Aight, I have what I think should be a pretty interesting thread.  I know many people are biased against George Bush because they don't agree with the war or whatever.  But I have to ask, other than the war, what other problems do people have with President Bush? Personally I support him and believe he is doing a great job, but I know most people, (well not most people cuz he did win the popular vote) but a vast amount of people don't think so. So what exactly... other than the war in Iraq... do you not like about him?

By the way... Hook'em Horns

Get ready OU the winning streak over UT is over this fall!!!

I can't speak for others, but personally I don't like GW personally.  I have never met him (and so I might be completely wrong), but based on the many hours of TV and radio coverage I have observed, he strikes me as arrogant, closed-minded, non-introspective, rude, and generally somebody I would not like to have over for dinner.

Policies aside, on a strictly personal level I find him distasteful.

EDIT - I remembered the word I was looking for to describe him:  Entitled.

Fatman Lash wrote: They dont like him because hes conservative and Liberals dont like outspoken conservatives who are actually human.

^^^^^^^^^  Idiotic statement (in case you couldn't tell).

NiQ-Toto wrote: How about because he cheated to win the popular vote? Those polling stations were rigged, everyone knew it, no one did anything.

That's my biggest problem with the party. They're dirty fighters. The war pretty much is the worst thing he's done beside ship my future to other countries. I must say he is pretty honest in some situations. He actually does believe that God wants him to be president. Whether that makes him a nutjob or not it's still honesty.

tippy_182 wrote: Whats wrong with the No child left behind Act? I'm sure many parents support it.

Unfunded mandate.

Women's underpants would count in Bush's favor, as that would indicate that he might be more open-minded than I give him credit for...

NiQ-Toto wrote: How about because he cheated to win the popular vote? Those polling stations were rigged, everyone knew it, no one did anything.

How long did it take you to pull that "brilliant" statement out of your *edited*

Moron!!

Yes, there were some questions about polling places in Ohio and Michigan, and Democrats were quick to send investigators to those places to dig up the dirt. Unfortunately for them, the dirt seemed to come from the wrong side of the yard, and so the investigations were quietly ended.

I don't suppose anyone remembers the crackhead hire by the NAACP to register Democrat voters like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck? Or the large numbers of retirees who were registered to vote in multiple states?

If Kerry had won, one could successfully argue that the election had been stolen.

There will never be a president that is universally liked. Bush has his strong and weak points, but overall, he is the right man at this time, and the election reinforced that point.

There are many who hate Bush, but what is the point? Those things that can't be helped must be endured.

If the Republican party is the party of the rich, who does the Democrat party represent? There are more millionaires in the Democrat party than in the Republican party.

Now all we can do is wait for '08. Who do you think will run then? Hillary? And against who? **edited** Cheney will not run, so maybe Rudy Giulliani? Or Colin Powell?

There is no way Hillary can beat either of these guys, so someone had better reach deep into their hat and find a good candidate next time round.

The '08 election will be an interesting one.

While not politically astute, I can discern that Hillary had wished against wish that Kerry lost the election in '04, in case she decided to run. If Kerry HAD won, there's no way she'd have been elected over an incumbant democrat. I'm willing to bet that if asked, her and slick Willy had their lines in the Bush pool.

I cannot stand that conniving opportunist wench. I'd back Saddam if he was running against her.

Reb Cpl wrote: The '08 election will be an interesting one. While not politically astute, I can discern that Hillary had wished against wish that Kerry lost the election in '04, in case she decided to run. If Kerry HAD won, there's no way she'd have been elected over an incumbant democrat. I'm willing to bet that if asked, her and slick Willy had their lines in the Bush pool. I cannot stand that conniving opportunist wench. I'd back Saddam if he was running against her.

Agreed, with the exception of the Saddam comment, but it would be close.

I have a theory. If Hilary runs in 2008 (and you know she will), presuming she wins the Dem. nomination, I could see a scenario where the Republicans nominate Condoleezza Rice.
If a female actually won their party's nomination, they would recieve HUGE backing from every women's rights and minority support organization in America, as well as probably having somewhere in the neighborhood of %80+ of the female population's votes. I could also see a number of men voting for the cantidate just because it's never been done before.

IF Hilary gets nominated, the Republican party would be hard pressed to effeciently present another male conservative as thier cantidate, especcially with all the anti-Bush sentiment that seems to be floating around.

Your thoughts?

Definitely Hillary in 08.  I doubt she gets nominated, though.  Russ Feingold has thrown out feelers for 08 as well, and people are talking about Barack Obama, although 08 seems a little early for him.  John Edwards, of course, is also a likely candidate.

On the Republican side, we have all heard about Newt, and speculated about Jeb.  Does anybody know anything definite?  I hadn't heard about Rice as a potential, but McCain is always mentioned.

A McCain-Feingold race would be amusing.

:)

Anybody heard anything else?

First of all, I do like the man on a personal level. I have never met him but he does come off to be an arrogent idiot. Second, what about the economy. the unemployment rate has skyrocketed since he took office, He's made our country into the laughing stock of the world, He has made our country a FINACIAL LIABILITY to the rest of the world. He enters office with a surplus and now we are TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. He has shed innocent blood. The patriot act...Maybe the employment rate has gone up buts its because there are so many people "working" in Iraq (**GOD BLESS THEM**).  On the Iraq subject, can some PLEASE point out the link between Al Quida and Iraq, besides the amount of OIL. Sure we got Saddam, he wasn't a threat...the real threat Usama, is still running loose because most of our troops are in Iraq trying to get the country under control.

My list can go on and on, but I do not have the time to go through them all. Yes I know there are people who like him and thats your thing. I do not like him. My last point I will bring up will probabally raise the biggest countroversy. Bush, is a TERRORIST. I wrote a paper on the subject and he fits the definition the GOVERNMENT DEFINED. He should be tried as a terrorist.

Now that I have surely steamed some of you, or just plain pissed you off I will say that I love my country, I just dispise the leader.

I also am against the war, but I still support our troops. GOD BLESS THEM. Your commitment to this country is god-like, and every one shall be eternally greatfull.

Well, I've finished my rant...

Errr.....  Right.

Look kid, I don't know where you're getting your "facts" from but you need to go have another look.

The only thing in that post that could be counted as being somewhere close to reality is the Patriot Act.

Does anyone have any toilet paper for this young man?

Clark Kent wrote: and people are talking about Barack Obama, although 08 seems a little early for him.

I would (and in '08 can ) vote for Obama for president. I would also vote for McCain for president.

I would vote Obama over McCain though.

Have you not seen the numbers on the national debt? We are $7.6 TRILLION in debt ( http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm - http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm ). If you don't think that is a liability to the world, then what is? Where does that money come from? Other countries...

And I am wrong to not see a LINK between Al Quida and Iraq? If you see one please, by all means, point it out to me, and many others because I don't see it...and are you saying that supporting the troops is **edited**, as you seem to infer?

And don't call me kid...

You can't teach and idiot, but you can make him president

I find this all very amusing.

I am also comforted that most of you cannot vote yet.  It is still not to late to actually pay attention in history class.  The most important thing you can do in school is to learn to think for yourself.  If you let others think for you, then you really don't have much of an opinion, do you? 

Tae Kwon Do wrote: Clark Kent wrote: and people are talking about Barack Obama, although 08 seems a little early for him.  I would (and in '08 can ) vote for Obama for president. I would also vote for McCain for president.

Another up-and-comer to watch is Bobby Jindal.  He's a little further away, but is definitely going places as well.

Squirrel: America's National Debt has been in the trillions for close to a century. We DID NOT have a surplus before Bush's term, and our eceonomy, (in addition to being on the rise) is the envy of the entire world.Economicly speaking, we are the most powerful nation on this planet, and have been for years.

The Unemployment rate is known universally to be a laging indicator in reguards to the state of the economy. Meaning the unemployment rates now are the result of things that happend 2-5 years ago. The fact the employment is on the rise has almost nothing to do with our Men and Women in the armed forces, it is being caused by Bush's economic policies.
The recent recession was primarily caused by 9/11 and the actions of the Clinton administration, which arwe both things the current administration has little control over.

As you said, the list could go on, but I think the point has been made.

I'm leaving now.

RockinPorsche wrote: I don't like Bush because he put the country in the biggest financial deficit we've ever seen. What about going into a war, and having the single largest terrorist attack on U.S. soil occur do you not understand?  The manufacture of ammunition, and the fuel that we use getting everything over-seas costs a LOT of money. And this was during war time. Look at the past, war time got us out of finacial trouble, no into it. The manufacture of rifles, ammunition, kevlar, armored and unarmored vehichles is expensive.  Sometimes this money goes to contractors, which boosts the economy.  All of this money to pay for these items comes from the government.  It boosts the economy, not the government's coffers dude. I also don't like that he's using his religion as a basis for his ideas on how to run the country, not everyone is catholic like you, George. Didn't know he was Catholic.  Some like the country being run on Christian principles, others don't.  It's a matter of opinion... so I'll stay out of this one. Another thing I don't like is how divided he made this country. If he really loved America, I think he should atleast try to please everyone, instead of dividing us. He didn't really divide us.  The country being 'divided' is mostly the cause of the Democratic propoganda that they like to spew out of every orriface in their bodies.

Psych0Squirrel wrote: First of all, I do like the man on a personal level. I have never met him but he does come off to be an arrogent idiot. Second, what about the economy. the unemployment rate has skyrocketed since he took office, He's made our country into the laughing stock of the world, He has made our country a FINACIAL LIABILITY to the rest of the world. First off, the unemployment rate skyrocketed because of the terrorist attacks on the world trade centers. He enters office with a surplus and now we are TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. The manufacture of rifles, ammunition, kevlar, armored and unarmored vehichles is expensive. The economy goes in the toilet, which means less tax revenue.  Why did the economy go in the toilet?  Those gaping holes in our National Security left by clinton. He has shed innocent blood. The patriot act...Maybe the employment rate has gone up buts its because there are so many people "working" in Iraq (**GOD BLESS THEM**).  All the people in Iraq...  That bush sent over there?  zOmG1!1!!!1!  If I wanted to I could now say that he has helped the economy by going to war with Iraq.  Shed innocent blood, could you elaborate on that? On the Iraq subject, can some PLEASE point out the link between Al Quida and Iraq, besides the amount of OIL. There were terrorist training camps.  I don't give a damn who they belong to though. Sure we got Saddam, he wasn't a threat...the real threat Usama, is still running loose because most of our troops are in Iraq trying to get the country under control. Of course.  The dictator of a country who is trying to spew information about how he has WMDs is not a threat.  What happens when we kill [SIC] Usama?  Someone else takes the reigns? My list can go on and on, but I do not have the time to go through them all. Yes I know there are people who like him and thats your thing. I do not like him. My last point I will bring up will probabally raise the biggest countroversy. Bush, is a TERRORIST. I wrote a paper on the subject and he fits the definition the GOVERNMENT DEFINED. He should be tried as a terrorist. Let's see that defenition. Now that I have surely steamed some of you, or just plain pissed you off I will say that I love my country, I just dispise the leader. I also am against the war, but I still support our troops. GOD BLESS THEM. Your commitment to this country is god-like, and every one shall be eternally greatfull. Well, I've finished my rant... LEIK!  ME TOO!!

Ok.

I'm going to hide in my bomb shelter now.  : )

Slimz.357 wrote: Squirrel: America's National Debt has been in the trillions for close to a century. We DID NOT have a surplus before Bush's term, and our eceonomy, (in addition to being on the rise) is the envy of the entire world.Economicly speaking, we are the most powerful nation on this planet, and have been for years. The Unemployment rate is known universally to be a laging indicator in reguards to the state of the economy. Meaning the unemployment rates now are the result of things that happend 2-5 years ago. The fact the employment is on the rise has almost nothing to do with our Men and Women in the armed forces, it is being caused by Bush's economic policies. The recent recession was primarily caused by 9/11 and the actions of the Clinton administration, which arwe both things the current administration has little control over. As you said, the list could go on, but I think the point has been made. I'm leaving now.

Man, you said that so much better than I ever could have

Psych0Squirrel wrote: Have you not seen the numbers on the national debt? We are $7.6 TRILLION in debt ( http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm - http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm ). If you don't think that is a liability to the world, then what is? Where does that money come from? Other countries... And don't call me kid...

Ok kid, so how does that money come from other countries?  I thought it came from taxes.

E-98 wrote: Ok kid, so how does that money come from other countries?  I thought it came from taxes.

If it came through taxes, it wouldn't be debt.

Debt is borrowed money.  The US government borrows money by way way of treasury bonds, which are bought by whomever (Americans and foreigners, but mostly corporate entities), and by direct loans from other governments.

Hey, before anybody says that the tax breaks are for the rich, you are definitely wrong. Ever since Bush lowered taxes it took off about one thousand of my fathers tax. My father owns his own business and each tax year, pays about $30,000. That's probably 5 to 10 times more than most of you. Also, when it comes time to get a refund. What refund? hey gets about $600 dollars back. To hear you guys (liberals) complaining, makes me angry. Why don't you stop complaining and start working because millions of welfares depend on you.  

Well everyone knows that you dont feel the effects of a president untill after his first term. Bush's first term was just the after shock of Clinton's last. Maybe if he would have thought about the nation more than getting his (u know what) sucked by Monica then we wouldnt have had problems.

Most idiotic statement in a century...  "I did not have sex with that woman!!"

Given the thread, it is perhaps not surprising, but still saddening to see how quickly we are backsliding into partisan bickering.

The problem with debates is no one will ever change the way they see it. Alot of people are saying things based on what there parents tell them. "Our country is in debt and its Bushs fault"

........... You sure about that? I remember being in debt while Clinton was in office and no one complained then. The reason people bash on Liberals is because they find something new to complain about every day. Were in debt, were at war, Clintons sleeping around again, Bush is a hick, I wear womens underwear................. When will it end. Show me one Liberal who doesnt complain about a conservative and Ill give him a hug

Fatman Lash wrote: The problem with debates is no one will ever change the way they see it.

That's only true for narrow-minded fools.  I, for one, change my mind frequently in response to new information and good discussion.

Alot of people are saying things based on what there parents tell them.

Certainly true.

"Our country is in debt and its Bushs fault" ........... You sure about that? I remember being in debt while Clinton was in office and no one complained then.

I think the point being that we had a budget surplus during Clinton's term, and now we have a record deficit.  Under Clinton we were reducing the debt; now we are increasing the debt.  Many people confuse annual surplus/deficit numbers with overall debt numbers.

The reason people bash on Liberals is because they find something new to complain about every day. Were in debt, were at war, Clintons sleeping around again, Bush is a hick, I wear womens underwear................. When will it end.

Much like conservatives complain all the time, just like you are doing right now.  Complaining is the exclusive domain of no single group.  During the Clinton years Replublicans were complaining non-stop - heck, Replublicans are STILL complaining about Clinton, several years later.

Show me one Liberal who doesnt complain about a conservative and Ill give him a hug

The levels of partisan prejudice in that statement are staggering.

Most of those things are viable things to complain about. We are at war. At war with the wrong country, for that matter. And if we're not out of there in 5 years and a Civil war has broken out, guess where my ass is heading. Bush is a hick. No doubt about that. But that's no reason to poo yourself. We are in debt. With all these tax breaks hes giving people now, my generation will be paying for it later.

To the person who said he was Catholic: He's not, he's Born again (if they spell that differently at least you get the point). According to a show i watched on the History channel or somtrhing that's thee reason he won in the first place. He won the evangelicals.

oldsoldier wrote: Blaming an individual for the entire countrys ills, where congressional pork, and all the other mismanagement skills throughout the government is the fault of one man.

I concur that it is incorrect to blame the President 100% for problems on his watch, just as it is incorrect to give the President 100% of the credit for good things on his watch.

Things change slowly over time, and there are a myriad of interacting factors.  The fact is that economists do not know exactly what effect any given event (law, invention, war, tax policy) has on the economy - they cannot know.  Their guesses are more educated than ours, but they still cannot agree amongst themselves on most issues.

To say that "the economy is in the crapper because of Bush" is just as incorrect as to say that "the economy is on the upswing because of Bush's tax cuts".  Both are mere speculation.

Neither party is out to get us or intentionally run us into the ground - I am confident that everybody wants a strong economy.  If we knew for sure what the answer was, we would be doing it.

MROD wrote: We are in debt. With all these tax breaks hes giving people now, my generation will be paying for it later.

That is your opinion, and the opinion of many.  Many others, however, including some very smart people, believe that cutting taxes, while painful in the short term, will help the economy in the long term, which may help your generation.  We will probably never know.

According to a show i watched on the History channel or somtrhing that's thee reason he won in the first place. He won the evangelicals.

Also speculation (by the History Channel).  One article says it was g-a-y marriage and evangelicals.  Another says it was Iraq.  Another says it was a better haircut, and others say it was the security moms.

People like to present their speculation as fact, but that doesn't make it so.

Apparantly liberals are the only ones that complain. I see OS do nothing but complain about "liberal" media, and everything else with the word liberal in it, yet nothing is said. It's pretty sickening, the lack of intelligence shown by both sides, especially lately. I applaud people that actually show points, not ones that are still mad at Clinton lying about his privacy and those mad because Bush cannot speak articulately. For all intents and purposes, the thread started out at least somewhat educational, and then just became a flame fest for those needing a defense mechanism.

Ejp414 wrote: Clark Kent wrote: Another up-and-comer to watch is Bobby Jindal.  He's a little further away, but is definitely going places as well. Oh yeah, he ran for governor of Louisiana. He lost narrowly, but all the same I heard great talk about his competence.

I heard him speak during the governor race.  VERY impressive.  I thought more so than Obama, if not as folksy as Obama.  A couple of more years on him (and no scandals), and I figure he is a serious contender for everything.

I'm impressed with him, but only time will tell.

DBibeau855 wrote: Man, i dunno. The contry isnt about to elect someone named "Obama" I think a lot of people wouldnt vote for him just because he is black. A lot of people wont admit it, but thats what they will do and it sucks.

True - but Obama is impressive that way.  He won a substantial majority of the WHITE vote in Illinois, and played particularly well in downstate rural Illinois.  Weird but true.

He has amazing crossover appeal.

Have u ever seen the speech where he tries to say "u fool me once shame on u, fool me twice shame on me"

he conpletly said the opposite and was like "fool me one...shame on...um u.  fool me twice........uhh u wont fool me 2 times." that was the gretest speech ever delivered by a president.

Whoever said the polls were rigged is an idiot.

GW i a good pres in my mind and im glad he is in his second term.

GW ROCKS!!!!

A-5 Pimp21 wrote: I also hate Democrates because all they do is complain, complain, complain, and they dont have a soultion for jack shiat

Your post was relevant, logical, truthfull....see I can lie too.

Clark Kent wrote: [QUOTE=DBibeau855]Man, i dunno. The contry isnt about to elect someone named "Obama" I think a lot of people wouldnt vote for him just because he is black. A lot of people wont admit it, but thats what they will do and it sucks.

You can say a bunch of people wont vote for him cuz he is black but you can also say that a bunch of people will vote for him because he is black. He would get about 99% of the black voters just because he is black... Thats just as bad as not voting for him cuz he is black.

ms2013 wrote: Tae Kwon Do wrote: The Patriot Act. this is the most midunderstood at. basically, this act takes ALL THE EXISTING LAWS that pertain to info gathering and aprehension and compiles them into an easy to understand law. people who say it means they can just come in and do whatever are idiots. read the stupid act. i did.

Did you read the part where the government doesn't have to tell you that they are searching your house with a warrant until "later some time"?  That's new.  Old law was they had to give you the warrant and THEN search.  Now they can sneak in and never tell you.

Also the part where the government can pick up any non-citizen, on the mere SUSPICION of terrorism, and lock them up forever, with no trial and no rights?  That's also new...

Pretty scary stuff.