I am reading the bible.
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Topic: I am reading the bible.
Posted By: themovielife
Subject: I am reading the bible.
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 4:45am
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As ironic as it sounds I am.
Now as I read further and further, I am wondering why so many people are buying this. I can't make since of how any of it can be true. 004:015 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. |
Replies:
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 4:55am
Dont bother with most of the other books from the era then  The bible, in my opinion, is not to be taken literally. Its was written by MAN, that always must be remembered. You take the message from it, not the story. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Trogdor2
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:38am
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That means, the guy who killed Cain will have seven times the punishment for what he did. Therefor, he's screwed.
------------- Something unknown is doing we don't know what. That is what our knowledge amounts to. - Sir Arthur Eddington |
Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:17am
 I hate Jesus Fish. ------------- 
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Posted By: Smitty
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:28am
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Darur wrote:Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:53am
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It's a bit like Easop's Fables.
You are meant to learn a lesson from the story, and hopefully use that lesson and it's meaning to make yourself a better person. Unfortunately, most people these days have no desire at all to become a better person. Nowadays, it's the "If it feels good, do it", "Looking out for #1", "As long as it doesn't harm anyone else", "It's not my problem, so I'm not getting involved" code of conduct from the "ME Generation" that is driving us full tilt down our current societal path. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem, and the purpose of the Bible, IMHO, was to help create problem solvers, not problem makers. It's more part of the modern mythology than you might think. Look at Star Wars, for example. If you follow the way of the Force and deny the Dark Side, then good will prevail, allowing peace and prosperity to propogate. WWOWD? (What Would Obi-Wan Do?) ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:54am
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Yeah, I never got how people could believe so fervently in some old
book a bunch of old guys wrote and a bunch of corrupt
priests/politicians edited that they would base their whole life on it.
Personally I see religion as just another way to control people.
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Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:57am
Don'tcha just love people who are so vigilant in their search for enlightenment?
 ------------- If I flee, kill me If I die, avenge me |
Posted By: Predatorr
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 12:03pm
| The bible confuses me, so i just obey the ten commandments as best i can and go on my merry way. And im getting back intoo going to church even though i dont know what hes talking about. 9th grade english has taught me nothing... |
Posted By: lester98c
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 12:42pm
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i managed to get through 7 years of religion class without reading the bible. but from what they said it sounds to confusing for me |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 12:49pm
Yea, I had to go through 3 years. I HAD to read though because we had to read 2 chapters a night and there was a 3 question quiz on the reading every day. The quizes alone made up 50% of your class grade. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 1:53pm
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Here is a little known fact. The bible, has been edited to kingdom come. Literaly. Right now, there are around 40 unpublished books of the bible. Who is to say what they say. I think they are the missing years of Jesus' life. But who is to say.
PS. Im back. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
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Posted By: stalker77
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 1:57pm
| yea...theres all this stuff about these un used books of the bible...didnt they find a crap load of em in some cave in the middle east in the early 90's?? |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 2:01pm
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Yep, they are called the dead sea scrolls. Right now the Holy See is trying to get rid of one of the current books published today. Its called "The Song of Solomon" Its a love story. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: BlackDeath7
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 2:57pm
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Of course the Bible is hard to understand, it's the word of God.
That's why there are many sources out there to help people understand
its meanings. Such as bible commentaries, bible dictionaries,
bible study classes, etc. Don't just read something and after
thinking for 2 seconds say, "I don't understand it, it's stupid and
written by old people who want to control us." That is the
stupidest thing I have ever heard. How about trying to understand
something before completely bashing it.
------------- 
Brett Favre gets sacked again. |
Posted By: Homer J
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 6:22pm
| What you're referring to there is Kosher law. |
Posted By: madpaintballer
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 6:35pm
Now I'm not to enlightened on the dead sea scrolls but the reason many books are not part of the bible is because of the "cannon" This is the criteria that has to be met before a book can be considered a book of the bible. If you do a search for it on google you can find some of the criteria needed. ------------- "Killing is my business...and business is good." |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 6:57pm
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its not really beleiving as so having faith ------------- 
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 7:07pm
Thank you. I did a search, pretty neat stuff, but the missing books im refering to are the peices of the bible that were removed, since they are holy books the catholic church couldnt snuff them out completely. They remain safe as can be in hermeticly sealed rooms in the vatican vault. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: SuperXero
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 7:23pm
I've been born and raised a Roman Catholic, baptised, had my first confession and communion, been confirmed, etc... But have never believed in Jesus or God. This being said, I think the bible, once people stop trying to push fairy tales on me, and start taking it for the moral lesson, is a great book. And what you were sayign about corrupt politicians etc. There was actually a part of the bible dealing mainly with these people. The Revelations was a highly political book. In a recent discovery of a copy of Revelations, outdating the previous oldest copy by a couple hundred years, it says that the number of the beast is actually 616 as compared to 666, and many researchers are now saying that the beast is not actually referring to Satan, but Caligula, a roman emperor known for persecuting christians, and that numbers were used to refer to political figures so that the authors could not be prosecuted. ------------- Tenacious and Versatile |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 7:33pm
Im impresssed, not many people know that. The sign of the beast.. The beast being the roman political machine. Among religious scholars and the clergy, there is a bit of an elephant in the room. We now know that jesus was called the "Way of God" Not the son, never does he say he is the son. And in the origional bible, jesus was not devine. He gained his divinity in Neace, a bunch of people got together to discuss religion, Jesus, yoshewa, the king of the jews, dessended from the the lines of king david and the isrealite tribe of Benjamin, magicaly became devine. The books that displayed jesus as a less devine being, disapeered. Thinking about the missing years of jesus' life? Maybe the fact that he wasnt married? Highly iregular in that time for a jewish man to not take a wife. Jesus was supposed to be the king of the jews. He was royalty, the profecy called for the savior to come through the line of david, he was a political enemy of the Roman Empire, and the romans were scared of him. His crucifiction was largly political if anything. He was killed in order to quell a rebelion that would look bad under pontious pilot. It would make it look like he couldnt even control one little province. Not a good thing. So, jesus was killed. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: madpaintballer
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:14pm
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I've always wondered about the translations. Like how in english we use the word love but in greek or hebrew (whichever testament it is) there are 3 different words which all mean different things that when translated are all translated into the word love. Kind of makes you wonder about some of the other translations, with the change of a word they could mean something totally different. ------------- "Killing is my business...and business is good." |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:19pm
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Bibles fuel the fires of Hell, I like how God forgot to include that in is work. The fuel has to come from somewhere. ------------- 
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:19pm
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Yep, the word for virgin means young girl. Love means several different things. Many things we hold to be truths, are false, the true meanings lost forever. If you want to find the truth, its there, but its in latin or greek. The english translations are wrong, and unreliable. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:27pm
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Some of the Bible is literal, but I would say a pretty large portion of it is open to interpretation.
God isn't handing out answers like candy on Halloween-sometimes you have to work hard, and sometimes you just plain can't find out. Whether it makes sense to you or not-keep reading it, maybe it will. |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:28pm
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I have a serious question for those that wish to answer it. I promise not reply to the answers with a negative response or retort, I am just curious what people's thoughts on the question is...
Since (most) Christian's believe life starts and the spirit enters the human body at consception, why is it horrible that abortions occur form the 'babies' stand point? Wouldn't the child be sin free and get a free ticket straight to heaven without having to live through the dissapointments and pain that one endures in life? Just putting the question out there to see what people think. Again I will only to view a response as your opinion/belief and use it only as an educational viewpoint and not try to debate the answer. -------------
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:29pm
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Correct, a lot of the bible is literal, and it means what it says. But a lot of it is in alegories, because in the jewish faith you couldnt talk directly about god or scripture, so parables were used. The parable of the viniard is my favorite.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:35pm
You have a point Hades. The child would be guilty of no sin. The concept of "Origional Sin" is a human one. Created by man. The bible says you are responsible for what you know. So, by that, we can infer that if you have never heard the word of god, and you die, you are not held accountable. SO, babies would not go to hell or limbo(another human invention) or purgatory or whatever. Hades, in short, its Political, religion turned to politics, and it sucks. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:44pm
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If, we, for the sake of the point, forgot about he parent's and doctor's breaking of the, "Thou shall not Murder," sin; from the child's perspective and most Christian religion's perspective, looking at the child only, is there anything negative, with the child going straight to heaven and having an eternal life of happiness? If, one says no, than from the kid's perspective is than abortion bad?
Did my question make any sense?  -------------
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Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:47pm
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DB has it pretty spot on.
That said, the problem is with taking a life, not anything to do with their sinfullness. It's a sin to murder-period. Which means abortion is a sin. No matter how much I can see people suffering from the lack of an abortion, most of those people don't die-I'll trade one life for another, but not one life for less pain. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:48pm
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Hades, you are really getting into dogmatic teachings of religion, aborted fetuses dont go to hell. They have done nothing wrong. They came to be knowing only life. Not evil. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:49pm
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Ahh...I see. Cool poops.
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:50pm
I edited it, i figured you would think i said "Nope" to you. I agree with you.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 9:05pm
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Okay, I have read enough thank you for your thoughts. If more want to chime in I will read your thoughts as well. -------------
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 9:28pm
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I used to be quite religious ... until I actually read the Bible, cover to cover. That pretty much turned me off to Christianity, at least until further notice. |
Posted By: soonerdude05
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 9:46pm
How did reading the Bible turn you off from Christianity? ------------- 
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Posted By: SuperXero
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 9:54pm
The realization of what you are worshipping. ------------- Tenacious and Versatile |
Posted By: SuperXero
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 9:55pm
Actually, my sister would often be found kicking my brother on the ultrasound (yes it WAS on purpose), so she would go to hell, my brother would laugh at her from heaven. ------------- Tenacious and Versatile |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:12pm
You either missed the point completely. Or dont know how to read through the crap, to get what is really there and not mistranslations. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:16pm
Essentially. Once I really understood Christianity, I realized that god, if he exists, has morals that are completely inconsistent with mine. By my standards, god is not worthy of my admiration, and certainly not worthy of worshop of any kind. If that means I will burn in hell for eternity, then so be it - I will burn knowing that I held fast to my moral beliefs.
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:17pm
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Example? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:24pm
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Not a particular chapter/verse - I wasn't too bothered by the Cains/Abels/Abrahams/Jacobs/Rending She-Bears/Bashing Infants kind of stuff. To take a complex problem, and oversimplify for convenience: The first commandment. Thou shalt have no God before me (or other phrasing of your choice). Different denominations treat the details differently, but the central hypothesis remains: To be in the "in" group, and be admitted to Heaven, you have to believe in god. I hold freedom of thought and belief very dear. The idea that Heaven is only open to people who believe the way god decrees is offensive. Again, drastically oversimplified, but you perhaps get the idea. |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:31pm
I wholeheartedly agree. If there is a God. -------------
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:35pm
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Well. Your talking in terms of the old testament. After the OT jesus overturned a lot of things. Its never said you had to believe in god to go to heaven. It does say, "the only way to heaven is through me" meaning, through the way of god.
Basicaly, what im saying, is no one is saying to have to scream his name on high and all that mess. There are many many ways to serve god. The vatican records are full of saints that hated god. But they served him. Wich is what is important. For instance, St.Sebastian, St.Guinifort. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: SuperXero
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:36pm
What would be meant by that is... Well, although you have the freedom of thought, etc, He wishes to be thoguht of as the only God, that you not see anyone else as having a Godly status, or anything else, as they are not true Gods, and to this would be dissrespectful. Half the ten commandments are just common manners, and to treat someone as an equal to God would be considered disrepectful. Keep in mind, this is just my interpretation, I don't claim to be an expert, or believe in any way. ------------- Tenacious and Versatile |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:40pm
Exactly, being respected, in gods eyes, is paramount. It would apear this way because the first 3 comandments are souly about not having any other gods and respecting god. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:41pm
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Not OT at all. I used the commandment as a convenient summary. As you point out, Jesus was pretty clear on the subject. That verse probably bothers me more than any other single verse in the entire Bible. Ask your priest/pastor. Assuming you have been exposed to The Word, can one get into Heaven without believing? I don't know of a single denomination that says "yes", other than some very new barely-Christian groups. Some denominations require works, some don't, but faith is always at the foundation. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:43pm
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And this idea is incredibly offensive to me. No, not offensive - EVIL. If this is what god wants, then god is, by my moral standards, evil. I pray to the First Amendment. Freedom of speech, religion, and thought. |
Posted By: SuperXero
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:43pm
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I think that you cna get in without believer, as long as you live the way outlined by the ten commandments, my teacher in elementary agreed with this, and it is the teaching of my church. ------------- Tenacious and Versatile |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:44pm
Most Roman Catholics don't realize it, but according to Catholic dogma, one does not need to be Christian at all to go to Heaven. Imagine that . . . . ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:45pm
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Erica - technically, yes, you are correct. But the RC church require sacraments, including confession of sins, which in a roundabout way amounts to the same thing... |
Posted By: SuperXero
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:49pm
Would you hold God and Charles Manson at the same standard, it would be highly dissrepectful to God to do that, not just becasue He is God, but because you would not have a stranger come before your biological father for example. God is supposed to be your ultimate father, so to say anything else is like him is to lower him to another level. Perhaps God, with twisted sense of humour, would take that God being evil comment and send you to spend eternity in hell with satan .
And I think He would largely frown upon you praying to man's law over His. ------------- Tenacious and Versatile |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:53pm
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There is a valey in france. Some heretic country bumpkin repaired the wing of an angel. He was sainted.
St. Terasa had sex with an angel. Bickety bam, sainted. True, you need to beleive, you need to have faith. But my point is, there are other ways to serve, other than being completely subservient. True, you need to know your place. But if you have problems with individual verse. Your picking the wrong bones. Verse like that, has been changed so many times. That you are arguing the wrong points. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 10:58pm
You have no idea. Work for a church. I do, seriously, i teach sunday school. Last summer, i said some things that got back to parents. The parents didnt like what i said. But it is right there in the bible. Not hidden or anything. Right there in black and white. There are lots of little loop holes. And they are spelled out in parable. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:17pm
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Bam - that makes god evil. EDIT - subservience wouldn't bother me nearly as much as the required belief. Thought control is the most evil thing of all, and Christianity is all about the thought control.
Nope - no particular problems with the verses. I read the Bible the first time in a very educated fashion, with plenty of guidance, and had many conversations with clergy at the time. I have also read different translations, and different languages (although not the original). I am not getting hung up on individual verses - it is the central tenet of christianity that bothers me. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:20pm
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Not sure what you mean - but evil is evil. Manson, my father, god - if they are evil, they are evil.
That would pretty much prove my point... Although if the Christians are right I am Hell-bound anyway. I kinda like Stan, though.
Which is exactly my point. That makes god evil.
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:21pm
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Knowing your place doesnt make god evil. Having faith, doesnt mean god is evil.
What denomination of clergy did you speak with? Generaly, christian clergy mean well, but can be misguided. Speak with a Rabi, very very knowledgable and some of the most carring people i have ever had the pleasure of discusing religion with. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:24pm
1 that doesnt make god evil. god isnt evil. 2. God repects the laws of man. St. Pauls letter to the romans. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:25pm
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Nope - but making faith a requirement is evil.
At the time, Lutheran. As you may have noticed, I like talking religion, and have since discussed this point with people of practically every denomination and every faith, including a couple of Rabbis. I actually find the Jewish faith more open-minded than Christianity, but even there the central required monotheism is strongly present.
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:26pm
Acctually the baby would go to limbo, limbo is for the non-belivers and the unbabtized. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:29pm
Faith isnt a requirment. Blind faith, is idiocy, faith is a biproduct of strong beliefs. And i am very very fond of my Jewish counterparts, i go to temple often, but i am not Jewish, i am welcome because "I am not a trouble maker" But the Jewish faith is not monotheistic..  In the Kabala, it speaks of a Male god, and a female goddess.------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:29pm
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Don't focus on the law. The law isn't important. It's about the underlying principle. Freedom of thought is important, whether encoded in law or not. Thought control is evil, whether undertaken by Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, the Inquisition, feminazis, or god. If you aren't free in your own mind, how can you ever be free? Thought control isn't just evil - it is the greatest of all evils. |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:30pm
Well, despite my being an atheist, I still was believed—excuse the pun—to be knowledgable enough about the Catholic teachings and universal morality to be made a student minister at my Catholic high school. Tension first built because of the argument that deals with people who never had a chance to be even exposed to Christianity. This sparked the Catholic movement to change from exclusivist to a more inclusivist one. Finally, at Vatican II, this statement, which I had to dig up from the http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm - Internet for exact wording, was issued: "The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church." The gist of today's teaching is pretty simple, really. Imagine that there are three physical paths through a forest to one beautiful freshwater lake. The first path, labelled "Catholic," is the easiest—but, of course, a traveller can still become misguided and never end up at Lake Salvation. The second path, "Other Christians," is slightly more difficult, lined with bridges that may or may not hold as one tries to cross to the goal, as well as other obstacles. Third, the "Atheist/Agnostic/Non-Christian Religion" path lies as an alternative, but the traveller may find reaching Lake Salvation a quite arduous task, only possible through techniques that an experienced traveller, who probably would have simply taken the "Catholic" trail, would utilize. But, despite the extra obstacles of the two alternative paths, in the end all can reach Lake Salvation. Obviously, this is a metaphor, but you get the idea, I hope. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:30pm
Limbo is a concept invented by man. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:31pm
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I used the word incorrectly - my bad. I meant "only my god(s) is/are permitted". Mono-belief would be a better term. |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:33pm
God does not control freedom of thought, persons may choose to beleive in him or not. Dante's Inferno states unbaptized and non beleivers go to limbo, so do most other writtings. Limbo is not hell, it is a place of sorrow but not of pain. One point I forgot to mention is that Limbo I have only seen mentioned in the Inferno, it may very well be a creation of Dante. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:34pm
I bow to your superior knowledge of Catholic teachings. If the RC church will let me in to Heaven while denying the divinity of god, then the RC church is a whole lot less evil than the Protestants. :) |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:34pm
Hmm, god does not want to control your thoughts. God loves you, and thats all he wats, your love. Thoght control isnt gods goal. Im going to play devils advocate and say that it is the catholic churches goal. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:36pm
—My thoughts exactly. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:36pm
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I wouldn't base my beliefs on Dante... But you are right - God doesn't CONTROL my thoughts. He simply REQUIRES that I think in a certain way. Ultimately, the same thing. Just like Congress could never truly control my thoughts, they might pass a law making it illegal, and punishable by death, to think about girls more than 3 hours per day. That would be just as evil as simply controlling my mind. |
Posted By: mysteriousone
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:39pm
you make a good point but how would they know what you were thinking? -------------  "Where is your beer tonight? I hope its a heineken."
Jesus is my savior |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:40pm
Speaking of points, I think you missed his . . . . ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: mysteriousone
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:41pm
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^^ oh my bad ------------- "Where is your beer tonight? I hope its a heineken."
Jesus is my savior |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:44pm
------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:44pm
You have a long life ahead of you. Why don't you try understanding religion before you start making a spiritual commitment to it? Like I said, there's plenty of time. Take a break, and think things over. If anyone was the epitome of questioning their faith to become more fulfilled, then it was Jesus Christ; just look at his examination of traditional Judaism. —So I think He'd understand. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:52pm
—Not necessarily, though, because it really depends on the denomination. Remember that the Protestant and the Calvinist schisms occurred a very long time ago—and a very long time before Vatican II, as well! Therefore, since the teaching that I described was not in existence when the Protestant churches formed, whether or not they are exlusive or inclusive depends solely on how the denomination evolved since its inception. I know for a fact that some denominations, especially Fundamentalist/Literalist ones, follow an exclusivist belief stating that you must be of their denomination to recieve salvation. And just for the record, my favorite Christian denomination, other than the Roman Catholic Church, is the Methodist Church. —Not that my personal opinion matters, but I figured that I'd throw that fact out there. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:53pm
But this is inconsistent with what I was told by every clergy with whom I have ever spoken. Ask your Southern Baptist pastor if the requirement for Heaven is "basically don't cause harm to others or yourself" - I doubt he will agree. Nor, apparently, do many forumers. Every clergy with whom I have ever spoken has agreed that it is against the rules to believe in other gods. It is against the rules to NOT believe in Yahweh/Allah. Exceptions are often made for those with no opportunity to believe, but the responses I get for active god-deniers is pretty uniform, except for EJP's point, which I will have to investigate further. And even if faith isn't a requirement for Heaven - the thread is pretty strong in the Bible: You must think in a certain way. You must hold certain beliefs. And that is, in my book, simply unacceptable. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:55pm
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Catholics have the best music. Methodists have the best barbeques. |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:55pm
But if all Christians beleive in the same Heaven and the same Hell then they cant all be right. Its not Protestant Heaven and Catholic Heaven its Heaven. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 18 June 2005 at 11:55pm
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Hence the problem... And we haven't even gotten to Islam yet... |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:04am
Fine, Clark, just take all the logical fallacies, why don't you? ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:06am
------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:07am
We will find out when we die, cant say much more then that. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:11am
It's called the Apocrypha. You can read as much of it as you'd like on the Internet, just go http://www.comparative-religion.com/christianity/apocrypha/ - here or sundry other sites. Think of it this way: you know how cult classics like Star Wars tend to have a great deal of bad fan fiction written by . . . fans? Well, obviously, it's often no good at all so they're not going to add it to the official Star Wars collection of books. That's basically most of the Apocrypha. Just remember that anyone can write and say that they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. And the Church tried very, very hard to find out which books were the most reliable and communicated the essence of Jesus' teachings most effectively. Clearly, stories like The Gospel of Thomas, where young Jesus kills neighborhood children, would not be a very good part of the Bible. Yes, you are correct, by the way, that they are missing years of Jesus' life. However, who was going to pay attention to just another kid in Jerusalem? That right there is the reason that we know little to no information regarding Jesus' childhood. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:12am
But why would it matter if it is a love story? The Song of Songs also deals with romantic love, and that book is in the Bible. Therefore, that obviously isn't the reason for keeping it out of the collection of Sacred Scripture. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:13am
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Sorry, computer problems. A mod, if you would so kindly delete this post . . . . ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:15am
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Sorry, computer problems again. A mod, if you would so kindly delete this post . . . .
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Posted By: SuperXero
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:16am
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Well, check this out
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html - Belief-O-Matic 1. Unitarian Universalism (100%) 2. Secular Humanism (96%) 3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (92%) 4. Liberal Quakers (88%) 5. Nontheist (69%) 6. Bahá'í Faith (68%) 7. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (68%) 8. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (64%) 9. Theravada Buddhism (60%) 10. Jehovah's Witness (57%) 11. Neo-Pagan (56%) 12. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (45%) 13. Orthodox Quaker (42%) 14. New Age (40%) 15. New Thought (38%) 16. Taoism (38%) 17. Reform Judaism (35%) 18. Sikhism (35%) 19. Scientology (28%) 20. Mahayana Buddhism (27%) 21. Jainism (25%) 22. Seventh Day Adventist (21%) 23. Hinduism (17%) 24. Eastern Orthodox (17%) 25. Islam (17%) 26. Orthodox Judaism (17%) 27. Roman Catholic (17%) My number 1 basically believes in the principles of the bible, but without God. ------------- Tenacious and Versatile |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:23am
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The fact is that the Bible does hold a certain level that Christians are supposed to live up to. I'm a Protestant, and I have no problem with my beliefs. I don't deny that there are others who believe differently than I do, and I leave their beliefs to them. I believe that I'm following my beliefs-I do not however police the beliefs of other people. The Bible is a personal Book, and it seems that everyone has slightly to extremely different slants on the principles contained therein. If you disagree with my take on those-I don't make any apologies, but that doesn't make me or you any better. I have my beliefs on Heaven and Hell, but it's not for me to say who's going to inhabit either. And on the topic, arguing religion and politics is pointless. That's a fact. Trying to convince anyone of your belief or disbelief in God is a complete waste of your time and the people you're talking to. I believe in Evangelism, but I highly disagree with launching insults and arguments on the Internet just to say "I'm right you're wrong go to hell". That's retarded and shows someone's true intelligence. You can take all of that how you want, but after reading hundreds of forum posts on religion, that's my two cents. It's useless. Here's my advice if you feel like arguing religion- Go to the hardware store Buy a metal bucket Take the bucket and put it on your head Scream into it until you run out of breath and pass out You will have just accomplished more than what you would have trying to convince someone that you're right and they're wrong. ------------- 
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:23am
| Xero: I got very similar results. I think that's what happens when you check "N/A" a lot... |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:28am
Baptists are one of the largest Protestant denominations in the US. By definition, that makes them pretty mainstream, although their beliefs are pretty far to one end. I don't think you get to casually dismiss Baptists.
How about Buddhists? They don't believe in a god at all. Or Hindus, who believe in several gods who are constantly trying to kill each other. Or how about Satanists? Are they also praying to the same god? The whole "all gods are one" is a bit of a copout, given the variety of human beliefs out there. So many human faiths are expressly or by implication inconsistent with each other. They can't all be right. |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:36am
------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: SuperXero
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:37am
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Watch the Satanist thing, it isn't as dark and evil and virgin-sacrificing as you think, and to quote one of the websites I visited "We don't even believe in Satan!". I'm the wrong person to ask about it, google it for yourself.
Also, Buddhists and Hindus don't believe in one of the key poitns we are arguing, that if you live by the bible or its standards we will go to heaven, even if we didn't believe in it previously. The aformentioned groups believe in Karma, which has the same idea of the afterlife for other religions, the better person you are in life, the better afterlife you will have. ------------- Tenacious and Versatile |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:52am
Have you ever written a poem before? —Just out of curiousity, really. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:54am
Aren't those synonymous? If that was a joke, forgive me for taking you seriously. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 1:05am
Do you know what Christology is? Just in case you don't (and dictionary.com does not give a very good definition), it is a study of who Jesus really was—how "divine" He was, among other things. There are two kinds of Christology: high and low. High asserts that Jesus was divine, while low states that He was not. Simple enough, right? The earlier gospels tend to favor a low Christology, but sometimes, and especially in the Gospel of John, a high Christology crops up. So, it is erroneous to say that the gospels never claimed that Jesus was/is divine. Also, where in the Bible does the question of whether or not He was married appear? I don't think that it does, but I could be wrong here. I think that the concept of Jesus being unmarried came later in time. However, it is only rational to assume that He probably never married since none of the more legit writings really mention a wife. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 1:06am
Here you're asking the big question: what is the meaning of life? ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 1:06am
What do you know, we're basically twins. I mean, at least as far as this general line of thought goes . . . . Yeah. ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 1:09am
Um, Do you mean the same St. Teresa who helped found the Discalced Carmelites? And also, you'd be surprised how intact the Bible is compared to how it was in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Of course, that probably has a great deal to do with the fact that in translations a bunch of leeway is given, and the original translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls were all Catholic . . . . But, hey, who knows, right? ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 19 June 2005 at 3:49am
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Another thing that bothers me is if God is such a wonferful being and all good? Why hasnt he forgiven Satan yet? Hasnt he suffered long enough? What kind of God ia a hypocrite to tell his followers to forgive and not do so himself.
Glad Lady Clark was around tonight to do all the work. :P -------------
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