Ban CO2? Upgrade to HPA Now!
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Upgrades and Customizing
Forum Description: Trick it out!
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=142060
Printed Date: 21 November 2025 at 4:06pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Ban CO2? Upgrade to HPA Now!
Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Subject: Ban CO2? Upgrade to HPA Now!
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 12:07pm
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We do a lot of discussing regulators and expansion chambers here on the forum, all intended to get around the problems with CO2. It is fairly universally accepted that expansion chambers are good. Palmer Stabilizers are better, and a combination of both is the best way to get CO2 to behave reasonably well. Even with the Stabilizer the pressure, and thus the velocity, can spike dramatically with CO2. With the Stabilizer it is still possible to get liquid CO2 into the marker's valve. Thus allowing pressure spikes (though not nearly a significantly as without the Stabilizer). And everyone knows the problems with cold weather play and CO2. One field that I am aware of, TAG in Watsonville/Hollister CA, is virtually banning CO2 on their fields. No CO2 powered marker can be used that does not have a regulator. They really do not think that is completely adequate, for the reasons mentioned above. They offer to rent HPA cylinders to use on your marker for only $5 a day (plus another $10 for all-day-air). They have also discontinued filling CO2 at their facility and have converted all of their rental equipment to HPA. Is this the wave of the future? |
Replies:
Posted By: cv222005
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 1:20pm
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i think thats kinda wrong, i mean people spend money on their co2 tanks the same as they do for hp, but most of us who cannot afford hp have to suffer now? that also just makes the co2 tanks we have bought usless. ------------- 
98C R/T M4 foregrips W/sightpost 3POS-M4 STOCK REMOTE |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 1:57pm
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On the other side, however, people spent good money painting commercial buildings, homes, infrastructure, etc. with lead-based paint. Once this was a health hazrd, it was banned. CO2 can be a potential health hazard. I know a few people who were hit with spiked CO2 at a good distance, and they now have a scar from it. Imagine if the person using the spiked velocity (I believe it chrono'd at 350 fps) ran up to someone, asked him to surrender, and that person refused (that would probably be me). If that person tried to turn around and got shot in the face mask, the face mask wouldn't have held up and they'd be short an eye. Just because you spent money on a CO2 tank doesn't mean anything. I spent money on CO2 tanks, old guns, etc. but that doesn't mean I HAVE to keep using them. Things get old, times change. On the flipside, compressed air tanks can be dangerous too. Carbon fibers can tear, valves can be screwed with by unqualified people, etc. But, of course, the presence of an air tank is a normal safety concern we can't get rid of quite yet. Even the markers are big safety issues. Some risks are worth taking, some aren't. If we have the technology to prevent CO2 use and velocity spikes, why not use it?Steel compressed air tanks is what the usual rental HPA equipment are, and these are much safer than steel CO2 tanks. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 3:52pm
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Well, they haven't forbid the use of CO2 (yet!) just that there must be provision made to reduce the likelihood of spikes by using regulators designed to handle CO2. You can install a Palmer for around $75. You can buy light weight wrapped HPA tank off Ebay for $130-$150. Some of the steel HPA tanks on Ebay go for less than $100. So there are alternatives. I see this as little different than setting standards for goggles so that shop goggles and ski goggles were no longer acceptable. |
cv222005 wrote:Posted By: ^Pirate^
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 4:06pm
72/3k used is like $60-$80, not as cheap as non-reg CO2. I agree with the second part of that statement as well. ------------- 
It aint about black or white becuz we human I hope we see the light before it's ruined My ghetto gospel |
Posted By: whack-a-mole
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 4:37pm
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I think that's ridiculous. People have been using CO2 forever. I don't think it's fair to only accept one type of air, especially if both types have a downside that basically equal out. For me and lots of other people, CO2 is cheaper and easier to come by. Alot of the velocity problems and other problems associated with CO2 is either operator error or can be fixed with simple upgrades. Me personally, I've never had a problem with CO2 nor out of about the 40 people that I play with and their various markers have they had a problem. ------------- NASA and the Americans spent millions of dollars and hundreds of hours to develop a pen that would write in space.....The Russians used a pencil. |
Posted By: Sargent Duck
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 4:59pm
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I've been using CO2 for a couple of years now, but never really liked
it. Lot's of disadvantages, and no advantages when compared to air. I
currently have an anti-siphon and a Palmers to help me get rid of some
of those advantages. Then I picked up a used HPA tank. Now I'll never
look back to CO2. I don't think it should be banned. Banning is for something that's unsafe, and CO2 isn't really that dangerous (if looked after properly). However, I think your field is on the right track, STRONGLY encouraging the use of HPA. And really, $15/day isn't that much. ------------- Ref: I want a nice clean game player: but it's paintball! |
Posted By: tigman250
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 6:13pm
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add on a $10 playing fee and $50 for a case of paint then $10 for gun rental (if needed) and you have spent the better part of a hundred bucks!!! seems like too much for 1 day of fun now dosen't it? ------------- http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stickemup6of.jpg"> 
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Posted By: Roll Tide
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 6:22pm
$15 or a nasty bleeding welt on your neck that is extremely painful because CO2 can spike so badly? ------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules> 
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Posted By: Mehs
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 6:26pm
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One of the fields I play at bought a lot of 47/3000 Crossfire tanks, and they don't even bother using co2 anymore.
------------- [IMG]http://i27.tinypic.com/1538fbc.jpg"> Squeeze Box ☣ |
Posted By: Ken Majors
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 6:30pm
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So they are banning the use of the .68 Special?
Sad...it is a true classic. The corvair was "unsafe at any speed", yet they did not ban them from the roads. A few whiners get welts, so they ban C02. I think they should ban bullets so people can't shoot themselves. ------------- RLTW |
Posted By: cdacda13
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 6:33pm
Lenses are tested to an extreme FPS standard. The highest estimate I heard was about 450-500 FPS. I have been saying it since I bought my first HPA tank, CO2 sucks. |
Posted By: Roll Tide
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 10:23pm
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I've even read where they will shoot solid rubber balls at the mask at like 350 fps, maybe higher. I'm not sure which company does that... I'll be looking for it. ------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules>
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Posted By: TruePaintballer
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 11:19pm
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i believe its a good move...that no marker should be sold with CO2...it is very smart safety and performance wise ------------- http://www.freewebs.com/outlawspaintball/index.htm - Outlaws *Sponsors* http://www.abrika.ca - Abrika |
Posted By: KrimsonKamikaze
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 11:27pm
$15 and/or a nasty bleeding welt on your neck that is extremely painful because you were a retard and got shot from 3 feet away at 290 fps... |
Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 21 September 2005 at 1:57am
Actually, that's pretty cheap. At my home field, its $20 to play, and $100 per case of paint. So that's $120 to play, not including rental or fills. I think banning CO2 may be a bit extreme, but HPA is definately the future of paintball anyway. They are just speeding up the inevitable. ------------- 
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Date Posted: 21 September 2005 at 2:03am
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A little point of fact here. A paintball hitting exposed flesh at less than 300 fps may leave a shell cut but will not turn the spot into hamburger. From what I have read paintballs striking unprotected skin at 335+ fps will do serious damage to deep layers of skin and inject paint into the skin and tissues just below the skin. This may lead to infection. Even when no complications develop such wounds may take 6 to 8 weeks to heal. While using CO2 I did a series of tests holding the marker in positions that caused liquid CO2 to enter the power valve. (no expansion chamber and no Palmer yet) When the marker was held so only gas could enter the marker velocity was chrono'ed at 268-275 fps. Once the marker was pointed down and fired twice it was then placed on the chrono. First shot was 347 fps. Next shot was 355 fps. Velocity did not return to the original readings until the 5th shot. Again, the move yet is not to ban, but to make sure those using CO2 are using the accessories needed to provide more uniform velocities. |
Posted By: Sargent Duck
Date Posted: 21 September 2005 at 9:29am
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Besides, in the long run, air is cheaper. I've yet to see (or hear) of
any field that offers all day CO2 filling for $5 or $10. Using air,
you'll cover the cost of your tank in no time.
------------- Ref: I want a nice clean game player: but it's paintball! |
Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Date Posted: 21 September 2005 at 9:58am
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That could be debated also. I have my own CO2 fill station. It cost me $1.25 to fill a 20 oz bottle. The total cost of the fill station was around $100 including the cylinder. Three 20 oz bottles in my gear bag carried me through a full day of play. The set up to fill my HPA is $300. And it takes 5 to 7 fills to play the full day. My field will not allow me to fill my tank in the back of my car in the parking lot. I certainly could not afford to own 5 to 7 HPA cylinders to stash in my gear bag. All day air at my field is $10 a day whether HPA or CO2. But I never used all-day-air service when using CO2. Now I have no choice or alternative with with HPA. |
Posted By: Blaze SA
Date Posted: 21 September 2005 at 11:30am
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Guys for the price of putting X-chambers & regs etc on a few of
your markers just get one HPA tank ! No one that has HPA regrets it. +
co2 kills your markers & cant be used on higher end markers. Moral
of the story ... Co2 sucks the quicker you get off it the better. Just see the light !  ------------- My cocker is the best looking around... my gun too ! |
Posted By: Roll Tide
Date Posted: 21 September 2005 at 9:15pm
Ok, mr. pro. You've never been bunkered. Or maybe you've just never played. 290? Some fields chrono higher than that.
------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules>
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Posted By: Halo
Date Posted: 22 September 2005 at 3:52am
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I totally agree that CO2 sucks.
I wouldnt have a problem if they banned it, if the fields were like TAG and rented the tanks to those that didnt have them, for a cheap price like that. I use CO2 for now, until I can get the old bills paid down so I can buy a tank. But until then if my field rented them for $5 a day, I would be renting them everytime I went to play instead of using the CO2. ------------- Halo CDPaintbal.com One of the oldest running scenario fields in the southeast. |
Posted By: evil_fingers
Date Posted: 22 September 2005 at 5:46am
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All of you guys are saying that banning co2 is good and I'll have to disagree on that and not because, that I jus received my order of a PE 72/3000 for $80 in the mail the other day...but, do you think its fair to the manufacturers that make and sell Regulators, X-chambers and co2 tanks?
And it wouldnt be fair to the new players that are getting into the sport everyday of every year and not every new player or an experienced player planning to make a switch to HPA would be able to afford to get a used or new HPA tank for some time....so, in actuallity banning co2 would hurt the sport more than anyone would think. ------------- Do not steal....the government hates competition! 
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Posted By: PaintballkidEPS
Date Posted: 22 September 2005 at 6:12am
actually skirmish has the PMI 72Ci./3k PSI tanks for 72$ brand spankin new in box |
Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 22 September 2005 at 8:35am
Exactly. If I couldnt have gotten CO2 when I first started, I wouldnt be playing today. HPA tanks are just too expensive. You need the tank and a reg. If they do this for an almost entirly safe gas, whats going to happen when companies start using propane? |
Posted By: darthpredator
Date Posted: 23 September 2005 at 10:39am
| This is all nonsence. The only reason I can see for field owners to ban CO2, is that they take your $$$ for HPA rentals, just abusiness trick, just a steal of your money. |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 23 September 2005 at 10:53am
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If they do ban CO2, HPA tank prices will drop because there is not competition to not get HPA. They will never fully ban CO2 because of stock class. Without 12g there will be no stock class. ------------- 
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Posted By: ghillo
Date Posted: 23 September 2005 at 2:14pm
| actually if c02 is gone they could raise the prices because that was the only thing left.... |
Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 23 September 2005 at 3:21pm
This is just like back when they started to teach everyone how to read and write!! What about those poor scribes that were totally out of a job because they were no longer needed?? Or how about when they invented that damn gasoline engine and then all the steam engine manufacturers and mechanics had to switch over to manufacture and repair gasoline engines?? What a total bummer that was!! This is SO not fair!!  -------------
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: TIORMA
Date Posted: 23 September 2005 at 5:49pm
| You guys are all missing the main point. First, there wasn't a switch from steam to gas engines, both are still used, but one became predominant. Second, you are forgetting who made the gasoline engine predmoninant. It was the CONSUMER. If you don't like that a local field is banning C02, even if you use HPA, let them know. If you feel really strongly, go somewhere else AND let them know. They'll lose more money by losing a couple players than they can make by forcing HPA on the players. Rather than arguing which they (the fields) should choose, realize that it is YOU who get to choose, and act accordingly! That is both the responsibility and the privelege of being a consumer in the know! |
Posted By: ANARCHY_SCOUT
Date Posted: 23 September 2005 at 11:23pm
man i was about to say before reading yours the same thing, and what about all the sidearm pistols. ------------- Gamertag: Kataklysm999 
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Posted By: Halo
Date Posted: 24 September 2005 at 2:40am
See that's true. Not too many steam engines used to day. Unless you count allthe Nuclear ships and submarines. Those are technicly Steam powered. I know, it was off topic. I was just being stupid. ------------- Halo CDPaintbal.com One of the oldest running scenario fields in the southeast. |
Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 24 September 2005 at 12:22pm
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TIORMA, I was responding to evil_fingers post refering to all the poor people
that manufacture expansion chambers and CO2 tanks. Times change, companies must change with them... As far as my view on banning CO2, I've already commented on that in my original post. -------------
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: Sargent Duck
Date Posted: 24 September 2005 at 2:50pm
It's called supply and demand. If there is a demand for X-chambers and CO2 (Regulators are used for HPA, get it straight), then companies will see that there is a market for them, and fill the need, supplying the above items. If that item were to disapear, the companies would simply drop that particluar line. Do you really think Tippmann soley relies on selling their x-chamber? I don't think so. If CO2 were gone, they simply sell a Tippmann branded regulator. No biggie. Business adapt, and I don't think there is a single paintball business with all their eggs in the CO2 basket.
Don't you think Brass Eagle would drop their cheap CO2 tanks and instead make cheap HPA tanks? Again, there is a market for cheap tanks for starter players. Businesses would see that, and then fill that need with cheap HPA tanks. ------------- Ref: I want a nice clean game player: but it's paintball! |
Posted By: Saint
Date Posted: 24 September 2005 at 4:09pm
Personally, I'd take the nasty bleeding welt. ------------- 
First to play, last to stay. MN Militia. SETUP Tippmann C98 12" All American - Opsgear M4 Foregrip - M4 Mag Kit - Solid Stock |
Posted By: KrimsonKamikaze
Date Posted: 24 September 2005 at 5:18pm
OK, mr. n00b. I have been bunkered, probably a lot more than your n00bish self. You are probably too scared of getting hit by paintball so you compensate by "internet paintballing." I have never, seen a field that allows a significant amount over 290 fps. |
Posted By: tigman250
Date Posted: 25 September 2005 at 2:12pm
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what about thoes of us that don't always play at a "field"? if you want to play in the backyard with your buddies how can you afford 4-5 hpa tanks? you can't, but i shure as heck can afford 4-5 co2 tanks. i don't ever see them banning co2, it's been arround for too long and it works fine. i won't debate the fact that hpa is alot better than co2 but with a few precautions co2 is just as good. ------------- http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stickemup6of.jpg">
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Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 26 September 2005 at 1:55pm
So, by your logic... if you have been bunkered, at a distance of 3 feet or less, and the bunkerer was shooting around 290fps, this makes you a retard. This is exactly what you said in your previous post. -------------
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: workin man
Date Posted: 08 October 2005 at 6:37pm
what's the diffrents between co2 spike and some a##hole with a $1000 intimidators with a cheeter board cranking up the fps. past 300,going full auto spraying sobody with paint.
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Posted By: FyreFly
Date Posted: 09 October 2005 at 2:48am
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A CO2 spike, unlike a hot gun, is uncontrollable. -------------
System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
Posted By: pmann175
Date Posted: 09 October 2005 at 9:55am
| Ive got an A5 do i need to buy anything special to put a hp tank on it |
Posted By: Scotchbroth
Date Posted: 09 October 2005 at 11:40am
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No. ------------- 
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Posted By: dmp4892
Date Posted: 09 October 2005 at 11:55am
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Co2 sucks. ------------- 
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Posted By: A-5 Command
Date Posted: 09 October 2005 at 3:55pm
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If they were to ban co2 then lower the costs of HPA tanks sometime in the future, that would be so amazing. I dont think it will happen though. Not until the prices of HPA drop dramaticly, otherwise their would be a lot less paintballers in the world. HPA tanks to most people are just way too expensive. ------------- A-5 Flatline E-Grip Tapco T-6 stock JCS Duel Trigger JCS Universal BiPod Core Remote 88ci/4500psi Crossfire R-5 Hopper Apex Barrel Hot Shot red dot Lapco offset Spec Ops A5-A2 grip |