Christopher Columbus
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Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=142527
Printed Date: 17 September 2026 at 9:10pm
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Topic: Christopher Columbus
Posted By: cdacda13
Subject: Christopher Columbus
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:29pm
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Hero or Villian? What he did, was it good for the world, or bad? Im writing an essay on this and I need some input. Theres enough factual evidence to support either way, but I can't choose. And, it should make a nice dissussion. |
Replies:
Posted By: 98God
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:30pm
| I say hero. My backing is obvious. |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:31pm
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He is an evil white man because he found an island, pretended it was
something else (said he thought it was India, pssht, hes just a racist
white rebublucan) and then convinced a bunch of his pals to exterminate
the Indians.
------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:31pm
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He was a hero, he killed all the idians!!
I dont really know, i dont know all the facts, but, he was pretty gangster finding the south america stuff, cuba and haiti and all that. Thats pretty pimp, so i say hero i guess. I really dont care that he may or may not have hurt any idians or whatever. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
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Posted By: Geoduck
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:34pm
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He did help create the America we see today. But thank Henry the
Navigator for starting up the whole naval exploration thing. Imagine if
China was more like Europe and focused on exploring for material wealth
rather than to parade their power to other nations, they might have
sailed across the Pacific in their junks and "discovered" America that
way.
------------- Calling Bush dumb is like calling a headless man blind. 
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Posted By: Hitman
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:35pm
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In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. ------------- |
Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:36pm
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^^^not cool, man, not cool. i say hero because of his expedition. it paved the way for many other explorers for years to come. america would be a different place without him. i say villain because of his treatment of the natives which he mistakenly called "indians." if im not mistaken, they were a peaceful people who wanted to trade with christopher, but he managed to enslave them instead. so i guess it depends on how you look at it. ------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell" 
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Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:37pm
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Didnt you hear the lates Kanye West statement?"Columbus obviously hates tan people."
BRad ------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:38pm
 ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
deadeye007 wrote:Posted By: cdacda13
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:54pm
They were not peaceful. The caribos (sp) cut off the fingers and hands of prisoners of war. The Aztecs sacificed thier prisoners. The iriqous(sp) killed thier prisoners of war. Peaceful, Id say no. |
Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:54pm
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i dont think kanye is ever gonna live this one down... ------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: Fat Stalin
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:56pm
A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him. - Winston Churchill ------------- 
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Posted By: Geoduck
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 10:58pm
But I applaud those few native Central Americans who pours molten gold down the throats of some European captives because they had "gold fever". LOL, totally bad ass. ------------- Calling Bush dumb is like calling a headless man blind.
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Posted By: impulse!
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 11:29pm
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He died from syphalis (sp) that std. ------------- 
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Posted By: Geoduck
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 11:34pm
The STD that originated in North America. OH SNAP! ------------- Calling Bush dumb is like calling a headless man blind.
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 12:03am
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Why does it have to be hero or villain? Why the sharp dichotomy? Can't he be a little bit of both? Or neither? Most of all, perhaps, can't he be an explorer, a bold soul who went where (as far as he knew) no man had gone before. I disagree with the premise underlying the question. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Project Irene
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 12:08am
| WHOA! These Bats! Swooping and Diving! comeon, put the can down, dang it, posting under the influence HAHAHA |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 8:59am
white racist republican? thats a fair comment. so all white republicans are racist now? i didnt know my grandmother was racist. my neighbor was racist. my uncle was racist. my parents were racist. former teachers were racist. I could go on and on. |
Posted By: bluemunky42
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:51am
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I'm with Rambino on this one. He was a hero as well as a villain. My mom told me she read somewhere that if he had a problem with someone, he would just have them hanged, no questions asked. He sounds like an asshole, but then again he did bring European ways to America. ------------- 
http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity - http://www.freewebs.com/hazedinsanity |
Posted By: sporx
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:56am
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1492. Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
that's all i can remember. And how the hell can you sail a ocean blue??? ------------- 
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 10:05am
| I think Kristofer needs to retune his sarcasm detector. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 12:20pm
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I hold no glee for Columbus at all.
He didn't fine North America, Leif Ericson did in October 1000 AD. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mephistopheles
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 3:24pm
Everybody's a little bit racist.  ------------- http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=166647&PN=1"> 
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 3:43pm
| Everybody's a little racist? That's quite the generalization there. I would venture to guess that not quite everyone is, and it is those who are not racist that try to fight those who are apathetic to it's destructiveness. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 3:54pm
Nope. Everyone is racist, as far as a socialogist is concerned, when you view a person of a different culture or different skin, you compare them through the only lense you know. Your own. You compare them to yourself. Everyone is a little racist, elitest ect. ect. what-have-you. As far as a sociologist is concerned, his statement is true. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Mag-a-Man
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 6:30pm
| He was basically a pirate. |
Posted By: cdacda13
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 6:40pm
I also wish that was the case, but my history teacher that you should state your opinion as fact and always go to one side or the other, NEVER sit on the fence on an issue. |
Posted By: Mephistopheles
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:24pm
First, it's a song by Avenue Q. Notice the puppets with the picture. It's a musical. Second. Everybody is actually. Not saying to the extent of a Klans-man burning crosses. But everybody actually is at least a little racist. Denying that is denying natural human instinct/behavior. If there's a mugging on the news in the inner-city, to many the first thought before picture shows up is "it's a black guy." However if it was a serial killer on the news it's suddenly a "crazy white guy." Stereotypes aren't made from thin air, they do come from generlizations which tend to have actual foundation to them. Despite this era of people trying to be all happy and nice to one another, we are all at least a little bit racist. ------------- http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=166647&PN=1">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:29pm
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In that case I will state my opinion as fact: Your history teacher is an idiot and shouldn't be allowed near impressionable minds. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:29pm
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This is an incredibly bizarre statement... |
Posted By: cdacda13
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:31pm
No, Hes a really cool guy. He is the debate team coach, so I guess thats where he gets this from. |
Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:31pm
| Paid Holiday. I salute Christopher Columbus. If you don't like him, then you hate America and Jesus. |
Posted By: soonerdude05
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:37pm
They might not have been peaceful to one another but they were to the Europeans. If I'm not mistaken the Aztecs believed Cortez and his men were gods and they gave them pretty much whatever they wanted. Why would you kill someone who was worshipping you? So the indians for the most part didn't try to fight the Europeans they wanted to be peaceful. In almost every case the indians wanted to be peaceful but white men wanted to fight and kill them because they thought they were inferior. ------------- 
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:40pm
He may be cool, but he is still an idiot. History isn't a debate - it is an attempt to learn and understand the truth of the past. He may be a fine debate coach, but should not be allowed to teach history. Ever. |
Posted By: cdacda13
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 9:43pm
Do you really learn from the mistakes of the past? Or did you go out and do what other people did and told you not to do and end up making the same mistakes? History, to me, is about thinking and interpeting. It helps you do those things by analzing the past. |
Posted By: Roll Tide
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 11:41pm
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I take back what I said... any man who gets me a holiday is a hero. ------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules> 
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 11:55pm
True that... Acknowledging his genocide is just trying to be PC too.... -------------  |
Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 11:55pm
I believe the word is Ethnocentrism. That is when you compare other races to your own. I would say everyone is a little racist and a little ethnocentristic. BRad ------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 12:02am
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Its only natural to compare new things to what we know. That goes for foreign cultures societies and races. We are, by nature, ethnocentric A.K.A. racist, the firs thing we see, is a persons race, we automaticaly start sizing them up and evaluating them before they even open their mouth. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Mehs
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 12:04am
It's apart of Aztecs beleifs to sacrafice people, they beleived that everything will go to hell if they didn't, so it's peaceful of course. ------------- [IMG]http://i27.tinypic.com/1538fbc.jpg"> Squeeze Box ☣ |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 12:06am
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Well, the people being sacrificed didnt like it too much. If you thought you were going to be sacrificed by blood thirsty canadians, wouldnt you grab a rifle and go off choop? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 1:53am
Aye ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 2:13am
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I think the words racist and biased are being mixed up. ------------- 
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Posted By: skarshnik
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 1:57pm
| When christopher columbus discovered south america, this is where he landed. the native populatoin began to be exterminated not by musket fire but by diseases such as small pox and the like. the brits lived in such bad conditions back home that most had immunity to the diseases that the indians were immune to. This is why the extermanation didnt go back across the ocean. umm... gotta go to class. Ciao! |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 2:42pm
| Just assuming that everyone is racist only perpetuates the problem. No I do not believe everyone is, because people are individuals, they are free to feel and judge based on THEIR OWN ideals. Therefore, you do not speak for everyone. It's just lazy to assume that the entire world is, and in fact, is counterproductive. |
Posted By: the_blade
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 2:56pm
but the aztecs where honored to be sacrificed to the gods and cortez was believed to be quezequotal (definant sp?) as he aproached he fired off a cannon round and the aztecs where fearful of the day he would return because as there proficy went quezequatal set sail and would one day return. ------------- 95 base neon 3.0 cai, knifedged crankshaft 60 mill throttle body,14 crane cam crane springs/retainers eagle rods port matched/ polished intake p&p head shaved .015 phantom grip diff dohc exuast |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 6:05pm
Chris wasn't the first one to North America, like so many people proclaim. Leif Ericson was in 1000AD from Norway. -------------
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 8:36pm
| I didn't know you could discover a land that was already populated with many different native cultures. I guess I'm learning. |
Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 8:58pm
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I'd try to go off choop anyway! ------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: soonerdude05
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 9:17pm
Not always true. I don't look at someone's race as the first thing. In fact, I hardly ever notice it. Not to say that I don't notice if someone has darker or lighter skin than me etc. but that I don't even think about it. -------------
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 9:25pm
 Yes.. Its true. Subconsiously that is the first thing you notice, and you instantly begine to compare and contrast new things, with the things you know and find familiar. Its human nature. You compare new things with what you hold to be true.------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 9:40pm
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how does any of this relate to columbus? jus' askin' ------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: cdacda13
Date Posted: 01 October 2005 at 12:08am
The cortez story is really intersting. The Aztec thought he was a god because thier weapons (bows and arrows) didn't hurt the Spanish.(thanks to the armor) The muskets (which sucked at the time), the Aztecs thought to be thunder makers, and weapons of gods. And, Cortez had perfect timing. The Aztecs believe that the end of the world would come every 52 years, and that the gods would come to thier land and decide whether or not they were worthy enough to live. Cortez landed in the 52 year of this cycle. What luck. And, he had a spy. |
Posted By: Ejp414
Date Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:14am
. . . . You're not too sharp, are you? ------------- __________________ __________________ |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:16am
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/me shakes his head. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 01 October 2005 at 4:01am
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You merely repeated the bizarreness. If you are talking FIRST, then you should remember that people came to the Americas from Asia thousands of years ago. If you mean "first European" or "first person to the Americas from elsewhere AD", then yes - Eriksson was first (although there are some theories that island folk went to and from the Americas with some regularity). The more accurate statement would be that "Leif got there before Columbus" - but that is merely an historical curiosity, since Leif and his folks didn't stay long in Vinland, whereas Columbus' successors are still here... Moreover, to get picky - Leif Eriksson was arguably Icelandic rather than Norwegian. His father, Erik the Red, had been banished from Norway some time earlier, and Leif is generally considered to have set sail from Iceland or Greenland. |
Posted By: Mephistopheles
Date Posted: 02 October 2005 at 6:28pm
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First to sail a boat "across the pond" is what I interpreted that as. Since that was the entire issue with Columbus, nobody really went sailing very far from off shore. Until he said "I'm outta here" and went sailing into the deep blue.
Except the Vikings. They did it first. ------------- http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=166647&PN=1">
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 02 October 2005 at 9:20pm
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First Europeans, maybe - I think it is now settled that the Polynesians probably were crossing the Pacific centuries before the Vikings crossed the Atlantic. Proven, ironically, by a Norwegian. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 02 October 2005 at 9:32pm
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Correct Clark, many people do believe that the inhabitants in Austrailia and Indonesia did sail over from time to time. Again, bad typing on my behalf, Leif was the first recorded European over here. -------------
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 02 October 2005 at 9:55pm
I have never heard anything about Polynesians crossing the Pacific for North America. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 02 October 2005 at 10:03pm
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South America, not North America. Read about Thor Heyerdahl's Kon-Tiki expidition. Freaky stuff - brave people. |