Dont ask Dont tell..
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Topic: Dont ask Dont tell..
Posted By: DBibeau855
Subject: Dont ask Dont tell..
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:33pm
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Im sittin here watching "Real Time With Bill Maher" And right now hes got some musician from the Dixy Chicks, some other guy and General Wesley Clark, who is an idiot. I like watching this show because a lot of times you get a slant on both sides. Both sides get a bit of a chance to talk about several issues from different points of view. They just finished talking about Homosexuals in the military. The Dont ask Dont tell policy, i was thinking, perhaps its for their own protection? Right now there are about 25,000 homosexuals serving in the military right now, i was thinking perhaps its for their own protection, if everyone knew they were homosexual, perhaps they would get a lot of flack about it, being the first to go into every cave, basicaly discriminated against, it might affect group integrety and solidarity.. What are you thoghts? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:35pm
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Yeah, why else would they have that policy? cooties through knowledge? Yeah, it's to keep treatment fair as far as I know, makes sense to me
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Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:36pm
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Let's have a "Don't ask, don't tell" for gender at the air force academy.
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:39pm
I think if it was allowed to be common knowledge, in about 10 years we would have stories on the life time channel about homosexuals being mistreated in the military, people constantly sending them into a dangerous situation first. People would also discriminate without knowing it as well. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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choopie911 wrote:Posted By: For Honor
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:41pm
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its sounds rather rash but it does make sense ------------- 
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:43pm
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Of course, im not saying its right, but i think it is working to prevent undue discrimination and helps maintain group solidarity. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Trogdor2
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:43pm
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I like watching totaly biased right wing TV shows. It's the only way that I can put up a good argument for my side of it. ------------- Something unknown is doing we don't know what. That is what our knowledge amounts to. - Sir Arthur Eddington |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:45pm
With this, you get both sides, but i think bill maher is so hopelessly left that its almost pointless to go on this show as a republican. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: surgar baby
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:45pm
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Private life is irrelevent when serving in the military anyway.
Now, if only they could extent that "Don't ask, don't tell" policy to
the boy scouts...
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:47pm
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Well, in the military, private life is relavant, when you get upgraded to a sensative position, more often than not, they will ask your neibors and web your phone calls. But in the bedroom, its very irrelevant and has no bearing on your ability to pull a trigger. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:50pm
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So these homosexual soldiers have sworn their oath to protect their country, will kill an enemy to protect their comrades and put their lives on the line. Tell me again who they need to be protected from? |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 6:52pm
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Other soldiers who dont know how to handel homosexuals. Discrimination from within the ranks. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 7:43pm
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The military could open an all-homosexual division as was done with blacks in previous wars. Within the group there'd be no discrimination even though from outside there might be. ------------- 
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 7:45pm
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If that betalion was wipped out or suffered high casualty rates, or scandals came out. It would set everything backwards. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 7:46pm
... Like, whatcha smokin'? Civil suits up the wazoo. Discrimination by the USA gov't? oh my. ------------- 
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Posted By: P!NK panther
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 7:47pm
------------- http://www.theimagehosting.com"> 
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 7:47pm
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What about homosexuals that wouldnt want to serve that way, that would just be asking for a big huge lawsuit for democrats to feed off of. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 7:52pm
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Bill Maher is an idiot. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, as long as the they are good soldiers why should we care what turns them on? A g.ay guy can pull a trigger just as well as a breeder. -------------  |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 7:54pm
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Agreed, i have an intense dislike for him. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:40am
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Maybe they should punished the homophobe soldiers that havent learned how to treat others with respect. If the goverment cant set the example within its ranks, they arent setting a good expample for the rest of society.
I think the policy should be, Do Ask and Do Tell. Why should someone have to hide who they are because other people never learned to have respect for differences in mankind back in kindergarden? ------------- 
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:47am
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Perfect argument. I can't even get a word in anymore Hades. *Shakes fist violently* On a side note, although I didn't enjoy last weeks Real Time, I do enjoy Bill Mahr and usually love the show. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:50am
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Bill Maher can be very annoying, but his HBO show is SOOO much better than the old one (ABC?). Honestly - do I care what some random actor thinks about politics? |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:54am
I sure dont.. Hes an actor, they should stay out of politics, things like when that backstreet boy talked to congress about not drilling in alaska.. I coulda shot him. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:54am
| Nope, as you shouldn't. People need to make opinions for themselves. I love it for the humor (most of the time it's funny). I don't agree with him about quite a few things, but at least it's uncencsored on HBO so you can get the real juicy stuff. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:55am
Why ask and do tell, the subject doesnt matter, sexual orientation has no bearing in military life. It doesnt matter if a person is homosexual, they can still run and gun. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:56am
Some things he comes up with make me chuckle, like when he said the catholic religion is homosexual, and gives his reasons, i being a catholic thoght it was very very funny. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:57am
| It's not about asking, there shouldn't be that question. However, there also shouldn't be a rule that soldiers can't tell either. It should be up to them if they would like to share their sexual orientation. It should be a "don't ask but it's okay if the soldiers want to tell" rule. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 9:58am
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Haha, yeah some things he says are pretty clever. He's a pretty intelligent guy, so I like him. I give credit to anyone that takes the time to learn about issues, so if they are an actor but know their stuff, then it's okay with me. However, like all humans, he does fall into biased and subjective ideals. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:05am
In all fairness thats the way it should be, but i can deffinatly see how if they were to say something, rumors would spread about how Private So and So is a homosexual and whatnot. Seems like it could become a huge headache. And i dont know if the armed forces are ready for this, a lot of the top brass is very set in its ways. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:06am
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I agree with the Don't ask Don't tell policy.
Think about it, if a homophobe is int he same unit as (a) ghey, then there would be trouble Not going ot say what else i'm thinking couse I'll get flamed ------------- 
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:07am
I like how he can pick on democrats and repiblicans, on one show he said "Democrats are spineless and cant support any one thing, while republicans are drunk with power and on a rampage" Most people will only put down the oppossing side, its good to be able to pick on yourself from time to time. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:07am
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I definitely see your point. However I do not think it should be the concern of the military whether the soldiers right next to them are homosexual or not. A real soldier sees all of his fellow soldiers as family and fights hard with them, regardless of their orientation. It's simply not fair to have those who fear other soldiers to hide in the masses and not feel free. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:09am
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It's just too ridiculous to make a policy that gives freedom to the homophobes and not to the homosexuals. That's like saying we can't have blacks in the army mixed with whites because some of the whites hate black people and might harm them. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:10am
And if a black is in the same unit as a biggot there will be trouble. I dont think its right for anyone to ask, but if a soldier feels the need to tell about his alternate lifestyle, he should be able to, but i dont think it would be very smart to do. What i mean to say is i dont see a situation where it would be essential to know that PFC Higgins is a homosexual. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:14am
Apples and Oranges dune Look at Ali, fighting was against his religion so he didn't have to -------------
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:14am
I agree, they are family, sexual orientation shouldnt matter, i think its a policy that today, is very dated and not necessary. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:16am
| Not apples to oranges. You have group A who hates group B, yet group B is the one that has to hide. It doesn't matter how many people dislike them, even if it is for religious reasons. You have christian and jewish homosexuals and christian and jewish homophobes. It's is too unfair to force one group into hiding while letting another group openly hate. |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:16am
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Maybe the homophobe should carefully examine his reason for his discomfort. Perhaps his indiscretion during adolescence is causing the problem? |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:18am
I thought that was funny. Anyway, no its not apples and oranges, there are deprooted prejudices in the military today. Black against whites, whities against blacks, any combination you can imagine, discrimination can be a problem in the ranks, its not only against homosexuals. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:34am
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Adam and Eve not Adam and steve. ------------- 
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:47am
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Soddom and Gamorah, the story is about 2 cities full of sexual devients were killed. Well, this would point to a notion that god hates homosexuals, but look closely and you could also extrapalate if one so chose, that because in the end of the story, the father of the family that housed the two angels ends up being deceived by his dauther and commited insest after loosing his wife and sleeping with his two virgin daughters. One could also asume that god hates straights. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:49am
| Religion doesn't matter for this issue. It is about the military of the United States. A place that is supposed to be for people to express freedoms and feel free. There should be no question asked, no debate about religion, and no hate shown towards homosexual soldiers. They should be allowed to serve either openly or not, whatever they feel. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 10:53am
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Eh he brought it up. But i beleive that first and foremost they are soldiers, sexual orientation doesnt matter at all. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 11:01am
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But tell me, how would you feel if you were taking a shower and a guy kept staring at you thinking you were "hot"
or if you had to share them same pup-tent? -------------
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 11:03am
| I wouldn't think anything about it. If a girl looks at me and thinks I'm hot, then it's okay if a guy looks at me the same way. It doesn't mean I'm going to sleep with him. I am secure of myself. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 11:05am
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You are an adult, act like one, tell them it makes you uncomfortable. There is a guy in my Soc. class thinks im cute or whatever, i dont let it bother me. And sharing the same tent, i should be so lucky, my cousin matt is homosexual he is such a little neat freak, everything has to be just so, his place is SPOTLESS! You should see his droors, its like stacked books but clothing.. You could balance a quarter in his t shirt droor.
If a guy thinks you are atractive, how does this affect you? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 11:17am
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True, it shouldn't matter, but to manyof the country, it does -------------
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Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:02pm
My thoughts are:
He is a Rhodes scholar, shut down the Serbs flawlessly, and was a great commander to serve under as a soldier of the 1ID.
You criticizing GEN Clark is tantamount to the three stooges criticizing NASA's operation of the Mars exploration program. ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:09pm
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Or that God likes the guy who was going to give his two virgin daughters to the sexual deviants. Lott was a coward who ended up making out ok. He'd probably be a high ranking politician in todays times. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:09pm
My family knows the man, ever eat dinner with him? No? Guess not, hes an idiot. Kthxbye ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:13pm
Have you ever served under him as a soldier? No? Is he a professional dinner eater or a professional soldier? I don't care how much of an idiot he is at eating his vegetables. Here's your idea of a war hero:
 ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:14pm
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If a cute homosexual man was attracted to me, I would treat him as I would a treat a cute heterosexual woman. If he ogled my ham hocks in the shower, good for him. I have work hard to get them in shape. I would probably even flirt with him. Would I ever sleep in the same pup tent as him? Sure. Would I share a sleeping bag with him, sure. Would I let him touch me in a way that was inappropate behavior? No. Would he respect that boundry? I am sure he would.
If a non cute homosexual man were to be attracted to me, I would treat him just like I treat a non cute heterosexual women. That simple. Jeeze people, homosexual people are humans too. Why are you afraid they are all after you? If you cant even get a straight female to be attracted to you, what makes you think a homosexual male will be? -------------
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:16pm
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Didn't we go over this already? Our army boys already ARE sharing pup tents and showers with the homoboys. Somehow the world hasn't exploded yet. |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:16pm
I had breakfast once with John Boy Walton. Ever have breakfast with him? No? Guess not, he was smart. Kthxbye |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:20pm
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Please post your ham hocks and let us judge if they deserve oglement or not. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:23pm
You kinda talk politics at those dinners bub... But you wouldnt know that. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:24pm
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Compare your hero in his flight suit from his play time 'ol dress-up box:
 To my hero:
 ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:27pm
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No one said my hero is George Bush, im partial to Colin Powel i like him a lot. Wes Clark is an idiot no two ways around it. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:28pm
Tell me when, exactly what dates you discussed military operations with General Wesley Clark, the man who brought down Serbia. I want to hear exactly what Clark told you.
tick.tock.tick.tock. ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:32pm
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HEY!!! |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:32pm
Woah woah woah i knew i said Wes in there. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:33pm
HAHAHA!!!!! OmniSmitty laughs at you! |
Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:37pm
Your claims of eating dinner with GEN Clark remain unproven.
 The general laughs at you... ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:37pm
Haha. I'll throw on the wetsuit this weekend and post a pic.  -------------
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Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:40pm
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OmniSmitty will be grateful. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:40pm
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:41pm
Why do i care if you believe me or not? I havent thoght about it in ages. I also met John Walsh breifly. His hair is very very gray. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:46pm
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[QUOTE=DBibeau855]
Why do i care if you believe me or not? I havent thoght about it in ages. /QUOTE]
So then, you concede that you don't have any real proof of ever even meeting with the General, much less eating dinner with him. Tell the truth, your soul is laid bare before the eye of OmniSmitty....
 That's so good, I'm gonna make it my sig.
------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 1:53pm
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No i dont have any proof, i agreed with some of the things he said, but other things not. I mostly disagreed about his views on soldiers special pay benifits. Thats what my mother does in the pentagon so i hear about it all the time, so i know a lot about it. The things he wants to do, we just dont have the money for, and Donald Rumsfeld, he is more of an idiot, never met him, hes just dumb. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 2:07pm
There, that was all I needed to make me happy. We can agree to disagree and I can go to sleep happy. I think he's a military genius for what he did in Kosovo. I was the 12th Chemical Co. (1ID) XO at the time we were pounding the Serbs in the air war. I saw the man's genius very close up. ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 2:09pm
Oh i wasnt speaking about his military skills, you dont normaly become a general if you can comand a force of soldiers well. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 2:48pm
So do I, and I agree with him about **edited**s in the military. I see the sense in not allowing openly **edited** people to serve in the military. Homosexuality is a bahavioral characteristic, so comparing it to discriminating against blacks or other races and ethnic groups is just wrong. Since the military feels it is appropriate to have seperate facilities for males and females, what are you going to do if you allow openly **edited** people to serve? Have seperate facilities for straight men and **edited** men, and straight women and **edited** women? I'll say it's ok to allow openly **edited** people to serve when they completely intergrate male and female facilities. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 5:09pm
| It's close minded people that are trying to keep these people from feeling free. |
Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 6:48pm
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As well to clark kent.
As a soldier, we CAN pick out the closet homo's very easily....just because of mannerisms and the like....it's not like we're completely oblivious to the fact. to us, the OPENLY homosexual soldier is the one who wants the pride flag over his locker in the barracks or uses uncomfortable homo humour and then backtalks us when we squirm away....kinda like what some women get away with in the military...it's going overboard. but as i said, we can already spot the closet people or,through getting to know your fellow soldiers, find out which ones like men. we just want forces day to have a homo kioske and have parades for the time they collectively "came out" in the military. ------------- A second class drive is always better than a first class walk. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 22 April 2005 at 6:59pm
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! I laugh at the collective **edited**dar of the military.
And why is that a problem? Can you display political party insignia? NAACP signs?
Uncomfortable for YOU, you mean...
I am hearing some backtalk right now... and it ain't coming from the homos... Like I said before - the only problem here is YOUR discomfort. That means that YOU need to get over it. People in most other professions have managed to just get over it. Why can't you?
Allow me to repeat myself: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
And why not? The only harm is that it makes YOU uncomfortable. Your post is staggeringly selfish. |