Destruction of America
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=133795
Printed Date: 05 May 2024 at 1:40pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Destruction of America
Posted By: SeaWolf
Subject: Destruction of America
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:19am
|
Emailed to me this morning:
We all know **edited** Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration-overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal - was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream. Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'" "Here is how they do it," Lamm said: First to destroy America, "Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. "The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans." Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds. Third, "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'" Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America reinforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities." "Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school." "My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population." "My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" -- From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we can balkanize America as surely as Kosovo." "Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits ~ make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate." "Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them." In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book." There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Every discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength." Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream. WAKE UP AMERICA. WE ARE NOW A VICTIM OF OUR OWN DEMISE! ------------- 
|
Replies:
Posted By: Liquid3
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:29am
| Great! The bigots get another bible. The KKK will be all over that one. We are starting to sound a little too Third Reich for my taste. |
Posted By: SeaWolf
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:30am
We are starting to sound a little too liberal for my taste. -------------
|
Liquid3 wrote:Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:33am
We are called the RIGHT wing for a reason  ------------- 
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:40am
| It's not about being liberal or conservative, regardless of how the blind see humanity. The pressure to stop immigration, either illegal or legal, is ridiculous, a scare tactic that makes people point fingers at the outsider's influence causing problems in America, rather than it's the people that were already living here. |
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:45am
|
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it's failures, as the old proverb says.
We are Rome, Greece, take your pick of any collapsed "power". We rose, became great, then spoiled, then corrupt, then amoral, and now we are ripe for the picking if the proper impetus came along. We don't need an opposing "superpower", we are doing the job just fine all by ourselves. ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:47am
| Not every superpower has collapsed because of becomming immoral as you put it. That is the least of a superpower's worries compared to economy, expansion, and outside influences. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:49am
But if you look at old Rome, they colla[sed after they allowed public/outright homosexuality (no offense Prod and Clark) -------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:51am
| Allowing homosexuality is not the reason Rome collapsed, true in fact because Rome is not the only society that has widespread homosexuality. Rome is attributed to many other changing times and factors. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:52am
| Dumb. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:53am
-------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:55am
| They didn't ALLOW it. It's not like a law was passed. It was always there, and had always been a custom through it's rise and fall and even after. It's in all major societies and cultures and even in the animal kingdom. It cannot be used as a contributing factor. |
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:56am
|
I didn't say every superpower fell the
same way, some were eclipsed by a greater nation, but hopefully you get
the point of what I was saying and can see some similarities.
Immigration is a HUGE problem, and Bush is dropping the ball AND kicking it across the floor with this "amnesty" nonsense, especially in the post-9/11 world. The 9/11 hijackers had over 50 valid drivers licenses between them, and now he wants to make it easier? Oh, yes, they cancer is in the body politic of the United States, but do we have the guts or wherewithal to deal with it? I have my doubts ... EDIT: Homosexuality the problem? That is not a fair statement. I have know many "**edited**" people over the years, and for they most part they had a more accurate "moral compass" than many so-called bible beaters I have had the misfortune of knowing. If you don't think illegal immigration is a pressing problem, you better wake up, the house is already on fire. ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:57am
| Immigration is only a problem because America makes it too difficult to become a citizen, thus creating illegals. I say bring 'em along. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:58am
|
1. Rome had homosexuality. 2. Rome fell. Therefore, Rome fell because of homosexuality. Obvious - Duh. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 10:59am
| Ahh, thanks for clearing that up for me Clark. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:01am
And dune, i've never seen a **homosexual** anaimal. -------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:02am
|
10% of every animal species is stated by scientists to be homosexual. Why do the immigrants of 2000 deserve to be shot, but your ancestors were "escaping to freedom to a free land?" |
Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:03am
Perfect, because all we need in this world is more violence. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:05am
Violence isn't bad all the time. It gets your point accross when the other side refuses to have intellectual talks. -------------
|
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:06am
|
Violence is NOT an answer, as that will merely lead to anarchy and civil unrest.
Illegal aliens are a slap in the face to people who bust their tails trying to come here and be part of this country. I know this because in my job, I have dealt with several people who gave up everything they owned and spent years trying to come here, and they see the illegals as an insult to their sacrifices. I tend to agree with them. It MUST be stopped, and it should be done YESTERDAY, if not sooner. ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:06am
 -------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:09am
|
I agree illegal immigration must be stopped, but it must be replaced with an easier form of legal immigration. The more the merrier, it's not only my country, I can share the freedoms with others. |
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:13am
|
I agree that freedom should be available to all, so the process could definitely be streamlined.
HOWEVER ... we need to have an idea as to exactly WHO we are letting in ... we need to slam the currently open door in Al Qeadas' nasty faces ... ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:14am
| There is a huge difference though. Al Qeada has no real intention on becomming citizens of the country, so fighting them at the boarders is different then fighting illegal immigration, where people come to make a better life for themselves. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:16am
I love how the world hates us, yet they will try and sneak, kill, buy their way into our country to live -------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:17am
|
They try to sneak into the country to destroy us, not to live for the rest of their lives.
|
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:21am
|
No they don't REALLY want to be part of America, but how is the best way to hide?
Right in PLAIN SIGHT, and as supposedly America loving, productive immigrant come her for a better life. Don't you guys remember the accounts of people that knew the 9/11 hijackers prior to the attacks? Regular, normal guys who FIT RIGHT IN with the community. Come on, guys, don't be naive ... ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:22am
| Those aren't are real targets with immigration legislation. Our country targets mexicans just wanting a better life, not terrorists. We need better legislation to help those people out. |
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:24am
|
Do you think that all of the people streaming across our southern border are merely poor Mexicans?
Time to wake up and smell the cordite. It's not a risk I am willing to live with. ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:25am
| You're pointing fingers and calling them terrorists because you've been scared into thinking it. I however have a little more respect for people trying to create something out of nothing, I call them potentials, and every one of them deserves a chance. Weeding out terrorists is just a subsytem of a greater immigration policy. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:27am
-------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:28am
| Our government too, majority conservative. |
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:29am
|
As for the REAL Mexicans ... who do you think picks up the tab when a
pregnant illegal staggers across the border and drops a kid, who then
is a citizen, so Mommy gets to stay. Yup, WE the TAXPAYING public do.
The come here, work illegally, take the American dollars they ear BACK to Mexico, and this is done with the encouragement of the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT. They as non-taxpaying workers are destablizing the economy, and then we pick up the bill for welfare, food stamps and other entitlements? Sorry, afraid not ... become a LEGAL citizen, or benefit 1 should NEVER be paid. If you are not on a green card or a work Visa, no citizenship for the babies. Otherwise, why should they take the proprer steps to come here? They get all the benfits with none of the responsibilities. That plain old SUCKS IMHO. ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:31am
| It's not easy to come here and become legal, it's not easy to survive on pennies and hour. When you really understand the life of an immigrant, illegal alien, whatever you want to call them, then you will be able to post with dignity, maturity, and intellect. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:32am
^^^ And trust HWay when he talk about jobs. He had trouble last year  ATleast he has one now...
I'm fine with immigrants, as long as they go trhough the proper channels. You don't go right to the supreme court over a lawsuit for $200.... If they try and sneak in, they don't deserve to be here, we have regulations for a reason, and thats to keep people that aren't good enough to be he out. That may sound harsh, but it's needed. -------------
|
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:33am
That is dogmatic nonsense. I have NOTHING BUT RESPECT for someone who comes here the RIGHT WAY and tries to make a better life.
Ask yourself ... if YOU were a terrorist, how would YOU get in? Would you take a chance at getting tagged in the immigration process, or would you blend in with the illegals coming across out blatantly wide-open border, and come on in. It's the path of least resistance, and you should know it too if you look at the FACTS. Emotion had NOTHING to do with this. We are VULNERABLE, and unless we gather the testicular fortitude to do what is required to solve the problem, our economy will continue to suffer and we are throwing the door wide open for another 9/11/ I say kill two birds with one stone and lock those borders down NOW! ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:36am
You are obviously NOT READING MY POSTS ... I work with people on a NEAR DAILY BASIS WHO ARE IMMIGRANTS!
African, European, Russian ... THEY hate the illegal situation as much as I do. It's an insult to what THEY have sacrificed when illegals creep in like roaches in a dark kitchen. You are getting emotional, and it's affecting your reasoning skills. ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:37am
| You cannot lock the boardes without making the process of becoming legal cheap and easy, with all screening processes available as well. So just locking them is ridiculous. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:39am
|
No Dune, we DO need to lock the borders
BUT if we make it easier to become a citizen, we will be like evryother country, letting int he worlds trash. I'm happy we have high standards for citezendy. -------------
|
Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:39am
|
Locking the borders would only cause more trouble.
-------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:40am
| Locking the boarders is arrogant and stupid. It's a way for people to say that we are stopping a problem that doesn't truly exist. You guys like to point fingers at outsiders, when it's the laziness, and greediness of our own citizens that causes many of these problems. I say we should allow anyone in that passess screening, make them citizens, and for anyone illegal, it should be mandatory to pay them the same wages as employers would pay legals. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:40am
I live IN Mich, and our Candaian border at the bridge takes forever, but hey, thats better than letting bad people and drugs in -------------
|
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:42am
|
Listen, I am not debating this with
you anymore, Dune. You are ignoring the points being made and
picking pieces to attack.
I have said that YES, the immigration process is flawed and needs fixed, but you refuse to acknowledge it. You are looking at this with emotion and not logic, and therefore do not seem amenable to having a prpber debate about this subject. Why don't you take a break, calm down, re-read the posts that have been presented, and try again. You are beating the same points into the ground and not addressing the counterpoints, so what is the point of continuing this? Your mind is made up, and reason is lost at this point. ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:42am
|
We don't have high standards for citizenship, Bugg. There is no particular requirement for citizenship. What we have is a bureaucratic morass and a painfully slow process. That is completely different from having high standards. EDIT - boy I type slowly. |
Posted By: bluemunky42
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:43am
yeah it does. ------------- 
http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity - http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:43am
|
Clark's right. Sorry hwayzhrd, I do see your points. I'm trying to fight the "lock the boarders" idea. I do believe there is a way to screen potentially bad people, but locking the boarders is not a solution. |
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:44am
Yup, I tend to agree ... not only is
the current process slow, tedious and difficult, it also is poorly
designed and carried out. The entire thing needs to be reworked.
------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:46am
I do NOT want the borders LOCKED ...
just better CONTROLLED. People that want to be a part of this
country are more than welcome, but let them do it LEGALLY.
When I say lock down the borders, I mean stop the hemmoraging of illegal aliens into the country, NOT stop the immigration process. ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 11:49am
-------------
|
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 1:15pm
|
Glad I missed this one, seems redundant and nasty. If America is destroyed, I have enough cases of ammo to get whatever I need. ------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 1:21pm
|
I recently heard an interview with a european family that was trying to get green cards. The snag was that their children need immunizations to get into our schools. The family's religion didn't allow for immunizations. Americans use the same excuse to get exemption status all the time with this same issue. Seperation of church and state. They where told that if they pushed this getting the green card, their application will be put into the denied stack. What do you all think of this? Stay home or go against your beliefs? ------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 1:23pm
|
No offense to you home school kids. ------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: SeaWolf
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 2:18pm
Let's hear it for the "edit button"! -------------
|
Posted By: sn0wie
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 2:24pm
|
Yeah, I"m with him on this one. LIttle bit to liberal. ------------- Felicibus brevis misera hora longa. dico ego procul vado procul per nusquam velum. Devoco Ignis. Adustum orbis terrarum. |
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 2:36pm
|
Your right, I forgot this is paintball - supposed to be a bunch of wealthy white kids. Where's the representation... must be their logic doesn't pull through. ------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 3:00pm
|
Your president, in order to win the election: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-05-10-ridge-alerts_x.htm?csp=34 - http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-05-10-ridge-ale rts_x.htm?csp=34 badsmitty had a whole thread on it. I'm a big proponent of the current administration's five step plan to destroy our country: 1. Encourage companies to send our jobs overseas. 2. Inflame and insult the world's largest religion, known for radicalism. 3. Torque-off nuclear powers by calling them the "axis of evil." 4. Turn a $trillions budget surplus in the largest deficit ever. 5. Take away the rights of anyone who doesn't walk lock-step with the program and throw them in prison. What would have happened if the indians had closed the borders 500 years ago? We'd all be back in our respective European countries. ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 3:03pm
|
Okay, I agree with Dune, Clark, and Hway. I do not agree with Bugg, and
I do not think that I agree with SeaWolf, but I'm not sure. What do you propose then, SeaWolf? Are you in favor of locking the borders outright? Do you oppose the idea of pluralism? Do you agree with the e-mail's speaker that there are intrinsic differences between races that cause, for example, Hispanics to suffer from higher drop-out rates? I would try and figure out your answers from your posts, but so far all you've done is say, "We're too liberal," and "Use the edit button." Oh, and you pasted some chain mail, too. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 3:44pm
I have to say, I am disappointed ... I expected better from you.
The discussion isn't going the way you want, so now you want to allude to snobbery and racism? Really ... that's not the way to change hearts and minds. Oh, well, it was bound to happen sooner or later in this thread. I never lived in a ghetto, I'm white, and I never entered a country illegally, so I could not POSSIBLY understand ... what was I thinking?? ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 3:50pm
|
I dont have time to comment now but if you dont live in California how does this really even affect you? I dont see harm in illegals entering California. They are great for our economy.
I will get back to this later. Back to work for me. Edit: I havent had the time to read the whole first post of the thread, Yet. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 3:56pm
|
I thought my post was obviously sarcastic and in reference to the "too liberal for my taste" post directly above it. Sorry if I dissapointed anyone. ------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: holysmartone
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 3:59pm
|
Why should they come to our country to live, and expect us to learn their language? I know if I moved to Mexico (and I'm only using Mexicans as an example because I live in Michigan, and Spanish/Mexican has become the dominant language here it seems) I would learn their own language. I wouldnt expect them to learn english. Thus, I expect them to learn english if they come here. |
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 4:03pm
|
I am sure if a lot of them had an oppertunity to learn english they would. I have had some Cubans in Miami pretend to not speak English to me but that is rare now. ------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 4:08pm
|
Hades is right... What "American" wants to work on a farm for $5.00 an hour? our Nation Was Built of Immigration... can you even have a slight immagination on what would of happend if we didn't import slaves, and then when slavery was abbolished(sp) we depended on Cheap labor from immagrents from China, Ireland, etc... This nation wouldn't even be a nation if it wasn't for immagrants hell Americans themselves are immigrants.... I belive in tight boarder control, but there is a fine line between Open and closed boarders... I think America should change its name though... "L.o.H" Land of the Hypocrits, and the new slogan... "We never practice what we preech". ------------- 
|
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 4:08pm
|
Hrmmm. I work at McDonalds, with a bunch of Mexican, Puerto Rican, and Guatamalan (sp) people. A few of them dont speak English. What did I do? Did I complain and throw a fit and get all patriotic and command they learn 'Merican to talk to me? Nope. I learned enough Spanish to communicate with them, and am actually getting them to teach me Spanish. We are a country of diversity that from its beginnings has spoken many languages. Just becuase you all are too lazy to learn another language dosent mean they should be forced to. Speaking of this, between their jobs, when do you propose they learn English? Do you support funding for public English classes for working aldults? How do you want them to learn English? Most of them learn "working English" in due time anyway. Oh, and about being lazy...Yeah, I dont want to hear any talk about anybody "Stealing Jobs". 1) They are not stealing jobs, people are giving them jobs 2)Why dont you try working as well as they do for the pay that they get and the hours they spend at their jobs and see if you want to or not. Living in Florida has forced me to become intolerant of ignorance twords immigration neo-cons. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 4:11pm
Everything you said was what we need to do... Not **edited**, and just go with the flow... -------------
|
Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 4:25pm
|
I'm with Hway. Illegal aliens are one of the worst things going for
this country. Right along with big business shafting the working man
every which way. However, diversity is not a bad thing. If done
properly it can lead to a rich and wonderful culture. Look at us so
far, this is because of immigration and diversity. I'm all for social
cohesion but I think alot of people don't just want to stop the salad
bowl but they want to put a lid on the melting pot and that just
wouldn't be smart. That article used all of those other countries as
examples but, if you think about it, their problems weren't diversity
in their cultures it was the lack of tolerance in them, on both sides.
Immigrants need to learn to be American just as we need to learn to let
them. But, that said, I wholeheartedly agree with the article about our
culture of victimism. Everyone wants to blame someone else for thier
problems and THAT is what is destroying this country, family by family.
Let's face it, any way you want to look at it this country is going to hell. Our only hope is that somehow we can get someone in office that isn't worth hundreds of millions of dollars and isn't stuck on outside allegences but is in there to help us, the people. I think we should make anyone making over 80k inelligible for office. Get normal people with common sense in there and get stuff fixed. -------------  |
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 4:35pm
 where'd that text come from by my avatar? Ehhhm yes minor indeed, for thoughts and opinions.------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 4:38pm
i dont get your title...  
-------------
|
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 5:14pm
|
Rome became great because of its middle class. Middle class landowners were citizen soldiers who had a stake in protecting the empire. Rome collapsed when the wealthy took the land from the citizen soldiers and turned them into peasants. Save the immorality lecture for the fundie wacko's who don't read history books. Also, the Greek army got whipped in Iraq. (Retreat of the 10,000) No democratic nation that ever pre-emptively attacked a soveriegn nation has ever won. History...sheesh |
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 5:23pm
|
I think Rome collapsed because they didn't have the communication technology to manage their whole massive territory. Also, they started to use lead piping and that makes you crazy. Why reference ancient history? I guess why not. ------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 5:31pm
lets bring back the Soviet Empire! 
-------------
|
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 8:47pm
|
So what if some people dont want to wait 15+ years to get their application approved to enter the United States hoping for a better chance at life. As long as they are good people, which most all of them are. Who cares.
I would like to know these jobs that the illegal aliens are taking. If they dont have green cards or American highshcool diplomas their job oppertunies fall to what people are willing to hire them for; mostly under the table work of hard/back breaking labor or really cheap labor. If your complaining because you feel that your less then minimuim wage job is at stake because of an illegal alien, go earn your high school diploma. Another thing that caught my eye, if you go to any other country you will find people that have learned English. They speak thier native tonuge and english. Some think that they are so superior are they are the best and that is the way everything should be. Well I disagree. /me goes and starts at the being of the thread to read it. -------------
|
Posted By: rancidpnk13
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 9:13pm
I think America has enough "trash" in it already. Illegal immigrants are welcome in my book. Better if we just let them all become legal. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 9:36pm
|
I finally skimmed through the first post and I have to say is I am grateful for not being on whatever mailing list you have gotten yourself onto. That was the nearly the dumbest thing I have ever seen posted here.
I started typing a very long and winded reply but I gave up. At least the people that heard this speech didnt applaud. Despite what ever the emailer wrote, it was not because the audience was shocked by the info in the speech and how correct the speaker was, but because they too thought it was the dumbest thing they ever heard and couldnt believe their ears. -------------
|
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 7:44pm
|
In a different thread I said that "if I got guested for something minor, I would be done with this forum" ------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 7:49pm
|
It's ok guys, I think other countries will be the ones worrying about illegal immigration before too long.
------------- |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 8:45pm
We did. Iraq.. History..sheesh. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
|
Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 8:52pm
|
lol, we did? When Iraq is a self supporting, secure, becon of democracy
in the middle of the holy land THEN we have won. Right now we're not
there.
------------- |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 8:56pm
|
No. We dont have to stabalize anything to win a war. Look at germany. Look at all the other wars the US has one. When have we ever cared? We beat the hell out of the germany and left it in poverty. We dont have to go through a reconstruction to win a war. We won in Iraq, now we are setting up a government that hopefully, will look out for our interests as well as theirs. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Betterdays
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 9:31pm
|
Um...No. At the end of the 2nd World War the United States embarked on a massive campaign of grants and loans to help rebuild Europe and specifically not leave the defeated Axis powers in poverty. It's often referred to as the Marshall plan.
|
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 9:33pm
|
Thats really not the point. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Nickodemus
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 9:39pm
What about the soviet contribution to the fall of Germany. ------------- Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken! |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 9:43pm
Well duh, thats how World War II started in the first place. We kept the Germans so incredibley poor after the first war and brought them down so low they could only go up that they rebelled. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Betterdays
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 9:44pm
|
Unfortunately, it's exactly the point. The Treaty of Versailles which ended the 1st World War was very harsh on Germany, particularly in the form of war reparations. Those reparations left Germany in poverty and that was a serious contributing factor to the rise of National Socialism and by extension the 2nd World War. Certain parallels can be drawn to the current situation in Iraq. Poverty is the root cause of terrorism in much the same way it was the root of National Socialism. If we are going to be truly successful in Iraq then we have to create a fully functioning nation state complete with a legitimate economy. If we don't the region will devolve into something akin to Afghanistan and our military might will have succeeded in nothing but creating a breeding ground for fundamentalist Islam and terrorists. Edit: Kudos to Darur for beating me to the WWI connection
|
.Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 11:14pm
|
Just for a random throwing out of opinion, I have always found the
Marshall Plan to be one of the best political power-plays of all time.
------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 8:00am
| The best way to stop the illegal invasion of our country is to place a mine field at the boarder. |
Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 8:14am
We are a country of diversity that from its beginnings has spoken many languages. Just becuase you all are too lazy to learn another language dosent mean they should be forced to.
You seem like an intelligent person, so how did you come up with this?? Are you even familuar with the history of immigration in America. Do you know that the procedure was, and the consequesces of not following them?? I assume you do not. If you did you would understand the folly of your stance. Personally I find it irration to believe that Americans should learn another language so we can accomidate the new crop of immigrants to this country. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 11:27am
-------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 11:47am
| Why shouldn't Americans learn different languages? Oh now I get it, because Americans shouldn't accommodate anyone and schools should only teach English because people of arrogance and ignorance will never leave their neighborhoods in order to broaden their horizons. Many other countries such as Japan and Germany teach English as a second language like their own. They do this because they have intelligent school officials that realize the importance of understanding others. It doesn't matter what language is spoken the most, it's about convience, and I'm happy with the amount of languages I have taken the time to learn. I feel more comfortable with myself and others and believe it should be required in schools. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 11:55am
|
Dune, at my high school, it's a requirement to take 2 years of a foreign language.
I'm fine with that, but if people move to a country, they should learn the language. If you don't bother learning it, get out. Our langauge is tough, yes, but it shouldn't take more then 3-4 months to learn the basics to participate in our society. After that initial period, if you don't know enough to function, get out -------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 12:01pm
|
It's hard to learn it when you're too busy working 60 hour weeks for only a couple of bucks a day. There is a better place to start than forcing them to learn english, such as requiring equal pay for equal work, providing benefits, and to be a little more open minded to those trying to better themselves like your ancestors. Two years of a foreign language in high school is not nearly enough, it needs to be a program started in elementary that a child is able to pick the language and follow through with it until graduating high school. |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 12:04pm
|
Dune, it was started in elementry for me.
Starting in 4th grade, spanish until 7th grade, than 2 years of French, than 2 years of German. I'm sorry, but thats a bit much. I would rather learn something applicable, like Russian. -------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 12:13pm
|
Russian is not more applicable than Spanish. Actually the two other languages that should be learned are Spanish and quite possibly Japanese (for anyone entering the business field). |
Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 12:16pm
That was one of the most stupid things I have heard in awhile. -------------
|
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 12:20pm
Friend of mine said "We should make the Rio Grande pure gasoline, and have it turn on and off at will. When someone goes to the border, keep it on for a while, than just turn it off, they will start to cross and you turn it on again" And Dune, yes spanish is applicable, and so is japanes,e but believe me, the way the world is going now, so is Russian -------------
|
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 12:27pm
| That would be up to the students though. It would be very useful to learn a second language as strong as our first. |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 12:55pm
Your idea of a "slight variation" is the difference between locking the borders or not. . . . ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Bugg
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 1:12pm
|
Well, HWAY did first write "We should lock the borders" Go back and check -------------
|
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 1:55pm
Okay, I checked. ------------- __________________ __________________ |