Okay, here goes-

Military=bad idea. There are many people who can't serve in the military, and many who don't choose to. Citizenship shouldn't be based on the willingness to die for your country,HOWEVER-

I agree with you that too many Americans my age tend to take this nation for granted. They're born into freedom, and they feel its their right to be free. But it's not. If that were true, everyone would be free. It's a privilage to live in a free nation. I feel that a simple test would be fine, with perhaps some oaths or whatnot. Then, if you commit a serious crime (aka murder, rape, child molestation) you could have your citizenship revoked, and be forced to live with a restricted lifestyle or leave this nation (i.e. no bank accounts, no car loans, no credit cards, no government assistance). That would deter crime.

I would just move to Switzerland. Skiing is fun.

But seriously, forcing somebody to earn citizenship wouldn't be a good idea, IMO. The ones who do earn it would be more grateful of what they have, and the ones who didn't get it would riot and protest. Now, I believe if you are born in the United States to parents who are citizens, you should automatically be a citizen(like it is now). I don't really have a policy on immigrants yet, so I'll have to think on it.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, I believe that felonies and other disservices to the country should have their citizenships revoked. Not sure about the current law on that, so please correct me if there is already a law.

If you are going to base your political view on Starship Troopers, at least go and read the book.  Much better than the movie anyway.

Heinlein makes a tempting case for this proposal.  As always, however, the devil is in the details.

DBibeau855 wrote: There are rumblings about passing law that would make it impossible to do things like own a house or open a bank account without being a citizen.

I think you mean "... without being a legal resident."

I'll take this a step further.  You can be a citizen just by being born here, but the right to vote should be reserved for only those who own property of have served in the military.

That way poor people can't keep electing senators who promise to keep giving them more and more of other people's money!  I think it was either Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin that said, "as soon as the public figures out they can vote themselves money, it will be the end of the Republic."  And if you aren't a property owner, the military is your ticket to the vote.

No Quarter wrote: I'll take this a step further.  You can be a citizen just by being born here, but the right to vote should be reserved for only those who own property of have served in the military. That way poor people can't keep electing senators who promise to keep giving them more and more of other people's money!  I think it was either Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin that said, "as soon as the public figures out they can vote themselves money, it will be the end of the Republic."  And if you aren't a property owner, the military is your ticket to the vote.

You might have tied Linus for some of the worst ideas ever. Taking the right to vote away from the poor is ridiculous, mainly because you already see where the rich white people have led the country, we don't need an even bigger group of people to be disenfranchised for hundreds of years.

Linus, I have never seen you put yourself into a category of regular people. Your comments all make it seem like you are above the normal person. Illegal immigrants, foreigners, even forumers, you claim to be more intelligent, more civil, less savage, and more deserving of rights. It's quite scary.

Cedric wrote: You shouldn't have to do anything that you don't want to do.

Like pay into abused national programs?

Disability, etc. 

Fat Stalin wrote: Dune wrote: Every American should receive citizenship, and it should be quick and free for anyone entering the country that wants a better life. And no, there should be no force on us to fight in a war on the other side of the world. They are getting a better life by ruining ours. Example: My uncles were painters in South Carolina. They would be offered jobs to paint large industrial buildings but would be 'outbid' by Hispanics. The Hispanics wouldn't have to pay taxes, or worker comps (whatever you call them) to the government becasue they weren't citizens. My uncles would. The Hispanics could therefore do the jobs cheaper and my uncles had to go into a different line of work. I think we should do more to help them in their home country instead of here.

Add hospitals into the equation. They get hurt, a hospital won't turn them away.  American tax dollars that they aren't paying.

Parts of my family did it, hell, parts of almost everyone's family did it. I'm not saying make it too easy, but not like it is. Claiming that they'd all flood isn't true either, if they want to come now they do, illegal or legal. There would be more taxes paid and more chances that you wouldn't lose your jobs to people that will work harder than you.

Fat Stalin wrote: Dune wrote: Every American should receive citizenship, and it should be quick and free for anyone entering the country that wants a better life. And no, there should be no force on us to fight in a war on the other side of the world. They are getting a better life by ruining ours. Example: My uncles were painters in South Carolina. They would be offered jobs to paint large industrial buildings but would be 'outbid' by Hispanics. The Hispanics wouldn't have to pay taxes, or worker comps (whatever you call them) to the government becasue they weren't citizens. My uncles would. The Hispanics could therefore do the jobs cheaper and my uncles had to go into a different line of work. I think we should do more to help them in their home country instead of here.

Wow.  You did a great job of arguing against your own point.

stratoaxe wrote: Okay, here goes- Military=bad idea. There are many people who can't serve in the military, and many who don't choose to. Citizenship shouldn't be based on the willingness to die for your country,HOWEVER- I agree with you that too many Americans my age tend to take this nation for granted. They're born into freedom, and they feel its their right to be free. But it's not. If that were true, everyone would be free. It's a privilage to live in a free nation. I feel that a simple test would be fine, with perhaps some oaths or whatnot. Then, if you commit a serious crime (aka murder, rape, child molestation) you could have your citizenship revoked, and be forced to live with a restricted lifestyle or leave this nation (i.e. no bank accounts, no car loans, no credit cards, no government assistance). That would deter crime.

With the state of our justice system, this would ruin even more lives than we already do.

Nothing yet has deterred crime. It is a difficult thing to do generally speaking. The death penalty is the biggest waste of money and time we have ever had, and that does nothing to deter crime.

Sammy wrote: And if they have a baby here it becomes a US Citizen and then the family usually gets to stay.

Not anymore, unless they changed it back.

I liked Arizona in passing an english only law. Illiegal immigration is a HUGE problem so giving citizenship to anyone is really bad. I think it was Dune who said that illiegals get hired over citizens because they will do the same job for little to nothing. Also, when they immigrate illiegaly, they cause lots of trouble. They tresspass, litter, steal, vandalize, ect. It is so bad that many ranchers near the border in AZ told the border patrol to do somthing about it or they will begin to fire upon tresspassers/illiegals, which would be 100% legal there. They even messed with cattle and stuff, which is punishable in that state by an immidiate on the spot lynching. Still a law on the books, at least before I moved from there.

So my point, citizenship given to anyone who wants it is a very bad idea.

And stick with the system we have now.

Fat Stalin wrote: Explain?

I think Clark meant when your family came from Russia they could have taken a job from someone else.

It isn't racist. We deny all people from other countries, reguardless of race until they meet the set requirements. I personaly think we should close all borders and isolate ourselves for a few years.

Dune wrote: Immigration is not a HUGE problem as people keep saying. It's amazing to see people so quick to point fingers to the outside world to blame them. Everyone's so afraid of the teorrists coming in, or immigrants vandalising. There are much worse people already living here, so denying good people the right to come here is ridiculous and racist.

My dads friend was working in Arizona for a while. He said at many stop signs, mexican immagrants that did not speak english jumped into the back of his pickup trying to get a ride to whatever job site they could.

That seems pretty bad to me.

Its true that they do that. Thats why its legal to carry loaded guns there.

But the funny part is when too many pack in the back of a truck and they flip it over.

Dune wrote: If it wasn't so difficult to become citizens we wouldn't have these problems.

We would have more problems. Overpopulation and such. Tons more people living off wellfare. Tons more homeless people. A rise in the crime rate due to lack of jobs.

Murdock wrote: Dune wrote: If it wasn't so difficult to become citizens we wouldn't have these problems. We would have more problems. Overpopulation and such. Tons more people living off wellfare. Tons more homeless people. A rise in the crime rate due to lack of jobs.

I'm glad your political science degree has led you to see into the future.

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I'm glad your political science degree has led you to see into the future.

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Me too.

Shame shame shame, cry me a freakin river.

I'm ganna stand here and give you a stern look all day long you naughty little man.

its proably a good thing we are, we need to salvage what we can of this place that you people are screwin up so badly every stinkin day

Dune wrote: It's a compelling argument, to hate foreigners because they may get a few jobs over you. It's too bad that racism exists in full force today.

Reading the combined thoughts of the "other side" in this thread and the homosexual marriage thread, has the same effect on brain cells as taking a rag, soaking it in paint thinner, and taking a big ol' huff.

Its simply amazing.

"Im not racists, but mexicans jump in the back of trucks and steal jobs"

....

Hey, nice marmot!

Dune wrote: You're one of those hillbilly type guys that are scared you are loosing your white country to the mexicans and blacks right? Funny, pathetic, but funny.

Living in a right wing redneck area of my state I know that these people still exist.

Sad though, figuring how far along America has come along, to still see idiots like that....

Hey, nice marmot!

Dune wrote: Nothing yet has deterred crime. It is a difficult thing to do generally speaking. The death penalty is the biggest waste of money and time we have ever had, and that does nothing to deter crime.

Nothing has deterrred crime?

Think about that.

And does it cost more to kill someone or feed and clothe them for the rest of their life in prison?

Murdock wrote: i dont care what color a person is, ill kick em to the curb all the same

You do know that when you say somthing like that, you sound childish and idiotic, right?

But, never the less, I will bite.

What, may I inquire, would you "kick em to the curb" over? What needs that kind of violence?

Hey, nice marmot!

agentwhale007. wrote: Dune wrote: It's a compelling argument, to hate foreigners because they may get a few jobs over you. It's too bad that racism exists in full force today. Reading the combined thoughts of the "other side" in this thread and the homosexual marriage thread, has the same effect on brain cells as taking a rag, soaking it in paint thinner, and taking a big ol' huff. Its simply amazing. "Im not racists, but mexicans jump in the back of trucks and steal jobs" ....

How am I being racist? By calling them mexicans? Thats what they are, if they are citizens of Mexico and not the United States...

Jim Paint wrote: Dune wrote: Nothing yet has deterred crime. It is a difficult thing to do generally speaking. The death penalty is the biggest waste of money and time we have ever had, and that does nothing to deter crime.   Nothing has deterrred crime? Think about that. And does it cost more to kill someone or feed and clothe them for the rest of their life in prison?

Pick up a book before you ask that question. It costs a lot more to put a person on death row and then execute them than it does to put them up for the rest of their life in prison.

Jim Paint wrote: And does it cost more to kill someone or feed and clothe them for the rest of their life in prison?

Kill them.

Its been proven many a time that it is much more expensive to kill somebody through capital punishment.

Hey, nice marmot!

Jim Paint wrote: agentwhale007. wrote: Dune wrote: It's a compelling argument, to hate foreigners because they may get a few jobs over you. It's too bad that racism exists in full force today. Reading the combined thoughts of the "other side" in this thread and the homosexual marriage thread, has the same effect on brain cells as taking a rag, soaking it in paint thinner, and taking a big ol' huff. Its simply amazing. "Im not racists, but mexicans jump in the back of trucks and steal jobs" ....   How am I being racist? By calling them mexicans? Thats what they are, if they are citizens of Mexico and not the United States...

I was refering to Murdock on that one, who said somthing to the effect of pointing guns at them and flipping the truck when they do that.

Sorry about that, that wasnt ment for you.

Hey, nice marmot!

thats somthing that comes by on a case by case basis

the only way a nation split almost exactly in two is going to solve anything is with a good old fashioned brawl. All because nobody can agree, politicians stall every proposal, and what happens when people can't agree and negotiations fail? someone gets kicked to the curb

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I was refering to Murdock on that one, who said somthing to the effect of pointing guns at them and flipping the truck when they do that.

Sorry about that, that wasnt ment for you.

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I never said I point guns at people you idiot. I said its legal to carry loaded firearms so when some moron decides to hop in your car or truck, you blow their friggin brains out. Not give them your keys and wallet, or ask them where they wish to go because you were so gracious to pick them up.