Trust OS to turn every possible event into a tirade against "the left".

Bored now.

Predatorr wrote: new orleans is in shambles, it needs to be nuked

When was New Orleans NOT in shambles?

What do you suggest they do to the city, DBib? Let it rot? Throw away one of the US's most valuable ports? What about the areas around New Orleans that weren't destroyed, like the North Shore? Let neighborhoods that are in OK shape be left behind because the city is their lifeline?

If you guys want to make up strawmen to attacks, that is fine, I guess...

But simply put - under the laws of all 50 states, it would be MURDER if the police/National Guard (or anybody else) just started shooting looters on sight.  The ACLU has nothing to do with that.

It would be illegal for the government to suddenly declare such a policy.

Looters are criminals, yes, and should be arrested and tried in accordance with laws.  That's why we have the laws to begin with.

Martial Law is an interesting suggestion.  Given the constitutional history, probably not appropriate for this context, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

A reasonably good article on the basics of martial law can be found http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_mlaw.html - here .

EDIT - just read the bottom new paragraph in my linked article.  It claims that martial law already HAS been declared in New Orleans?

EDIT EDIT - Apparently my vaunted article overstated the case, according to http://civilliberty.about.com/b/a/198081.htm - this news article.  Hmm.

Erica lives!

How are you doing?!

Im suprised Old Soldier hasn't blamed the hurricane on Bill Clinton. Im sure its his fault some how.

If I lived in Louisiana, and everything I owned is now under water and ruined, I cant go to work, I have no food, I am desprate, You best belive I would get a gun and go get what I need.

To hell with civility and manners when your starving and your kids need diapers and food. Go get what you need untill somebody trys and helps you.

Hey, nice marmot!

oldsoldier wrote: Well so much for human nature. Proof of the human condition were a few will allways make the lives of those trying to survive a situation and rebuild difficult and dangerous. This is not Iraq, this is New Orleans, LA, after a major storm the looting, now shots fired at National Guardsmen and Police, car jackings, murder, assaults, along with criminal youthgangs running wild. So to be consistant our friends on the left must now demand a complete US pull out of New Orleans and let them build thier own future without US help. We can not endanger our Military and relief workers in this enviorment, nor can we violate the "rights" of those who are the predators. So if we pull out all Police, Military and Relief Agency personnel we can avoid senseless loss of American life, let the New Orleanians fend for themselves, safer that way for political agendas to be consistant. BTW: Where is all this Iraqi oil we went to war about, should be no problem losing the facilities on the Gulf coast with the inflow of all that "stolen" Iraqi oil.   Still waiting on all those tankers from Iraq to arrive....couple of years and so far.......

Your breath will be better if you get your head out of there. Like you said, "this isn't Iraq" but you tied to it twice. You think left want's soldiers out of Iraq so they must not want soldiers helping for a real noble cause at home also??? - Anyone can get on a soap box but who controls the majority of the Gvt now? You want to know why they aren't helping? - Racism and riots! The distribution network of oil is damaged and everyone is out filling their tanks so we have a shortage. Somehow you relate this to "stolen" Iraq oil? There is plenty of oil, the companies are profiting. Across seas they have been paying about $4.00/US gallon buying it by the liter! We have had very low prices for a long time! Our trade relationships with the Saudi's has deteriorated.

I want to see less ignorant political stabbing and more fact to start a thread like this because the casualties deserve better!

Frank Zappa wrote: lester98c wrote: martygraws going to suck this year. i wonder if they'll find a new city for it I think thats a strictly New Orleans thing.

There's a pretty big celebration in Mobile for Mardi Gras.

So I guess that New Orleans is another battle that Bush is doomed to lose. 

Badsmitty wrote: So I guess that New Orleans is another battle that Bush is doomed to lose.

He should have been on the ground the next day... He should be our "crisis management" president with his 9/11 experience. I feel like Bush is acting very weak to deal with this.

I expect things to start out slow and pick up soon with their efforts. It's a massive rescue. This is new and fresh for a lot of the people doing the operations, they should get better at it as a little time passes.

Hades wrote: I say we nuke them all to fix the problem... Heck it just the East Coast.

Away we go

oldsoldier wrote: Yes, lets blame one man, not all those who failed and or refused to heed the evacuation warnings, and now are on the poor poor pitifull me, I need assistance now kick. And those with the guns disrupting aid and civil authorities, all the young and able track stars running with thier looted booty, but screaming for aid because they have no food or water. Congress has the purse strings....not Bush

Saving this for posterity, for use during the next Democratic Presidency.

And, I wonder whether a search would show up any posts with OS blaming Clinton for anything...?

oldsoldier wrote: Or we could of had Kerry, who would wait till we got hit again to see if nature was serious in its assault against America. Yes, lets blame one man, not all those who failed and or refused to heed the evacuation warnings, and now are on the poor poor pitifull me, I need assistance now kick. And those with the guns disrupting aid and civil authorities, all the young and able track stars running with thier looted booty, but screaming for aid because they have no food or water. Congress has the purse strings....not Bush

Do you actually think that? Your insulting your own intelligence to make another off base political stab. With evacuation it is all about how much time you give those evacuated... how many where hit by the hurricane while sitting in their cars in bumper to bumper traffic on the evac route on the highway? Congress has the purse strings, who has the majority. Dealing with this is an executive action... executive branch... president should at least show his face earlier! Like every other one does in a disaster. Again you have no information and are doing injustice to the victims. I think your racist based off your track star comment and the people screaming for aid on TV are black. It's sad but they are going to have to kill some people to maintain control.

You missed my point. I will clarify for you. The evecuation needed more time - earlier warning. Your second sentance is just putting words in my mouth. Bush bashing? There are plenty of things I could bash... I am just pointing out my dissatisfaction with his evident lack of concern... it seems a day late and a dollar short. The riots are terrible no doubt. The news all shows the same, read these:

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/hurricane/katrina/blog_090105.html - http://www.npr.org/news/specials/hurricane/katrina/blog_0901 05.html

oldsoldier wrote: Sorry Clark...never blamed the man (Clinton)personally for anything, questioned intended policy decesions ie military cutbacks, socialized medicine to name a few, but know and understand that the President is limited in power and implication of policy by congress.

I just did a brief review of some of OS' old T&O posts, and I did not find any direct "Clinton did it" posts. 

Several references to Clinton bombing and invading Serbia, and Kosovo being the legacy of Clinton, and how Clinton promised the Bosnia intervention would end, but no direct "Clinton's fault" statements.

Numerous references to "the Dems" and "the left" "the liberals", and "activist judges", however.  You are right, OG - you don't blame the person, you blame the vaguely generalized masses. 

But I stand corrected.

Actually read an article... there is no spin, you are politicising an issue that doesn't need it. The way Fox displays the same info is just to not have it. Everything else you typed is common knowledge and unrelated to my gripe. I only bring up Bush because he is our current leader and responsible for the Gvt's action dealing with this situation. Don't allow to take responsabilty away from our leaders, that is core for their job. You bring up Kerry and the "left" right off the bat for empty reasons. Your abuse of politics in this thread is my gripe. Not your personal view on the chaos.

When everyone evacuates they are on their own and responsible for themselves... it is unorganised chaos with hasty checkpoints and crowded routes. A relief effort should be significantly more effective and better organised. I believe they are doing their best, but I think that at first the response was more reactionary then proactive and that costs lives.

Dazed wrote: Betterdays wrote: DBibeau855 wrote: Im curious, these people saw this huricane comming. I cant help but feel that with weather advances like we have now, where we can see a storm comming days in advance, its their own fault for not leaving town. Partially yes it is, but in this case many people were to poor to leave. They had no place to go and no money to get there anyway. He's right, over 40% of the residents in New Orleans alone(just inside the city proper, not counting outlying neighborhoods or those just outside of the citylimits signs) are below the poverty level. How many of those people do you think had cars, or enough cash to scrape up and buy a family's worth of the overpriced, very scarce, bus tickets the day or two before it hit? Let alone money for hotel rooms, food, or anything like that? .

Sorry for the lateness of this post. But Dazed, can't people actually get off their fat butts and walk? I could easily walk 10 or 20 miles out of the city in a few hours, let alone a few days.

Fat Stalin wrote: Sorry for the lateness of this post. But Dazed, can't people actually get off their fat butts and walk? I could easily walk 10 or 20 miles out of the city in a few hours, let alone a few days.

Can you do that while bringing your infant twins, your bratty 5-year-old who keeps running away, your blind grandmother with Alzheimers who keeps wandering off, and your brother who just broke his back in an accident?  And while carrying enough supplies for the whole gang?

Oh, absolutely - like somebody said, when you get a dozen hurricane warnings every year, you start to get jaded.  And some people are just idiots.

My point was simply that you cannot conclusively declare that only idiots remain.