Physics>*
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=118807
Printed Date: 25 February 2026 at 9:55pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Physics>*
Posted By: FROG MAN
Subject: Physics>*
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:17pm
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well after getting into an agrument with some 12 year olds in the marker gallery some guy asked me to "prove" him wrong i was doing some physics home work and i did i proved that the fastest you can shoot on a gravity feed hopper (revvy/egg) is 7 bps. and im going to hook up a newton scale to a rip drive and find out the force they aply to the paint and use physics to see actully how fast they can go. if you wanna see the argument is in the gallery under the title g7 on page 4. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Replies:
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:34pm
| uhh.. fastest you can go with gravity feed is 13bps, might wanna check your math. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:34pm
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might wanna not qestion me ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
adrenalinejunky wrote:Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:38pm
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well lets see, gravity is 9.81m/s2 if a paintball is .688 inches that means its 17.47 mm or 0.01747meters Vf2'=Vi2'+2at so for a pb gun to shoot 30 bps the balls would have to drop at .5m/s .52'=0+2x9.81xT .52'=19.62 x T .52'/19.62=T 0.15=T so it would take 1.05 seconds to fire 7 paintballs or 7bps. and i didnt calculater dwell or blowback with would make this even less. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: patrick
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:38pm
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check your math. i held 11 bps over a radarchron with my classic RT mag and revvy. ------------- |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:39pm
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2' means squared. im to lazy to make it small. im just trying to say that 7 bps in much, MUCH faster then you ppl think it is. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: Solipsism
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:40pm
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I can pull wayyyyy faster than 7bps on my Viking with Revvy.
Try again. -------------  http://solipsism.ath.cx - solipsism.ath.cx |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:41pm
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i love how you guys arnt even trying to prove me wrong. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: munky!
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:45pm
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ew, your one of those 123244= X guys.... X= 909809123 is way better... ------------- Forumers ageinst stuff that sucks |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:46pm
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that sounds a little red necky to me??? ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:48pm
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heh, i'm sorry, but people far better at this physics thing than you have calculated it to 13, and thats been proven empyricaly.
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Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:51pm
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i could see it being done. because when i calculated Vf or final velocity i used an equation with 30 bps as my constant. if i was to use a smaller number i bet i could get Vf to equal higher witch would result in a higher total bps, BUT my point is still proven that gravity feed is from 7-13 bps ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:52pm
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hm... another forumer to add to the procarbinefreak has no respect for you because you are a douche list.
bwwaaahahahhaha... i just read your last post... your point of gravity feed being 7-13... your point was it was 7. pwned.... |
Posted By: Solipsism
Date Posted: 16 November 2004 at 11:58pm
Nice job trying to get out of that one. ------------- http://solipsism.ath.cx - solipsism.ath.cx |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:00am
HAHAHA, ya i noticed that i could change my math around and get a higher bps, but dosnt it get you mad when ppl say there egg can shoot 20 bps?? ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:00am
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thats not what you were saying at all... you said you proved it was 7bps....
ok, here goes... s=ViT - 1/2AT^2 s= .01748 Vi = 0 so the first figure drops out. A= 9.81 .5 * 9.81 * T^2 = .01748 .01748/4.905= t^2 T=.06 the time it takes to bolt to cycle makes up for the difference in 13 * .06 and 1 second. i just don't want to figure it out. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:01am
actully that was my point retard ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:01am
evolution is centrifugal force fed, not gravity fed. |
Posted By: The Guy
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:02am
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ok fine, you want me to mess with your math??? You mentioned in your introduction that .688 is equal to 17.47 mm, Yet afetr looking through your math I see that the number is never mentioned throughout the entire equation. I've never known how to measure or been THAT good at math. It might help people if you actually explained your equations rather than throwing a bunch of number up and announcing that you are smarter than everyone because we can't prove you are wrong. ------------- http://www.anomationanodizing.com - My Site 
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Posted By: patrick
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:02am
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heh. that wasn't what you said in the first post... ------------- |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:02am
umm, how was that quote correcting him? it was confirming what he was saying... go easy on the insults buddy. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:03am
actully its not. the wheel just moves the balls into the feed, there is actully no pressure on the balls sinse it gos by eyes any way. the wheel just allows more balls to get to get ligned up faster ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: [Mr. Smith]
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:03am
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pro carbine freak go die, you are such an idiot. you have to be like, comander retard. just shut up with your stupid reasons. and ps if that avatar is a picture of you, get a god damn hair cut. ------------- Proud owner of an ACE'd 2K3 matrix  |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:04am
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because i used that to find Vf. and i didnt show the equation for that. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:04am
| yes... it is, the way the evolution is set up it slingshots the ball into the feed neck, thus, centrifugal force... |
Posted By: kiolia
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:05am
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actually it's faster than that if you have an "ideal" bolt dwell of zero. here's my calculations. and I'm an engineering major.
bps = 1/t Hz where t=total time to fire one ball which is (time to chamber ball) + (bolt dwell) time for one ball to fall .68 inches (from above bolt to bottom of chamber): solve y1=y0+V0*t+0.5*a*t^2 for t. V0=0 and y0=.68 and y1=0 and a=-32.2 (ft/s^2)*(12 in/ft) so sqrt((y1-y0)/(.5*a))=sqrt((0-.68)/(.5*-32.2*12))=t=.05933 seconds for the ball to chamber. Now comes the ideal versus practical application. if your bolt dwell is "zero"...IE the next ball can chamber as soon as the last one drops, then bps=1/t=1/.05933=16.86 bps. however, bolt dwell is not zero. A reasonable bolt dwell for most blowbacks like a spyder or tippmann would be about 10 milliseconds or .01 seconds. Therefore a more realistic bps would be 1/(t+dwell) = 1/(.05933+.01) = 14.4 bps.   
math and physics ARE good for something! ------------- http://www.kiolia.com/shadowfolk"> 
s'right, I do a webcomic and I update it like every two months. go go! |
Posted By: NotDaveEllis
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:06am
Someone offended your bf? |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:07am
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slingshots into other balls. all the momentun picked up by "slingshot" is lost by the 90* turn any way. but i gotta go, so if you want to argue, you can among your selves ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:07am
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actually... next week i'm going to get my hair cut... and that picture is quite old. is someone just mad that i'm pointing out how immature you two are... do you really have to rub high school physics in our faces... i'll make sure to come to you if i need help in my physics next term... and frog man... you said in your original post that gravity could feed 7 bps... you never mentioned it being 7-13. in fact you never mentioned any other number higher than 7. just letting you know... |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:07am
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i dont get that cuz you used inches. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:07am
heh, imagine that, we both got the same answer properly applied physics > * poorly applied physics > Frog Man (just giving you a hard time... no offense meant) |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:09am
you do know what centrifugal force is right? its a soft 90 degree turn, thus, not all momentum is lost.... |
Posted By: [Mr. Smith]
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:10am
yeah, thats it..... ------------- Proud owner of an ACE'd 2K3 matrix |
Posted By: kiolia
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:12am
------------- http://www.kiolia.com/shadowfolk">
s'right, I do a webcomic and I update it like every two months. go go! |
Posted By: The Guy
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:15am
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So basically Frogman wanted to make himself sound smart so he posted a
BS equation (or a poorly figured one), and then refused to listen or
rebut any arguement that contradicted his. A real intelligent person
would realize their mistakes and use them to better future equations. Therefor it can be assumed, Frogman sucks at physics and always will suck at physics. ------------- http://www.anomationanodizing.com - My Site
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Posted By: Mehs
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:20am
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Unf, this thread really sucks.
------------- [IMG]http://i27.tinypic.com/1538fbc.jpg"> Squeeze Box ☣ |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 12:23am
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This thread cracked me up... Even before Kiolia showed up and pwned the physics, all we had to do watch let Froggy post and self-destruct all on his own... :) |
Posted By: Kevin Z
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 1:25am
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Eh I have my E-bolt set at 100mS pulse seperation. I used an Oscilloscope to time the pulses at the valve. Since you are so grand at math, I don't need to translate that into BPS do I. My setup with a Reloader, does just fine. Your 7BPS max equation is faulty. ------------- United States Marine Corps.... When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight! Just say NO to junk mods |
Posted By: Koolit32
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 5:57am
As opposed to using COCAINE? |
Posted By: Koolit32
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 5:58am
*Claps* |
Posted By: Enos Spank
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 6:16am
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FROG MAN, you should have waiting a couple more marking periods into physics before you started to act like you knew everything.
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Posted By: [Mr. Smith]
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 5:40pm
for the kid who just stepped out of the closet last week, there is two systems of measurment, imperial system, and the metric system. inches is imperial. in physics, imperial system is alot diferent because all your numbers arent as easy to change because all your inches and feet arent in 10's like in metric. ------------- Proud owner of an ACE'd 2K3 matrix |
Posted By: Frozen
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 5:50pm
| I think it's safe to say that FROG MAN is stupid. Actually, I came to that conclusion several weeks ago in the Smartest Forumers thread. |
Posted By: Trogdor2
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 6:04pm
| I don't do math... |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 6:09pm
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Sombody just got to horizontal motion in highschool physics class. ------------- 
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Posted By: [Mr. Smith]
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 6:10pm
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kinematics you mean? ------------- Proud owner of an ACE'd 2K3 matrix |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 6:16pm
Yes, Kinematics. You were paying attention in class some of the time apparently. -------------
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Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 6:24pm
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ill and try and do this for the ppl who dont get it READ THIS ITS SIMPLE if a ball has to fall .688 inches or 0.0174 meters gravity is 9.81 m/s^2 or 9.81 meters a second per second sooo acceleration=9.81 Vi, Intial velocity=0 Vf, Final velocity=? (solving for Distance= 0.0174 Vf^2=Vi^2+2xAxD letts solve for final velocity (so we can find Time) Vf^2=0+2x9.81x0.0174 Vf^2= .341388 find the square root of that FINAL VELOCITY = 0.58 meters a second. Vf=Vi+at Vf=.58 Vi=0 A=9.81 T=? (solving for) .58=0+9.81xT .58/9.81=T 0.059=T so it takes 0.05 seconds for a ball to drop into a breach so that means the max bps is 20???????? i did that proparly even my physics teacher said it was right. so any I WAS WRONG SORRY!!!!!!!!! i was in a pissy mood and sorry for every who i made mad. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: [Mr. Smith]
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 6:25pm
------------- Proud owner of an ACE'd 2K3 matrix |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 10:02pm
very good, except you round .059 to .06 not .05 |
Posted By: Koolit32
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 10:17pm
Like I care. There are equations to convert to anything you'd like, so "I DUN NO WUT INCHES R" is no excuse. Kiolia provided all the necessary equations to get the thing done. Stepping out of the closet? Are people that aren't in whatever elistist bastard grade you are in automatically become homosexual? All the cool kids are friends with FROG MAN. |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 10:27pm
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frog man, you do not need to solve for final velocity to find time, you dumbass...
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 10:35pm
I like coming out of closets after hiding in them, especially if it suprises the couple I am watching.  ------------- 
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Posted By: Snipa69
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 11:35pm
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Hades, you make me chuckle. What I know is math is barely permicable in paintball. chrono your gun with it sure but the hopper speed thing is just not right. Logically thinking, yes, 7 bps would make sense in a mathmatical sense. But explain why i still use a gravity fed hopper with my RT and have yet to chop a ball? ------------- http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/857/sig9ac6cs1mj.jpg - |
Posted By: [Mr. Smith]
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 11:43pm
What the hell are you talking about? No where did i call you homo sexual. When i say just stepped out of the closet, it means you are stupid, like you havent been around for very long becuse you've been in a closet, and because of this, you are stupid. thank you for further proving me right, you really did just step out of the closet. ------------- Proud owner of an ACE'd 2K3 matrix |
Posted By: Flogging_molly
Date Posted: 17 November 2004 at 11:49pm
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sadest thread ever ------------- 
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Posted By: bigmike102
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 4:23pm
I got 10 bps on my buddy's timmy with a stock hopper and started chopping after that. so w/e ------------- . |
wow.....Posted By: matt06
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 4:52pm
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soo..you posted a incorrect equation, then got mad at us for telliung you that you were wrong....
and then, you changed your entire stance on the issue to 7-13 bps instead of 7 bps... you suck... also...doesnt gravitational pull differ a tiny bit depending on the sea level of where you live? that could also affect how fast you can rip on a PB gun... o, and wouldnt paintballs all piled up inside a hopper result in more downward force being exerted on the bottom paintballs entering the feed neck? just a couple observations..i have no physics experience..or anything like that... |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 5:01pm
| Mr. Smith... as far as i know... "coming out of the closet" has been used for when homosexuals come out and are open about it... I have never heard that phrase used in the context that you describe it as. |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 5:09pm
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well, since when is an egg a gravity feed? an egg has a wheel to force the balls into the breech. Also, how can you think an egg can only do 7 bps? thats absurd! It is capable over 15+ by sound testing (use of a microphone and a program. silly canadian |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 5:14pm
| actually WGP guy... a revvy is gravity feed. it doesn't push the balls into the breech. it uses gravity to get the balls in the breech... the paddle is just in there to make sure they get to the feedneck. |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 5:17pm
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fixed, I get your point... |
Posted By: HGROBERTS
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 5:27pm
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Posted By: kiolia
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 5:27pm
------------- http://www.kiolia.com/shadowfolk">
s'right, I do a webcomic and I update it like every two months. go go! |
Posted By: matt06
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 5:43pm
| ^^ fair enough...i didnt expect to be correct, i was just thinking out loud.... |
Posted By: LiT uP
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 9:20pm
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yea I dont consider a evo gravity feed. The balls are foced in so that doesnt make them gravity feed. ------------- 
Black DM4 tadao st trigger 68/4500 pe tank reloader B |
Posted By: RfUiLreZ
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 10:07pm
PWNED. I guess you need to get a new physics teacher. |
Posted By: [Mr. Smith]
Date Posted: 18 November 2004 at 11:10pm
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ok, you have been pissing me off, and i have been pissing you off, the arguing is not gonna stop. so lets just call a truce. and just let this thread die ------------- Proud owner of an ACE'd 2K3 matrix |
Posted By: chs61224
Date Posted: 19 November 2004 at 3:32am
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wow i think frog man and JJ are probably the dumbest people on this forum. ------------- All about the Snow. |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 19 November 2004 at 7:49am
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Christ..I hate physics..worst class ever..I got a test in 32 minutes..I'm screwed..All that stuff is theoretecical anyway..it's not all that easy in real life..too many different factors to consider. -------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 19 November 2004 at 8:17am
i'm not necessarily pissed off... just trying to correct some of your mistakes... 
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