Along the lines of a select fire 98.....  I would love it if they came out with a select fire R/T or E-Grip like on the Heckler & Koch assault rifles. That would be Hella Kool.

dbldeodorant989 wrote: this exactly why i thought this should be brought up. sure it is way to fast, but it can be modified. i garuntee you that someone will eventually figure out how to make it work. and for those who think full auto is **edited**, what about for woodsball? this can become an affordable way for upping your ROF.

true, everyone knows that (most) woodsballers...well....are cheap (such as myself) so this would be an affordable way for upping your ROF...but since woodsballers are so cheap, then y would they want to waste so much paint? (1000 paintballs for example is a lot more to a woodsballer than a speedballer....usually)

'full auto is for pansies who can't hack it on the field' -Wow. Stunning. Waht a staggeringly inane comment. I could turn your logic aorund and say 23bps is for pansies who are afraid that they can't shoot accurately. Honestly, I've come to expect better of you than this tripe, monk. Rather than relishing a technical challenge you instead insist on asinine comments like this. Mechanical full auto would simply help to bring low end mechanical markers into line with others in terms of ROF- nothing wrong with that. Full auto wouldn't be something I'd personally use much- but when I go around a corner in a building, be it with a paintball marker or my service rifle, I like having a high rate of fire available in case I run into a bad situation- like taht guy with the 21bps angel turning towards me to light me up.

To argue that full auto is useless is jsut dumb. There's no difference, in my mind, between full auto and ridiculously fast semiauto like we see in tournament play. The fact that they're capable of lightening a trigger that much and twitching their fingers that fast shouldn't mean they ought to have an implicit advantage against people who don't have $1200 dollar markers, or who can't practice obsessively. More than that, the option of making a mod like that to a mechanical marker is jsut interesting to anyone who likes fiddling with their gear.I'd take a custom modded 14bps automatic over a stock 23bps semi anyday, even if just for the satisfaction of knowing I made it and made it work.

hehe....cajones.......

Seems to me you're both ignoring the somewhat inconvenient fact of the video at the start of the thread thaty proves it works.

Full auto is no more dangerous than a 15 year old who knows how to walk a trigger. It's all about responsible use. I've seen complete idiots with semi autos, as well. As long as people just use short bursts, there's nothing wrong with automatic fire- it's no different from a semi shooting a rope of paint at insane ROF.

The 5 minute dremel mod I was referring to was the select fire, not the full auto portion of it- getting the ROF down would require new springs and a heavier bolt. Modding it so you could put a fire select switch in would only take a small hole through the receiver and a couple small metal parts that would be easy to make or improvise.

It's easy enough to be dangerous with paintball anyway.Considering the availability of electric full auto mods, a mechanical one wouldn't be any worse- and in fact would be more expensive, requiring a Qloader rather than just an egrip, which is available stock or in expensively for a lot of markers. When you get down to it, people are gonna be stupid regardless of what you put in their hands. Trying to limit what's available to reasonable players because of a handful of idiots is unreasonable.

at least walking the trigger takes some skill.  with full-auto, you just hold the trigger down.  it's like sitting down when you pee....  at least with a semi, you're doing something.

Styro Folme wrote: at least walking the trigger takes some skill.  with full-auto, you just hold the trigger down.  it's like sitting down when you pee....  at least with a semi, you're doing something.

Developing that one fast twitch ability isn't nearly as impressive as having a proper sense of tactics, and being able to hit a target easily with one or two aimed shots. Full auto gives the high rate of fire ability to thsoe who don't generally need to worry about it. I don't advocate spray 'n' pray at all. There are just limited times where a high rate of fire is desireable even to someone who's generally an accurate shot and doesn't otherwise invest in equipment that allows a high rate of fire. Lots of MilSimmers own Q-loaders anyway, so in some cases it's the best solution for them in terms of combining rate of fire and select fire abilities with the desireability of a purely mechanical setup.

OOOOR u could just aim the shot... and only have to fire like 2 or 3 times...

Enos Shenk wrote: brihard wrote: If anyone's got plausible ideas for slowing down the uncapped rate of fire, feel free to post 'em. Look up the patent for the Factory F/A.

i went to the u.s. patent office website and they said it wasn't found. what exactly is a Factory F/A???

Thats way to much work to mod it...I can do the same thing with a toothpick and a minute of my time; some of you may remeber this...

I don''t play stock class- often as not I find myself up against guys with speedball markers the ound like friggin' miniguns.

I'm certainly no cheater. Full auto would admittedly be a novellty, but like I said, I've been in situations where a burst would have been useful. Generally when I play at a recball field there are buildings and such, and the way I was taught to clear a building was to burst in spraying. Granted not all military wisdom is applicable to paintball, but I've found this aprticular bit to be. You never know what's around a corner, and if there's an enemy, you've gotta get them before they get you- taking a building is one of the ahrdest things to do when it's well defended, and firepower goes hand in hand with tactics in this case.

I wouldn't sit in a bush and spray at someone, I just use semi auto for suppression fire, but not and then a rate of fire equivalent to the speedballers can come in very useful.

the more i think about it, the more people don't like a challenge..... honestly though....i don't think a field could afford to have insurence if they allowed full-auto....come to think of it, no fields use full-auto....

Mack wrote: Heck, I'd like to see this worked out just because it is so technically challenging.  Even if it wasn't allowed on any field their would still be the satisfaction of having achieved something that others said couldn't be done.

EXACTLY

THANKYOU

• Earlier in this thread someone essentially stated that full-auto was cheating, but the same rate of fire with a electric on semi wasn't.
• In another thread a while back someone referred to using a Flatline barrel as cheating because of the range advantage it provides.
• I've heard people complain that people who use an electro-marker against others using mechanical markers are cheating.
• If you go back far enough all of the below were also considered cheating or unfair at one time.
• Using 200 round hoppers instead of 45-60 round hoppers.
• Using 45-60 round hoppers instead of 10-20 round "stick" feeders.
• Reloading with pods instead of 10 round tubes.
• Using electric hoppers instead of gravity fed hoppers.
• Using gravity fed hoppers instead of "rock-n-cock" systems.
• Using mechanical semi-automatic markers.
• Using pump markers with an auto-trigger.
• Using pump markers instead of more primative cocking systems like the Nel-spot bolt action or the Splatmaster system that required the protruding bolt be pushed back inside the marker before each shot.
• Using constant air when everyone else was using 12 grams.

Styro Folme wrote: ^^^dude, there is no way people where seriuous about most of those things being cheating.  Yes, they were serious.  I know because I was around for every one of the above mentioned innovations including when people with "rapid-firing" pump markers first started taking on those of us unfortunate enough to still be armed with Splatmasters. And yes, full-auto is cheating and semi with the same rof isn't.  That's not up to you to determine, that is decided by whoever is in charge of the field, or in the case of "outlaw" games, it is determined by the property owner, or through the consensus of the players.  Additionally, I know from experience that a player can just as easily get overshot by a semi-automatic electric "racegun" as they can by a full-auto of any type.  It usually has to do with the amount of paint that the person firing already had in the air when the first hit was called.  In cases where someone keeps firing after eliminating the opponent in question, that's just wrong, no matter what type of marker is being used to do it.  In those rare cases where a "surprise" occurs and someone fires in panic I have noticed that the speedball types with electric semis are just as prone to firing multiple shots as the folks with full-autos.  The only difference I've noticed here is that the full-autos tend to wander off target sooner during fright-firing.  full-auto is more dangerous and it also takes alot of fun out of the game on all sides.  How is it more dangerous, is this your opinion or can you back it up with actual facts?  A long rope of paint is still a long rope of paint no matter what kind of marker it came from. I find it interesting that you think full auto takes the fun out of the game.  Could that be because you don't like facing full auto fire.  Try changing your perspective for a minute; the newb renters with stock 98s probably don't think going up against Ions or E-Spyders is all that much fun either.  If you really want it to be fair, everyone should use the exact same marker. why do u think the NPPL, and every other non-idiot-ran field doesn't alow full-auto? While it is true that many places (and tournaments) don't allow full auto, I feel compelled to point out that the "professional" level of paintball seems to have a lot of trouble keeping people from using "cheat modes" hidden in the internal electronics of their markers which kind of invalidates your comparison. I consider anyone who uses such a mode (full auto, ramping, whatever) when it is not allowed, to be a cheater; however, if any of the above is allowed at a game site, then it is not cheating and anyone who doesn't feel they can handle that type of play should trade their marker for a pacifier and go play a nice safe game of checkers.

Edited Note:  As an example of my assertion in a previous post that almost every advancement in paintball technology has been considered unfair at one time or another consider the following quotes from pages 33-34 of Bill Barnes book Paintball! Strategies & Tactics which was first published in 1993:

• A rather controversial item on the paintball scene is the attachment, via a hose, of a tank of CO2 to your weapon.  Although I have a few reservations about this particular modification . . . it allows a player to fire without worrying about changing CO2 or running low during a firefight.
• Weapons with constant air are quite common, though many fields ban the use of "CA".  I prefer a more spartan approach and . . . rely on the use of stock weapons without constant air.  Playing without it develops more skill and finesse in your game.  And if you're interested in serious competition, it's not a good idea to become used to playing with constant air, because it's not allowed in many tournaments.

Note, I added the boldface for emphasis.  Do any of those items sound familiar?

Thank you, Mack- both excellent posts.

I consider myself disciplined and safe enough to be able to use full auto without being dangerous- note that I've not once advocated spray and pray- when I think full auto, it's ALWAYS short, controlledbursts- That's how I've been trained in real life, and that's how I'd play it on the field. I'm not the sort to mash a trigger in fear- and when I'm hit the first thing I do is aim my marker away. Your fear is not necessarily valid. Certainly it doesn't convince me that I ought not to try it. I still think that a full auto 15bps, for instance, would be more 'legit' than a super light trigger firing 24bps- say a super response trigger mod, or an electronic marker. As mack said, a rope of paint is a rope of paint.

Ucan do this with a new boarded halo...   i do it all the time and the field owners dont care cuz its a 98 for god sakes...   Also mine WAS interchangeble because i drilled a hole in the upper frame to slide the "auto pin"  in and out of the xtra smace in the sear.

Styro Folme wrote: Mack wrote: Styro Folme wrote: ^^^dude, there is no way people where seriuous about most of those things being cheating.  Yes, they were serious.  I know because I was around for every one of the above mentioned innovations including when people with "rapid-firing" pump markers first started taking on those of us unfortunate enough to still be armed with Splatmasters. I'm sorry, i thought you meant recently.  you failed to say when these things where considered cheating. It's okay, that's what I get for being old and not admitting to it. And yes, full-auto is cheating and semi with the same rof isn't.  That's not up to you to determine, that is decided by whoever is in charge of the field, or in the case of "outlaw" games, it is determined by the property owner, or through the consensus of the players.  Additionally, I know from experience that a player can just as easily get overshot by a semi-automatic electric "racegun" as they can by a full-auto of any type.  It usually has to do with the amount of paint that the person firing already had in the air when the first hit was called.  In cases where someone keeps firing after eliminating the opponent in question, that's just wrong, no matter what type of marker is being used to do it.  In those rare cases where a "surprise" occurs and someone fires in panic I have noticed that the speedball types with electric semis are just as prone to firing multiple shots as the folks with full-autos.  The only difference I've noticed here is that the full-autos tend to wander off target sooner during fright-firing. you are right, it isn't my decision.  but look, the fields don't allow it, what about that?   Actually, both of the fields I've played at up here (one outlaw, one a lot more organized) do allow it; however, the organized one strictly enforces overshooting rules.  Anyone who puts more than three breaks on someone else gets to walk off of the field with them.  full-auto is more dangerous and it also takes alot of fun out of the game on all sides.  How is it more dangerous, is this your opinion or can you back it up with actual facts?  A long rope of paint is still a long rope of paint no matter what kind of marker it came from. I find it interesting that you think full auto takes the fun out of the game.  Could that be because you don't like facing full auto fire.  Try changing your perspective for a minute; the newb renters with stock 98s probably don't think going up against Ions or E-Spyders is all that much fun either.  If you really want it to be fair, everyone should use the exact same marker. Think about this.  A guy bunkers another guy.  guy #2 panics and accedently holds down the trigger.  guy #1 gets overshot, gets mad, and now he wants to get even.  He punches guy #2.  This triggers a fistfight, an arrest, and more bad points for our sport.  I have seen fights in the deadbox before. NOT PRETTY. So what you're saying here is full-auto is dangerous because some people are to immature to control their temper.  In cases like that I believe the immature person should be barred from the field, not the marker. (This is another rule that our field enforces pretty strictly.)  This takes the fun out of the game for everyone.  I don't think anyone would actually "like" to face a full-auto.  in fact, that would just be weird to enjoy that kind of thing.  does this make me a coward to not want to go up against full-autos? no.  will i go up against full-autos? sure, as long as i am not insanely overshot.  about the newbs going against higher-end guns, most good fields will seperate the teams according to experiance and firepower.  This gives the newbs more confidence.  It would be boring if everyone had the same marker.  The second biggest aspect of the game is upgrading your equipment as you seem fit.  But the biggest aspect is playing by the rules and staying safe.  This is probably personal perspective here, but I'm sure a lot of people will agree with it.  I don't mind going against full-autos because I enjoy the challenge.  Of course, on various occasions, I have also chosen to face people armed with mech-semi's, raceguns, and full-autos with only a Stingray, a Tigershark pump, or a PT Extreme just for fun.  why do u think the NPPL, and every other non-idiot-ran field doesn't alow full-auto? While it is true that many places (and tournaments) don't allow full auto, I feel compelled to point out that the "professional" level of paintball seems to have a lot of trouble keeping people from using "cheat modes" hidden in the internal electronics of their markers which kind of invalidates your comparison. I consider anyone who uses such a mode (full auto, ramping, whatever) when it is not allowed, to be a cheater; however, if any of the above is allowed at a game site, then it is not cheating and anyone who doesn't feel they can handle that type of play should trade their marker for a pacifier and go play a nice safe game of checkers. Ramping is cheating.  The NPPL only uses semi-auto because full-auto is dangerous.  i do realize other tournements allow ramp, but these are capped at 15 bps. how are you going to keep a consistant cap on a mech full-auto?  The rate of fire isn't the issue in rec games, overshooting is.  If someone overshoots (generally defined as more than three breaks on an opponent) they're leaving the field no matter what marker they have.  If they do it a second time, then they're done for the day (with no refunds). Edited Note:  As an example of my assertion in a previous post that almost every advancement in paintball technology has been considered unfair at one time or another consider the following quotes from pages 33-34 of Bill Barnes book Paintball! Strategies & Tactics which was first published in 1993: A rather controversial item on the paintball scene is the attachment, via a hose, of a tank of CO2 to your weapon.  Although I have a few reservations about this particular modification . . . it allows a player to fire without worrying about changing CO2 or running low during a firefight. Weapons with constant air are quite common, though many fields ban the use of "CA".  I prefer a more spartan approach and . . . rely on the use of stock weapons without constant air.  Playing without it develops more skill and finesse in your game.  And if you're interested in serious competition, it's not a good idea to become used to playing with constant air, because it's not allowed in many tournaments. Note, I added the boldface for emphasis.  Do any of those items sound familiar? I repsect you, i respect this idea, and i respect your opinion.  if you have anymore questions/conserns please go ahead and ask and i will do my best to answer them.

P.S.  Hey, look at all the pretty colors!

paintballdave wrote:  i have not read all replys

That's why you look stupid now, because it's been done with both a Q-Loader, and apparently a Halo as well. There's video proof of the Q-Loader. If you arne't sufficiently interested to read the topic, don't waste our time with ill-informed input.

You do know that a Q-loader is only supposed to go to 16 pre-winds...

After I WAS my A-5, I will have a nice 30 bps in front of me...

My Shocker shoots faster than that on a regular basis...

I know my friend did something like this with his pro-carbine(GOD I love that gun, I used it in my first paintball game)  he claims that he got two nails, bent them and put them on his trigger or something, and that pushed on the sear or something  he claims it shot about 30 bps (Bad explanation, I know sorry about that)

Speaking of custom mods, I silenced my sear spring(The noise is annoing as hell when you have an RT) and put a ghetto silencer that worked great, I had to take it off to clean my barrell

redneck engineering kicks ass..........

iv actually gotten styro to go against me and my friend with only his PGP, i had an RT A-5 and my friend had a 98custom

"CHAPS?"-styro (lol good times...)

All I will say is that I drilled a hole by the sear and stuck a piece I designed for that purpose by the sear. Just think of the safety switch by the sear.

Ok, sure it shoots really really fast, but is there a hopper that could feed that fast    could the Cyclone even feed that fast???

dbldeodorant989 wrote: i found this and have seen my friends and other videos in action. im going to go do this mod to mine right now. enjoy.... http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=10542& - http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?act=ST&f= 20&t=10542&

Wow when you learn how to search message me please cause I've posted this all ready  http://tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=155805&KW=kman1898 - http://tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=155805& amp;KW=kman1898

well i started out by slowing the cyclic rate sown because a full auto gun with an impossibly fast rate of fire is useless.  i bought a spring from lowe's, its a large spring about 1 inch in diameter.  The pin that guides the drive spring in the a5 and the spring itself have to be taken out, they're useless and the spring is way to strong.  so you put the spring in cut it to about 3 1/4 inches and put it in(i dont know the exact length yet). i tried this and the spring fits inside like glove, all i need to do is derive a bulletproof selector system.  basically i got the idea down, its just goin to take a good amount of time to perfect it. i need more time to access a milling maching because the sytem i tried recently is not 100% reliable, though i did get the firing mode to change.  ill keep you guys updated when i make a little more progress.  oh and the selector has to do with that slider that trips the sear when pushed forward. its just the up and downward motion on the trigger i have to compensate for thats all.  tell me what you guys think.