about physical properties is gases, etc... (e.g. when is co2 a gas vs. a liquid...) The gages on our guns are reading "differential pressure" not "absolute pressure" (all this typing and it doesn't really mean anything with respect to your example... My only confusion is that I would think that the distance between the volumizer / x-chamber and the valve would be very important. Gas does not flow instantly and you should get fluctuations until the pressure equalizes. This will take (somewhat) more time with longer lines to your valve. ------------- You are never beaten until you admit it. - G. Patton |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 19 November 2004 at 8:27am
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Think of it like a line waiting to get on a theme park ride. As soon as the people in front get on the ride, the people in the back waiting to get into the line move up as the others get on. The gas doesn't leave first, then fill up. The actions occur simultaneously. As air leaves the CVX, air enters the volumizer. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 20 November 2004 at 10:43pm
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Yeah, but the air is moving pretty slowly at 325psi when compared to the
flow at 800psi. I have no doubt that this setup will work. Will it still work when you are shooting 15-17bps however?? -------------
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: rmorey
Date Posted: 22 November 2004 at 3:15pm
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Try it... let us know... ------------- You are never beaten until you admit it. - G. Patton |