The title should have been "Why aren't other companies making backspin barrels?"

I'm curious why paintball companies aren't trying to improve on the Flatline system or trying to make a perfect long-range barrel system. Why aren't there more companies making Y-grips? Those grips are comfy and more suitable for paintball than anything else.

Is it the patents? If it is the patents that keep such things from progressing and improving, I'm going to be pissed.

http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/1668/ - http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/1668/ http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/1668/ -

That is Tippmann's Flatline on the Autococker, I am aware of the Flatline Autococker but thanks for the reminder I guess.

WHY IS THERE NO OTHER BACKSPIN BARREL THAT REQUIRES LESS ADJUSTING AND TUNING THAN A FLATLINE!?!? GEEZ IT IS A BENT PIECE OF PIPE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

its more than a bent piece of pipe  and theres just no need for it

bravecoward wrote: its more than a bent piece of pipe  and theres just no need for it

OK, imagine a Flatline barrel that works at its best no matter the velocity, no matter the speed at which you fire the gun, and has greater distance than it does now.

This could happen if Tippmann lets go of its crappy design and lets other companies improve on it!

WGP guy wrote: Brainless_Fool wrote: That is Tippmann's Flatline on the Autococker, I am aware of the Flatline Autococker but thanks for the reminder I guess. WHY IS THERE NO OTHER BACKSPIN BARREL THAT REQUIRES LESS ADJUSTING AND TUNING THAN A FLATLINE!?!? GEEZ IT IS A BENT PIECE OF PIPE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! There is.  Armotech produced a strait barrel that gives backspin. Called the "hop-up" barrel I believe.

Thanks! I'll look into that

.Ryan wrote: What the heck? Armotech changed it's name to Ariakon....Anyway, I don't know why there aren't more straight barrels that have backspin abilities. I mean, what does it take to make a paintball backspin? Couldn't you do it with like just a little rough place on top on the inside of the barrel?

No. They didnt change their name at all. Armotech and Ariakon are 2 totally different companies. Ariakon was a distrubuter of armotech products, then broke off(thats the short short short story).

Armotech doesnt make the hop-up barrel. Warsensor does. Its a great barrel. It a flat barrel(no curve). It have 3 groves at 9'oclock 12'oclock and 3'oclock. It releases pressure from the top of the ball, and the bottom pressure remains the same. Then the ball starts to spin backward.

iT wOuld bE pretty Hard to make a barrel any more crappier tHan a fLatline.

BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Hands you a cardboard toilet paper roll)

This is my current barrel. (Whispers) It has a silencer. See? (Points to a part of the roll that has the word "Silenser" written on it in Sharpie)

YAY!!! You cant hyperlink.

And yes Armotech split into two different companies

.Ryan wrote: Ariakon_Eagle wrote: .Ryan wrote: What the heck? Armotech changed it's name to Ariakon....Anyway, I don't know why there aren't more straight barrels that have backspin abilities. I mean, what does it take to make a paintball backspin? Couldn't you do it with like just a little rough place on top on the inside of the barrel? No. They didnt change their name at all. Armotech and Ariakon are 2 totally different companies. Ariakon was a distrubuter of armotech products, then broke off(thats the short short short story). Checked again and I'm not stupid. www.armotech.com - Link.

No, they are 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT COMPANIES!!!! Armotech is still a company. They are still currently making markers. Ariakon is now making their own line of markers and has no affiliation of any type with armotech.

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Settlement Announcement:

As most of you have probably noticed, we have changed our name to Ariakon. We have launched an all new website at http://www.ariakon.com/ - www.ariakon.com . In conjunction with the launch of your new site we have also released several new products including the SIM-5. We have been working for a long time to release this marker and appreciate your patience during its development. We hope you enjoy the new site and the new products thank you for your extremely strong support. As always we will strive to serve you with the best possible service and continue to develop new and exciting products in the near future.

Thanks Guys
Everyone at Ariakon.

WHO FEELS STUPID NOW!

There's a picture of the hop-up barrel for you. (It's upside down, when installed the 3 grooves are at the top)

and my gun that I have it on for those out of the know.

And yes whether you'd like to believe it or not you can utilize the scope to accurately shoot other players(I don't wish to get into a discussion/argument/explanation of how this works. Its my option and thats all there is to it, take it for what it is or don't. Purchase the marker, sight it in at 100 ft or more with hpa and other add-ons and draw your own conclusions. Please do not take this offensively, it is ment as info/my option. Different people have different play styles and play different games thank you).

 I hope this doesn't violate any rules, and deeply apologize if it does. I'm just trying to help some make sense of the topic.

The high pressure of air on the bottom of the ball vs. the lower pressure on the top of the ball thanks to the 3 grooves pushes the bottom faster/harder and rolls it back wards.

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETeteeetteeeteeteetee1111!!!!!!!omm gSANTA!!!!!!!!presentsfo'meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eDANCINGCHIKINNUGGETSSSS!!!

Dance some more, I say!

SebastianBlack wrote: I think you got that reversed, air moving faster at the top from behind would make it have a front spin, not a back spin cdacda13 wrote: the "hop-up" barrel uses air pressure to increase range. its like the wings on an air plane. fast moving pressure on top, slow moving pressure on the bottom.

Accually, the three groves are ment to releive pressure from the top of the ball, and the bottom remains the same, creating backspin.

Ok, heres what I got so far.

"the Fatline imparting a backspin. The HU floating upwards because of the force directed at the bottom of the ball. Backspin causes climb while the HU sorta chops at the butt of the ball causing lift.
the best example for the flight pattern could be best summarized between .223 and .17hmr. Without being nitpicky for make, grain, whatever, a .223 and .17hmr though capable of traveling longer distances, are most effectiive within 150 yards. Technically both rounds are chmabered and fly similar arcs out to 150. Dead on at 50, 1.5 inches high at 100, and dead on again at 150. The difference is while your bulle drop is almost identitical, the arc on the .17 is flatter due to a smaller round traveling slowerer than the .223. By changing the opposing force the .17 is able to reach the same ballistics as .223. Similarly, by applying greater force underneath the paintball than the one on top, the HU paint rides on a cushion while the flatline claws its way up. " - The Armorer of the Ariakon Forum

"The direction of travel is indicated by the black arrow, the blue arrows indicate the pressure applied to the ball, and the orange arrows indicate the backpressure from air in the barrel. The green arrow indicates direction of lift. The lower diagram shows the higher pressure area around the ball in an end view.

What I had in mind was a venturi effect, caused by the porting being on one side of the barrel; in this case, the top. The higher pressure on the non ported side (big blue arrow) would force the paintball up against the top of the barrel, and the porting causing a low pressure zone on top of the ball. The porting itself, due to the edges of the holes, would cause friction, and induce a backward spin on the ball.

The orange arrows are the backpressure from air already present, and would also assist in this "lifting" effect.

Because of the friction induced on the tangent of the paintball, a backspin would be created, and therefore cause the "hop up" effect previously described. The number of ports would have to be adjusted to impart the proper RPM and gain the right amount of accuracy versus distance curve, on the chart that Inferno posted. That would take some experimentation, but hey... I'm up for that!

It's really not *that* much different from the WS hop up barrel in theory, but rather than machining grooves in the top of the barrel (which I think would be quite expensive) it simply drills holes. Different enough to avoid patent infringement? Dunno.

I'm almost curious enough to find a ported barrel and start putting tape over the holes, though... or maybe an adjustable sliding sleeve. More top holes, more backspin... up to a point. Figuring it out might be a lot of trial and error for someone like me, and getting the proper amount of volume vented versus the pressure applied would be more a matter of experiment instead of calculation to get a ballpark number." - Ashigaru of the Ariakon Forum

"At this point I reallt can't decide whether the HopUp parrel does topspin or backspin, both theories seem probable in my mind. The only solution is testing. I like the topspin theory because the rpms necesarry to achieve the observed effect are much more within the realm of possibility. I'm going to try to come up with some sort of very basic test using the characteristics of each spin. It would be a great help if someone could get the exact range numbers of the HopUp barrel in comparison to a regular barrel.

As to the rifling discussion, Armorer, how much good do you thing giving a paintball a "rifling" spin will do. I'm not terribly proficient in firearms so I don't know how much effect gyroscopic stabalization will do but it is certainly and interesting theory. Also, careful with these porting designs, they may leed to a horribly inefficient barrel.

I believe I can actualy mathematically prove what dropzone saw with the flatline barrel. See the basic formula for the magnus effect deals with the ratio of surface velocity to forward velocity. In the chart I posted on the first page the x axis represented this ratio. Now as it turns out it is next to impossible to get a ball rotating fast enough to overcome the antimagnus effect at 280 fps. So what the designers of the flatline barrel did was to compromise. A ball inflight slows dramatically due to drag, but the rpm stays mostly the same partly due to the liquid core. So the flatline is designed to put just the right spin on a ball so that it creates lift after the ball has slowed to a certain speed. Thats why you saw the ball rise about halfway through the balls travel. There is actually a cool chart on that physics of paintball website that illustrates this.

This graph was calculated with drag. You can see how the balls trajectories change so dramatically after the ball has gone about 100 ft. and slowed to where the ratio of surface speed to forward velocity is right for lift. The trajectories perfectly match what dropzoen described." - Inferno of Ariakon Forum