Scotland Yard murders Brazilian
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=140269
Printed Date: 30 July 2026 at 3:54pm
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Topic: Scotland Yard murders Brazilian
Posted By: Badsmitty
Subject: Scotland Yard murders Brazilian
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 5:58pm
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For those of you who earlier were praising and excusing the killing of this man: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165960,00.html - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165960,00.html
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Replies:
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:00pm
| I already had a thread on it Badsmitty, but glad to see you noticed it too. |
Posted By: agentwhale007.
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:02pm
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But but but.. What was a man with brown skin doing trying to ride a train anyway? Who does he think he is??? ------------- Hey, nice marmot!  |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:07pm
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Anyone remember all of the stuff being said about this? All of the excuses and justifications? |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:08pm
| Of course, it was all this guy's fault. He deserved to get shot when he ran. That's what you get when you scare your police and public into "kicking ass and taking names later." |
Posted By: reifidom
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:09pm
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An innocent man was shot, so somebody messed up, but it's a bit early to say just how and at what point should this have been stopped. It kind of snowballed from a misidentification to the shooting. Every story I read has something different.
http://www.itv.com/news/index_1677571.html - More... Aggression and caution don't mix, unfortunately. ------------- 
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Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:12pm
| Guns and idiots don't mix. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:15pm
| The new articles are dircetly pointing to murder. Just a denim jacket, no bags, and not hoping the turnstyle show that this was the fault of the department only. |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:16pm
| He was armed with a newspaper, however. |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:17pm
| Oh well, gotta go. There is a candle light vigil tonight on the court house steps for Cindy Sheehan's cause. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:18pm
| Yes, and everyone knows that you can't tackle a man with a newspaper in his hand, as he could detonate the paper at anytime, so shooting him 8 times is the only rational thing to do. |
Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:18pm
I'd like to cite my response given in Dune's thread.
Sorry to break up the ultra liberal slumber party. If it was in fact as the new story is saying, then those cops are toast. ------------- 
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Frozen Balls wrote:Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:20pm
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You're right, it is a new story. However, it was the jumping to conclusions that makes this twist interesting. |
Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:22pm
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Which is why all we can do is bark at each other and bandy witty phrases about until the investigation is solidified.
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:24pm
| Yes, but as I stated from the beginning, I had my doubts and I would wait until all info is collected. Thus far, it seems as if the idea of shooting first to protect the masses policy has been a mistake. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:43pm
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Whoooo Caaaares. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:44pm
| I think everyone should care. He's an innocent, shot by the police. The taking of any life is a big deal and should be investigated to the best of its ability, especially when done in these circumstances, by officers who are supposed to be protecting these people. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:51pm
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Happens all the time in DC.. All.. the.. time.. Accidents happen, no one is crusified, and all the librals dont come out of the woodwork. You hear about 1 percent of the inocents that get shot and thats being generous. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:52pm
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You just made that number up...
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:53pm
| That's a general overstatement, but whatever helps you sleep at night. Many innocents are arrested and have physical force used on them; however, the number of innocents killed by officers is not an "all the time" thing. However the case, each one should be examined, studied, investigated, and those responsible should be held so, especially since it is their job to protect. This is a big deal, as each one should be. |
Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:54pm
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Dbibeau, give up.. No one believes anything you say.
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:57pm
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My point is these things happen. It happens all the time. The last inocent person to get shot they did a little story about it. The guy was backing out of an alley a cop unloaded on him. It got 5 minutes of publicity.
These things happn, there will be a further investigation and the offending oficers will be dealt with. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:01pm
| It's a much bigger deal than you would like to give credit to. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:04pm
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Not any bigger than any other inocent man getting shot.. The media is making into one because its a good story and people like hearing about that sort of thing. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:05pm
| Getting shot by a dope dealer and getting shot by the police are very different. The dope dealer is not being paid to protect the citizens. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:08pm
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No that wasnt what i was talking about. In DC inocent people get shot my the police because of mix ups and jumpy cops in bad neighborhoods a lot. No month long news coveradge for them.
Discipline the officer and be done with it. Fire him, charge him with agravated assault, murder whatever. Just it doesnt need to be such a media circus. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:09pm
| It's only a media circus now because the officers lied about the events. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:11pm
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You are familiar with the blue wall when it comes to protecting fellow officers.
But they failed and lied on a massive bloody level. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:12pm
| Protecting officers is one thing, protecting them with lies is another. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:15pm
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I agree. They should be disciplined. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:19pm
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You lefties seem to be very happy that the guy was innocent, makes me wonder if you really care about him dying . . . ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:25pm
Such an ignorant statement. Why call for justice at all if the death did not matter? -------------
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:27pm
My point is, read what they are saying, its like they are cheering that he was innocent. True tone doesnt carry well on the internet but the tone I see isnt sadness or justice, its "party time". ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: bluemunky42
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:34pm
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http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity - http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity |
Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:48pm
Of course they would cheer his innocence. Now they can go on bashing your claims into the dirt with even greater authority and perusasion than before. -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007.
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:52pm
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Does anybody actually trust those Brazilians anyway? ------------- Hey, nice marmot! |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 7:53pm
Missed my point again. I havent seen anything they said they were truely remorseful about this event, or truely wanted justice. From what I saw they were just happy that they were right and he was innocent and the conservatives that were happy about a killed terrorist were wrong about him being a terrorist. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 8:14pm
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That is truly ignorant, no one would celebrate that. |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 8:16pm
I'm just saying what I am seeing nowadays. I've finnaly realized every political thread here has one side saying "hahaha, we were right and you were wrong", no matter how severe the topic being disscussed. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 8:18pm
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I'd like to point out that I thought it was the right decision based on the original information.
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 8:29pm
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Yup. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 8:31pm
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It's just nice to see people change their minds when the new points have been brought to light. |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 8:52pm
Ha Ha Ha we were right and you were wrong. |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 17 August 2005 at 9:55pm
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Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 12:29am
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Spin it Darur, Spin it! Lord Limbaugh is watching you! ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 2:17am
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I wonder if the autopsy reveals if this Brazilian had a wax job that his country is so famous for. God Bless Brazil.
What happened to your thread, Dune? I didnt see it. ------------- 
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 3:25am
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http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=138516&KW=paki - Where are all the people in this thread now? IT WAS SO JUSTIFIED!!!! HE HAD A BOMB AND WAS RUNNING>>> -------------
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Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 6:48am
The neocons so cavalierly excused his killing, but now want to question our empathy? |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 8:49am
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Not sure actually. |
Posted By: Jim Paint
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 9:19am
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Why were undercover cops tailing him? There must be some reason for that. ------------- 
saepe fidelis |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 1:01pm
| Their reason was stupid. They were watching a whole block's worth of housing, so when he walked out they misidentified him. Then shot because he ran to catch a train, but never disobeyed the police. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 August 2005 at 1:07pm
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I never said he had a bomb. Turns out the camaras may show htat he in fact may not have ran. Oh well. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 12:56am
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I think the just think would be the parents coming from Brazil and unloading 8 rounds in the cop's head. I know I would be tempted if it were my child. All that cop and soldier worship is going a bit far these days. ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 12:58am
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Who cares. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: PlentifulBalls
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 1:08am
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Praise Allah!
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sporx wrote: well...ya i prolly will be a virgin till i'm at least 30. |
Posted By: mat_davies89
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 4:44am
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I think its excellent to see the UK using some proper force these days. If the police were shouting at him, and he ran, whether out of fear or misunderstanding, the police had every right to think that he was a suspect bomber and to shoot him down for the good of the public. Think of it the other way round; if the police had not have shot him, and he WAS a suicide bomber, we would be looking at scores of innocents who had died, not just one. The police acted in the most responsible way, and ended up with far less paperwork :P ------------- May Flürgen Nunquam Subsisto |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 6:59am
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Please read the information provided in the LINK in the very first post and contemplate your ignorance on the Tree of Woe. |
Posted By: goodsmitty
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 8:08am
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DUH. Read the link. If your only your second post is that ridiculous, start a new account under a new name. DUH. Oh, and Dibi, We were right and you were wrong, hahahahahahaha! ------------- "Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status." -Zesty |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 8:23am
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And people think linus is childish, good greif. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 9:05am
As in any case... more information provides a better means to form an opinion on the matter. I see no "thick" coat or jacket. I see no backpack. I see no protruding objects from underneath his clothes. I don't see any running. Given this information, my opinion will change on the justification of the shooting. However, as of this time, again... noting what little information we the public have, I will not jump on the torch-n-pitchfork bandwagon heading to Scotland Yard. And I still stand behind the use of pro-active measures to ensure the well being of the general public. Measures that I feel are still necessary to combat the people we are fighting. I understand that not everyone agrees with this opinion, and that's fine. These are not mere criminals, these are not your everyday drug-dealing thugs, or purse-snatchers... I don't even consider this fighting "Crime". This is war. A war I would MUCH rather not fight or be part of, but we aren't given a choice. And in war, there are casualties... many of them innocent civilians. ALWAYS unfortunate, but always inescapable. No matter how hard you try to minimize them... they'll come about. I won't get into the "right and wrong" argument. I feel that those types of back-n-forths are more dangerous than an actual attack. It's the same kind of crap that goes on everyday a few scant miles away from me on Capitol Hill. Always arguing over who was right and who was wrong, like kids arguing over whos daddy could beat up the others, instead of working towards a viable solution, and/or getting stuff accomplished. Yesterday, an innocent man got shot because he was mistaken for someone else. And one side, not without just cause, jumps up and screams. Tomorrow, three dozen innocent men are killed because action was not taken, when it could have; or because the ACLU wins a court battle to disallow random searches. And one side, not without just cause, jumps up and screams. There is no right way to do things. There will always be actions deemed "wrong" in hindsight. There will always be bickering on either side. These are CONSTANTS. They will ALWAYS be here. You may be right today, I may be right on Wednesday, the other guy might be right on the Tuesday after next... but we'll be wrong sometime, guaranteed. So relish in your "rightness" for now if you must. I never will, knowing that it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong. Someone's gonna die tomorrow, no matter what we do. Whether we're too aggressive, or too passive... someone's gonna die. And so long as that happens, I won't be pointing fingers and scoffing/laughing. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 9:51am
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Posted By: Jim Paint
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 9:59am
But youre against the death penalty? -------------
saepe fidelis |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 10:03am
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I've never seen goodsmitty argue against the death penalty. That would be me you're referring to me, amongst a few others. |
Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 10:36am
Yeah, let us change this point of view. We should not have any respect for the people who put their lives on the line to protect our way of life. How dare we ever side with them! 
Police and Military personnel are human beings too. Humans make errors. Police and Military personnel also follow orders, orders that you may not deem necessary at times (and they very well might not be)... but it's not the police officer or soldier that should always be responsible for following those orders. The orders came from someone else... someone who most likely it NOT a member of a law enforcement or the military. It amazes me how police and soldiers are always demonized as a group. An officer is involved in a shooting and an entire department (or all of law enforcement as a whole) is suddenly evil. A group of soldiers commit abuse on prisoners, and the entire US military is suddenly evil. Never is it pinned on the individuals involved, in the public eye. It's everyone. As a Filipino... I guess I'm a member of Abu Sayyaf, or looking further back, a Moro... who is against the American way of life. I'm evil. Just because another filipino happened to be that way. As an Irishman... I guess I'm a member of the IRA... and am guilty of killing innocent Brits because they're protestant and I want them out of Ireland. I'm evil. Just because another Irishman happened to be that way. If I were German, I suppose you could call me a Nazi. If I were Muslim, I suppose I'd automatically be a terrorist. Oh wait... you all have spent the better part of these last few threads arguing against stereotyping such people into lump groups... and debating that people shouldn't be judged based on what they look or what group they belong to. I guess that doesn't apply to police and the military? They're not human, they're not individuals, they're just groups in the wrong that we should do away with? |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 11:23am
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I don't think this is what he is trying to say. I don't think anybody here is suggesting that we should not have respect for military service. What smitty (and I as well) feel is that this is often taken to an irrational extreme. As you point out in your post, soldiers are people too, which is exactly what we are saying. All too often we hear that any challenge to the actions of a soldier/police officer is tantamount to "lack of respect". Military service is generally honorable - but it does not make you a diety. Soldiers are wrong just as often as other folk. |
Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 11:44am
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 4:13pm
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Yep, im of the opinion that most police are morons. They have to earn the respect, the gun and badge dont mean anything to me. They are just another person to me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 4:40pm
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So would you say the same about your soldiers? I mean, the gun, the camo, and they think they can conquer the world? I agree with goodsmitty and Clark, that there is just too much of this hero crap being tossed around, but to call them all morons and that they have power trips because you have had some bad run-ins with a tiny majority, it's quite humorous. |
Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 5:09pm
How are you platinum? So if "just another person" in a cop car in the uniform they use pulls you over, you are going to be disrespectful and treat him like a moron, despite you konwing nothing of the man(or woman)? Do they have to perform their rescues or duties in front of you in order for you to treat them as equal or better? Or is there a moronic way you choose which officers you in which to repect? *Newsflash* They did earn the badge and gun. Try to become a cop. See how dificult it is. If you become one without even trying, then I will retract this statement, but they are trained to do what they do. Some may be rather ass-holish, and some may not be as sufficient as others, but they are there to protect you and others. Calling police officers morons is incredibly ignorant, and is grounds for being slapped if I heard you say it in person. ------------- 
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