Its stupid.  What they're doing is tourturing this woman.  They took her off of life support for a week, then the husband decides he wants her to live and goes to court and gets the feeding tube put back in her.  Now her family wants the tube out because they think its wrong to prolong something that will just end in death and its been surfaced that the husband has been living with another woman for quite some time now...its wrong.  Also, as you know, Jeb Bush is gov. of florida.  He went to his brother and since his bro is the president and 2/3rds of the govt. is conservative, they passed a law to keep her alive.  The bill isn't really about her, but the controversey from her case sparked the law.  I am totally against what is happening right now.  The husband is just keeping her alive so he can get her money...or something like that...im not sure, but the husband is a **edited**.

Im not mad about the fact bush passes any damn law he wants while letting important bills and laws die on his desk.  Im more worried that he feels he can do whatever he wants unchallenged, and he can.  With bush in control of 2/3rds of the govt, it is basically a monarchy, with certain checks and balances to keep him from becoming an absolute ruler.  Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread...my bad, i kinda went out on a tangent.

Knight of Fire wrote: ...so far theres been a doctor, who uses parts of dead people to sudy, said theres no point keeping her alive, and aparently he struck a deal with the husband... the husband kills his wife and gives her body parts to the doc..... the doc gives the husband a whole lot of benjamins. ...

At some point during this transaction, was Elvis sighted?  Or perhaps some aliens, or the world's biggest baby?

Here's legislation Bush signed in 1999 that allowed hospitals to remove life support from patients that were deemed "hopeless." It was originally designed for adults, but in 2003 there was an amendment to make it apply to minors as well.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/HS/content/htm/hs.002.00.000166.0 0.htm" rel=nofollow> http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/HS/content/htm/ hs.002.00.000166.0 0.htm

He was offered a million to divorce her, but refused.  Maybe he is making sure that her wishes are carried out.  Maybe the Republicans should live up to that sanctity of marriage zeal that they love so much and let her husband decide.  Maybe the Republicans should live up to that "states rights" zeal that they espouse incessantly and let the state decide which they have done 17 times already.

cadet_sergeant wrote: Badsmitty wrote: They're scum.  They gripe about "activist judges" and do this to get rid of a Florida Senator in an upcoming election.  They'll boohoo about this woman while cutting aid to veterans, children, etc. they just signed 150 million dollars to vets, and how are they taking away from children? money given to education? more money has been put into education in bushs first 4 years as president that Clintens (SP?) 8 years in office. please explane how their taking from children.

Wow, you skipped the memo and the legislation signed by G.W. that I posted that is directly pertinent to the thread and attack the Clintons.  Tell you what, let's save the children and the veterans for a different thread and discuss the memo and the legislation that I posted.  I was wrong to post anything about veterans and children in this thread.  O.K.?  Now about the legislation, memo, sanctity of marriage and states rights...

Knight of Fire wrote: Ever hear of the phrase "follow the money"........ also kinda rediculus that terrys own family can't even giver her a drink or some ice cubes....... I stick to my opinion......The husband: A) wants some more money and B) he wants to hide something.

O.K., She's been vegetative for 15 years.  He's been offered money to divorce her.  She doesn't appear to be waking up and turning states evidence and he's turned down money to divorce her.  Anything else?

cadet_sergeant wrote: well lets just leave the fact that her husband left her 12 years ago (when she was first hospitalized) and went and started another family out of it. They also believe that he may want her dead to hid some secrets. how would you want your spouse to make those decisions, when your spouse is so quick to leave you?

By that time she would have been in her vegetative state for three years. That's three years alone for him. THREE YEARS. He is a young man.

You and all of the conservative radio hosts are quick to condemn this man for wanting to get on with his life. Many people who have been married 30 years or more remarry within a year of their spouse dying, so give the man a break.

And I vote with badsmitty-maybe he didn't divorce her because he loved her and wanted to see her wishes through. Since we don't know the facts, why don't we err on the side of compassion for the man instead of villifying him.

And, I would like to point out, that at the same time the world appears to be melting down around us, congress is busy stepping into state business and interviewing baseball players. They have better things to be doing right now, but I'm sure this is a welcome diversion from their daily scandals and inefficiency.

Sammy wrote: Let her die.

Seriously, she doesn't even know she exists. I feel bad for her. I'm sure if she could talk she would tell everyone to let her die already.

-me

First -

The law in Florida (and in most other states, I believe) is very clear.  "Living wills" are very explicitly provided for.  If in fact Teri told her husband to pull the plug (let's all believe him for the moment and assume she really did this), then the law would pretty clearly require that we follow her request.

I know for certain that my living will (yes, I have one) would specifically direct my trustee to end life support in this type of situation.  Who are we to overrule Teri on this matter?  This is what she wanted.  I would certainly be pissed if somebody overruled my living (except that I would be vegetative).

Second -

This IS what vegetative looks like.  Yes, she moves and blinks.  Did you guys see the video clips of that Egyptian(?) girl that had an extra head removed from her skull?  Creepiest damned thing.  This head had eyes and everything - they eyes would blink, they would trace, and the mouth would occasionally smile.  But that head had no upper brain.  Just because there are movements doesn't mean it isn't a vegetative state.  When there is no movement, we call that a coma.

Other than doubts about what Teri did or did not say, this whole thing is a crock.  There is a law on the books, which was being enforced as written, until Congress and Jeb Bush came along to meddle.

AdmiralSenn wrote: I haven't confirmed this yet (pending some spare time) but supposedly there are recordings within the last week of Terry conversing. I have the links, but haven't played with them yet. I'd rather keep her alive. I imagine this: My dad is a diabetic (true). Say he was in the hospital, in a coma and hadn't spoken for weeks, and was by all accounts going to die. Removing life support would stop what pain he is aware of. Would I do it? No. There is always the possibility that there will be a cure, or a person will suddenly snap out of their condition, and they may go on to do great things with their added years (incidentally, this is very similar to part of my stance on abortion). Even if they do allow her to die, starvation is one of the more cruel ways to do it that isn't barred by the Geneva Conventions. It's essentially euthanasia, except that the doctor isn't directly killing the patient, but it amounts to the same thing. If it's legal to allow someone to die after a medical procedure that if left undone would help the person to survive, then euthanasia is next. Within fifty years we could see the death penalty enforced for even minor crimes, then aborting any children not in our population quota, etc. (If this sounds extreme, keep in mind that Clark Kent and I still occasionally argue over a document quoting Thomas Jefferson's personal correspondence. That document is still used as a legal precedent for actions. A decision like this is even more concrete. If a personal letter can lead to what some consider a double standard in religious policy, a court decision could do the things I have outlined much more easily). Remember that I don't expect any of that to happen, but they become substantially more likely as cases like this crop up. From what I have read, Terry is not vegetative and even if she did state her wish to die, it was only if she was vegetative. Pending my listening to these files, I contend that she should be kept alive. (Note: The information contained in this post is not intended to start a debate. If you want to, send me a PM, don't hijack this thread).

1. Part of the reason that the judge ruled in favor of pulling the tube is because a team of doctors had pronounced her as vegetative with no hope of recovery. I do not believe that she has been conversing.

2. No, there is no possibility of a cure for her in her lifetime. Her brain went without oxygen when she went into cardiac arrest. Brain cells (neurons) do no re-form. You are born with all that you have. I see this all of the time in the ICU; people go into cardiac arrest, are resuscitated, and lose their short term memory forever due to lack of oxygen.

3. Pulling her feeding tube, which is inserted through her belly is not the same as starving her to death. She cannot survive without artificially-supplied nutrition (LIFE SUPPORT). Without that tube she dies a NATURAL DEATH.

It is what she wanted, she did not want life support (feeding tube), and doctors have confirmed that she is a vegetable. Her husband stood by her for three years before starting his life over with another woman, so let's all cut him some slack.

Question: Why is the U.S. congress getting into this family squabble?

Answer: So Bush and the GOP can secure more do-gooder votes in the next election.

DarkMachine5 wrote:  She said she wanted to die if that ever happened. And Many doctors and judges say that she has no chance of recovering and that she doesnt respond to anything.  So i think if the husband wants to remove then tube i guess he should.   http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/21/schiavo/index.html - For they lazy www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/21/schiavo/index.html -

BS BS and more BS. First off she never physically said that she wants to die, there is no proof of it at all. The only person who wants her to die is her husband because hes afraid the police will find out how he abused her and controlled her life like the psycopath he is. He also wants her to die because he'll get 1.3 million dollars. Secondly physical and speech therapy  doctors who have looked at her said they have helped people in worse cases then her so there is a definite chance of recovery. Good job falling into all the false BS that the moronic liberals fed you.

I think that its a joke that they're starving her to death and I think both the first judge that took the feeding tube out and the second judge who just decided not to put it back in should be shot. Its inhumane to starve and dehidrate someone to death. While all of you sit home on your lazy butts not doing anything and getting food and water when you want this lady is dying. You will  never know what it is to be starving to death. For you people who think the feeding tube being taken out is the right choice why don't you talk to some of the jews that were in Auswitz, Dauchu, and Buchenwald and they'll tell you what its like to starve and thirst to death. I bet after you talk to them you'll change your mind. What they're doing is no better then what the Nazis did to the jews..but I guess the goverment thinks its ok because its one person not 6 million. I think this country a freaking joke.

ScarFace22 wrote: BS BS and more BS. First off she never pysically said that she wants to die, there is no proof of it at all. The only person who wants her to die is her husband because hes afraid the police will find out how he abused her and controlled her life like the psycopath he is. He also wants her to die because he'll get 1.3 million dollars.

And you know this... how?

She isnt going to be in pain when they take the tube out, her organs will just shut down like in a natural death. Doctors have said that.

But oh wait, im sure thats just some liberal doctor making things up, right Scarface>?

Clark Kent wrote: ScarFace22 wrote: BS BS and more BS. First off she never pysically said that she wants to die, there is no proof of it at all. The only person who wants her to die is her husband because hes afraid the police will find out how he abused her and controlled her life like the psycopath he is. He also wants her to die because he'll get 1.3 million dollars. And you know this... how?

Not only that, but her husband has been offered millions of dollars by multiple parties to just walk away and hand control over to her parents. That would seem to be a much easier way out.

Sorry for the political comments, but it really is none of congress' business.

Let me answer your post by number:

1. I can go either way on this issue, because children with cerebral palsy cannot take care of themselves, have a PEG tube for their feedings, and we do not pull the plug on them.

2. Not in your or my lifetime is there any hope for a cure to brain injuries. The only hope on the horizon is stem cell research, but we cannot even come close to curing the simplest of disease, such as diabetes that involves only creating one type of cell in the pancreas. Making a network of neurons that can function as a brain is another thing entirely.

3. I agree that it is up to the individual. I deal with these situations daily as an ICU nurse. There are people that we maintain on life support and run up million dollar hospital bills before they die. There are others who see the futility in their situation and pull the plug.

A. I do not know about Florida law, but if she were in Ohio, we would have pulled the plug 15 years ago when the husband said to.

B. Yes, doctors have been wrong before. But not in this case, it is a brain injury and neurons (brain cells) do not repair or relace themselves. Bad news for the ongoing stoner thread, they are a smart as they will ever get, but not as dumb.

Tae Kwon Do wrote: She isnt going to be in pain when they take the tube out, her organs will just shut down like in a natural death. Doctors have said that. But oh wait, im sure thats just some liberal doctor making things up, right Scarface>?

Are you that stupid! How can she not be in pain shes freaking starving to death. Your a moron.

Clark: Its been brought up many times by the media that she has physical marks of abuse and he would get money. You know what thats called..its called an MO a motive. He has a good enough modtive to want her dead.

ScarFace22 wrote: Are you that stupid! How can she not be in pain shes freaking starving to death. Your a moron.

Becuase her brain has the functioning power of tapioca pudding. And shes not getting any better.

Why not just let the poor woman die. Im tired of seeing the government use this situation to further its agenda. The family and others have offered the husband money to walk away. Trust me, here in Florida this story has been big before CNN and other big networks got ahold of it. Not to mention that parents are more attached, but the husband was closer. If you can show me some proof of the 'Abuse' then fine, but if not then just shut up about it.

Also I love the fact that you cant manage to get through one post without calling somebody a name. Becuase we all know calling somebody 'stupid' and a 'moron' gets your point across so much better.

Ok everybody what do you think about this-Say that your dog was in the same state as Terry and it had a feeding tube.  Would you remove the tube and let it die?

Da Best wrote: Ok everybody what do you think about this-Say that your dog was in the same state as Terry and it had a feeding tube.  Would you remove the tube and let it die?

Yes, and I'll yank hers, too.  Next question? 

Hey!

I think they should remove the  thing!

What's the point of keeping someone alive if they're just going to be a vegetable for the rest of their life.

She can't function at all.

Heck...half of her brain is liquified.

And she's never going to get better.

I know that if I were in her position, I'd hope my plug would be pulled so I wouldn't be wasting any more time and money that could be better spent.

BlackDeath7 wrote: No one on this planet has a right to decide if a still living person, not matter how crippled, should live or die.  Terry Schiavo should live.  Keep living Terry, we're fighting for you.

So your saying that if the family and everybody decieded it was her wish to die, you would still not support it?

Oh, and she would appreciate the support, if she had a brain with more power than a grapefruit.

BlackDeath7 wrote: Tae Kwon Do wrote: BlackDeath7 wrote: No one on this planet has a right to decide if a still living person, not matter how crippled, should live or die.  Terry Schiavo should live.  Keep living Terry, we're fighting for you. So your saying that if the family and everybody decieded it was her wish to die, you would still not support it? Oh, and she would appreciate the support, if she had a brain with more power than a grapefruit. I like all these hypothetical situations, present me with some facts please.

The first one was a hypothetical pointed to you.

Are you against EVERYBODY and ANYBODY who decides to 'Pull the plug' on life support? Even if it is in the will and the family is unanimous? It sure seems that way.

ScarFace22 wrote: Liberals are so retarted its not funny. To many people believe every freaking thing the liberals feed them its a joke.

And you dont belive everything your side tells you...right....

You dont come off biased, only spouting AM radio retoric.

Oh, and when you bring personal insults into it, it really makes your argument seem top notch, keep it up.

BlackDeath7 wrote: There are many allegations of abuse.  One nurse reported to the hospital and to police (this is fact, don't try to refute me on this one) that Michael Shiavo kicked her out of the room for 20 minutes so he could be alone with Terry.  When the nurse returned, Terry was sweating profusely, crying, and her blood sugar was almost non-existant.  The nurse then looked in the garbage and found an empty bottle of insuline and injection marks under her breast and in her groin area.  There was also one time when Terry's hand was starting to contract(unvoluntarily).  The nurses put a rag into her hand to prevent her fingers from becoming clenched together, which would prevent muscle loss in her hand and fingers as well as prevent sores from developing inside her hand(this is what a licensed nurse has told me, I'm not saying this off the top of my head).  If she can feel pain, it would end up hurting and be very difficult for her to open her hand again.  Do you know what Michael Schiavo did?  He told the nurses to remove the rag and said, "That's therapy.  You can't do that."  There are also many other allegations of abuse which have been compiled together and released for investigation.  Keep living Terry, we're fighting for you.

I would like some sort of CREDIBLE news source for all of that you just said.

I will come back and clean out this thread later, I have to go to work now.

Tae Kwon Do wrote: ScarFace22 wrote: Liberals are so retarted its not funny. To many people believe every freaking thing the liberals feed them its a joke. And you dont belive everything your side tells you...right.... You dont come off biased, only spouting AM radio retoric. Oh, and when you bring personal insults into it, it really makes your argument seem top notch, keep it up.

No but I believe more about what the Republicans say then the Democrats because the Rubublicans actually take morality and right from wrong into consideration.

BlackDeath7 wrote: Badsmitty wrote: Da Best wrote: Ok everybody what do you think about this-Say that your dog was in the same state as Terry and it had a feeding tube.  Would you remove the tube and let it die? Yes, and I'll yank hers, too.  Next question?  You disgust me.  What gives you the right to take the life of someone who is still living?  You don't know her degree of mental awareness.  I can't even find the right word to describe you.  I'm glad you're not in any position to care for injured people like Terry.   I want you to  answer the  question I have posed to you.

Yes, and I'll yank yours, too.  Next question?