No death penalty for juveniles
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=127738
Printed Date: 22 January 2026 at 6:55pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: No death penalty for juveniles
Posted By: Dune
Subject: No death penalty for juveniles
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 3:39pm
|
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050301/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_death_penalty_11 - http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514& e=1&u=/ap/20050301/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_death_penalty_1 1 Wow, quite an upset in the Supreme Court. However, at least this is one more step in the right direction, in my opinion. |
Replies:
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 3:45pm
|
I dont know. At first, I agree with it, but the more I think
about it, the more I'm against it. Someone my age -16- knows full
and well what they are doing when they pull the proverbial
trigger. I'm not too sure how I feel about it right now.
I'll think about it, and post again later. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 3:48pm
| It's very understandable, it's a very difficult issue to come to a consensus on, everyone has their points. I just disagree with the death penalty as a whole and am excited to see it's getting taken out bit by bit. |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:07pm
| I'm glad that the Court left teenagers sole purpose in life intact...Dying on the big screen at the hands of serial killers and monsters. |
Posted By: Trogdor2
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:07pm
|
I saw it on the news an hour ago. I say it's a good thing.
------------- Something unknown is doing we don't know what. That is what our knowledge amounts to. - Sir Arthur Eddington |
Posted By: St. Jimmy
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:10pm
| I say it's a bad thing. Any mass murderer deseves to die. Regardless of age. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:10pm
|
I agree Badsmitty. Anyhow, it was interesting to see who voted, who gave the opinion, and the two different dissenting opinions. I just don't think anyone, especially a government, has the right to put it's citizens to death, regardless of the crime committed. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:44pm
|
An impresionable 16 year old shoots someone. 10 years go by. He is no 26 and about to be put to death. Would you say that he is a different person. Now that he is 26? A child is very much like a sponge. Its how we learn. We observe and emulate what we see in our society. The actions he exibits are in direct relation to what he sees. If he grows up listening to music that does nothing but glorify violence, there is a good chance he will grow up violent. Juveniles are too impresionable to take such a harsh measure for punishment. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
|
Posted By: PlentifulBalls
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:44pm
|
Pfft...if anything they need to increase the death penalty.
------------- 
sporx wrote: well...ya i prolly will be a virgin till i'm at least 30. |
Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:45pm
------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules> |
St. Jimmy wrote:Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:50pm
I wish that Lee Boyd Malvo kid. He should be put to death by stoneing. I think the death penalty should be quicker. It takes years and years for it to be carried out. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:51pm
|
Unfortunately, people think like that. The death penalty serves no purpose other than revenge, and revenge should never be a source for punishment. |
Posted By: PlentifulBalls
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 4:52pm
|
My last statement was chock-full of sacasm.
-------------
sporx wrote: well...ya i prolly will be a virgin till i'm at least 30. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:04pm
|
I definitely understand, especially from previous posts. The death penalty takes forever for a reason, but it still doesn't make it right. It's not a deterrent, has killed and imprisoned innocent people, and is just plain murder of a society's citizens. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:08pm
|
Why should the state pay for cable television, 3 meals a day. Doctor visits, dental, all that, in some cases the tax payer doesnt have it this good. The prisoner in jail for 350 years for killing 6 people in a restaraunt shooting deserves to be put to death. At this point, he is a burden to society. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: tippmannboy2
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:08pm
|
I think that if you raped someone then you should be raped and put in jail. If you killed someone say.... with a rock then you should be killed with rock about a day after your trial.
And if the coroner says the person you killed died slowly and pain fully you should die slowly and painfuly. And i think that if you torture someone then they should torture you untill the brink of death. But nobody really cares what i think so it dont really matter. ------------- Long Live The Confederacy I am an AMERICAN AND IM PROUD OF IT! |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:10pm
|
Eye for an eye just is not civillized, not in a society that preaches freedom. Anyways, Dib, you act like prison is a vaction. I hate to tell you, but the things you think are so nice in prison are not. Anyways, it's more expensive to put someone to death than to just have them rot in a cell. That is what they do...they rot. No one has that right to determine who is a burden and who isn't, but they can be taken out of general population, but should never be killed. |
Posted By: DarkMachine5
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:13pm
|
If you really want to punish some one put him in prison. Killing him
would give an easy way out. If my parents where murdered i wouldnt want
the guy to die. I would want him in jail getting raped and beaten.
------------- Clark Kent wrote: Real men make fun of Muslims. http://www.theqwerty.com - THE QWERTY |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:15pm
| No matter how angry I get at someone, knowing they will never see day light is plenty punishment. Being victimized, beaten, poorly fed, overcrowded, and living in fear is all a bonus that goes with prison. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:17pm
It costs more to house a 23 year old for the rest of his life than to put him to death? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Gotpaint92
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:18pm
|
Not every one will ever agree on the subject of the death penalty. I think that it should stay but only for the people who habitualy raped or murdered or constantly broke a law. No I not saying we should put people to death for illeagly parking but a major law mass murder for example ------------- Be care full! Sigs earn strikes |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:18pm
You probly will be raped in jail... They need to do something about that. But on the other hand, prison is a bad place for bad people. But i dont think its right that people are raped so violently that they need thirteen stiches. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Dom
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:19pm
How come half of the time, I don't...or can't make out a word you're trying to say, then the next post is completely legible. You confuse me |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:21pm
I have a split personality, leave me alone about it.  Its probly that a lot of times im tired or really want to be understood. Other times...not so much.------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:22pm
| Umm, Dib, I don't know where you got that info, but it's wrong. The average cost for a person to serve on death row then be put to death, all of which is a madatory process is much more expensive than housing anyone for the rest of their lives. That is a proof positive fact that has been proven by thousands of individuals and criminologists. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:23pm
I dont have any information, im just trying to figure it out. But, this is asuming the prisoner doesn go through apeal after apeal after apeal. Its still cheaper then? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:27pm
| That's the point though, the appeals process is not separate from death row, it's full process that is granted to anyone on death row. It's cheaper to put a needle in an arm, but that still doesn't make it right. However, the appeals costs must be put in, because it's a granted right. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:31pm
|
Hmm So the apeals process and all that is more expensive than simply housing an inmate. But the inmate will also file apeal after apeals. But the needel in the arm will stop the apeals. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Belt #2
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:32pm
|
It would be even cheaper to throw someone a .45, and a full mag. What is it for a .45 HP? Like $ .33? .33 x 8 = 2.64 Cheap, easy, and immoral. What more is there to ask for?
------------- Most importantly - People suck. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:34pm
|
If you don't understand the process and the rights of an inmate, don't post. It shouldn't be your decision who is killed. |
Posted By: tippmannboy2
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:35pm
|
im getting mad so ill just move to a nother thread before i get banned ------------- Long Live The Confederacy I am an AMERICAN AND IM PROUD OF IT! |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:37pm
| Well even if they aren't put to death, MOST LIKELY, they will be suffering more than ever after they die. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:43pm
|
The whole being rapped and beatten and all that. Thats pretty bad too. I wonder if that really happens thogh. Im sure fights break out. But rapings. I wonder if it really happens like in the movies and all that. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:43pm
| I have stories for you, but too vulgar to post. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:47pm
|
So it does happen. God thats awful, they should give them maile chastity belts. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:48pm
| Haha, I'll pm you some stuff sometime. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 5:51pm
|
OOh, ile be waiting with suspense. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: sheriffhuck511
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 6:05pm
|
Dune you are very liberal about everything arent you.
But I have one question, how do you feel when someone kills and is sentenced to life only to get parole after a couple of years? What if that person kills again once they return to society. Im not for the death penalty when it comes to crimes of passion because those people usually returns to society with no reason to kill anyone else. But when the crime is unconscionably heinous like "The Black Widow" a woman named Betty Lou Beets who murdered multiple husbands for insurance money or Ted Bundy then I think death is necessary if for no other reason than the protection of society. If you put people like this in prison for life what do they have to lose to kill another prisoner? That dead prisoner has the right to safely serve his time for his crime and then return to society. Worse yet, what if the murderer is released on parole or escapes? Look at the reports by criminologist and you will see that the recidivism rates of sociopaths (Ted Bundy) is extremely high. Im not gonna lie and make up a number, I cant remember the real number at this point but I remember is being well above 75% because they just can't grasp with the way society works. In their mind they were doing right by killing all those people. I remember studying one killer who carried a yard stick and measured the grass in his victims yard to see if it was to high. Then he checked their house to see how clean it was and if it was dirty he would kill them. He got caught after killing an entire family of 5 minus one son who was gone at the time, the son is the one who found his family dead. The killer thought he was doing society a favor, do you want this man in prison with people like white collar criminals? He would probably kill again in prison because the cell was to dirty. Just my 2 cents, Huck ------------- My set up: 98c with flatline, x-chamber, e-bolt, car stock, remote, Crossfire .68/4500, and Empire Reloader B "I'm gonna barbecue you in molasses!" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 6:13pm
Umm, sheriff car numbers are 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, ect. 511 is a normal partol man. **edit: im thinking of seargents(sp?) |
Posted By: sheriffhuck511
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 6:17pm
The numbers in my name are for my birthday- May 11. Not my rank, plus in my county we dont go by that number system, that is for large cities. The numbers for our officers are in the double digits only, the Sheriff is 81A, the Chief Deputy is D1, the Lt's are D4-10 and the Sgt's are D11-18. Investigators have their own number begining with I's like I3. Huck ------------- My set up: 98c with flatline, x-chamber, e-bolt, car stock, remote, Crossfire .68/4500, and Empire Reloader B "I'm gonna barbecue you in molasses!" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 6:42pm
|
Anyone with the chance to receive the death penalty would never receive parole, and if they're serving life with a chance of parole then it wasn't serious enough by US law to incorporate the death penalty. Once again, heinous murderers are rarely ever released on parole, hell many states do not even have a parole board. I understand what you were trying to get at, but it doesn't fit, because it wouldn't happen like that. Regardless of any crime committed, that person does not deserve to have the government take away his or her life. What happens in prison would just determine a further punishment, such as solitary confinement. |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:14pm
Exactly what I was thinking lol. About thoes appeals: Screw 'em. Kill them and let God sort 'em out! |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:27pm
|
I hope that you're not serious, although I know many people actually believe that it's their place to make that judgement. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:31pm
Much to the affect of what Dune said earlier. If you arent going to contribute in a posotive manner. Keep your mouth shut. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: St. Jimmy
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:32pm
|
Personally, I'd rather blow his brains out into the bay. But, yours is a nice, legal alternative. |
Posted By: bluemunky42
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:33pm
im with u one that bro. suposing sum 14 yr old whips out a mac10 and blows away his entire skool save for a few ppl who saw it all and escaped with only a few minor injuries. they all agree on the same story, this kid just killed 100+ people and they dont put him to death? bad decision in my opinion ------------- 
http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity - http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:34pm
| How is it a bad decision? You have the universal knowledge and power to take someone's life away in "more legal" form then they committed homicide? Nope, they murdered, you murdered, no difference. |
Posted By: bluemunky42
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:37pm
yeah i would too. if ur parents were really murdered u wouldnt feel that way(i dont think)personally i would want revenge i would go after that mfer with a semi-auto handgun -------------
http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity - http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:38pm
| Revenge is no answer to justice. |
Posted By: bluemunky42
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:38pm
|
u kno what i think whatever sum1 intentionally does to some1 else should have it done bak to them. thats proper punishment if u ask me -------------
http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity - http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity |
Posted By: MROD
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:52pm
|
^That's right. And I'll use that philosophy when I get a titty twister tommorow. ------------- I need to find smaller pictures for my profile. |
Posted By: sheriffhuck511
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:53pm
Rarely is the correct word for a heinous murderer getting parole, but the chance does exist. Remember when Karla Fay Tucker the woman in Texas who got high off of and I quote " heroin, valium, speed, percodan, mandrax, marijuana, dilaudid, methadone, tequila, and rum" all at the same time and some how managed to go with her boyfriend and brake into an occupied apartment and struck the male occupent with a hammer, and then while he begged for his life she hit him repeatedly with a pickax. Then they found a women hiding under some covers and did the same to her. She later told her sister that "she got a thrill while picking the male" and that every time she "picked the female she looked up grinned and got a nut and hit her again." Both the victims had over 20 wounds and the pickax was found in the woman victim's body. Anyways Karla Tucker went on 20/20 trying to get claim she found Jesus and wanted off death row. She is not the first to try and get clemency by going on tv and while most only get their sentences commuted to life when it works some actually manage to make enough fuss to get a full pardon. That is not something I would want on my concious, a good person dying at the hands of a known murderer that got off on a media hype because a yellow journalist or sensationalist wanted to sale some newspapers and get on tv (and you are very naive if you think reporters dont hype stories so they can be on tv). You may feel that is government approved murder but I feel death penalities in cases such as above is the government doing its job of protecting society. Its part of the deterrence method that is so important to the criminal justice system. Again this is my opinion and of course I respect yours, this is why I am in the military to support your right to the 1st amendment. And as long as you are open-minded and respectful I will gladly debate with you in a respectful, adult manner. I feel appeals are neccesary to the system to ensure no part of the trial are over looked or that a small town small minded judge isnt being biased in their judgement because nothing is worse than an innocent person being executed. Huck ------------- My set up: 98c with flatline, x-chamber, e-bolt, car stock, remote, Crossfire .68/4500, and Empire Reloader B "I'm gonna barbecue you in molasses!" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice |
Posted By: Atreyu
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:53pm
|
Ever heard of "Eye for a Eye"? If you kill somewon, you should die. ------------- If you wanna serve up above or be a King down below with us your welcome the City where your future is set forever. |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:54pm
No, I was not being too serious. Although I can almost gaurntee crime rate would go down if we did implement this process.
I contemplated long and hard on how to answer this question. Do I subject to your force and simply reply 'yessa massa, me do as yoo wish'? Or do I tell you that I can participate in any thread (save the mod's forum ofcource) on this forum that I wish to, sarcastic or serious? I choose the latter. |
Posted By: Atreyu
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 7:54pm
|
In the same way that you killed them. ------------- If you wanna serve up above or be a King down below with us your welcome the City where your future is set forever. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 8:01pm
| That rule cannot work, because of cases of self defense and such. I understand your point, but just because the possibility exists doesn't give the government the right to kill them. Anything is possible in this world, especially in the criminal justice system. Rarely does not allow for executions to have a reason to be allowed, especially since the government doesn't use them "rarely." |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 8:03pm
|
Im against the death period in all forms and fasions. We will be done with it in under 10 years. ------------- 
|
Posted By: sheriffhuck511
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 8:21pm
I disagree the Supreme Court actually supports the Death penalty. Case and point: 1972 Furman v Georgia death penalty was declared unconstinstional right? Well holding/reason for this was not because it was "cruel and unusual" as people like to cite, it was declared unconstitional because it was being applied in an "arbitrary and capricious manner" meaning to all you 13 year olds that it was unfairly applied to the poor, weak, and minority. 1976 Gregg v Georgia (I love my home state) the Supreme Court ruled that death penalty did not violate the 8th amendment (Freedom from Cruel and Unusual Punishment) as long as it was administered in away to protect it from "arbitrariness and discrimination". As long as the states have a fair method to employ the death penalty it is legal. In that case they approved Georgia, Florida, and Texas's systems from applying the death penalty and Gary Gilmore became the first to be executed in the modern death penalty era. Since then most states have accepted the approved system for applying the death penalty. In other words the death penalty is here to stay as long as the Supreme Court remains conservative, and I dont see that changing anytime soon. Huck ------------- My set up: 98c with flatline, x-chamber, e-bolt, car stock, remote, Crossfire .68/4500, and Empire Reloader B "I'm gonna barbecue you in molasses!" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 8:25pm
You said what I have neither the intelligence, nor patience to.   |
Posted By: sheriffhuck511
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 8:28pm
Actually if you look at the number of cases of murder each year in the UCR (Federal Uniform Crime Report) you will see that there are thousands of murders every year yet only about 100 people sitting on death row in every state and they may have been sitting on death row for 15 years so do the math and you will see that in less than 5% of cases is the death penalty sought and less than 1% is it actually applied. So in reality it is used "rarely", just the tv hypes it up to look like it happens all the time. Huck ------------- My set up: 98c with flatline, x-chamber, e-bolt, car stock, remote, Crossfire .68/4500, and Empire Reloader B "I'm gonna barbecue you in molasses!" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice |
Posted By: Curlyman666
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 9:20pm
|
in an extreme case like that i doubt the normal rules and as someone said in another thread like this,serial killers and something else i cant pronounce have a mental illness that cant be fixed and therefore the only safe way to deal with them is to ensure that they can never be let into society again,so you have to kill them basically because they could escape or somehow get parole or something ------------- signature |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 9:25pm
Dune: I am still stuck in the middle as to what I feel about it.  ------------- 
|
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 9:29pm
|
I think it really depends. Im somewhat torn on the issue. I dont know wich is better. Lettin them rot. Or killing them. I think, if they pose a threat to other inmates. They should be executed. But if not. They can rot in jail. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Variable
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 10:14pm
|
If thats the case then why don't we just execute half of our inmates
and be done with it? What you said is too arbitrary to be put
into legal action.
------------- 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/colonelbob/faaaaall.gif - Fat girl falling. |
Posted By: sheriffhuck511
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 11:10pm
|
Killing for the sake of killing is wrong, even for the government.
Executing to protect society as a whole and innocent in particular is a dirty job and heavy burden that must fall upon someone's shoulders to be carried out. I'm glad they aren't upon mine, to decide when someone else's life isnt worth saving for the greater good. Every night I pray for those in leadership because whether they know it or not and whether they accept it or not they all fall under GOD's Will. I pray these people make the correct decisions so that the innocent may not suffer more than they already have to. Huck ------------- My set up: 98c with flatline, x-chamber, e-bolt, car stock, remote, Crossfire .68/4500, and Empire Reloader B "I'm gonna barbecue you in molasses!" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 01 March 2005 at 11:37pm
The death penalty is "not a deterrent"....hmmm.....
------------- 
|
Posted By: _Madman_
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 12:04am
|
IMO, as it stands, the sheriff is right. Now I fully support the death penalty, but the extreme circumstances that it take to get there as well as the twenty years of appeals that criminals go through to get there is ridiculous. To be an active deterrant punishments need to be severe, common, and swift. For theft, petty or whatever flog them, if they are a juvenile, flog the parents too, teach them some responsibility. For rape, premeditated murder, let the buggers have one appeal, then let them hang. Once the penalties become enforced people will think about their actions before they commit them. 10 hours of community service is not a deterant to theft, and 10 years in jail is not a deterant to murder. ------------- A-5 14" Stiffi Tapco CAR Stock Shocktech A-5 Drop Maddman Spring Kit R-5 Stealth Hopper A5-A2 Front Grip Palmer Stab E-Grip Lapco Double Trigger HPA - and a license to kick butt |
Posted By: AdmiralSenn
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 1:20am
|
I'm also in the middle on it. The Bible does say to kill a murderer, but it doesn't say 'a convicted murderer', it says a murderer. Meaning that you have to KNOW the person did it, and according to another passage, you need at least two witnesses to prove it. So the death penalty, if it's kept, should only be for those who match these criteria.
The problem is when you have, say, a black man accused of killing a white man, and all witnesses are extremely racist whites? Can you convict someone in that situation when it's very likely that the witnesses are lying? I'd also like to point out that the Bible says a 'man' who commits murder. I'd interpret that as meaning that you could only punish someone who is defined by society as being of legal adult age (I think in that case it was 13, but ours is 18). In either case, I think they are too lenient on most prisoners. I think that if we have people who are definitively convicted and/or someone who confesses but is still on Death Row, we should allow them to volunteer for medical and other tests. End animal testing, no death penalty, and they serve a purpose to society, but only if they want to. Plus, if you kill them there's no opportunity to proselytize .
I don't know. It's a real mess. Again, assuming I ever get around to it, I'll add this in my super-religion topic. ------------- Is God real? You'll find out when you die. 
Okay, I don't have a clever signature zinger. So sue me. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 1:32am
You obviously don't know the term "generalized deterrent" which does not apply to the criminal. Also, as to sherrif saying it is rarely used, you have to understand the circumstances in which one can be put to death. In that case, those committing capital offenses are more often put on death row. Hades. I understand your middle of the road ideals. I was once very pro-death penalty until I started studying and actually witnessed an execution. My ideals have changed the closer I get to what it's like on both ends of the law. |
Posted By: ScarFace22
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 8:33am
|
I think the whole thing is a joke. As said on the first page a person who is 14,15,or 16 years old knows what they are doing. If they commit murder they should be able to be killed. Why do I feel like that..for a few reasons one being a murder here in the Philadelphia area. In a town called FishTown PA a 16 year old boy was killed by a two 16 year olds and a 15 year old. The story is that they pre planned to rob him and kill him...to kill him was always in the plan remeber that. They took him into the woods and the three boys beat the kid to death with a rock a golf club and something else. They beat him so bad that the kids dad couldn't even identify him. IMO somone like that is better off dead then alive and if anyone needs to be electracuted it should be him. This story was not just a murder story but an act of inhumanity. I think its a joke that they say "They can't kill them because its against the constitution of cruel and unjust punishment. What about that kid who was murdered. That wasn't cruel and unjust? The whole thing is so stupid. Im getting sick of these retarted liberals and there "constitional BS" If the terroist need to blow something up it should be the Supreme Court..they'd be doing everyone a favor. ------------- 
Check my thread in the Great guns thread for Timmy tech help or PM me |
Posted By: reclusivetorrid
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 9:29am
|
Wow that all took a while to wade through...
The death penalty is a very confusing subject when you really think about it. There is a dark side to the world, very dark. Where people take pleasure in the ritualistic death and misery of others. These people should be destroyed, not out of malice (on my part) but out of a desire for self preservation. The liberal agendas, specifically taught in our current education system and by our wonderful media. Disreguard ideas of morality. They want to throw out the ten commandments from our court houses. How do we define what is right and wrong if law is removed? The truth is liberals don't want right and wrong defined, this hampers thier desire to do anything they want. Certain things are wrong until they want to do it. Case in point is this whole "hate George Bush" movement. I've actually heard liberals say that they want to kill him. These don't sound like peaceful people to me. These don't sound like wonderfully compassionate people. moving on... The death penalty is seriouse, it is a very grim sentence that should never be given lightly. In the case of juvies I would surmise that the death penalty would be a service to them, apart from life imprisonment. Bad things happen in prisons...though alot of liberals would probably welcome a good buggering. Just my opinion...I'm also having a bad day. This forum needs some realy people in it again. I hope sheriffhuck511 sticks around for a while... Later ------------- 
|
Posted By: sheriffhuck511
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 10:05am
Again you are correct Dune but in a fairly general way. More people committed for capital crimes are executed because you have to committ a capital crime before people starting considering death. But as I stated the numbers show that LESS THAN 1% of convicted murders go on death row and that doesn't factor in the number of people who get their sentences commuted during the appeals process. Im sure that the death penalty does stand to have effect as deterrent. Most people get mad at many people everyday for cutting them off in traffic and such. People become furious when friends hurt them, or lovers cheat but you don't kill these people in this circumstance because for most of us this is morally wrong. But there are more than a few of society that are morally corrupt and they dont do it because of the penalties imposed if they do. They dont want to die or go to jail so they dont commit the crime, to these people death is in fact a major deterrant. Again I dont support the death penalty for heat of passion crimes such as murdering your wife because she was cheating on you. Yes that is wrong and yes you should spend along time in prison but you are not a threat to society or even other prisoners. Once released you may return to life healthy and able to move on with life. But sociopaths are admittedly uuncureable at this point in time. They think they are doing right and will continue to do so because we have no cure for them outside of a full frontal labodomy (spelling is wrong, but the front lobe of your brain that controls thoughts and desires) or keep them drugged to the hilt. But the labodomy is cruel and unusual IMO, I would rather die then spend the rest of life with the thought process of a carrot. Drugging them is not safe because they can stop taking it or what not, remember sociopaths are usually highly intelligent and are excellent problems solvers. As long as they remain alive they are a threat to society and everyone in it. Huck ------------- My set up: 98c with flatline, x-chamber, e-bolt, car stock, remote, Crossfire .68/4500, and Empire Reloader B "I'm gonna barbecue you in molasses!" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 10:26am
Actually, I have. I just don't care about a generalized deterrent. What I care about is having threats to society permanently removed. The death penalty is so weakened by excessive numbers of appeals, and in some cases appeals that are so ridiculous that it will never be a deterrent unless the system changes. It can still be effective in removing those whose own actions indicate they can never be a productive member of society, but are actually quite the opposite. A few random thoughts:
-------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 11:07am
|
Just because there is an evil doesn't mean YOU have the right to take that person's life. No matter what the crime, no one and definitely no government should have the divine right to take that person's life away. Once again, you act like the exclusionary rule allows for rapists and murderers to get back on the streets. Highly untrue, mainly for the fact that the exclusionary rule is rarely ever used, and in cases where evidence is excluded, the defendant is almost always convicted. If someone does get let off because of police misconduct, it is our fault, not theirs. Once again, I'll repeat this for the people in the back row. The death penalty IS NOT A DETERRENT. There is no justifiable evidence to support that it is, and no, since people hardly know what can be used as a capital offense (clearly being shown by some people on the forum), people do not think about the death penalty first. Scarface, you have simply proved my point that you think you have the ability to make the choice on who stays and who goes. I wonder, did your god talk to you and tell you that it's your responsibility? I doubt, however you do seem to want to blow up a conservative Supreme Court. If I would have said to take the bomb elsewhere...maybe the Whitehouse, I would have been jumped immediately. The death penalty is murder. |
Posted By: ScarFace22
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 11:42am
|
conserative Supreme court....pff hahah that should get "the most retarted comment of 2005 award." The supreme court is so liberal its not funny. They take no morals into consideration only the "onstutional right" that why there's still abortion.
-------------
Check my thread in the Great guns thread for Timmy tech help or PM me |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 12:20pm
|
Dune is correct. The death penality is not a deterant.
A criminal does before committing a crime, stop to think, "Wait. I am about to commit murder in the first degree. It is possible if I commit this crime I could be put to death for committing this crime. I had better not do it." It doesnt work that way. -------------
|
Posted By: cripple
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 1:26pm
|
I have civil criminal law 2nd hour and that was a big discussion. I believe that it depends on the type of murder if kids should get death penalty |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 2:22pm
| I hate to tell you Scarface, but the Supreme Court, at least this one, is a conservative court. You might want to make a speach ready for your "most idiotic forumer award" because I am right. |
Posted By: St. Jimmy
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 2:50pm
|
^Yes you are. |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 3:18pm
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 3:20pm
| Tactics used by those, on both sides, when they don't know the facts of an issue to debate. |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 3:32pm
I just saw it in someones sig, thought it was funny. But I don't think they should get death, just life in prison. Because (might not want to read any further) that when they die most likely they will suffer more than anything the justice system could do to them. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 3:35pm
| It's possible, the schema of the death penalty is different for many people. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 3:36pm
|
I think prison life would be much worse than getting a series of shots so they go to sleep like some sort of sick puppy. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 02 March 2005 at 3:36pm
| I'd rather be killed then have a group of guys victimize me on a daily basis with razor blades and soap. |