Right to use force
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=141830
Printed Date: 04 February 2026 at 7:26pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Right to use force
Posted By: WGP guy
Subject: Right to use force
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 7:47pm
| When is it legal to shoot an intruder in your house? What will happen to you if you shoot and kill/injure an intruder when the police show up? Will you be arrested? |
Replies:
Posted By: Apu
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 7:49pm
|
Should I give 911 a heads up on you?
------------- I need a new Sig... |
Posted By: southernboy51
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 7:51pm
| its legal here to shoot them i live in South Carolina |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 7:51pm
No, I'm asking what would happen in the case of someone coming into my house, I've been wondering this for a while. |
Apu wrote:Posted By: TRAVELER
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 7:56pm
|
It depends on the state and the circumstances. If you live in NYC, DC,
or SF, you may face a charge of possessing a firearm, but are not
likely to be charged in the death of an intruder. Most states have what's called a "castle doctrine" which means that while you are in your home or place of work you are not required to retreat from an intruder. You never shoot to injure. Either there is a threat to your life or there isn't. If your house is broken into, and you are armed, make sure you tell the intruder so. 9 times in 10 he'll leave, if he doesn't and advances toward you, you aim for center mass and fire. ------------- For I will wander to and fro, I'll go where I no one do know, |
Posted By: blandpart2
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 8:33pm
|
Yeah, depending on state laws... If you feel that you are in danger, the intruder doesn't even necessarily have to be showing a firearm or take a step forward, if you feel you are in danger, you can shoot to kill. ------------- 
|
Posted By: bluemunky42
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 8:37pm
|
in MD, the laws are bs. if an intruder comes in armed, it doesn't matter whether you're armed or not, you have to back off. if he isn't armed, i think you can shoot/kill him if he attacks you. ------------- 
http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity - http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity |
Posted By: Fat Stalin
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 8:46pm
Was your point that you can shoot to kill if you feel danger anywhere? Or according to state laws?
If he is armed, you have the right to use force. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Homer J
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 8:51pm
| In a lot of states, if you use excessive force in self defense (ex., you shoot someone trying to mug you, and then unload the rest of the clip into them while they're on the ground), you can be charged with manslaughter. |
Posted By: whack-a-mole
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:01pm
|
We had a discussion about this awhile ago. If you shoot an intruder or hurt an intruder he better have the same weapon or better, otherwise you're screwed. Any other circumstance and he can sue you. ------------- NASA and the Americans spent millions of dollars and hundreds of hours to develop a pen that would write in space.....The Russians used a pencil. |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:16pm
|
Well, a guy was robbing a man's farm here and the man came out, told
him to leave and I beleive the robber attacked him or something of the
like. Anyhow, the farmer shot him and he died. The DA
pressed charges on the farmer.
------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Mehs
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:24pm
That is just crazy...wow. ------------- [IMG]http://i27.tinypic.com/1538fbc.jpg"> Squeeze Box ☣ |
Posted By: SuperXero
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:26pm
|
Here in Ontario, if an armed intruder enters your home, you are allowed to cut off their ear. If he is unarmed, then you are allowed to douse him in gasoline and set them aflame, or cut off one toe. 3 toes if they have a knife. ------------- Tenacious and Versatile |
Posted By: CHAOSS
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:55pm
|
Now we can pretty much shoot anyone in Florida if we feel threatened. Also did you know...around here if say 2 bad guys threaten you and in the process you kill one of them....then the other bad guy gets charged with his friends murder  ------------- 
|
Posted By: The Guy
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:59pm
|
If you shoot someone you WILL be arrested. However if it can be prvoen you acted in self defense, you should be released. ------------- http://www.anomationanodizing.com - My Site 
|
Posted By: Dye Playa
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:59pm
|
(not really like thte story but o well..) a german shepard came into our yard- huge male like at least 175lbs and very agressive came into our yard a lot. it chased my mom and my sister when they were outside and my mom cut her leg on a post running away(luckily the yard people were outside and helped her... they blew the leaf blower in the dog's face) and that wasnt the first time it came into our yard... it charged my dad one time so he grabbed a shovel (didnt hit it) until the owner came down. so he called the police and told them the story, how he told the neighboprs numerous times and blah blah blah and asked if he could shoot it if it cameonto our yard again. turn out no.. the dog has to be attacking or has attacked. so until it latches onto ur thoat and rips u limb from limb, no u cant do anything. but yea this forum made me think of that ------------- 
|
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 12:10am
|
Depends on state law. What Traveler was hinting at is that the law in ALL states generally require you to "retreat" if possible. I.e., if a mugger points a gun at you and can (somehow) escape by taking a step back, then you are NOT entitled to shoot the mugger - at least in theory. Most states, by their "castle" doctrines, do not require you to retreat OUT OF your home, but in most states you may have to retreat further into your home - i.e., if you can escape into a safe room, you have to do so. The extent of this duty to retreat within your own home varies quite a bit. The extreme is Texas, which basically does not require any retreat at all on your own property - you can practically shoot the trick-or-treaters dead and be ok (slight exaggeration). Most states have some degree of duty to retreat even in your own home, however, but very few states will require to acually flee your home. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 12:19am
By retreat you mean get to a safer place right? So like get in a room that is most secure (locks and stuff). If they come into that room then you are allowed to shoot? |
Posted By: ultimatetrooper
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 12:20am
|
I live in Texas. I'll cap anyone who steps foot into my house. ------------- 
|
Posted By: ConfusedPainter
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 12:43am
|
I'll have to remember not to try to sneak into your house and steal your Klondike bars
|
Posted By: leddend34
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 1:15am
| Well i say if any intruder step's one foot into ur house you should be able to shoot him an unload on his body tell you get board. |
Posted By: Shub
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 2:12am
Hey, man...that kid was wearing a HOCKEY MASK! How could you NOT feel threatened?? |
Posted By: billya5
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 2:58am
|
im stayin the heck away from your house at night. ------------- Right know im fondling my.... Angel G7 blue dust 2 piece custom products barrel halo B 68/4500 crossfire l/p tank |
Posted By: druidsdecendant
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 8:09am
|
Being a Correctional Officer in the Commonwealth of PA, I can say this... it depends on your State and Local laws. The best thing you can do is go to your local library and get a copy of your State's Consolidated Statutes. They spell out the law and punishment for violating that law. There is also sections regarding use of force permissible and in what situation. |
Posted By: WGP guy
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 8:19am
Well one of my parents is a retired cop, would the laws be looser for him? He is still allowed to carry his gun wherever he wants (on his hip) I'm pretty sure. |
Posted By: Fat Stalin
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 9:03am
Probbally not. He would be expected to know the laws. -------------
|
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 11:46am
|
Retreat means just that - retreat. Whether to someplace more safe of less safe - but almost by definition anyplace is safer than the place where you are being threatened... But this also interacts with plain old self-defense. If a guy points a gun at you, you can kill him in every state under most circumstances. The "retreat" concept has to be viewed together with self-defense rules.
------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 12:56pm
|
If someone comes into my house wanting my life or personal property, they are dead. Im not runnin a bloody swap meet or anything here. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
|
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 2:24pm
|
It would suck to spend life in prison because you shot a trespasser, though. Whether you like the rule or not. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Homer J
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:59pm
| Another question, in most states, would it be legal to subdue and detain an intruder until police arrive (i.e., strapping the intruder to a chair, locking in a room, etc.)? |
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 6:36pm
|
I believe so. Not quite certain, but I believe that would fall under the "citizen's arrest" category. You can also simply call it self-defense - if you let him go, he might hurt you... The problem comes up if you were wrong. Not usually a problem with a guy in your house, but if you tie up a guy on the street because you thought he was committing a crime (or worse yet, attack him), and it turns out he wasn't doing anything wrong, you could have a bigger problem. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: youm0nt
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 6:40pm
ask local police |
Posted By: Homer J
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 9:12pm
Yeah, it seems like there could easily be a thin line between citizen's arrest and vigilanteism. |
Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 9:18pm
In Kentucky, if you come into our homes, we can kill you, and we like it that way...
------------- 
|
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 9:40pm
|
Would it be possible to look this up online? I live in Massachusetts and I am curious about this now. Also. Ive heard of trials where house owners are sued by would be robbers because the would be robber was injured on the property s/he was to steal from. IE: Broken leg.
But, would state websites have more information on this or should we definatly go to a library? |
Posted By: sniperscout15
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 10:03pm
Do you even own a weapon? |
Posted By: Frank Zappa
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 11:00pm
What about keeping him strapped down for an extended period of time? Like 3 months? Or putting him into a 30 foot hole and forcing him to apply lotion 12 times a day. Is that alright? ------------- It's all a conspiracy. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Edgar+Cayce&btnG=Google+Search - Edgar Cayce >you |
Posted By: Sargent Duck
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 11:10pm
That reminds me of the scene from liar liar when the securitary is saying she had a freind who was sued becuase the would be robber fell on some knives lying on her counter. Now, Being up in Canada, we're not really allowed with guns. So lets say a robber breaks in, and I (in self defense) hit him with a baseball bat, or 9-iron, not killing him, but definetly leaving him the worse for wear. Hmmm, I wonder. Should check with the local police about that one..... ------------- Ref: I want a nice clean game player: but it's paintball! |
Posted By: Klaus
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 11:27pm
|
If anyone is stupid enough to break into my home, I will treat them as a guest, and kindly request if they prefer buck or slug, or possibly both. Call the cops, leave the phone on, and make self defensey noises... |
Posted By: TRAVELER
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 11:40pm
|
You can do a search of your state's laws regarding self defence and use
of deadly force through your state's official website. If you visit the
NRA's website, I believe they have a list of these regulations for all
states. The law was recently amended in Florida, and now retreat is no longer required. There are still minimum requirements though. Deadly force can only be used against an armed attacker, or multiple attackers. If there is more than one they don't have to be armed for you to use deadly force. Remember, when using deadly force there must be a real threat to your life, or to someone else's. If you see someone being robbed at gunpoint, or a couple people beating up on someone, then in most cases, the use of deadly force is acceptable. A few weeks ago a man attempted to murder his ex girlfriend as she was working at walmart. An armed customer with a concealed weapons permit (the third one issued in the state) witnessed the attack, drew his gun, and shot and killed the attacker. ------------- For I will wander to and fro, I'll go where I no one do know, |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 18 September 2005 at 12:00am
|
In Michigan the law states that you can only use the amount of force that the intruder has at that time. They have a knife, you can use a knife, they have a pencil, you use a pencil.
Then again, this coming from a state that ruled in favor of an intruder who slipped on a floor stealing a TV and sued the house owner.... ------------- 
|
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 18 September 2005 at 12:09am
|
Depends on what you want to know. The basic rule may or may not be in a statute, but even if it is in a statute, you would still have to research the caselaw to be absolutely sure. http://www.findlaw.com - www.findlaw.com is the best free online legal resource available, but for serious research you need either a law library or http://www.westlaw.com - www.westlaw.com or http://www.lexis.com - www.lexis.com . I don't think you want to spend the money for Westlaw or Lexis. The NRA may have information, but I would be a little careful with legal information taken from the NRA - they provide lots of good information, but they also like to confuse the law with their own wishful thinking. Talking to the local cops is a good idea - talking to the local DA is a better idea. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Funky
Date Posted: 18 September 2005 at 12:10am
|
hmm.. right to use "the force" ? ------------- 
"Don't you hate pants?" |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 18 September 2005 at 3:03am
Yes. I do. A couple rifles about 4 hand guns. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
|
Posted By: Seipher
Date Posted: 18 September 2005 at 5:53am
|
^^^holy mother of pearl man! -------------  in modern warfare, victory goes to the nutcase with the biggest explosions.
|
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 18 September 2005 at 6:12am
Pretty much the same, but we go by fingers, since they are more discouraged to steal then. |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 18 September 2005 at 11:49am
|
Canadians: Our self denfeselaws are legislated federally. If you find a copy of the Criminal Code, Section 34 deals with self defense, adn the next four or five sections deal with different permutations. If you are physically attacked, with no provocation, you can use REASONABLE FORCE to subdue the attack. Any force excessive to that needed to protect yourself is unlawful. If you reasonably fear for your life or 'grievous bodily harm', you can kill in self defense. Be careful with this- if you're armed, he'd better be, and give him a chance to retreat so you can tell the cops that. Your right to defend yourself also extends to your right to defend a third party. If you're walking down the street and see a guy in an alleyway savagely beating a woman, you have the right (and I think the moral duty) to intervene. Note- There is an annotation to section 34 of the code stating, "To avail himself of this defense [self defense] the accused is not necessarily required to retreat and certianly when he is in his own home he is not required to retreat and give up his home to his adversary. Also, if a person attempts to steal your property, his is deemed to have committed an 'assault' as under the previous law, and ytou may use REASONABLE force to get your property back and expel the tresspasser. So Canadian self defense law is pretty reasonable. Unfortunately, it's qutie hard to own guns here, so your primary means of defense in your own home is out the window... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: druidsdecendant
Date Posted: 18 September 2005 at 7:04pm
|
in PA...retreat means "the last safe haven inside the residence." A retired Police officer may not (necissarily) be treated any differently than "joe citizen." but...The DA may hold them to a higher standard, though. Citizen's arrest applies to anyone and restraining a person is lawful pending a PEACE OFFICER'S arrival is permitted. HOWEVER...if you are wrong and the person being restrained is "in the right", you can be arrested for "unlawful restraint." How long can a person be restrained before calling police?..."reasonable"...which is a subjective term which is normally considered to mean "as soon and humanly and safely as possible." Ammount of force to detain a suspect for arrest - typicly, "equal and opposite force or enough force to quell and maintain order" in the situation. In PA...a knife weilding suspect can't neccessarily be shot with a firearm...but you can spray, baton, taser him...using something with less lethal force can be used. A firearm should be a last resort. The biggest problem is vigilantism...people have lost faith in the criminal justice system and take the attitude of "pft...I'll do it myself." That's when they get in trouble. The only way to know for sure is to check you laws in your state and municipality. For instance...how many people know that only NJ law enforcement personnel may possess hollowpoints in NJ? Anyone else not exempt under the law will be fined $1,000 per bullet. So...have 15 in a mag and a spare 15 rounder?...$30,000 fine just for the bullets... Check out your state's laws and save yourself a bunch of headaches. |
Posted By: Ken Majors
Date Posted: 18 September 2005 at 7:21pm
|
A good friend of mine in North Carolina shot a guy who was robbing his house.
He and his wife came home late one Sunday evening and there were 2 thugs in his house. When the opened the door one of them ran out the back, the other was trying to load a shotgun. My friend double tapped him with his pistol that he carries legally. Killed him dead on the spot. The other clown got away. The shotgun was one of the weapons that they were trying to steal from my friend. Long story short... My friend went to jail for two days. It took that long to sort out all the statements, stories, and such. He was not charged. He did get a really nice write up in American Rifleman for his actions. The accomplice was never identified, although the police said they know who it was because they both had criminal records for similar crimes in the past. The funny part of this story was my friends wife called the police during this whole event and when the police showed up, the first cop on scene entered with his weapon drawn. He tripped over a potted plant on the porch and dropped his weapon. It skidded to a stop at her feet, she picked it up and handed it to him. He almost shat himself.
The worst part of the whole thing was tearing out the carpeting in the living room. The blood had soaked completely through the padding and into the plywood. We used Kilz primer to cover the stain so that the smell wouldn't come through over time. The cops left him there too long, they should have bagged him quicker to avoid the mess. Must have hit him in the liver with the first shot...that is the only thing that would have made him bleed so much. At least that was our theory, they never released that info. ------------- RLTW |