http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4014901.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4014901.stm

OMG someone killed another person in wartime?!?!?!?!

Cut his head off!!!

adrenalinejunky wrote: Not directly related to the specific incident, but something i saw on another forum i frequent that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter... Im sitting here watching MSNBC and they are talking about, suprise suprise, Fallujah. Anyway, I think its absolutely disgusting that the media is allowed so close to actuall fighting! Now, they are grilling some Marines and Soldiers for killing the enemy! Are you insane? One Marine in question apparently shot an insurgent, even though he appeared wounded. Well guess what CNN and so forth........these holes are booby trapping themselves with explosives, so when they are shot, they can detonate themselves when the American troops go to aid them, as per the damned Geneva Conventions. This particular Marine was actually SHOT IN THE FACE THE DAY BEFORE! HELLO?!?!?! Anyone out there in media-land listening to this? This man was shot in the face, and one day later, at his own request, was back out fighting the enemy! Why dont you lazy arm chair quarterbacks get off your butts and get the stories that matter out to the public. In your search to be so friggen politically correct, all you do it make us look like barbarians. Then you bring on so called military experts who are nothing more than tree hugging pansies, liberals at that! Come on, be fair to the troops and let them do their jobs. Apparently you losers arent familiar with the mentality of "better him than me." These insurgents could just do the right thing and let the new Iraqi government take over.......if you really want us out so bad, then sit down and shut up! If you want to attack us, then be prepared to reap the fury of the beast! And to the media, this is war, its not a friggen Candyland game, okay? Shut your stupid cameras off and shove them somewhere the sun dont shine. I was interviewed by the media when I got home last year from the war and had no problem doing so, but it seems like now the American public doesnt have enough drama with Jerry Springer and all the reality shows, they want to know everything thats going on over there. Well I personally dont think people should know everything, if you want to know, join the military, until then, shut up and watch Survivor. Hindsight is a . If I wouldve known how the media would try and portray us when we are just doing our jobs over there, I wouldve told them to kiss my and get the away from me and my family. Its not fair at all. You know the worst part? We here more about fricken Iraqis who are being killed for attacking us then we do about American heroes who lay their lives down for this country. How many times does Fox News, CNN or anyone else show pictures and names of those brave Americans who made the ultimate sacrifice for the USA? How about a little salute and tribute to honor them? So a few Iraqis got stripped and had pics taken, OH NO! Guys like that were flying planes into our buildings, taking hostages, cutting off heads and bombing crap for years and now we have to be nicey nice with them? I would never shed a tear for the media personel captured over there, they shouldnt be there. I think Ive seen 2 or 3 National Geographic reporters who traveled with the 3rd ID into Iraq last year who actually seemed to care........other than that, they are out for a story........how ironic that their capture becomes their best story ever! GET OUT AND LEAVE US TO DO OUR JOBS!

I totally agree on what that person is sayin and I dont blame his anger towards the media.....

Ilovepaintball1 wrote: The man probley asked the marine to end him...

Thats what I was thinking, and no the guy probly didnt speak english but some marines can speak in Iraqui (? dont know the language lol)

evil_fingers wrote: adrenalinejunky wrote: Not directly related to the specific incident, but something i saw on another forum i frequent that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter... Im sitting here watching MSNBC and they are talking about, suprise suprise, Fallujah. Anyway, I think its absolutely disgusting that the media is allowed so close to actuall fighting! Now, they are grilling some Marines and Soldiers for killing the enemy! Are you insane? One Marine in question apparently shot an insurgent, even though he appeared wounded. Well guess what CNN and so forth........these holes are booby trapping themselves with explosives, so when they are shot, they can detonate themselves when the American troops go to aid them, as per the damned Geneva Conventions. This particular Marine was actually SHOT IN THE FACE THE DAY BEFORE! HELLO?!?!?! Anyone out there in media-land listening to this? This man was shot in the face, and one day later, at his own request, was back out fighting the enemy! Why dont you lazy arm chair quarterbacks get off your butts and get the stories that matter out to the public. In your search to be so friggen politically correct, all you do it make us look like barbarians. Then you bring on so called military experts who are nothing more than tree hugging pansies, liberals at that! Come on, be fair to the troops and let them do their jobs. Apparently you losers arent familiar with the mentality of "better him than me." These insurgents could just do the right thing and let the new Iraqi government take over.......if you really want us out so bad, then sit down and shut up! If you want to attack us, then be prepared to reap the fury of the beast! And to the media, this is war, its not a friggen Candyland game, okay? Shut your stupid cameras off and shove them somewhere the sun dont shine. I was interviewed by the media when I got home last year from the war and had no problem doing so, but it seems like now the American public doesnt have enough drama with Jerry Springer and all the reality shows, they want to know everything thats going on over there. Well I personally dont think people should know everything, if you want to know, join the military, until then, shut up and watch Survivor. Hindsight is a . If I wouldve known how the media would try and portray us when we are just doing our jobs over there, I wouldve told them to kiss my and get the away from me and my family. Its not fair at all. You know the worst part? We here more about fricken Iraqis who are being killed for attacking us then we do about American heroes who lay their lives down for this country. How many times does Fox News, CNN or anyone else show pictures and names of those brave Americans who made the ultimate sacrifice for the USA? How about a little salute and tribute to honor them? So a few Iraqis got stripped and had pics taken, OH NO! Guys like that were flying planes into our buildings, taking hostages, cutting off heads and bombing crap for years and now we have to be nicey nice with them? I would never shed a tear for the media personel captured over there, they shouldnt be there. I think Ive seen 2 or 3 National Geographic reporters who traveled with the 3rd ID into Iraq last year who actually seemed to care........other than that, they are out for a story........how ironic that their capture becomes their best story ever! GET OUT AND LEAVE US TO DO OUR JOBS! I totally agree on what that person is sayin and I dont blame his anger towards the media.....

I agree, although, It was a lil hard on Fox, they aren't Liberal (with a few exceptions)

i love how there are military papparazzi now that pop up to video tape the US military behaving badly...

you put someone in fallujah with an M16 and don't expect them to shoot people? i don't know about you but if someone shoots at me and then drops their weapon like "oh please don't shoot" they're still getting 2 in the chest 1 in the head on principle... an enemy isn't a non-combatant unless he's dead...

Say it like this too.....if a insurgent had a US Soldier held captive and there was  reporter there, would the insurgent kill the US soldier in front of the report....HELL YEAH he would, whos the reporter gonna report to....his superiors, yeah right!

This is another ugly face of war. Was the Joe who punched that insurgents ticket justified? Yep. Having been shot in the face the day before, the knowlege that dead and wounded have been booby trapped, and add the adrenaline, sleep deprivation and shell shock on top of that, and things like this will happen. The environment itself causes people to do things like this that are a terrible reality of warfare. Actions that will be regretted later.

This will unfortuneatly cost us. Public relations will be set back. More hostages could be executed in retaliation. The media is realy gonna screw this up even worse. They will not paint a fair picture of what happened. Already there is talk of possible criminal charges. This poor G.I. is gonna fry for doing his job of snuffing someone who would have killed him, other soldiers or inocent civillians.

Sad thing is, they should not have returned the soldier to combat after being shot in the face the day before. Somthing like that is bound to traumatize a person. Evaltuations and such should be peformed to make sure that the soldier does not go back out with a case of the ass and an itchy trigger finger. They definately need to oust the media from those combat units. They endager the lives of soldiers just through the distraction they cause. The p.r. poblems that they cause are not worth it.

munky! wrote: VisionIMP wrote: Its ok that the terrorists do it to the U.S soldiers, but once a U.S soldier does it to one of them, its a big crime. This world is so damn biased towards everything this country does it makes me sick. ok now lets flip that around, waht did us troops do to iraqi soldiers

What Iraqi soldier are you talkin bout?

munky! wrote: the media probibly exagerated being shot in the face, it was probibly like richochet that skimed his cheek or somthing...

Possibly. Does that make it less tramatizing? No. Psychological well being is important to an effective soldier. He listens to orders better, thinks more clearly, and is better prepared to defend his own life and his comrades in battle. Combat stress can take a huge toll on a soldiers ability to make rational decisions. This incedent appears to be a shining example. Even if he was not shot the day before, the stress of combat alone without injuries can cause one to lose his marbs for long enough to make a bad decision. Think about your best freind taking a shot to the dome in front of you, and try and be rational. The sight of dead bodies alone is more than most can take.

These guys are living in hell, and the statement you just made seems to somewhat trivialize what he has (for sure) gone through.

evil_fingers wrote: Hades....isnt that pic from a scene from Silence of the Lambs?

nope... the prequel to silence... the title escapes me... dragon somethin or another...

"Red Dragon"

I cant agree more with adrenalinejunky and the others. War isn't beautiful, it isn't a seseame street special and it isn't a place to nitpick every single encounter with the enemy.

You hesitate, you die - its that simple.

This shouldn't be much of a surprise, though. The media made it unquestionable clear where they stood during this year's election - anywhere Bush isn't. (Fox being the exception)

Sandman........... you are brilliant

and i mean that in a good way, you have summed it up perfectly

Beautiful, couldn't have said it better. Someone should frame this.      

oldsoldier wrote: It is amazing how individuals who have never seen the face of war are the first to judge. Question for all, how many of you have shot a teammate in an adrenaline haste moment? Not the same thing by imagine being under real fire for days, and in his shoes. Under the rules of combat which each american soldier/marine is aware, an enemy who in his judgement can inflict injury or death upon himself or his unit the soldier/marine can and is expected to use lethal force to eliminate such threat. Several examples of "sleepers" or booby trapped bodies made this situation just that a potential lethal threat to the marine and or his unit, and he eliminated that threat. Now my suggestion to keep this from happening again is to enlist the "volunteer" help of our news media to assist in these situations and armed with their "rule" book and the knowledge of how good these people are can assist the marines by themselves searching these bodies or wounded, knowing deep in their liberal hearts that they are safe from any threat of these unarmed iraqi insurgents, as they roll them over. Get a clue people

dude, u must not have been reading what every1 wrote, everyone in here is saying the same thing you just said...... we have a clue.

I don't really care if he wasted the iraqi .  If it was me I would have shot him as well as any other of the  ragheads that were around.  As far as that being "wrong and biased" goes, SO WHAT!!!  Do you thing those  arent biased against us???  No they're only killing us because its something to do!!! HELLO!!  All of you friggin liberal morons need to wake up!!  That marine did what he thought was best and since you weren't there you don't know what was best and you won't ever know because you're probably too much of a little  to enlist in the military!!  My brother is in the navy, so as far as i'm concerned I dont care what it takes to kill those  and get my bro back home.  But O my gosh let's not kill any of those !! 

We ought to torture them and make sure they understand why you don't  with the U.S.  That's what I think

---Not my words, but it gets to the point.

  It’s a safety issue pure and simple.

   After assaulting through a target, put a security round in everybody’s head. Sorry al-Reuters, there’s no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up “prisoners” and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There’s no time to **edited** around in the target, you clear the space, dump the chumps, and moveon.org. Are Corpsman expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to spend one man minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist, its much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.

By the way, terrorists who chop off civilian’s heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses.

UPDATE: Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers. Here is your situation Marine. You just took fire from unlawful combatants shooting from a religious building attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you’re in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they’re not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these kind of idiots, and like taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fireteam’s lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Also, you don’t know who or what is in the next room, and you’re already speaking english to each other and its loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist that was just shooting at you from a mosque playing possum. What do you do?

You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that’s what.

What about the Geneva Conventions and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it. Without even addressing the issues at hand you first thought should be, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.” Bear in mind that this is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experiences gained on a minute by minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary which is a double No No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take “prisoners” because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. No good in Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same... Marines get hurt or die. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.

If you are a veteran then everything I have just written is self evident, if you are not a veteran than at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is not easy, and if you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for war crimes. Be advised, I am not talking to my readers, but if this post gets linked up, I want regular folks to get this message loud and clear. Froggy OUT.

oldsoldier wrote: It is amazing how individuals who have never seen the face of war are the first to judge. Question for all, how many of you have shot a teammate in an adrenaline haste moment? Not the same thing by imagine being under real fire for days, and in his shoes. Under the rules of combat which each american soldier/marine is aware, an enemy who in his judgement can inflict injury or death upon himself or his unit the soldier/marine can and is expected to use lethal force to eliminate such threat. Several examples of "sleepers" or booby trapped bodies made this situation just that a potential lethal threat to the marine and or his unit, and he eliminated that threat. Now my suggestion to keep this from happening again is to enlist the "volunteer" help of our news media to assist in these situations and armed with their "rule" book and the knowledge of how good these people are can assist the marines by themselves searching these bodies or wounded, knowing deep in their liberal hearts that they are safe from any threat of these unarmed iraqi insurgents, as they roll them over. Get a clue people

If he gets judged, it will be by the Uniformed Code of Military Justice.  I am sure that members of the Bush Administration know deep in their conservative, largely military service deferred hearts, how to place a positive spin on things while they are, and have been all of their lives, safe from harm. 

BARREL BREAK wrote: Homer J wrote: What these medieval-minded morons don't realize is that the longer they attack us, the longer we'll be in Iraq. wow, shows your ignorance, The longer we are there, the longer they attack us.

Not if we kill them all.

Badsmitty wrote: If he gets judged, it will be by the Uniformed Code of Military Justice.

The Uniformed Code?

:)

Clark Kent wrote: Badsmitty wrote: If he gets judged, it will be by the Uniformed Code of Military Justice.   The Uniformed Code? :)

HA!  Sorry, I want a constitutional amendment changing it to Uniformed.

tippy_182 wrote: *Insert biased anti-Bush comment here*

oh yeah because yuo know bush has somethign to do with it.

your gehy

untouchable555 wrote: Everyon here needs to think about what they would have done. I would have thought about 9-11 and then shot the mother er right in his face. All those  ers deserve what they get. The people that we are fighting killed innocent people on american soil in cold blood. They killed mothers fathers kids anywon in the world trade center without giving a   about who they hurt. For all you know the soldier who shot that guy knew somewon that got killed in this war or in one of the attacks, he got a shot at vengence and he took it. If somewon shoots at me, they are taking 2 to the chest and 1 in the face. Its ing stupid to consider this a crime. Tell the kid who doesnt have parents that its wrong to kill a terrorist.

Truly moronic. Those Iraqi fighters had nothing to do with 9-11. It's people like you that believed that they were linked to it that got us into this war in the first place. The killing was murder and was illegal by military standards. Hopefully the investigation finds out the facts. You should really get your facts straight before you go on a rampage.

Dune wrote: untouchable555 wrote: Everyon here needs to think about what they would have done. I would have thought about 9-11 and then shot the mother er right in his face. All those  ers deserve what they get. The people that we are fighting killed innocent people on american soil in cold blood. They killed mothers fathers kids anywon in the world trade center without giving a   about who they hurt. For all you know the soldier who shot that guy knew somewon that got killed in this war or in one of the attacks, he got a shot at vengence and he took it. If somewon shoots at me, they are taking 2 to the chest and 1 in the face. Its ing stupid to consider this a crime. Tell the kid who doesnt have parents that its wrong to kill a terrorist. Truly moronic. Those Iraqi fighters had nothing to do with 9-11. It's people like you that believed that they were linked to it that got us into this war in the first place. The killing was murder and was illegal by military standards. Hopefully the investigation finds out the facts. You should really get your facts straight before you go on a rampage.

Its not murder, its self defense, the guy shot at only god knows how many people, he shot to kill them, and if he had a chance, he probably would have killed the soldier

Dune wrote: So by that standards, it would be completely okay if an Iraqi soldier found a wounded UNARMED Marine and shot him twice in the face to kill him? Answer that.

These terrorists already kill unarmed women

Blue Hopper wrote: Dune wrote: So by that standards, it would be completely okay if an Iraqi soldier found a wounded UNARMED Marine and shot him twice in the face to kill him? Answer that. These terrorists already kill unarmed women

And sheep.  They better not touch our sheep.

Blue Hopper wrote: Dune wrote: So by that standards, it would be completely okay if an Iraqi soldier found a wounded UNARMED Marine and shot him twice in the face to kill him? Answer that. These terrorists already kill unarmed women

Correct.  That's how we know they are the bad guys.

I agree with untouchable, he just needs to get his facts straight

The Marine lost his friend before it happened from a body he thought was dead but turned out to be booby trapped.

Better safe than sorry.

Blue Hopper wrote: Dune wrote: So by that standards, it would be completely okay if an Iraqi soldier found a wounded UNARMED Marine and shot him twice in the face to kill him? Answer that. These terrorists already kill unarmed women

These Iraqi soldiers are not the same terrorists you speak of. How can you call them terrorists when they are fighting an invading force in their country? NOT THE SAME THING.

But that doesn't answer the question. So does it make it okay for them to kill an unarmed marine? I already know the answer, and it's very hypocritical.

untouchable555 wrote: Everyon here needs to think about what they would have done. I would have thought about 9-11 and then shot the mother er right in his face. All those  ers deserve what they get. The people that we are fighting killed innocent people on american soil in cold blood. They killed mothers fathers kids anywon in the world trade center without giving a   about who they hurt. For all you know the soldier who shot that guy knew somewon that got killed in this war or in one of the attacks, he got a shot at vengence and he took it. If somewon shoots at me, they are taking 2 to the chest and 1 in the face. Its ing stupid to consider this a crime. Tell the kid who doesnt have parents that its wrong to kill a terrorist.

You don't have time to think. Everything happens in a split second, and that's the ammount of time you have to make your decision, or have it made for you.

It's so incredibally easy for those of us who havent ever set foot in an actuall combat situation and aren't currently fighting this war to judge. It seems that everyone who isn't fighting knows exactly how things should happen and when. Fact of the matter is, it's not that simple at all. However I would give the benefit of the doubt to the forum that the majority of the posts made in this thread have had some thought put in to them.

Anyone who has seen the tape knows that the Marine in question shouted that the man was playing dead, that he could see his chest moving. Do you think he was playing dead thinking they would pass by? Maybe, but only hoping they would pass by his body just to blow him up with hidden explosives. Sappers have almost become as common place as helmets to our soldiers in this war. That's my two and a half cents on the matter.

Dune wrote: Blue Hopper wrote: Dune wrote: So by that standards, it would be completely okay if an Iraqi soldier found a wounded UNARMED Marine and shot him twice in the face to kill him? Answer that. These terrorists already kill unarmed women These Iraqi soldiers are not the same terrorists you speak of. How can you call them terrorists when they are fighting an invading force in their country? NOT THE SAME THING. But that doesn't answer the question. So does it make it okay for them to kill an unarmed marine? I already know the answer, and it's very hypocritical.

They are not Iraqi soldiers. We already eliminated them. Now we are fighting off insurgents alongside the Iraqi soldiers.

Dune wrote: These are still Iraqi soldiers, just not the ones WE put into power. Insurgents do not mean terrorists. I don't know what I would have done, shoot or not shoot. But I do know that it was an illegal killing, and should be held to the highest of importance with Military Law.

No it shouldn't. The Marine did his job and for all we know, he probably save the lives of the guys in his unit. The news say he was unarmed. You can't tell if he is armed or not. Just because you can't see a weapon doesn't mean it's not there. Who knows, the bad guy could have had a grenade underneath him or a pistol.

These are people who are taught to die a Martyr. If they have an oppurtunity to kill a few Marines, they will not hesitate.

Like I said, better safe than sorry.