wow... discrimination at its finest
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Topic: wow... discrimination at its finest
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Subject: wow... discrimination at its finest
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:14am
So, at my college, it is pretty easy to start a club. Now, in
order to get funding and what not you have to go through the student
government (SGA). So anyway, this uber conservative christian
group wanted to form up. Only thing, in their constitution (every
club is required to have one) they blatently discriminate agains
homosexuals. That is actually just part of their completely
rediculious rules. Here is a direct quote from their constitution: Now, granted... great...they wanna follow the bible, but think hard about this... its college. sex, drunkenness, profanity... bwhahahaha. anyway... Now the part that really irks me and put the SGA in a predicament is the whole homosexual thing. Now, I was talking to the pres. at lunch today and he made a good point. There are only 2 sides to this argument and no inbetween. One side says that it's wrong, the club is blatently discriminating and should not be approved. On the other side, people are saying that this a religious organization and you can't infringe on their beliefs. Unfortunately the club did get approved due to legal issues and the possibility of the school losing a lot of money to these die-hard christians. Figured that I'd join in on making one of these controversial topics. Discuss. |
Replies:
Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:18am
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That is one sheltered club.
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:20am
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They have their rights too. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:21am
| Very touchy subject, especially since it is on a college campus. It would depend on the individual constitution of the college. Everyone has their rules in groups; however, this one might just take things a little too far. However, they have the right to bar individuals, but there is a limit. |
Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:22am
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Dont like it, Dont join their Club.... Seems pretty simple to me. Your
not a hardcore christian if your homosexual anyway, So I dont see where
the problem is...
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:22am
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I understand it... I just find it amazing that there would be people out there that have the balls to make this group. This group gets approved... but the liberal students org. can't hand out condoms... Dune: it goes farther than the school's constitution and rules. We do have rules, but SGA and the school faced legal problems if they did deny this club. I'm not for sure about the details, but I do know that lawyers were involved. Stealth: I understand... I'm actually tempted to try to get a club past that straight up discriminates. We actually have said that a KKK club could technically get approved if they wanted to and do everything right. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:27am
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There are plenty of hardcore christians that are homosexuals. Just like thare are plenty of hardcore christians that eat meat on Fridays of lent. |
*Stealth* wrote:Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:30am
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Well it is their club so they can technically do what they want.
I don't totally agree on everything but yeah... w/e floats their boat... ------------- 
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Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:31am
The majority of Christian divisions eat meat on friday, Catholics are about the only ones against that.. There is pretty much just one sect of christian faith, and I dont recall what it is at the moment that openly allows homosexuals... However, If you are a hardcore christian you follow scripture which clearly is against homosexuality... So no matter how hardcore you want to act, if your homosexual you arn't realy following the faith... ------------- |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:34am
| Being a hardcore christian doesn't mean you have to follow the bible literally. If you make life choices that are different but do your best to follow it as much as possible, then you can be a hardcore christian. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:36am
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Dune and Stealth, I'm episcapalion which is a branch from catholism, yet nothing says no meat... must be only certain branches of catholism -------------
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Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:36am
That stands for arguement.. Can you be a hardcore patriot if you do something that is blatently against your nations laws? I dont see how you can be really that hardcore if you do something you know is blatently against what your so hardcore about. To me, that just makes the individual a hypocrite... a wannabe. ------------- |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:43am
Well they can do what they want to a point... |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:44am
| Then it would be safe to say that there are few hardcore christians in society. Because most do not follow the faith to the literal meaning. By saying that, it's unfair to many of those that lead good, honest lives and get the most of their relgion. If they're homosexual, it's just a detail. |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:48am
| plus... the whole idolatry thing is a joke... just look at the pope. |
Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:50am
Thats a good point... It's all point of view I suppose. ------------- |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:50am
| I agree, it's all about perspective. |
Posted By: whoknowswho
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:57am
| I don't know, the part that states that homosexuality is an abomination and the several mentions of the penalties for commiting homosexual acts seems kinda cut and dried to me. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:58am
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Which parts are those? Chapter/verse? |
Posted By: warlord88
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 12:45pm
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LEVITICUS 18-22 " Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:it is abomintion."
LEVITICUS 20-13 " If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with woman, both of them have commtitted an abomintion: They shall surely be put to death; their blood SHALL BE upon them." this pretty much says it in a nutshell i think. ------------- A-5 E-grip J&J 14 in. 2 piece ceramic 16 in. smart part progressive tough coat finish 8 in. lapco centerflag 68/3000 HPA AKA sidewinder JCS adjustable blade trigger |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 12:53pm
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That is certainly the most commonly cited reference. Here are my questions: 1. "lie with" - How do you know this means sex? Maybe it means sleepover? And if it means sex, what kind of sex (there are different kinds...)? And if it means sex, what about kissing and holding hands? If kissing isn't adultery, then perhaps two men kissing isn't "lieing with"? Is it an abomination to hug your buddy? Seems like there is a lot of extrapolation going on here... 2. What about lesbians?
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Posted By: B_Wet A-5
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 12:57pm
what find of club is this ------------- I need smallers sigs. AVIATOR GANG 
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Posted By: warlord88
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 12:58pm
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if you don't believe thats find with me, i read it the way i do, you read it your way. i happen to agree with the fact that it means "sex with". ------------- A-5 E-grip J&J 14 in. 2 piece ceramic 16 in. smart part progressive tough coat finish 8 in. lapco centerflag 68/3000 HPA AKA sidewinder JCS adjustable blade trigger |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:01pm
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Boy, from the looks of it, this is an exciting club to join.... ------------- 
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:02pm
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So two guys kissing is ok, then. Good to know. And no problem with lesbians. Also good to know. But I don't think the point of the Bible is that you get to read it "your way" - I think you have to read it "God's way". |
Posted By: warlord88
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:08pm
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ROMANS 1-24 " Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. "
1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 "Know ye not the unrighteous shall not inherit the kinggdom of God? Be not decieved; neither fornicators, nor adulterers, nor effeinate, nor abusers of themselves of with mankind, Nor thieves, nor extortioners, shall inherit the knigdom of God." here are 2 more for you to chew on. ------------- A-5 E-grip J&J 14 in. 2 piece ceramic 16 in. smart part progressive tough coat finish 8 in. lapco centerflag 68/3000 HPA AKA sidewinder JCS adjustable blade trigger |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:09pm
| Well, why can't they do that? **edited** people don't belong in a club like that. If they don't wont **edited** people in their club, they have a right to not have them in it. I personally wouldn't want a **edited** person in a club like that. |
Posted By: warlord88
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:10pm
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So two guys kissing is ok, then. Good to know
its not asin to kiss your father, brother, son, nephew, cousin, grandfather. should i go on with that meaning? ------------- A-5 E-grip J&J 14 in. 2 piece ceramic 16 in. smart part progressive tough coat finish 8 in. lapco centerflag 68/3000 HPA AKA sidewinder JCS adjustable blade trigger |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:19pm
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And to think breeder are invited to join the nonbreeder's clubs at other college campuses.
I would apply and swear all over the application. Maybe the GLTA Chapter on your campus should challenge them to a pillow fight. ------------- 
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:30pm
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The words of Paul - hardly the words of God. But, be that as it may.
Uselessly vague.
"Effeminate" is translated differently in different versions, but going with yours - does that mean that bears are ok, it's just the drag queens that are in trouble? And I will take from your other post that it is in fact ok for two guys to cuddle, hug, kiss, make out, gaze lovingly into each others' eyes, whisper sweet nothings, so long as they do it without a lisp. Not sure where oral sex falls - the Bible doesn't mention that. BTW - isn't it physically impossible for a man to "lie with a man as with a woman"? I'm sorry - if this "law" were drafted by Congress, it would be thrown out by the courts as too vague. I don't see how anybody can base their beliefs on this. Justify their existing prejudices, yes. But use this as a foundation? Shouldn't be done. |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:37pm
Ok Clark, now I am a wee bit disturbed. -------------
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Posted By: oreomann33
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:41pm
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join it and then bring it down or something.
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:42pm
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You forgot grope, tickle, spank, caress, stroke, lick, and fondle. -------------
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:43pm
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Better yet - have a bunch of closeted homosexuals join, and then come out loudly and publicly... :) |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:44pm
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Oooooh, spank - Good to know that tying up my loverboy and spanking him is not forbidden by the Bible. Good catch, Hades. |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:46pm
Horsey outfit, tonight? 
Back to work for me... :I -------------
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:47pm
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Mmm.... Horsey outfit... Gotta go look for it now...
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 1:52pm
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Ahh yes....some of my favorites. |
Posted By: Hitman
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 2:41pm
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This is my kind of party. The Bible is full of vagueness, that is why their are so many branches of Christianity. ------------- |
Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 3:13pm
| That club = nerd fest. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 3:24pm
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 3:28pm
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I'm trying to help you here, Bugg: If you had taken 15 seconds to look up fornication before making this post you would know what it means, and you would know that your post is silly, and you would avoid looking like an idiot. So many of your posts could be avoided by simply thinking for a minute, or visiting google/dictionary/other resource, before typing. When you spout off without checking first you end up looking bad, and people make fun of you. Open book before mouth. |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 3:28pm
Wrong. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 3:33pm
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 3:37pm
| There are still (a few) Shakers around... |
Posted By: soonerdude05
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 4:44pm
2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Hmmm... I guess the words of Paul do matter ------------- 
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Posted By: soonerdude05
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 5:02pm
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[QUOTE=warlord88]LEVITICUS 18-22 " Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:it is abomintion."
LEVITICUS 20-13 " If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with woman, both of them have commtitted an abomintion: They shall surely be put to death; their blood SHALL BE upon them." this pretty much says it in a nutshell i think.[/QUOTE That's Old Testament. New Testament is what tells us what we are supposed to do. The old laws have been done away with. They were replaced with the new laws when Christ died. Anyway this should help some: Romans 1:26-27 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:" "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and recieving in themselves that recompence of their error which was due." -------------
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Posted By: warlord88
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 5:08pm
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the bottom line i do not believe that is right. call me a bigot or whatever it's just the way i am. i don't base this on the bible either, you asked for chapters and verses and i gave them to you. i base it on simple evolution. Here it goes MAN+MAN= the end of mankind. now the same is true when you take WOMAN+WOMAN= you know what the answer is? the same thing. it just goes against the natural order of life itself. ------------- A-5 E-grip J&J 14 in. 2 piece ceramic 16 in. smart part progressive tough coat finish 8 in. lapco centerflag 68/3000 HPA AKA sidewinder JCS adjustable blade trigger |
Posted By: soonerdude05
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 5:20pm
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I agree with the man+man= end of mankind and same for women cuz that is pretty obvious too anyway
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Posted By: Hitman
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 5:42pm
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... I wouldn't worry about it ending mankind ...
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Posted By: TruePaintballer
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 5:52pm
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i would approve the club ------------- http://www.freewebs.com/outlawspaintball/index.htm - Outlaws *Sponsors* http://www.abrika.ca - Abrika |
Posted By: soonerdude05
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 6:08pm
Well I'm not too worried about mankind being ended by that. It would take everyone sharing those feelings and I know I at least never will. -------------
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 9:48pm
why not? what if they're religious and want to join in on practicing their faith? |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 9:55pm
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Assuming you are talking about biological evolution, then you are twice wrong. Evolution carries no moral imperative - it can't. Evolution just IS - it has nothing to do with "should". That is a meaningless connection. And even if evolution did have some moral relevance, you would be unfounded in your view that evolution is somehow "against" homosexuality. Your "the species will die out" argument is simplistic and not consistent with evolutionary theory. So - you say you are not basing your view on the Bible. Your claim that your view is supported by "evolution" is incorrect. Maybe it's time to change your view? |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 9:56pm
| BTW, procarb - this is at MSOE? |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 9:58pm
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yes sir it is.... a very conservative campus... btw... you should go to sam's big game! |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 10:00pm
| Not a big fan of Sam's... too much cheating for me (at least last time I played there). I do go to Dave's scenario games when I can, though. |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 10:03pm
| ah... well ya could at least come and hang out with a bunch of us... free to play... i'll throw ya some paint if you wanna play with a pump... |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 10:05pm
| lol - when is it again? |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 10:06pm
| April 30th and may 1st... i'll prolly only be there for sat. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 10:10pm
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Aaah... going to Chicago to visit family that weekend (as if the wife would let me go hang out at the paintball place anyway)... But have fun. :)
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Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 7:45am
Clark thanks for your "help" but just visited dictionary.com and this is what they had Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion Pronunciation: "for-n&-'kA-sh&n Function: noun Etymology: Late Latin fornicatio, from fornicare to have intercourse with prostitutes, from Latin fornic- fornix arch, vault, brothel : consensual sexual intercourse between a man and esp. single woman who are not married to each other; also : the crime of engaging in fornication —compare -------------
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Posted By: Dazed
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 8:14am
Here are some other verses from that series of rules in Leviticus, how well are they kept?
No cotton/polyester blends? No tomatos, carrots, and watermelons in the back yard? No dog crossbreeds? Oh the shameful sins of mankind...
I hope you don't like rare steaks, or anything less than medium-well...
Now tell me, how is your hair cut?
I like this one. A lot of conservative christians need to memorize it instead of the first one you quoted. Jesus was far more tolerant than dominant. Thats what made him righteous. I'm only a little late to this party, but I still think there is a point here. |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 10:09am
heh... thanks Dazed... that just sealed it. Voting memebers have
to abide by the scripture. So... pretty much... it will be
impossible to follow all those rules. So they will have no voting
members and just dissolve as a group. GG Uber Christians!!!
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 10:34am
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This is the relevant part, Bugg... read slower. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 10:36am
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Dazed - I'll have to dig it up, but doctrine is that the "uncleanliness" rules from the OT were overruled by Jesus. There is scripture to back that up. It does get a little tricky figuring out which rules exactly are effective and which are not, but there is some Biblical foundation for throwing out some of the old rules... |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 10:43am
| ah... well maybe i'll do some research... maybe i'll just let the group dissolve by themselves... either way... that post by Dazed made me giggle a bit. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 11:29am
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This is really a lot like the KKK. Only its with the bible. I would think its completely legal, and as it is, there is discrimination every single day. Every time you park your car, there is discrimination, handicaped parking spaces. Not all discrimination is bad. Colleges discriminate CONSTANTLY, this is relativly insignificant. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 11:36am
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Very true, and lost on most people. I'll go further - most discrimination is GOOD. |
Posted By: Dazed
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 11:55am
I know, something about dissolving the old covenant, and making a new one. Close to the time of the crucifiction, I think. I just figured that if he wanted to throw around old jewish laws as new christian teachings I could as well. Jesus never really laid down that many laws himself. He pretty much just said to be good to one another, do your best, and respect god and his house. The apostles, however, were confining, and completely vague about most of it. I think that was more politics and survival of the church than any godly decree, though. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 11:59am
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But its written in the bible that the "politics" of the church will be made holy law. What the church makes law on earth, so will god make law in heaven. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dazed
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 12:02pm
| Reference passage? |
Posted By: warlord88
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 1:11pm
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i believe that in my on eyes its wrong. in my heart its wrong, in my mind it wrong. now i am who i believe i am . you cannot turn this around, because it is what i am, end of story. ------------- A-5 E-grip J&J 14 in. 2 piece ceramic 16 in. smart part progressive tough coat finish 8 in. lapco centerflag 68/3000 HPA AKA sidewinder JCS adjustable blade trigger |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 1:12pm
| Translation: I am a closed-minded bigot with no rational basis for my views that I refuse to change. |
Posted By: slacker guy
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 1:23pm
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Posted By: warlord88
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 4:15pm
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yeap i guess so, you believe in your ways and i believe in mine. call me what you will words are only words. ------------- A-5 E-grip J&J 14 in. 2 piece ceramic 16 in. smart part progressive tough coat finish 8 in. lapco centerflag 68/3000 HPA AKA sidewinder JCS adjustable blade trigger |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 4:30pm
Said by paul in a leter to the romans. I cant tell you the exact passage off hand. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: The Crimson
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:18pm
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I am Christian, but some of these "super religious christians" take it to far. I dont really care if somebody is **edited**, as long as their not hittin on me. But this is seriously taking there homophobia to far. They need to go to a private school if they want to do something like that. ------------- To Become What I Became I've viewed the sun for the last time |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:19pm
They dont need to go to a private school, they can form a club!  And this doesnt have anything to do with homophobia.------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: warlord88
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 8:30pm
i never i could not tolelrate **edited**s, i said i don't agree with them. my cousin is **edited** and i still love him because he is family, i just don't agree with him. to set and call someone a bigot is a very harse statement in itself. i may not like someone i work with, but i try to tolerate them as long as they do the same for me. calling me a bigot is saying i hate **edited** people, but i don't just disagree with them, just like you disagree with me. but do you hate me? more than likely not. ------------- A-5 E-grip J&J 14 in. 2 piece ceramic 16 in. smart part progressive tough coat finish 8 in. lapco centerflag 68/3000 HPA AKA sidewinder JCS adjustable blade trigger |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 8:33pm
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this is a private school... but in no way a religious school... |
Posted By: AdmiralSenn
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 8:45pm
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On the original topic: The group, from the little excerpt posted, does not seem to be a hate group, they simply want members to not sin. As somebody said, there aren't exactly huge numbers of diehard Christian homosexuals anyway.
And for the rest of this thread, as silly as it has been, I'll make it short and sweet, and those who want one of my semi-famous lecture posts can PM me. Romans 1. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Before anyone starts the argument that God caused homosexuality, I advise doing some research. Second: To those who want to know why we don't follow all the rules of the Old Testament: Acts 15. 22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul– 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. Basically, Gentiles should follow the rules about food sacrificed to idols, about eating blood, about eating strangled animals and from sexual immorality. Third, as for my opinion on the whole 'homosexuality would destroy humanity' and so on... I believe that if an act, should it be practiced by every single person on earth, would result in the destruction of the human race, it should be VERY CAREFULLY considered before being allowed into law. I won't go into the nature vs whatever bit, because that always turns into a debate. Back on topic: This group is allowed to do what they have done. I think, procarbinefreak, you're being a tiny bit too sensitive (don't take this as an attack, think of it as constructive criticism). It doesn't even mean that homosexually oriented people can't join, they just can't be having homosexual sex/any other sex prohibited by their rules. Remember that by those rules, the other members are also abstaining from having sex, something many students find baffling and unthinkable. They ask nothing of homosexuals that they do not ask of themselves. There are in fact college students who don't have sex. And by the way, 'drunkenness' doesn't mean not having alcohol, it simply refers to not being totally smashed. The Bible ENCOURAGES drinking of wine and so on, just in moderation. ------------- Is God real? You'll find out when you die.
Okay, I don't have a clever signature zinger. So sue me. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 8:50pm
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Reasearch Nature Vs. Nurture. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: warlord88
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 8:56pm
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bravo Adminal Senn. ------------- A-5 E-grip J&J 14 in. 2 piece ceramic 16 in. smart part progressive tough coat finish 8 in. lapco centerflag 68/3000 HPA AKA sidewinder JCS adjustable blade trigger |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 9:22pm
Uh, no—there isn't exactly a large number of homosexuals period, AdmiralSenn. However, most that I do know are Christian, and the fact that they are still following a religion that treats them unfairly amazes me. It's pretty "hardcore," I'd say.
Further, it's not a sin according to Church doctrine to be a homosexual; it's a sin to take part in homosexual activities. It's funny how so many "diehard" Christians don't understand this about their own faith—too much AM radio, perhaps?
Sophistry at its finest! You probably shouldn't go into that very much because, honest to God, that's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read from you, Senn.
Truthfully, you could have only typed this part, and the post would have been just dandy. Excusing the rhetoric from earlier, you're right on target. And concerning various other locutions: Isn't Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament? And, since I'd rather not research, care to tell me how—if God created mankind—He did not create homosexuality. Goodnight! ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 9:24pm
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Except with the "lust for one another" part, this is so awfully vague. I'm still not sure if this is about homosexuality or doggystyle. What is a "shameful lust"? "Indecent acts"? This Biblical argument is becoming very circular...
If you propose outlawing every act that would lead to the destruction of the human race if practiced by every single person on earth, nothing would be legal. If everybody had steak for dinner, we would destroy the ecosystem. If everybody had fish for dinner, we would destroy the ecosystem. If everybody chopped down a tree, we would destroy the ecosystem. If everybody took a crap at the same time, we would die from the stink. That is an irrelevant standard. Moreover, it is wrong. Homosexuality doesn't make you sterile. You just don't get pregnant from homosexual sex. Plenty of homosexuals have natural children. Speaking of which - if everybody always had sex with condoms, the race would die out. Should condoms be illegal? How about vasectomies - if everybody had one of those, we would also die out. I don't buy this argument. Not even a little bit. |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 9:30pm
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 11:21pm
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Senn, I wouldn't have taken that as a personal attack anyway... this is a debate... throw out your opinion. I know i'm being a little too liberal about this, but its what i wanted to do. I just think its kinda wierd that they say follow the rules of the scripture, and there are so many outrageous rules that would have to be followed.... but whatever! the situation made the news |
Posted By: AdmiralSenn
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 6:58pm
Now then.
You guys are making yourselves work harder by making my argument more extreme than it needs to be. Don't put words in my mouth. It's funny, either people are too literal (Bible references) or too quick to infer (any of my thoughts).
Read what I posted above, in Acts 15. It explains why non-Jews don't have to follow the Old Testament Laws excepting the ones listed. ------------- Is God real? You'll find out when you die.
Okay, I don't have a clever signature zinger. So sue me. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 7:06pm
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Allow me to restate: I will make inferences about the meanings of things, including the Bible. Inferences are necessary and appropriate for most things. BUT - we are not talking about "most things". We are talking about declaring behavior/feelings/people/something EVIL and a SIN and an ABOMINATION. For that, we ought to hold ourselves to a higher standard. What if Congress passed a law: "Shameful lusts are punishable by 10-15 year in prison." You would have riots, because that is an incredibly vague standard. When you are creating a law - Biblical or otherwise - there NEEDS to be clarity, otherwise it isn't a law at all. If you have to guess at what it means, it is useless. The Bible is so vague as to be useless. Can I take a stab at what it means? Sure. I also think that homosexuality is what Paul was discussing. But is "think" or "pretty sure" good enough when you are going to condemn somebody to eternal damnation? I would hope for something better than "pretty sure". |
Posted By: Hitman
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 7:20pm
That is the same thing I bring up when confronted with this arguement. Whenever I debate this with my friend who follows Christianity, he says that they choose to be that way, contrary to scientific study. While he has faith in the bible, he lacks all faith in trained scientists. ------------- |
Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 7:27pm
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I don't see what the problem is.
It seems simple enough to me... If you agree with the club's policies, you can join... If not, then don't join; I'm sure there are other Christian clubs on campus. I'm sick of people feeling they are entitled to be allowed everywhere. Sometimes you're just required to STAY OUT. I can't go in a girls' restroom, but they have nicer mirrors! OH NOEZ! DISCRIMINATION! ------------- 
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Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 8:03pm
Im gonna disagee with you there....mostly because I know very little about religion...and found something non-useless to post :) Evolution IS, simply because it SHOULD be that way. Did certain species of birds gain longer beaks to reasch farther into trees and holes to get food, or trees in Africa begin making spikes to prevent getting eaten by the many herbivores there because thats the way luck, or some supreme being said it IS going to be like that? Or did those evolutions occur because if they had a desire to survive, they SHOULD adapt like they did? On an on topic note, I must say that Dazed seemed to have pwned the hardcore christians with that post. I foud it to be quite amusing. ------------- 
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Posted By: ForceRedeemer
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:32pm
That’s Catholics not christians! |
Posted By: ForceRedeemer
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:39pm
Hey Bill Clinton what is the meaning of is? Wait everyone....... I got it now Clark Kent made me see the light. If you lie in the same area as another man you will burn in hell!!!!!! 
You may not be a follower of Christ but don't play stupid you know what it means. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 23 April 2005 at 9:14am
This is only true if you assume that evolution is guided, which is a circular argument... |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 23 April 2005 at 9:16am
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In am not playing stupid, and I don't know what it means. I tend to agree that it probably doesn't mean simply sharing a bed, but I am entirely unclear as to whether it includes kissing, oral sex, loving gazes... Where is the line? The Bible is too vague, and doens't provide a line. Therefore, it is a meaningless rule. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 23 April 2005 at 9:22am
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It means no relation ships beyond that of a normal productive relationship between two men. Lie together, means have sex, indulge in inpure acts. Of course its vaugue when you pick through it with a fine toothed comb with the objective of disproving it. These passages are prohibiting homosexuality, not the acts. You are getting hung up on the acts, thats not what is important. Its the lifestyle that is being prohibited. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 23 April 2005 at 9:36am
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Exactilly what do you think Catholics are?Posted By: Dazed
Date Posted: 23 April 2005 at 9:47am
And comments like this are why I fear the average "christian". |