^^ either you beleive what ever you hear or you had a bad experience with an older model but autocockers are not slow especially mine and its stock and a guy at my feild was acually about to trade his 03 shocker vision for it because it was so fast and nice and durable. Ive had this gun for 7 months and not one problem with it and not one upgrade on it either. And people have always asked about it and when they shot they it loved it. the autococker is fast enough for speedball and woodsball and is only 4-5 bps slower than the bko mayber 6 bps for 04 models but with the eblade it really rips

but the autococker is not that hard to clean really. and its very durable (mine is that is) but people at my feild with 04's have had no problems. an average speed for an autococker on hpa (helps) is 9 bps but with a spoon trigger or new frame and 3 way you can hit around 11 bps (some one at my feild hit 11 on mine i hit around 10 to 11 on average so they are quite fast. also are very accurate guns

(yes i no im bragging a little but they are that good ask anyone who owns one currently)

GET AN 04 vert

vftactical2 wrote: ^^ either you beleive what ever you hear or you had a bad experience with an older model but autocockers are not slow especially mine and its stock

Right O yea its not slow compared to those Timmies, Angels, shockers, Borgs, and other electro guns that shoot close to 20+bps and the cocker can barley do 10bps but other then that thier no slow.

vftactical2 wrote:  and a guy at my feild was acually about to trade his 03 shocker vision for it because it was so fast and nice and durable.

Thats guy is a moron. plain and simple. While Shockers are not the greatest guns they are alot faster then a stock cocker will ever be

Please get your facts straight. Don't say that cockers are fast when they can never compete with a high-end electro gun. and stop being so biased.

Panda Man wrote: Cockers are Mechanical anyway... there is no way they can reach over 8pbs... And there trigger isn't all that smooth in the first place, then if you dont time it just perfect you gadda worry about short stroking and blow back

Yea very true. Or you could just get an electric pnuematic gun which is alot easier since you don't have to worry about any of that stuff

im talking about its fast with those guns he posted sure a timmi and angel are waayy faster duhh. and yes panda man it can go faster that 8 bps just look at an automag

outkasts are good but for speed id get the bko

No not really. I could actually go faster with my m98 the my old cocker. Atleast with my M98 I didn't have to worry about short stroking so I could shoot as fast as I wanted. Nice try at trying to make the cocker sound like a good gun.  

Panda Man wrote: you could buy a E-Cocker but there atleast 650$  A BKO with 300$ worth of upgrades would Dust a Cocker...

no **edited** in speed of course and i no an autococker is slower than a spyder but it is better but its better in reliability when it comes to going up against electros but with speed its no compitition electro wins of course

old cockers sucked thats why your 98c can go faster cause their slow as hell but the new 04's are way faster that the old 01's or 99's of course

i agree with you guys that cockers are slow but when i say their fast i mean in the mechanical market like up against other mechs not electros

so calm down its not like im saying cockers are better than every other gun out their but i dont appreciate you calling them the worst guns out their of course id rather have a high end electro thats why im getting the e2 frame

wtf is a BKO???????????????

Pariel wrote: Scareface, let's go. My 'cocker, your 98. For starters, 'cockers are some of the most accurate guns on the market stock, and come at great price (I got my 2002 with all ANS pneumatics, Dye hinge frame, revvy, and 47/3000 tank for $250, '03 vert feeds go for $220).

How long have you been playing paintball? Are you that biased and that ignorant or are you just a dumb newb. How could actually believe a cocker is more acurate then anyother gun out there. That is pure BS and pure Whorre Hype. NO gun is more accurate then anyother gun out there. With a good barrel and a good paint to barrel bore match any gun will be accurate. I would say that- that pretty much invalidates that entire point. There goes attempt number one at trying to make a cocker sound good.  

Pariel wrote:  While it may not be as fast as an Impulse, or BKO, it's a LOT cheaper, has more upgrades, and is easily used by even new players. Just because you had trouble with short stroking doesn't mean 'cockers suck, you either can't time your 'cocker, or you just suck at shooting. I've shoot over 2000 balls through 'cocker in the past month, and the only time I've ever short stroked a 'cocker in my life was the first time I picked it up, and that was one ball.

Is it really ALOT cheaper eh...pff wow I think my head just exploded at the stupidity of this post. A stock Outkast cost close to $450, not much more then a stock Impy and a stock Bushmaster. The truth is that they all cost close to the same price as entry level electro guns and I would much rather have a B2k then a cocker. There goes attempt number two at trying to make a cocker sound good. I love how cocker people try to always blame the trashy quality of a cocker on the user. They can never admit that cockers are trash. As I have said before my cocker and the cockers of other people on my team had to be the worst guns we have ever used. With my cocker I had to replace about 100 different parts after the first month I used it. For the other people they had similar problems. For me that is good enough and convincing enough that cockers are trash. Also the fact that at tourneys there are always tons of people with cocker waiting to get thier guns fixed. Face it already cockers are a POS. They need close to 1,000 to make them as good as other guns out there and they are compleatly unreliable trash. You would be better off throwing the paint with your hands they using a cocker. Please just crawl back into your corner with your trashy gun and go play with yourself.

JBird33 wrote: Scarface, quit being a sissy and trash-talking cockers. My cocker will own any gun of yours, I guarantee you that. Sure, I have an E-Blade. Big deal. Every gun out there needs upgrades to be good. Do I like mech cockers? No. You don't know how to fix your own gun, that's your fault. If there is a problem with my gun, you won't see me in any line to get it fixed. I will be out there, playing the game and having fun. And you know what else? I will do it the whole time with my cocker, shooting faster than most of the other people out there too.

A sissy eh..if you say so. I really doubt that your cocker would out perform my Alias timmy if we clamped it down to a table and did a test. Basically now its come down to cocker people namecalling (as in Jbird calling me a sissy) and trying to have a pissing contest by saying that "my coccker can pwn ur gun anday". Please just shut up already and stop acting like a 13 year old. Having a pissing contest is what dumb 6th graders do. As I said before I can't see how stuff randomly breaking out of the box is the users fault, once again another cocker person to ignorant and biased to admit the gun is trash. Also once again the person has to instantly blame the user for problems because they can't face the facts that thier guns are poop. As for every gun needing upgrades that is compleate bull poop. For my Timmy I like the way it is stock and I plan to leave it like that. Also guns like Angels and Dm4s and now Dm5's are great stock and they don't NEED upgrades to make them perform better. As I said before cockers need tons of upgrades to make them perform better. I think that you should join Pariel in the same hole and both of you can play with eachother while you work on your poopy guns.  

^^ AND YOU ALSO PAYED 1000+ DOLLARS, it seems you have NO idea on what you are talking about, a cocker a trash gun? joining the ban wagon i see. Mech cockers are absolutly fine, dont chop, and when set up correctly RELIABLE. im sure after getting used to the trigger most people can pull about 8 - 10, i can pull 10 personaly, well used to.

Look into a used mech cocker or a BKO with a blind bolt.

as for scarface, you need to get your facts straight and stop arguing when you are WRONG.

^^I would bet my gun would outshoot yours, strapped down, clamped, what have you. And you say your gun didn't need any upgrades? So - you left the barrel stock? What about the stock Bob Long reg? They aren't exactly outstanding either.

I have a Nightkast with CCM internals, CCM delrin bolt, CCM delrin back block, CCM delrin bolt, CCM aluminum pump arm, STO ram with TRVs, and a S!ff! carbon fiber barrel kit. Bring on your Timmy, or any other Timmy for that matter. Don't get me wrong, I love Timmy's, but I'm willing to bet my gun is faster, more consistent, and easier on air than your stock Alias.

 We probably have the same amount invested into our guns, and I completely respect anyone who owns a gun as good as an Alias, but that doesn't mean that all cockers are trash.

so you had a bad experience with your old cocker maybe because its from 01 or something and they were crappy i know but the vf tactical and all other 04s some maybe some 03s were good but the new cockers have been redisigned and all that and while they are slow (stock)they are good

so stop crying like a baby about a bad experience with your old one because i havnt had one not one problem yet and ive had it for a year and i play woodsball which is tuff on a gun

and no, timmies are the most problematic guns on the market to date. ask just about anyone

gnarkill wrote: all other guns > cockers.

I agree.

JBird33 wrote: ^^I would bet my gun would outshoot yours, strapped down, clamped, what have you. And you say your gun didn't need any upgrades? So - you left the barrel stock? What about the stock Bob Long reg? They aren't exactly outstanding either.

Ok but there is no way you can prove that unless the test were physically done. Yes the barrel is stock and the reg is also stock. Right now I plan on leaving it like that. With a good paint to barrel bore match I have had pretty good accuracy. I might change the barrel and upgrade to a Freak not because of accuracy problems but because I play in tournaments I need the versitility of being able to change bore sizes. Right now I still have the stock torpedo reg on there and I have not had any problems with it so I don't plan on ever changing that. Also if the torpedo reg is not that great then why do so many people buy them as an upgrade?

vftactical2 wrote: so you had a bad experience with your old cocker maybe because its from 01 or something and they were crappy i know but the vf tactical and all other 04s some maybe some 03s were good but the new cockers have been redisigned and all that and while they are slow (stock)they are good so stop crying like a baby about a bad experience with your old one because i havnt had one not one problem yet and ive had it for a year and i play woodsball which is tuff on a gun and no, timmies are the most problematic guns on the market to date. ask just about anyone

Just kill yourself please and do everyone in here a favor. Im not sure how I'm "crying". I'm giving personal experience and fact to back up what I say. If anyone in here is crying its the cocker people because they can't handle people reveling that thier precious gun is a POS. As for Timmys being a problematic well thats just idiotic (which at this point that doesn't surprise me). From doing research and talking to people who have owned Timmys and from my own personal experience the fact is that as long as you keep all the interals lubed you will have no trouble with a Timmy..Period! So far my Alias has not had one problem and I haven't had to replace anything on it, thats more then I can so for the trashy, poopy Cocker.

Panda Man wrote: wowsers... oh people lets kool it a little... I dont want some one to guested agian after the last debate of which gun is better...

Ah..I guess.

i would get a bko...i got one and loved it.  it was good out of the box and it wasnt that slow like some one said.  then i got into tourneys alot and i put a b2k4 board in there (36 bps but the cap is like 18 but thats still plenty fast) i put osme new grips on there (ICD has the worst grips ever) and i got a new barrel even tho the stock one wasnt that bad, slapped a halo on, and took it to a local field and had a custom trigger job done and i spent less than 1000 bux on it all including the gun and i have had ppl offer me timmies, angels, i think maybe a shocker for it but i turned them all down.  these werent crappy guns either they were pretty new most of them.

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Just kill yourself please and do everyone in here a favor. Im not sure  As for Timmys being a problematic well thats just idiotic (which at this point that doesn't surprise me). From doing research and talking to people who have owned Timmys and from my own personal experience the fact is that as long as you keep all the interals lubed you will have no trouble with a Timmy..Period! So far my Alias has not had one problem and I haven't had to replace anything on it, thats more then I can so for the trashy, poopy Cocker.

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see how it feels

Panda Man wrote: wowsers... oh people lets kool it a little... I dont want some one to guested agian after the last debate of which gun is better... I think  Scareface22 Doesn't want to get guested agian... Aren't I right ImpyKing??? Also... Maybe one gun fits one's personal style better then the other one... All the cockers I've played in a game was very disatisfying(sp) to  me... Also, I'm not a big fan of ICD guns, but They seem to be the best guns you can get for the price... Hopefully this will Help calm everyones nerves...

 i totally agree i just have a problem with him saying my gun is crap when hes never shot one of the new ones

vftactical2 wrote: see how it feels

Ah...let me think about it...no.