Not exactly, are you going to say that the men in Iraq are guppies casue the M16 is full auto, in woods ball there is normaly like one person that is semi like a sniper, and most other people have the fast guns. That's how it works out for me most of the time.

I like that model or the Pro/carbine more, they are the old school butt kickers

CdaCda, I feel sorry for you.  It's people like you that I absolutely cannot stand.  Why play the game if you cheat?  I've shot people like you, and nothing gets me more pissed.  It's dangerous to ramp.  If you lit me up and I was bleeding because your gun was at like 390 or something, lord help you.  You suck.

alejo_527 wrote: 98c sucks

and y is that

alejo_527 wrote: 98c sucks

Who the hell cares what u say!

bluemunky42 wrote: alejo_527 wrote: 98c sucks no, you suck. DSE, lay off. cheating is the name of the game. i hate to say it, but just look at the NPPL. do you have any idea how many ignored hopper hits get played in there? and bunker rubs? and hits on the knee or hand that are rubbed off on a slide? people deliberatley shoot the bunker just so they can argue that it was a bunker rub if they get hit.

What? CHEATING IS WHAT?!  I can't believe I just read that in the NEW PLAYER FORUMS. I don't believe that.  Do you think the NPPL is really a good place to look for starting players or to anybody in general?  The "God-Like" Dynasty team gets caught ramping on numerous occasions.  In my opinion, anyone that cheats is to be put plainly, a loser.  You can't win by playing by the rules, so you must cheat.  I would respect a team who always loses that doesn't cheat than a cheater team like Dynasty.  I am an honest player and always call myself out, and I can pretty much decipher that the only way cheating would arise is if you couldn't win beforehand.

DarkSideEchoes wrote: CdaCda, I feel sorry for you.

DarkSideEchoes wrote: It's people like you that I absolutely cannot stand.  Why play the game if you cheat?

DarkSideEchoes wrote: I've shot people like you, and nothing gets me more pissed.

DarkSideEchoes wrote: It's dangerous to ramp.  If you lit me up and I was bleeding because your gun was at like 390 or something, lord help you.  You suck.

How is it dangerous? Ramping is legal.

And why would I be shooting 390? The higher the velocity, the harder the bolt hits the ball. The harder the ball is hit, the more likly chance of it breakings (eyes or not.) And, i hate breaking balls.

Its come down to, adapt and survive, or quit. And I love the game too much to quit. Therefore, I must adapt.

cdacda13 wrote: DarkSideEchoes wrote: CdaCda, I feel sorry for you.   I care what you feel. DarkSideEchoes wrote: It's people like you that I absolutely cannot stand.  Why play the game if you cheat?  Because its become part of the game. Theres good days at my field, where I can play legal with kids. And other days, its needed. Its like, when everyone else is playing with 2 hands, why must I be the only one to play with one?(its an analogy) DarkSideEchoes wrote: I've shot people like you, and nothing gets me more pissed.  Join the club. DarkSideEchoes wrote: It's dangerous to ramp.  If you lit me up and I was bleeding because your gun was at like 390 or something, lord help you.  You suck. How is it dangerous? Ramping is legal. And why would I be shooting 390? The higher the velocity, the harder the bolt hits the ball. The harder the ball is hit, the more likly chance of it breakings (eyes or not.) And, i hate breaking balls. Its come down to, adapt and survive, or quit. And I love the game too much to quit. Therefore, I must adapt.

Ok thats better.  In the other posts in this thread it made you sound that like you were the biggest cheater ever.  However I haven't been pushed to the limit where I would even consider cheating

HITMAN187 wrote: That just shows you have no skill for paintball and that you are scared to play like a real man. One Shot at a time.

This post made me laugh.

Clark Kent wrote: HITMAN187 wrote: That just shows you have no skill for paintball and that you are scared to play like a real man. One Shot at a time. This post made me laugh.

the funny thing is ppl ramping are still doing it one shot at a time... just with less trigger pulls and at a faster rate

I agree that cheating is bad.  I get seriously annoyed with cheaters.

But if ramping/full auto is permitted by field rules, then it isn't cheating...

bluemunky42 wrote: hey, i never said I cheat. i said it happens. sure, i've wiped a few hits that were iffy, and maybe i've played a few hopper hits that i "didn't see", but other than that i'm an honest player. i hate to be a hipocrit, so i don't cheat unless i see someone who deserves to be bonus balled so badly its not even funny.

Translation - I never cheat except when I cheat.

HITMAN187 wrote: That just shows you have no skill for paintball and that you are scared to play like a real man. One Shot at a time.

agreed

You Wont See Me wrote: The problem is, with the new "cheater boards" the ramping is turned on by a rythm of pulling the trigger and then can be turned off by simply not pulling the trigger for like 2 seconds. Then the ramping is virtually undectectable because everytime a ref comes to check you you stop firing for like 2 seconds untill the ramping turns itself off. THen when he leaves you just turn it back on.

Ah, the Speedy's.

You Wont See Me wrote: The problem is, with the new "cheater boards" the ramping is turned on by a rythm of pulling the trigger and then can be turned off by simply not pulling the trigger for like 2 seconds. Then the ramping is virtually undectectable because everytime a ref comes to check you you stop firing for like 2 seconds untill the ramping turns itself off. THen when he leaves you just turn it back on.

This, to me, is the best possible argument why there shouldn't be any rules at all about firing modes.  It's basically an unenforceable rule.

A much easier way to control ROF (if in fact we want to do that) is to limit the amount of paint you can carry.  If going from 20bps to 12bps means you won't run out of paint, that will tend to limit your crazy shooting.

cdacda13 wrote: I cheat, get used to it. "Never foget, God hasn't finshed with me yet"

You cheat? Sounds like God has his work cut out trying to fix you.

tightness79 wrote: What does ramping do?

It is a program on the electronic control boards that allow scum bag players to increase rate of fire, ball velocity or both during play. The cheat mode starts up with certain trigger pull sequences or as rate of pull increases. The intension is to have a marker that works normally as a semi-auto in the chrono shack or when the ref checks you on the field.

Saw a chrono check on the field a couple of weeks ago where the ref told the player to fire three shots. The ref recorded  300, 400 then 500 fps in those three shots. The ref kicked him off the field. Should have banned him for life.

I have been hit by a ball going 500 fps on my calf through heavy weight Levis. The spot didn't bruise, it was turned to hamburger. The injury took 4 weeks to heal. 500 fps punched through an old pair of goggles on which I tested that velocity. I hope when cdacda13 finally injures someone seriously they bring criminal charges against him.

Even at 300 fps I can knock your goggles off your face with a 1.5 second burst at 30 bps.

This is only the second time I have every heard of "velocity ramping".  I can't speak to that.

But ROF ramping is fairly common, and is PERMITTED on many fields, as well as under current XPL rules.  So it is a bit of a generalization to use terms like "scum bag" and "cheat mode" when describing this technology.  Both the Tippmann E-Grip and E-Bolt have a Turbo (ramping) mode, for instance.

Clark Kent wrote: This is only the second time I have every heard of "velocity ramping".  I can't speak to that. But ROF ramping is fairly common, and is PERMITTED on many fields, as well as under current XPL rules.  So it is a bit of a generalization to use terms like "scum bag" and "cheat mode" when describing this technology.  Both the Tippmann E-Grip and E-Bolt have a Turbo (ramping) mode, for instance.

Yes, but those modes cannot be accessed during play. Just because controls are available it does not mean honorable people will use them. I run an E-Bolt but have never accessed burst or turbo mode even when testing the marker in my backyard. I play speedball every weekend. This is recreational and we are having problems with bps and velocity ramping. When caught, a rarity, the excuse is, "Hey, the pros do it!"

Some fields are making ramping legal because they cannot figure out how to police it. IT WAS NOT LEGAL UNTIL FIELDS FOUND THE "SEMI-AUTO ONLY" UNENFORCEABLE DUE TO CHEAT BOARDS...WHICH WERE A CONCERTED EFFORT TO GET AROUND THE RULES. These ramping modes are cheating and the scum bags who use them are still scum bags. Such cheating will drive me out of the sport and my son will not be allow to play for fear of serious life changing injury. I will lobby other parents to remove their kids from play due to the possibility of serious injury.

The only workable solution I see is to limit the amount of paint each player is allowed to have on the field for each game. I suggest a full hopper and one pod with a maximum of 400 balls in possession...no paint sharing and no deadman pod pick ups.

Again, check your local rules.  Where I usually play, we have guys playing full auto, ramping - I have my RT Mag bouncing wildly at 20+ bps.  None of us are cheating.

And that has been the rule since the dawn of time - it's a very old field.  This is not a new change.  Where I play, nobody is trying to "get around the rules" - the rules allow whatever we want to bring, so long as we stay under 275.  That's the way it has always been.

Nobody has gotten hurt yet (from getting shot with a paintball).  I occasionally host a true semi only game, but that is not from fear of injury, but because I don't want to freak out the 20+ rookies playing with Prolites.

I would suggest to you that there are thousands of people playing at fields that never had a "semi-only" rule, or play in their back yard, where they make up their own rules.  The semi only rule exists in some places, and only recently.  Judging all rampers by your local rules is not fair.

Clark Kent wrote: Again, check your local rules.  Where I usually play, we have guys playing full auto, ramping - I have my RT Mag bouncing wildly at 20+ bps.  None of us are cheating. And that has been the rule since the dawn of time - it's a very old field.  This is not a new change.  Where I play, nobody is trying to "get around the rules" - the rules allow whatever we want to bring, so long as we stay under 275.  That's the way it has always been. Nobody has gotten hurt yet (from getting shot with a paintball).  I occasionally host a true semi only game, but that is not from fear of injury, but because I don't want to freak out the 20+ rookies playing with Prolites. I would suggest to you that there are thousands of people playing at fields that never had a "semi-only" rule, or play in their back yard, where they make up their own rules.  The semi only rule exists in some places, and only recently.  Judging all rampers by your local rules is not fair.

Goggles are rated for 300 fps by the ASTM standards. Due to the normal turtle pace of regulating bodies they are taking a while to come up with standards to regulate bps even though there are reports of goggles being pushed off faces and lens being popped out of frames at high bps rates of fire. Due to the abuse of velocity ramping coming into play combined with unlimited ROF several insurance companies are re-evaluating their policies for field coverage. There are rumors that the leagues may have problems with tournament insurance coverage if no method is devised to curtail ROF above 17 bps and velocity ramping modes. My point is that ramping modes fosters cheating of fields that do not allow full auto or velocities above 300 fps. It appears that if players can cheat where ramping is not allowed they will/they do. If ramping ROF because you can is acceptable then it is hardly a stretch to velocity ramping with the next step being OK to wipe.

People who cheat with ramping ROF and velocity where it is not legal are scum bags...is that clear enough??? Ramping velocity will become the next "legalized" mode because the player can get away with it. I may be wrong, but from what I read none of the pro tournaments started out allowing full auto.

Cheaters!

Bruce A. Frank wrote: tightness79 wrote: What does ramping do? I have been hit by a ball going 500 fps on my calf through heavy weight Levis. The spot didn't bruise, it was turned to hamburger. The injury took 4 weeks to heal.

If i get hit with a 500 fps its not a game anymore and time to drop the gloves  

reclusivetorrid wrote: Brother, you get hit at 500 fps, your going' to the hospital. I think a .45 fires at something like 600 fps.

I have been a competitive pistol shooter for years. A Colt 45 fires a 230 grain bullet at about 860 fps. There are reduced velocity loads used for target competition, but none get quite down to 600 fps. If the paintball were heavier and did not disintegrate on impact, at 500 fps there would be deep penetration of the skin. It is all energy.

Everyone has heard the story, haven't they, of the woman killed by a paintball-like projectile  shot in the eye from a paintball marker?

Heh - my A-5 RT and RT Pro both shoot faster than most electros...

^^^^ Yeah baby!  R/T rocks!  I've been using mine for about a month and a half.... got it installed by Tippmann at Hell Survivor's Monster Game... came back for the second session on day one withou ttelling my buddies... I shot intentional semi until one of them asked me to lay down some cover fire... I let her rip right as he made his move to advance... what an awesome rapid fire cannon... he was so surprised he almost got hit turning to look at what was making all the racket... man my A5 is loud... I love it!  I'm either switching to HPA or adding a low pressure kit to help smooth it out a little... but I'm afraid it will quiet down my rig too much... we'll see.

Oh yeah, about ramping... blah blah blah... I've read all the post in this thread.. sounds like a lot of exagerating to me... shoot whatever way you want... shoot as much paint as you want... keep the FPS under 300, but no crying!

Bruce A. Frank wrote: Clark Kent wrote: Again, check your local rules.  Where I usually play, we have guys playing full auto, ramping - I have my RT Mag bouncing wildly at 20+ bps.  None of us are cheating. And that has been the rule since the dawn of time - it's a very old field.  This is not a new change.  Where I play, nobody is trying to "get around the rules" - the rules allow whatever we want to bring, so long as we stay under 275.  That's the way it has always been. Nobody has gotten hurt yet (from getting shot with a paintball).  I occasionally host a true semi only game, but that is not from fear of injury, but because I don't want to freak out the 20+ rookies playing with Prolites. I would suggest to you that there are thousands of people playing at fields that never had a "semi-only" rule, or play in their back yard, where they make up their own rules.  The semi only rule exists in some places, and only recently.  Judging all rampers by your local rules is not fair. Goggles are rated for 300 fps by the ASTM standards. Due to the normal turtle pace of regulating bodies they are taking a while to come up with standards to regulate bps even though there are reports of goggles being pushed off faces and lens being popped out of frames at high bps rates of fire. Due to the abuse of velocity ramping coming into play combined with unlimited ROF several insurance companies are re-evaluating their policies for field coverage. There are rumors that the leagues may have problems with tournament insurance coverage if no method is devised to curtail ROF above 17 bps and velocity ramping modes. My point is that ramping modes fosters cheating of fields that do not allow full auto or velocities above 300 fps. It appears that if players can cheat where ramping is not allowed they will/they do. If ramping ROF because you can is acceptable then it is hardly a stretch to velocity ramping with the next step being OK to wipe. People who cheat with ramping ROF and velocity where it is not legal are scum bags...is that clear enough??? Ramping velocity will become the next "legalized" mode because the player can get away with it. I may be wrong, but from what I read none of the pro tournaments started out allowing full auto.

No, they are rated for 500fps

I personally use semi auto, i like to aim b4 i shoot. However there are pusses out there who need to fire 200 rounds a second to hit there mark. The only time you should use full-auto is when your laying down supression fire.

TRC1040 wrote: Not exactly, are you going to say that the men in Iraq are guppies casue the M16 is full auto, in woods ball there is normaly like one person that is semi like a sniper, and most other people have the fast guns. That's how it works out for me most of the time.

The M-16 rifle used in Iraq is the M-16A2. The M-16A2 assault rifle is not full-auto. It has Safe, Semi, and 3 Burst. The M-16A1 assault rifle did have full-auto but it was removed because it ate too much ammo. Anyway, I do know what you mean but i couldn't let that go unchecked.

M-16A2s and M4s (Military issuse) have selector switches. You can select Safe, S, F and B. AR-15s are civilian version "M-16s" because they are ONLY semi.

Once the reg on my MiniMag wasnt working properly and with the velocity adjustment all the way in, it shot 445fps.

I <3 my RT, closest thing you can get to ramping mechanicaly.

Bruce A. Frank wrote: Goggles are rated for 300 fps by the ASTM standards. People who cheat with ramping ROF and velocity where it is not legal are scum bags...is that clear enough??? Ramping velocity will become the next "legalized" mode because the player can get away with it. I may be wrong, but from what I read none of the pro tournaments started out allowing full auto.

DarkSide wrote: No, they are rated for 500fps

Quote from Warpig article on ASTM regulation of Goggle specs.(ASTM standard F1776)

 "Additionally, paintball goggles are designed to protect against paintballs traveling at speeds up to 300 feet per second (realistically the ASTM standards involve testing them to far beyond this point to allow a significant margin of error, and overprotection, however, they are designed for use only with paintguns firing at or under 300 fps.)"

They are designed to virtually last forever with impacts of 300 FPS, Above that and there is increased risk of failure.

WARPIG is hardly the best source in the world, and I am not sure I agree with your reading anyway.

Not that this point is that important, but I think somebody needs to pony up the $39 to download ASTM F1776-01 (the current version of the standard)...

Somebody other than me, that is, since I don't particularly care.

:)

txhazard wrote: I personally use semi auto, i like to aim b4 i shoot. However there are pusses out there who need to fire 200 rounds a second to hit there mark. The only time you should use full-auto is when your laying down supression fire.

I do both... my best hope is for 17 BPS with my rig as it is... most likely I'm lucky to shoot 15 BPS... it is great for cover fire or strafing as someone runs from bunker to bunker... it is very best for dumping 50 rounds on some paint wiping cheater!

Xspyderman wrote: xspyderman, wouldn't you want the marker to be quiter? most people do. whatever floats your boat, i guess. There are advantages to being quiet I suppose, but how effective are they really.  You do most of your shooting from 20-75' anyway.. neither being quiet or using camo really help that much.  I love seeing people... often newbies, but not always... jump out of their skin when my marker opens up.  I like it loud!!!

A new player may flinch at the sound of a loud marker, but the more experienced player lets the sound guide his moves...when to duck and when to shoot and move. A player may not be visible to me when he is shooting from another corner of his bunker at another player. But if his marker is loud, I know exactly where he is and plan my attack appropriately.

Some of the whisper quiet markers don't provide enough report to locate them when I cannot see them. Consequently, on occasion I get taken out by a player who's marker was more quiet than the background noise on the field...didn't know he was there until the splat caught me in the goggles.

 "Additionally, paintball goggles are designed to protect against paintballs traveling at speeds up to 300 feet per second (realistically the ASTM standards involve testing them to far beyond this point to allow a significant margin of error, and overprotection, however, they are designed for use only with paintguns firing at or under 300 fps.)"

They are designed to virtually last forever with impacts of 300 FPS, Above that and there is increased risk of failure.

Your mask manual says to replace the lens after one direct hit?!?!?!  Which mask is this?

My V-Force says to replace the lens annually...

Clark Kent wrote: Your mask manual says to replace the lens after one direct hit?!?!?!  Which mask is this? My V-Force says to replace the lens annually...

I believe my Profiler manual says "replace lens after you sustain a direct hit from under 10 feet."

[/QUOTE]
cheating doens't have to part of the tourney scene, or the woodball scene. 

set a good example and don't cheat, don't wipe, ever. its you aren't sure either call a paint check on yourself or call yourself out. this may seem a little odd to some of you, but its the right thing to do.[/QUOTE]

I'm wiping, unless its a direct hit and I have no doubt in my mind then its wiped ! And if and when I do cheat it isnt because I think someone else has cheated, its because I am not ready to go to the sidelines !

Bah. Fields should make you take the gun apart if it is suspected you're using a piece of cheap plastic-n-diodes... hell, I could probably field-strip my tippmann 98c in my sleep at this point!

But yah. Cheating's wrong, mmkay? If I ever see you wiping, holding down your trigger, or using any other illegal parafanalia, I'll light you up. Even if you're on my team, I'll give you something to remember me by. From Russia with Love.

Edit: What my bud said up there (KoF), cheating and other stuff can seriously hurt... I remember my... second day at the fields (First day I didn't get hit or hit anything.) I was the last person on my team (because everybody hit behind a beercan... this is airball if you guys don't know... the inflatables) and I was out of ammo. The ref asked me if I wanted to surrender, and before I could get a chance, I got hit a few times in the mask and side... I don't know what would have happened if the other guy had a board and 500 FPS... prolly wouldn't be posting here, and my mom would be campaigning against Paintball :p