Ok, to be politically correct, there is no such thing as a sniper in paintball. Sniping is considered shooting from a long distance. In paintball, lond distances mean no accuracy. Try searching for other threads about this.

Also, if you sit in a tree, you WILL get lit up.

Rio258K wrote: Going up in a tree is a baaaaaad idea....... I know that and I play speedball!

lol thats so true... but at the same time if u think u can sit in the tree and not be seen then go for it .... dont shoot unless ur going to mark EVERY person with in ur range all at once cause i wouldnt doubt that even ur team mates not knowing u are that would splater u..... not to mention if u fell out it would hurt

You should always position yourself where you can escape in woodsball, unless you are trying to complete a specific mission, where getting hit is likely.

A sniper in paintball is not like in the service... with the very best barrel the farthest shot you will make is about 300', and the accuracy at that range will be very poor.  A true sniper takes one shot and fades into the back ground.  That is not likely to happen in paintball... but it is fun to try and make the miracle shot sometimes and reposition yourself, or play a little different after your position has been noticed.

i believe in paintball sniping is shooting a person across the field with 1 shot NOT pray n spray and being a sharp shot is shooting someone on the run 20 yards away.  also you should only go in a tree when it is not over 50 ft high and a lot of leaves on it.

_____________________

Kyle aka piro031 or AJAX

I don't know why you would want to be in a tree. When some one spots you, which will happen, you are going to be sorry.

 Well you figure the scientific definition for something accelerating downward  ( read = example : a paintball ) is projectile motion (lol I payed attention in science class for once). This means that gravity is pulling the object towards the ground in a curved way. A tree would work , but is a VERY BAD IDEA!  I wouldn't want anyone to get lit up and risk falling out of a tree. Aim higher than the target by atleast an inch or two and your shot should hit.

Hope this helps you out    Hang in there                      

Cool, a sniper debate!

By chance does anyone remember what the question was?  Or did eveyone suddenly feel the need to talk out of their ass?

Attackpotatoe,

In response to your question, it depends.  The best tactics are either learned from professionals like the police or military tactical units or learned through trial and error.  The biggest problem is that not every technique will work for everyone.  The fun part is getting together with your friends and finding out what works for your team and what doesn't. 

What some of the responces have tried to say here is that whatever position you decide to shoot from, you will need to have an escape plan.  So basically, you do not want to be in a position that will leave you trapped.  And also, don't be afraid to try new ideas.  You never know what will work unless you try it.  So play hard and have fun.

yall are funny it's gotta be a trench because i mean all they can see is your gun and your head. And if your watching you can know when to duct(i mean duck)

oh i agree it's not worth climbing up a tree and possibly falling out.

piro031 wrote: i believe in paintball sniping is shooting a person across the field with 1 shot NOT pray n spray and being a sharp shot is shooting someone on the run 20 yards away.  also you should only go in a tree when it is not over 50 ft high and a lot of leaves on it.   _____________________ Kyle aka piro031 or AJAX

Ahahaha This is like the perfect recipe for killing your self. Yes please climb fifty feet in the air and then fall from that tree because you will be spotted  because the tree will be shaking..  Then as you hit the ground at 53 miles per hour (depending how many branches you hit on the way down.)

And now secondly, there is no such thing as a farther shooting barrel the flatlines exempt from this, end of story. It Is all simple physic's a paintball gun barrel does not apply to the same principles as an actual rifle barrel. In paintball the ball is filled with liqiud It is not completly solid so putting a spin on the paintball will cause the ball to wobble in mid air completly defeating accuracy.

Thirdly, if you would like to become a camper take somewhere higher up its simple logic the higher you are the more arc you can make lobing paintballs in the air..

the only time being up in a tree is a good idea is on acid, or, when your playing sniper while someone in another tree or on the ground has your 6

Unicorn wrote: You don't sniper somebody, the correct term is snipe. A sniper is a noun, a person who snipes. Of which there are none in paintball. It's interesting that the people who are generally on the side of no such thing as snipers in paintball are the ones who are or were in the military, or police.

Incorrect.

snip·er    https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsniper"> ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (snpr)
n.

1. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.
2. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place

 

I.E. there are snipers in paintball. You people are thinking way into this and have watched too much TV. Sniping origins have nothing to do with how far you can shoot. It has to do with steath tactics.

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This sig is brought to you by Psyrecx, thanks to D-Town Balla.

Psyrecx wrote: snip·er    https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsniper"> ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (snpr) n. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place   I.E. there are snipers in paintball. You people are thinking way into this and have watched too much TV. Sniping origins have nothing to do with how far you can shoot. It has to do with steath tactics.

Uggghh So the rest of the people on the feild march around banging a drum wearing bright red shirts....

http://www.webdogradio.us/video/tipclip/s2/2WDR27.wmv - http://www.webdogradio.us/video/tipclip/s2/2WDR27.wmv

watch that.

the_blade wrote: Uggghh So the rest of the people on the feild march around banging a drum wearing bright red shirts....

No, but there is a difference between being stealthy and being inconspicuous.

As for the video just like  the guy said. It's his humble opinion. But snipers originated a long time ago, back then weapons were about as accurate as a paintball gun if not less. Not to mention it also has to do with being a skill marks man. If you read around alot of people beleive in accuracy by volume. That disqualifies you as a sniper. A skill marksmen should be able to hit a target with minimal use of ammo.

if you are trying to snipe really its sneaking up on the enemy and shooting a shoot that you know you can hit him so buy or make a very nice ghille suit and lay up against a tree or in between sticks that have fallen on the ground

You Wont See Me wrote: So everyone who uses stealth is a sniper? YAy all teh woodsballers are snipers.

Cool, I get to be a sniper now.  Does the level of stealth matter, I don't move as well in the woods as I used to.

just buy a ghillie suit and its better to stay in low positions , like lieing down in brush or in bushes, in remote sections of the field, read this artical and join the brigade! enter 8851 when signing up

http://www.specialopspaintball.com/articles/the_true_paintball_sniper.asp - http://www.specialopspaintball.com/articles/the_true_paintba ll_sniper.asp

Unicorn wrote: I don't learn my tactics from TV. I'm not sniper qualitifed, but I do know a couple. One was a former Marine sniper instructor, the other is a former scout (and sniper) who is now in my unit. Did I mention that I have a total of 12 years in the Army and Army National Guard, most of it as an infantry (air assault and light) soldier, now a combat engineer (mechanised)? That's why I have a disdain for the wannabes who call themselves snipers. Since you like to babble about shooting from concealed places, I guess that if during a squad or platoon ambush, if we only shot one shot each then we'd all be snipers? I guess that everytime an infantryman (or any MOS really) who uses cover and concealment could be sniper if they only shoot once, even in CQB or MOUT situations. WOW! We need to pass this on to the Infantry school at Ft. Benning, and MCB Quantico. They are wasting milions of dollars on sniper schools, to train snipers, when all they have to do is tell everyone to hide when they shoot. Anyway, sort of mostly back on topic here. Is it safe to shoot down at somebody? It's the same as shooting at a prone person, but I'm a bit afraid of hitting somebody in the edge of their goggles, and knocking them off, or at least low enough to expose their eyes.

They have to train snipers because not everyone can just pick up a gun and shoot it. Did you not read the part about being a skill marksmen .. or did your time in the national guard hamper youir ability to read?

oldsoldier wrote: Just a note from a qualified, combat expierienced "sniper", the techniques of the skill are NOT readily adaptable to the short ranged, close combat world of paintball. Proven at many a scenario, and woods game by those who have encountered myself or attended any of my tactical lectures at the TWC series. Reading a definition from the dictionary, and not knowing or having the basic skills required other than "hide and hope" does not make you a "paintball sniper".

Right, but that doesn't mean it can't or doesn't exsist.

Every weapon has its limits. Even the best sniper rifle isnt perfect. Its how you use it. and the second part can easily be accomplished.

http://paintball.about.com/b/a/109591.htm - http://paintball.about.com/b/a/109591.htm

So pretty much by your statement if two snipers engage eachother that cancels them out as snipers because if they are using similar weapons then neither of them are outside eachothers range of fire. Experience is only as good as the person who experiences it. Furthermore, I can claim to be whatever I want on the internet as well. For all you know I could have been a sniper for longer than you or in the military for longer than you. So you can throw your "experiences" right out the window. Also not everyone is restricted to the same ballistics. Not all guns fire the same, not all paintballs fly the same. Some are more accurate some less. So tecnically you can shoot at somebody outside of their range of fire. Different combinations of equipment have different ranges of fire. Look at the stock Tippmann barrels vs the flatlines.

oldsoldier wrote: It does mean that from a purely tactical application no one has applied the tenents of the skill with any effect in the sport. If qualified, trained and practiced "snipers" can not adapt thier training in the application within the game, how can an amateaur qualify the role and tactical tenent. From an objective, and trained eye, the skill of sniper in a pure tactical tenent with the scope of the game of paintball, can't and doesn't exsist. Basic tenent #1 of the skill is to engage your target from outside of immediate, accurate and effective return fire. Where within the scope of the game can the sniper be out of immediate, accurate, and effective return fire range when the balistics of paintball limit the range, trajectory, and cone of fire. Basic tenent #2 is to position your hide outside of visual aquisition range (universally agreed upon as 250meters for the human eye to readily distinguish shape, and color contrast) using proper camoflauge, cover and concealment techniques, in order to prevent visual aquisition on the shot, and preventing immediate, accurate, and effective return fire. To bad that part is not in then dictionary.......

OS (and SrCrewchief later on) are mostly right.  They have also both had posts in other siniper-related threads where they explain the six criteria they believe necessary for someone to be a sniper in paintball and those criteria are right on the money.  When I say mostly right, it is only because I think they are a bit two adamant on their points; I'll explain below:

• The anti-sniper crowd believes in the complete non-existence of snipers in paintball.  My problem with this is that it is impossible to prove the non-existence of something.  You can alway say that something exists and show it as proof; you can not say something does not exist and not show it as proof of it's non-existence.  In other words it is impossible to prove a negative.
• I disagree that the flatline does not have a maximum effective range advantage over standard barrels and I base this five years experience with using one.  The testing/science that OS quotes in a later post would also support my observations.  Although this sounds contradictory, my personal theory is that balls fired from the flatline are more likely to break at longer ranges because of the angle at which the force of the paintball is applied to the target.  Most long range flatline shots are not glancing hits from above, but are straight on hits.
  • For the members of the pro-sniper crowd that are now dancing in glee that there is a sniper barrel in paintball, I now say the following:  The flatline is not long range sniper barrel.  The inherent inaccuracy of paintballs at the longer flatline ranges prevents consistent single shot eliminations. 
  • What the flatline is at long ranges, is a very effective weapon for providing suppressive fire.  I will also admit that some of the long range "paint breaking" advantage I referred to above may be due as much to the flatlines ability to consistently get paint in the same general area at those ranges as it is due to the angle of impact of the paint.  I just have no way to personally observe this so I can't say for sure.  (Although I have had opponents refer to several bounces along with the hit that broke.)
• Probably the most significant area where I disagree with the anti-sniper crowd also involves the flatline.  While I maintain, that the flatline is not a long range sniper rifle, experience has shown it can be used as such at shorter ranges in the appropriate terrain.  In thick growth, which I play in often, I commonly engage other players in situations where I can hit them due to the flat trajectory provided by my barrel and they can't return effective fire because of the intervening branches, vines, etc.  There paint bursts harmlessly well in front of me. 
  • For you "snipers" out there, this does not make me a sniper.  Why?  Two main reasons:  I generally, make no effort to egress the area without further contact as I prefer instead to manuever in on them with other members of my team or to act as bait and draw them into an ambush.  Also I do not fire a single shot to limit their ability to locate me.  I prefer double-taps at targets to make sure they are out, then after I've eliminated the "sure-target" I like to engage whatever else is available.
  • Someone who met the critera of being a sniper on the other hand would take one target with one shot (from a barrel much quieter than my flatline) then cease fire to hinder the opponents' ability to pinpoint his location.  While the other team was still reacting to the initial elimination, the sniper would be withdrawing/repositioning to confuse/confound his opponents.

To make a long story short (which it is already to late for) I'll summarize.

I disagree with the anti-sniper folks for the following reasons:

• It is impossible to prove a negative (i.e. "there are no snipers in paintball because I've never seen one".)
• What I have seen is that the technology and skills are already present in the game (if used correctly)

I agree with the anti-sniper folks for the following reasons:

• While the skills and technology exist, I have never seen anyone (myself included*) utilize them all correctly/simultaneously to be a paintball sniper**
• All of the players I know who brag on their "sniper" skills do the following:
  • Only snipe when they are defending in a single flag game so they don't have to worry about tactics or being ambushed while they are setting up
  • Hide in the bushes, fire from out of range , miss, then run away to the center of an open field (because they fear being ambushed) rather than engage their opponents once fire is returned.  Of course, I could just be annoyed because they move faster than me and I don't feel like chasing them.

Conclusions: 

• Someplace a paintball sniper exists, it is not however among the people on this forum who feel that the ability to quote a dictionary definition automatically confers upon them the ability to be a sniper in woodsball.  It is not among those who ignore the advice and wisdom of the military/ex-military professionals who graciously share their hard-earned knowledge on this forum. 
• Everyone can call themselves whatever they want, but saying it does not make it so.  99.99% of the people who mount their soapbox to proclaim their sniperhood are campers who are afraid to risk taking a hit because of body/ego bruising.  They will either spend their entire day cowering in the brush or fleeing in circles around the field to avoid their opponents, with only the occasional lucky elimination of an unsuspecting newbie thrown in for variety.  The other 0.01% will be a joy to play against once I finally meet them.
  • For the snipers that are offended by my above statement:  Bummer.  Most rec-ballers will smile politely at you when you say "I'm a sniper", then wait for you to prove it on the field.  If you're good enough, they'll probably enjoy playing with/against you, if you're not, you'll be wearing a lot of their paint.

*I've been called a sniper by opponents, but I know better.  First, it wasn't sniping, it was an ambush.  Secondly, having done "sniper-type" missions in games where I had to do it to support my team, I found it very boring and decided it took the "rec" out of rec-ball.  I rate it as "no-fun-what-so-ever" and can't understand how the "snipers" that I described having observed earlier enjoy playing the game at all.

**Paintball sniper as opposed to sniper which is a military/law enforcement definition and requires specialized training/skills.  I sniper who played paintball could become a paintball sniper, the reverse is not necessarily true and is infact extremely unlikely.

**Deleted, and you are outta here!**

oldsoldier wrote: Psyrecx, do yourself a favor, Son, please do not continue to insult yourself. I am a current member of OMHW one of the best scenario paintball teams in the nation, I have witnesses and those who play around me that will verify my expertese on this as well as other matters concerning Light Infantry tactics and techniques. 23years Light Infantry, Airborne Ranger etc with a DD214 to back it all up. As for the "range" arguement, the flatline series does not truely increase range over straight barrels, it just lowers the trajectory arc to a more "flatline" at the same distance a straight barrel needs a high "sofball" arc to acomplish.. I was on Tippmanns Flatline project test group(combat expierience helps designers "idiotproof" designs so Joe Average paintballer can be assured of a working marker, was also on the A-5 test group, and Myself and Brad Stewart from Tippmann were the first players to use the prototype A-5's in a game enviorment, so there is a base to my knowledge on the subjects), and found the flatlines again only good for the standard 20-25m engagement ranges, out past that the spin with its increased drag co-efficient limited the impact energy to a no break velocity quicker than a straight barrel at the same distance. Did several chronograph and impact energy tests at selected ranges 10,15,20,25,30m and the results confirm impact energy of flatline fired rounds decreased at a higher rate past 20m than a standard straight barrel fired round, physics does not change. As for counter sniper techniques all is well and good in a hollywood sense but the true skill can not compare to the hollywood interpatation. Seldom in the real world is there a true sniper on sniper engagement, for it does not usually meet mission perameters, when artillery is a lot cheaper to use in the long run. A base tenent of the skill is to engage targets based on tactical need be it physcological and or casualty producing. Snipers generally engage line units equiped with standard infantry/assault rifles with a max effective range of approximately 250m (see the releative point on the range) with specially designed longer ranged (800m +/-)and or accurized with a CEP of less than 1MOH. The shot is generally taken between 500-700m as a standard with an immediate displacement of the sniper team (owing to the now probable indirect fire from mortars or artillery on any suspected position, and the enemy can get lucky) The average player should work more on TEAMWORK and small unit tactics rather than this misguided concept of paintball snipers. I prefere to engage our sniper wannabes because they are easy meat for a well trained and disiplined small unit using correct techniques in the close quarters world of paintball. And if there are "paintball snipers" out there my enemys "projected combat power" of the base unit is that much more diminished by the lone wolfs who DIP rather than act as part of the TEAM. If you are interested in further reading go to the A5OG website and read some of my postings and excerpts from my old website, the Interdiction Rifleman article may be of interest to you and those who believe as you.

Insulting myself, your the one who keeps dispelling things because they rarely happen, no matter how little the chance something may happend it is still possible. But you would rather say it doesn't exsist than admit the possiblitiy. You said so yourself seldom do snipers encounter and engage each other. Seldom still means it occationally happens. Maybe the next thing you should buy before you go back and play with your teammates at OHMW is a clue.

Back to the subject… I went up in a tree once, to get on my roof. I then ran across, hopped down the other side and successfully flanked my opponents. Other then shooting over the top of something like a fence I would never go into a tree – no good with ranged weapons.

Psyrecx there is no program to qualify anyone as a paintball sniper for a reason. 90% of you couldn’t hit a pie pan at 100 yards with an M-1 much less even qualify as riflemen. I would love to see your range finding skills. For paintball if you work it as a MOA thing; hitting a large postage stamp at 25 meters on 4 out of 5 shots is like hitting a 20” silhouette at 500 yards. That is about as close as you could get to even calling yourself a paintball rifleman.

You people no nothing of either of us. I don't care what he may think he knows or may have forgotten, yet again he is not  soldier, will never be a soldier. Furthermore, who actually said I was 14. I'm probably older than you. It was just another moronic comment he made which proves yet again the validity of his statements. P.S. it's "Sonny", sunny would mean if its bright out.

Okay fellas, I think thats about enough of that.

Psyrecx, everyone who reads this is laughing at you. Age regardless, your actions and linguistic skills are reminicient of a 14 year old. Anyone with the wisdom of age would hardly use the terms "backwoods orgy" or "spank an old geezer" so I'm gonna go ahead and call your "I'm probably older than you" line bull cookies and move on.

OS, and SR, once again when reason fails to sway the children, they resort to namecalling and frail verbal abuse. I'm sorry you had to invest your time for so futile an effort this time. Don't let it deter you from enlightening others.

This thread is locked. Why? Two reasons. One, it serves no more purpose to debate this, when all of one sides arguments have been shot to hell, and the defender falls back on childish insults and namecalling. Kudos Psyrexc, you murdered this thread.   

Two, I'm throwing this one to the dogs before the children decide to turn this into a flame fest that makes the california wildfires look like a barbecue. Have a wonderful day, and try not to crap up any more of my threads.