Off the shelf A-5.

Milled - Drilled, Modified and Painted by a few good men.

Tried multiple barrels - preferred A-5 Flatline due to ruggedness and increase range, shots hit harder.

Polished and Teflon coated Bolt group (kept stock bolt group with some gasket mods). Smoother action, quicker trigger mech, less oil residue. Cleaner, stronger shots.

Custom air system to provide burst fire and single shot. (could not achieve controlled auto - always had problem with run-a-way mech).

Long and front heavy - ( at first thought this may be bad but help to maintain tight grouping on target as marker does not elevate with each shot )

Also - forward plastic grip taken from AK-47. Milled&Drilled to fit A-5 and allow new air system fittings.

Though about including a scope or better sights, realistically don’t need them.

Ben Tippmann paratrooper folding + adjustable stock?: (Great stock,  best choice, comfortable use when masked).

Note: tank not screwed in all the way.

7.9lbs empty. 30 inches long with compressed stock.

Great marker + solid and rugged system = increase durability, accuracy.

All it needs now is a bayonet-  

(can be used to butt stroke)

bravecoward wrote: the flatline doesn't make shots hit harder

 As a matter of fact, yes it does - expecially the way i've got it - it put a spin on the ball which does two things:

1. farther shots

2. harded shots.

Just like a baseball.

not my style i guess

Sureshot3091 wrote: Dead_George52 wrote: KillerOne wrote: bravecoward wrote: the flatline doesn't make shots hit harder    As a matter of fact, yes it does - expecially the way i've got it - it put a spin on the ball which does two things: 1. farther shots 2. harded shots. Just like a baseball. The only way a shot would hit harder would be if you increased the the velocity of the ball. Which in that case would NOT be good

Ok – I’m going try help you out - so dig this:

Thanks to the laws of Physics - When you put a backspin on a ball (just like the flatline does) the result is acceleration and distance; increasing the Maximum Effective Range of my A-5 and anyone else using a flatline.

If you can read thank a teacher - If you can read in English, thank a Marine.

1)
2) It only hits harder if you are shooting at illegal velocities

if (2) is the case, you really should play with anyone

lol ok, for real.  The flatline shoots FUTHER, NOT HARDER.  I'm no professor, but i do know that an A-5 does not shoot harder.  if this was the case, the flatline would not be legal at most fields.  Also, just because it shoots futher will not mean it will have enough force to break on someone.  Tippmann just said it will shoot futher, not harder.  they never guarenteed a paintball will break at that distance either.  THe flatlines are great, but they're only good for about 20-50 extra feet.  Any further and the result will most likely be a bounce. 

keep in mind, i am only speaking from experiance with this product.  If you have had different results, good for you......

procarbinefreak wrote: hahahahahahaha... hahahahahahahhahaha... no wonder you're gonna be a marine... cause you suck at high school physics...

You talk from ZERO intel.  First. I am a marine. Second. I have a BS. in physics.  

This is Fun.

Styro Folme wrote:  The flatline shoots FUTHER, NOT HARDER.  I'm no professor, but i do know that an A-5 does not shoot harder.   Tippmann just said it will shoot futher, not harder.   THe flatlines are great, but they're only good for about 20-50 extra feet.  keep in mind, i am only speaking from experiance with this product.  If you have had different results, good for you......

Ok - lets use some logic here Gents.  -

If the flatline shoots Further, then it would mean that somehow the energy behind it increased - right?  If there was an energy increase then that would mean the paintball would hit harder if you were standing within its Max. Effective Range.

Yes, it would.

One more thing - I have never engaged anyone on a paintball field more than 50 - 60 feet away. So a 20 to 50 foot increase is good news.

Ok - there's your problem. This isnt a matter of "the way I see it" - its a matter of fact.  The flatline puts a backspin on the ball - increasing its speed. Speed (FPS) being the main issue here, not PSI.

So - if you have a straight barrel vs the slope design of the flatline and both are shooting at the same PSI. The FPS is going to be higher on the flatline - use a chrono and see for yourself.

Higher FPS = harder hit. That means more "ouch" factor and we all like that.

 FPS = feet per. sec.

 PSI = air pressure.

procarbinefreak wrote: no the back spin does not increase the velocity... it creates lift... explain exactly how the spin on the ball makes the ball travel at a higher velocity.

OK - good, now you are looking stuff up - thats a great start. Spin influences a ball in a variety of ways – but to put it simply you have to take a look at the direction of the spin in relation to the axis of the ball to know how it will be influenced.

But you can’t dig that until you realize that the paintball is going to travel in a parabola – or an arch.

With or without a flatline.

The flatline gives it a backspin which does create lift – but its not going to be the type of lift like you would see influence a helicopter – ie.. the ball isn’t going to shoot straight up. Instead its going to influence the ball like a fixed wing craft such as a jet or a bi-plane. ie.. increasing the span or the range of the parabola its traveling. That lift is what allows the paintball to maintain its speed and trajectory where other barrels do not produce the lift.

Ie flatline shots harder and farther.

killerone: this is silly. if you are not yet a marine and are just unnatuarally obsessed, then that is weird... if your are actually a marine, then why waste your time? do you realise that you are arguing with 13-16 year old kids? im not well educated in physics, ballistics or what-have-you, so i wont offer an opinion. im just here to say: let it go. get back to rating.

i like your gun. it looks functional for woodsball, which is what i play. 8/10.

UV Halo wrote: KillerOne, You need to brush up on your physics, and your logic as well.  Here are some things to help you get started: Basic Formula: F=MV  Force equals Mass times Velocity.  Two paintballs of the same weight, moving at the same speed, will impact with the same amount of force.  Note: there is no variable for 'spin'. Gravity accelerates all objects downwards at a rate of 9.8m/s  So, if you dropped and fired a paintball from 4.9m up, they would both hit the ground at the same time, of 1 sec (not accounting for drag). Because of this, the range of an object is essentially a measure of how far horizontally it can go, before gravity pulls it to the ground.  It does not just fly horizontal, run outta juice, and then drop to the ground. When it comes to flatlines, the effect of the backspin is to generate lift.  This lifting force is in direct opposition to gravity.  Because the effect of gravity on the ball is reduced, the ball has more time to move horizontally before it hits the ground.  This is what gives the flatline it's range.  Note: Backspin does not reduce drag.  It slows the ball down as well as slowing the spin down.  This is why shots at the distant end of the flatline range tend to bounce more. Oh, and one more thing: If the flatline got more FPS for the same PSI, it would be labled as gas efficient, which the flatline certainly isn't.  Two weeks ago, I used a flatline, and a Stiffi Switch with the proper Bore size (.687), and Evil paint.  I had to use at least 50 more PSI with the flatline to keep the same velocity.  Why?  Because the flatline is loose.  Real loose.  So loose I have not seen a ball not roll right through the barrel, ever.  This is so that the ball interacts with first the bottom part of the barrel, and then the top part, giving it that spin.  The extra PSI goes around the ball, and contributes to the barrel being louder.  It also doesn't help that the barrel isn't ported either.  If you're experiencing otherwise, your other barrel is waaaay too tight for the paint your shooting. I suggest you experiment with the http://home.comcast.net/%7Edyrgcmn/pball/trajectory.html - Paintball Trajectory Calculator . It assumes that you are firing the marker with no elevation and and a velocity of 280fps. Here are the settings that will duplicate the flatline's setup: Everything at default except: Drag the spin slider to about 12,000 RPM.  This will give you a range of 157ft, as compared to 113ft with no spin.  You can even stop it at any point in it's time of flight and see the velocity.  At .551 seconds the 157ft shot is moving at 137ft/s, while the 113ft shot is moving at 139.7 seconds.

Yeah - I saw that web page that you copied all that info from and the guy's conclusions are weak especially compared to mainstream sites - try a .edu or a .gov site. 

One last thing and then i'm done.

 You are right the formula F=MV doesnt take spin into account; thats why its a flawed example. Spin certainly is an issue which is what we are talking about.

Flatline = spin.

Other Barrles = no spin.

----

So - my a-5 is heavy but I just play woodsball, i'm sure the other kinds are great - but for me, not choice. Apples and Oranges.  

KillerOne wrote: You talk from ZERO intel.  First. I am a marine. Second. I have a BS. in physics.   This is Fun.

A marine with a education, isn't that an oxymoron?

KillerOne, the flatline doesn't make the ball hit harder. Like everyone else has said, it just gives the ball a backspin to make it go further. Take it from me if anyone, im studying to become an Aerospace Engineer, I KNOW physics.

Abodame99 wrote: KillerOne wrote: You talk from ZERO intel.  First. I am a marine. Second. I have a BS. in physics.   This is Fun. A marine with a education, isn't that an oxymoron?  im studying to become an Aerospace Engineer, I KNOW physics.

The Tippmann Forum is a scholastic phenomenon – we have more experts than NASA.

Marines are encouraged to be a number of things besides effective killers – and when we are not killing – training – drinking – working out or womanizing we (marines) are pursuing some sort of education.  

Which makes us studs.

How 'bout my paintball gun?

UV Halo wrote: KillerOne, F=MV is not an example. It is a Law in science. Any idea what that means? For all your attempts to debunk of what is accepted by at the very least, the majority of people on this board as the truth, you have not offered one shred of any evidence nor, a reference to what you purport to be so. You argument carries about the same weight in science as creationism. If you read the physics calculator pages, the text describes in mathematical terms how a paintball will generally perform. It is general in that it does not attempt to account for minute things like temperature, seam orientation (or even their presence), nor the fact that paintballs are not perfect spheres. I have personally observed the effects described by the calculator and feel that it is a fairly accurate description of what happens. So now, put your money where your mouth is. In the Upgrades and Customizing section, describe exactly how spin gives a greater force to a paintball. I am not interested in seeing your empirical 'evidence', I want to see the equations that conclusively define this behavior. If you have a BS in physics, this should be something you can accomplish. Oh and by the way, a aircraft and a helicopter create lift the eact same way. Hence the military classifications "Fixed-Wing Aircraft, and Rotary-Wing Aircraft". Still not clear? Then include this in your post as well. As far as how your gun looks, 6/10. It looks like you painted the barrel with a deferent technique and color set than the rest of the gun. The end of the tank being white, looks a little ghetto but, the grip looks pretty good. Now for all you have mentioned about being in the marines, I have not seen anything from you that doesn't sound like a stereotype.

    We are on a Paintball Forum because I wanted to post a picture of my Toy – because we are on a Web site posting pictures of Toys we use simple language so that all can understand - you want me to get a calculator and spend the day proving that the flatline makes the ball hit harder and go farther. Come on man – it does thanks to back spin. What more? Have trouble sleeping?   http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/ - www.lerc.nasa.gov

    The fact that you want to preach to me about Military Classification is funny because you only play, talk and dream about what I do for a living.

Fix & Rotary wing produce lift and use it are the same – true. The way they produce lift and the way it affects each – not the same. Thus my point.

Still don’t believe that I’m a marine? - Did I steal your girlfriend? – Sound too much like a stereotype?

Well the legends are true – and it doesn’t matter if you think I’m a Marine or not – I’ll still fight for your freedom anyway.  

       Keep watching CNN reading your cereal box physics and tell me how the fruit loops taste - because thats as close as you will get.

Born Again Hard USMC. 

The backspin does not create acceleration... It doesnt not create lift... What it does is cut through the air.

Why do paintballs slow down? Air resistance. How can you reduce this? Backspin. What the spin does is allow the air to flow over the ball rather than nudge into it and slow it down quickly. Throw a ball with no spin into a pool, spin the ball as you throw it. Much less resistance. Same concept as rifling and a bullet except an inverted technique.

Think of a street as resistance. Ghost-ride a bike with a non-spinning back tire and see how far it goes. Then try it with a bike that has a normaly spinning tire. Same concept but on a more extreme scale. Say the non-spinning bike goes 10ft, while the spinning-25ft. At 5ft, will they hit as hard? ofcourse. The spinnng tire bike at 20ft will hit as hard as the non-spinning if it could make it that far.

Out of a normal paintball's range the Flatline will hit harder because normal paint cant make it that far. But within a normal paintball's range its the same, same muzzle velocity; just less resistance.

KillerOne wrote:      Marines are encouraged to be a number of things besides effective killers – and when we are not killing – training – drinking – working out or womanizing we (marines) are pursuing some sort of education.   Which makes us studs. How 'bout my paintball gun?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thats a good joke.

UV Halo is correct. The backspin on the ball causes a difference in air pressure on different sides of the ball thus generating lift to compensate for height loss due to gravity. Much like that of a fixed or rotary wing as KillerOne put it.

P.s KillerOne dont try to be smart if you have no idea what you are talking about.

UV HALO has sandenginyitus -

 So I went back and reviewed my previous posts – I retract the statement that the backspin causes acceleration - I was over zealous.

   However, I still maintain that a paintball fired from a flatline hits harder thanks to the backspin.

Lift allows paintball to travel further – because of this lift (backspin) a shot fired from a flatline will maintain its velocity better than a paintball fired from a regular barrel – so that when you are hit by one – it is a harder hit.

Both from on field observations and http://www.grc.nasa.gov/ - www.grc.nasa.gov .

   What do you think about that?

Since the flatline can beat standard barrle's range, it is partly true. If the ball from a stadard barrel cant make it to you while the flatline can hit you, which is going to hit harder? But if its within comparable range I dont see it true, although less resistance would mean longer sustained velocity. Interesting.

A shot fired from a flatline will not hit harder the added range is caused by lift (which only affects the ball verticly)Slowing the balls descent. The ball is subject to air resistance the same as any other paintball fired from a non flatline barrell. At normal range a shot will hit with the exact same force as one from any other barrel As The horizontal velocity is the exact same as any other barrel. If the flatline were to speed up the ball then it would hit the ground in the exact same time that a normal barrel would, Which it does not.

I think it is a bit bulky why not get a remote instead of strapping the tank to the gun, Then it would be pretty damn sweet.

It is bulky - but I like. I use to have a remote line, but with the tank in the front and fixed to the A-5 I don't have to worry about my line getting wrapped up on anything.

Experiance tells me simple is better - no line, no trouble.

choopie911 wrote: Yes, it's proven, flatline shots hit harder. Something like 15% if I remember correctly. That was one of the marketing gimmicks even.

Hmmm... Interesting.