Hale - Terrorist?
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=128384
Printed Date: 06 March 2026 at 9:28am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Hale - Terrorist?
Posted By: Clark Kent
Subject: Hale - Terrorist?
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 3:16pm
|
Most of you are probably aware of the recent killing of the family of a Federal judge in Chicago. One of the suspects is Matthew Hale, a white supremacist currently in jail for hiring a hitman to kill that same judge. Relevant story http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=564252 - here . So, my question: Does this make Hale a terrorist? He is a member of a violent hate-group with an anti-American agenda. He has directly targeted a Federal official. Could/should the attorney general declare Hale an "enemy combatant" and lock him up subject to military law, or take other "anti-terror" action? Thoughts/comments? |
Replies:
Posted By: Frozen
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 3:26pm
|
Assuming he is guilty, I say yes to the terrorist part.(I also say no, but I lean more towards yes for our purposes) He is, as stated, a member of an anti-american group, and did in fact solicit the killing of a member of our government. This is an extremely hard call to make, and I would have to see previous cases and info on current terror suspects to make a better decision. |
Posted By: 98c Dude13
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 3:32pm
|
I wouldn't consider him a terrorist unless he killed him for the hate of America. He probaly hired the guy to kill him because he just didn't like the guy. And if he really was a terrorist then he would have just blown up all the federal jusdges when he had a chance. So no I don't think he's a terrorist. If he is then he would be the dumbest one ever. ------------- TIPPMANN 98 CUSTOM 14" Progressive barrel 32* Black gel grips BT-16 Double trigger Pen Spring Mod X-core Expansion Chamber Vertical Adapter |
Posted By: WUNgUN
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 3:36pm
|
Domestic Terrorist... ------------- [IMG]http://hometown.aol.com/hlwrangler/myhomepage/revised5_copy.jpg"> ""...the Marines we have there now could crush the city and be done with business in four days."--LtGen Conway on Fallujah |
Posted By: 98c Dude13
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 3:37pm
|
^ I doubt it. ------------- TIPPMANN 98 CUSTOM 14" Progressive barrel 32* Black gel grips BT-16 Double trigger Pen Spring Mod X-core Expansion Chamber Vertical Adapter |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 3:38pm
He wasnt trying to insite terror was he? He was making an assasination attempt. Not really terrorist material in my mind. Besides, all terrorists are from the middle east...  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
|
Posted By: WUNgUN
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 3:39pm
Domestic Terrorism: The actions by persons seeking to persuade or dissuade the government or people of their home country using violent means that intend to frighten or coerce, ranging from threats to outright acts of violence such as kidnapping, beatings, or murder. Still doubt it? Look at a list of them, you may be surprised or learn something... ------------- [IMG]http://hometown.aol.com/hlwrangler/myhomepage/revised5_copy.jpg"> ""...the Marines we have there now could crush the city and be done with business in four days."--LtGen Conway on Fallujah |
98c Dude13 wrote:Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 3:44pm
|
But we all agree that the Oklahoma City guys were terrorists, right? (I think) What makes this guy different? Is it just scale? Kill two people and you are a criminal, kill a hundred and you are a terrorist? Or is it motivation? What is really the difference between a terrorist and a criminal? |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 3:47pm
|
I think he might be classified as a terrorist. It sounds like he was trying to intimidate the judge. But if not. Hes just a killer. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: pballa j.r.
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 4:40pm
|
Terrorist.
------------- 
|
Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 4:43pm
------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules> |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 4:45pm
|
It sounds like he was just trying to kill the judge. Not a terrorist i dont think. Regardless of what the law says. I think hes just some flunky killer. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Frozen
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 4:52pm
But he killed the Judges whole family. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:05pm
|
So? Im not trying to its not bad. But peoples families get killed all the time. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: phillll227
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:07pm
|
That's a tough one.
I would say that he is a terrorist and should be treated as such. I thought about it for a while and i decided that he was using violent tactics to promote an agenda of fear. He intentionally killed innocent people with the sole purpose of scaring others. The fact that he targeted a US government official with terror doesn't make him any more or less of a terrorist. To sum it up, he is a terrorist because he used terror to promote his agenda. Note: All of the above is based on the assumption that he is guilty. If found not guilty, he should face no further consequences ------------- |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:10pm
Well than so are gangs. And hate groups. So the US harbors terrorists as well because they have the freedome of speach... gg USA ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: phillll227
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:16pm
If by harbor gangs you mean fight them everyday, then yes. If you mean harbor in the more traditional sense of the word, to protect and offer shelter to, then no the US government does not harbor gangs. And I'm not sure where freedom of speech comes in, other than yes, everybody in the US has it (or at least should) Edit: gangs who use fear tactics are a type of terrorist. The US government does not, however aid their fight. ------------- |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:17pm
|
Terrorist. ------------- 
|
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:19pm
Well, what i mean is, we fight for the rights of hate groups every day in the courts. We fight for the right for the neo natzis to have a compound that looks exactly like the ones in afganistan. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Mad Psience
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:22pm
|
not all terrorists are from the middle east.. but they all swing by there. John Walker.. zing ------------- 
|
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:24pm
|
I agree with domestic terrorist.
Whatever happened to them looking for the goat farmer from Califorina? ------------- 
|
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:26pm
|
But that's the rub - under current policy, if we decide he is/could be a terrorist, then we can detain him as an "enemy combatant" WITHOUT trial, on suspicion alone. This means that a determination of what exactly constitutes "terrorism" becomes very important...
|
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:26pm
|
Goat farmer? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:28pm
|
Stick him in Gitmo with those others there and let them sort out their differences. -------------
|
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:32pm
|
This guy:
EXCLUSIVE: Adam Gadahn, The American goat farmer turned Islamic Extremist 
His father was Muslim but an atheist. His mother was Christian and homeschooled him. He had his doubts about Christianity (particularly the Trinity). Says Gadahn: "I gradually realized I could not be a Christian." He goes on: In the meantime, I had become obsessed with demonic Heavy Metal music, something the rest of my family (as I now realize, rightfully so) was not happy with. My entire life was focused on expanding my music collection. I eschewed personal cleanliness and let my room reach an unbelievable state of disarray. My relationship with my parents became strained, although only intermittently so. I am sorry even as I write this. He started listening to extremist Chrisitan radio and eventually came to Islam. I discovered that the beliefs and practices of this religion fit my personal theology and intellect as well as basic human logic... Having been around Muslims in my formative years, I knew well that they were not the bloodthirsty, barbaric terrorists that the news media and the televangelists paint them to be. Perhaps this knowledge led me to continue my personal research further than another person would have. I can't say when I actually decided that Islam was for me. It was really a natural progression. In any case, last week [November 1995 -ed.]I went to the Islamic Society of Orange County in Garden Grove and told the brother in charge of the library I wanted to be a Muslim... It feels great to be a Muslim! Subhaana rabbiyal 'azeem! -------------
|
Posted By: phillll227
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:35pm
I think wether he is currently detained under military law or civilian law is irrelevant, as long as there is a trial in the (near) future to determine his guilt or innocence. I am undecided as to other cases involving uncharged detention, but this case needs formal charges and/or a trial. ------------- |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:35pm
|
Yeah. Havent heard anything about that guy. "Fits my intelect" Just sounds like a hick to me. A redneck hick, a dangerous one at that. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: tippmannboy2
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:35pm
shoot em all a murderer is a murderer thats that.  ------------- Long Live The Confederacy I am an AMERICAN AND IM PROUD OF IT! |
Posted By: phillll227
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:38pm
First of all, who is "we"? Second, it's ok for them to have these compounds as long as they are for nonviolent purposes, which is (for the most part) not the case in Afganistan. ------------- |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:41pm
|
Of course they are for violent purposes. By we, i mean, the US government. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Snipa69
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:44pm
|
I am personally sick and tired of all this crap saying that anything BAD that happens is a terrorist act. They are starting to say that local gangs arround here could be linked with Al-Queda. It's all just a huge hype trying to keep us on our toes about EVERYTHING to try and justifiy government actions. Gangs have been arround for a LONG time and they are just now starting to suspect terrorist acts? I say no. If this judge was an important figure in a case relating to Hale's white supremacist group, then it was to shut him up. I say yes. If this judge was trying a case that would have prevented Hale from an overthrow of the U.S. government to replace it with his own then treat him like a terrorist. Until 9-11, the words 'white supremacist' and 'terrorist' were hardly linked together by our news agencies. Now, a mere plane crash due to pilot error near any major city happens in cunjunction with terrorist motives behind it. I wish all news agencies would die at this point. ------------- http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/857/sig9ac6cs1mj.jpg - |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 09 March 2005 at 5:45pm
|
/\/\/\/\/\
Exactl y. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 10 March 2005 at 12:14pm
|
It looks like some of my local gangbangers are going to be charged with http://www.avpress.com/n/10/0310_s4.hts - Street Terrorism. -------------
|
Posted By: MetallicaESPa5
Date Posted: 10 March 2005 at 12:21pm
OMG ITS High_Voltage! ------------- 
|
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 10 March 2005 at 2:17pm
|
What the heck is "street terrorism"? |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 10 March 2005 at 2:28pm
|
I havent found a legal definition for it yet but it looks like New York is using it as a charge as well. -------------
|
Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 10 March 2005 at 3:04pm
|
It depends on why he killed them.
If he killed them because he was pissed at the judge, then no, he's not a terrorist. If he killed them to prevent other judges from making the same ruling as him, then yes, he is. ------------- 
|
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 10 March 2005 at 4:07pm
|
Sounds like they are trying to make charges stick my using the word "terrorism" I bet a jury is more apt to convict someone suspected of "Street Terrorism" ESPECIALY in New York. Than just another drive by shooting. Same crime, different vocabulary. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|