The attack at Pearl Harbor occured 63 years ago today.

This thread is dedicated to the people who died because of that attack.

Discuss.

matt06 wrote: sweet sweet revenge

Yeah the japenese used how many thousands of planes to kill 3,000 americans.  Americans used one plane to kill how many japenese in hiroshima

sweet revenge indeed

Multi-Colored J wrote: I thank all the veterans that helped make this world a better place.

Me too.  Without them this forum might be in Japaneese or German or even Russian

*(New) Fnd Glry wrote: Gotpaint92 wrote: matt06 wrote: sweet sweet revenge Yeah the japenese used how many thousands of planes to kill 3,000 americans.  Americans used one plane to kill how many japenese in hiroshima sweet revenge indeed actually they used little over 300 planes, and I know the Enola G ay did a hefty amount of damage, but you forget about our first retaliation with those B-52s. we lost, like, 17 B-52s and really only damaged a portion of I think it was Tokyo *edit*lol, the language blocker busted me for saying the name of the plane that dropped the first nuke.

That was the whole point though. To do minimal damage, but right through the heart of there country. As for you EvilChicken guy, I hope a monkey rips off your head and poos down your throught while he has the runs...... really really nasty runs. Salute to those who fell and fought in WW2 and all other wars. God be with those fallen and even the survivors like the man mentioned on TV

It's a shame. Pearl Harbor was important for one very large reason.  It is the catalest that brought the U.S. into perhaps the defining event of the Twentieth Centruy.

None of you understand the world stage that was set before the war.  Imagine us being a power like Canada is today.  Canada is not a third world country, it is modern and productive...and has a military but not an overly strong one.  So imagine us like Canada and have Britian, France, and Germany weild the power that we enjoy today.  The Second World War changed all that and made the US what we are today.  In World War I we were almost a footnote.  Sure the Germans worried about us but only because of the number of men we could throw into the battle...not because of our quality or troops or equipment...heck...we used French Aircraft because US military aircraft stunk in WWI...and that was less than 25 years before the attack on Pearl Harbor. 

Heck, on December 7th, 1941 our best aircraft was the P-40 Warhawk.  It was outclassed, easily, by the Zero, the Spitfire, and the ME-109.  Our best bomber was the B-17D...a severly underarmed bomber of the time and outclassed by British Lancasters and such.  (It wasn't until the B-17E and then F and G models that the B-17 became the high quality bomber that it was known to be.  The D model we had at the time lacked a Tail gun position and was outfitted primarily with .30 caliber machine guns.  The poliferation of .50 cals didn't occure until the E model.)  Our tanks had thin armor, gas engines (that went up like a torch when hit), and small main guns.  The Lee and Grant tanks were the only ones that had a gun of any worth and these were 75mm guns mounted in a hull position giving limited fields of fire.

When the war ended, we had the best prop driven fighter in the world, the P-51.  Work was ongoing with our P-80 Shooting Star which proved to be superior to the German ME-262 even if it was lagging in development. We had the best long range bomber in the world with the B-29 Superfortress and it carried the most dangerous weapon the world had ever seen, the atomic bomb.  We had the General Pershing tank, a heavy tank that could match the German Panthers and Tigers for protection and firepower and would later be further developed into the M60 Patton MBT.  We had the worlds most powerful Navy...eclipsing even Britian which had held that distinction before the war.  World War II...starting with the event of Pearl Harbor...changed this country like no other event ever had.

But that's not why we rememeber it.  To the person who said it was their job to do this and thus not a big deal...you're right.  That is how they view it too.  But while you may not consider them heros, that is where you are wrong.  Those that live today will tell you they are not the heros.  No, they will tell you its the bomber crew that was pinned to the inside of their aircraft while it spun out of control from five miles high knowing they were going to die and not able to do a thing about it...it was the soldier who lay on Omaha beach using his hand to try and keep his intestines in his stomach as he slowly bleed away...it was the submariner trapped in a sealed metal tube counting the minutes until his compartment was filled with the onrushing water around him...it was the flight mechanic on board the aircraft carrier coverd in burning oil screaming in agony while bobing in the water only to meet his doom by being drug to the deeps by the sharks of the south pacific...it was the marine on Iwo Jima covered in the mess that had been his best friend two seconds before as he realizes the next shell is for him...it was the various P.O.W.s who starved and died in the numberous prison camps both in Germany and Japan.  The heros are all their friends that never came home.  THOSE boys ARE heros. 

And boys there were.  16, 17, 18, 19 year old boys off to war.  Next time you watch one of those documentaries look at those faces and realize most are just out of high school.  While you guys worry about college exams, Friday night activities, and who you're dating this week remember that these guys worried about not getting shot while taking leak...lived in cold, wet foxholes night after night, and that to them a shower and clean socks were as luxurious as an Escalade rolling on Dubs.

And why did they do this?  It wasn't glory...it wasn't to be heros...it wasn't because they liked it...it wasn't because of the pay or that being in uniform attracted the ladies...they did it because it was the right thing to do and because they didn't want to let their buddies down.  There are thousands of stories of guys that were scared...peed their pants...couldn't move...threw up repetitively...all because of nerves who STILL went on and did their duty because if they didn't their buddies might be killed because of it. And that, to me, is why they are all heros in my book. 

Do yourself a favor some day and go listen to their war stories.  After 60 + years there are far fewer of them around to hear.  But when you do, listen carefully.  You'll never hear the terror in their voice...but you will hear the emotion.  After 60 years most of these men still define their lives by what happened to them over the course of three or four years when they were just young men.  Jobs, families, and all the rest while precious, do not mean as much to them as the friendships they formed under fire. If you don't come away at the very least being a bit humbled by these men...a bit foolish for thinking how big of a deal you make out of the little problems you have in your life...well...I'd question whether or not you're human.

That's it...rant over.

http://www.b17queenofthesky.com - http://www.b17queenofthesky.com

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*(New) Fnd Glry wrote: Gotpaint92 wrote: matt06 wrote: sweet sweet revenge Yeah the japenese used how many thousands of planes to kill 3,000 americans.  Americans used one plane to kill how many japenese in hiroshima sweet revenge indeed actually they used little over 300 planes, and I know the Enola G ay did a hefty amount of damage, but you forget about our first retaliation with those B-52s. we lost, like, 17 B-52s and really only damaged a portion of I think it was Tokyo *edit*lol, the language blocker busted me for saying the name of the plane that dropped the first nuke.

Woah..... we had stealth bombers in WWII!!!!!!!

^^sacrasim^^

The Superfortress was the B-29...the two most famous are Enola mailto:G@y - G@y that dropped the first atomic bomb Fat Man on Hiroshima on August 6th, 1945 and Boc's Car which dropped the second atomic bomb Little Boy on Nakasaki on August 9th, 1945. It is important to note that the devistation caused by the bomb was not the main driving force that resulted in Japan's surrender. Something like 84% of Hiroshima was destroyed in its blast while 79% of Nakasaki was destroyed by the atomic bomb attack against it.  In comparison, 97% of Tokyo was destroyed by firebombing.  A firestorm raged through the city that killed civilians in their bunkers by sucking the oxygen out of their shelters and aphyxiating (sp?) them.  What made the Atomic bomb detonations so compelling was that they were carried out by lone bombers and their effects on the population after the explosion.

Doolittle Raid was done by B-25 Mitchell medium bombers flying off the carrier Hornet.  Most managed to make it to occupied China where some of the aviators were captured by the Japanese.  Doolittle himself lead the raid and managed to make it home.  The raid was a huge boon to American moral after the defeats suffered at Pearl Harbor, the Phillipenes, and Baatan. Little damage was done to Tokyo but the strike to Japanese pride was enormous.  Like Britian, they believed their island home was safe from attack.

The B-52, STRATOfortress, is not, by any means, stealthy.

And yes, there were almost "stealth" aircraft in WWII.  The Germans were working on a flying wing not unlike the present day B-2.  The B-2's ancestor, the Northrop Flying Wing, was designed as a concept aircraft for the Northrop Flying Wing Bomber.  This experimental bomber was originally propelled by pusher prop engines.  Later versions of the experimental airframe were equipped with jet engines as they became available.  The German flying wing and the Northrop wings all would have shown some "Stealth" capabilities even if it wasn't on par with the B-2 and other modern day stealth aircraft. The main reason why these flying wing programs were scraped was stability issues.  The planes were inherently unstable to fly.  With fly by wire flight computer systems, the flying wing concept was reborn and proves to be a very advanced aircraft design that was way ahead of its time.