I believe there’s some what sniping in woods ball. I think of sniping as moving in to a perfect angle in witch you can shoot other players. But I don’t think sitting in one spot the whole game with a 20in barrel and firing 2 shots is sniping. This is the one reason I dislike woods ball I hate having to go and find all these so called “snipers” because they find one spot and sit there the whole game not moving. Now I can understand if you move around to different spots and when you do find someone if you try to sneak up on them from a perfect angle and shoot them with one clean shot. I guess what I’m saying is that there is sniping in paintball but to a point.

Yes, thats what I mean. In paintball, there is a different kind of sniping. You stalk or flank and secretly take out a player. Thats considered sniping in paintball.

Please search. There are already thousands of topics on this subject that will show you that there are no snipers in paintball. Don't post any more until you've read at least 3 sniper topics. Thanks.

here comes the flaming

a buch of "snipers" will say theres such thing

Im gonna get flammed, but I think in mil-sim there definitly is, but not on like 5 v 5 or anything.  There has to be 2 massive "armys" and a large playing field to do anything of the type.

Dear,                                   

[ X] Clueless Newbie
[ ] Loser
[ ] AOLer
[ ] 12 year old
[ ] Troll
[ ] Pervert
[ ] Geek
[ X] Spammer
[ ] Wannabe
[ ] Haxxor
[ ] l337 d00d
[ ] Flamer
[] Whiner
[ ] Other: Retard, failure, moron, impotent fool.


You Are Being Flamed Because

[] You have created another ingenious idea
[ x] you have managed to push the limits of what the term  moron stands for by posting something you would be flamed for
[X ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You committed crimes against pork byproducts
[ ] You posted a 'YOU ALL SUCK' message
[] The search button is you friend
[ ] You don't know which forum to post in
[ ] You just plain suck
[ ] You posted false information
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[ ] You are not civilized enough to post in these forums
[ ] Yuo mispeled evry sengle wurd.
[ ] you have discriminated a product that you would be obviously  flamed for
[ ] repeated beating of a dead horse

In Punishment, You Must:


[ ]Apologize to everybody on this forum
[ ] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
[ ] Actually post something relevant
[] Read the FAQ
[ ] be slapped repeatedly
[ ] neuter your self to further prevent any form of a defective gene pool
[ X] Go stand in the middle of a Highway
[ ] Recite the Greek alphabet backwards
[ ] Take a bath in bleach
[ ] All of the above

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:

[X] since you are new we will let it slide this time
[ ] Get a life
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[ ] I pity your dog
[ ] Your IQ must be 7
[ ] Just leave with the last of your dignity
[] Your mom should be ashamed
[ X]Don’t waste our time
[ ] Go jump into some industrial equipment
[ ] All of the above

Sincerely,

Monty_Sniper

NO

depends if your talking about actual snipers, a sniper in the military is used to find targets, and gather intel on the opposing team, the only time a sniper should be shooting is for a high priority target, like a general (  we play by points and the general is worth the most). another thing is that snipers arent big on the battle they prefer to avoid big fire fights.

So you could say snipers exist, or you can say they dont exist, In the february 2006 edition of APG magazine , there is an article about being a sniper in paintball.

lol this thread is never going to end you started something buddy, again.

Yes, sniper is not the propper word to use for that style of playing, if your refering to the military definition, obviously. But then again if you think about it their would be no such thing as a rifleman or a machine gunner or an enginere in scenario paintball either. My point is people take these terms too seriously, its just a word they use to describe their playing style.

But i believe their is a position that people call a sniper just because they think that because they both wear ghillie suits and hide and wait for shots they are both snipers.

I prefer to call the position sharp shooter, just to not piss people off.

Knight of Fire wrote: Yea but Why beat around the bush? Granted as agrred, Due to velocity limits, the traditional thinking of sniper is gone. It is not possible to do that, no matter how much elevation, how well you match the paint to barrel, everything, Theres no way you can Shoot really far. That is why a paintball sniper role is more for mid range ambushes and wide stealth flanks.

• Traditional military style sniper's do not exist in paintball due to the aforementioned range limitations.
• If someone wears a ghillie suit and does the mid range ambushes and wide stealth flanking moves metioned above how does that make them different from anyone else who hides in the woods and ambushes and flanks?
• The answer is that it doesn't.
• Since they are no different from anyone else who uses basic tactics, there is no justification for any title other than paintball player (or rifleman, for those that take their mil-sim paintball seriously).
• They can call themselves a sniper if they like and it makes them feel special, but no one else is going to take them seriously (although a few other players might agree that they are indeed "special").
  
• However, even though I consider myself to be a card carrying member of the anti-sniper crowd, I'm a little less rabid in my beliefs.
• I acknowledge the possibility of paintball snipers existing under certain circumstances based on aspects in the playing styles I've noted anong woodsball opponents and team mates.
• If someone posesses and demonstrates the skills to use the terrain, the available cover, the characteristics of their specific marker and their shooting skills in a manner that regularly allows them to make eliminations with minimal firing (one shot one elimination is best, but this is not always possible with paintballs) and escape without having to fear return fire or the counter deployment of their opponents I will consider that individual to be a paintball sniper.
• Example:  Little Billy Ghillie sets up with his Flatline equipped A5 under a thick bush with branches that almost touch the ground.  He is on one side of a drywash with steep sides and is watching a trail on the other bank.  He observes the movements of the opposing team through this area and calls the information to his team captain via radio.  Then he sees the target he's been waiting for.  (It could be the opposing team captain or their best player, but in this case it's the guy with the full auto that's been pounding them with killer suppressive fire all day.)  Billy calls in their location then he takes careful aim, and since the range isn't all that great, manages to break his first shot on his target's arm.  The other's accompanying Billy's unfortunate target scramble for cover.  Billy decides to crawl backwards, keeping the bush between him and his opponents.  He knows he's done quite a bit to help his team already and doesn't want to blow it by getting eliminated.  His plan is to ghost the other team and keep his team informed as to their location until they can be eliminated.  Billy's earned the right to call himself a paintball sniper for the following reasons:
  
• He eliminated his target from a hidden location without being detected.
  
• If they do locate him (likely-Flatlines are loud) and return fire, he is not within their effective range.  He used the characteristics of his flatline barrel to fire under the intervening cover, while their return fire breaks harmlessly on the bushes as he leaves.
• If they spot him, he does not have to immediately fear that they will maneuver on him because he postioned himself in a manner that insures the terrain interferes with his selected opponents movements (the drywash).  This gives him time to depart safely.

haha flatlines arent that accurate, but i know what you mean, those are some good points. Again i think people are still using the word sniper in paintball too literly, and that in an attempt to say their is no such thing they have to turn to the military definition and relate it to paintball.

Its just the title to a playing style, jeez

90% of woodsballers, even the ones who work as a team, attack the enemy with fast moving flanking movements and in large firefights. Most people dont have the patience to set up repeated small stage ambushes and wait for the perfect shot. I think someone who masters these skills and developes the patience to do so in the aid of their team (defending in CTF) deserves the right to call themselves a paintball sniper. NOT a freaking marine corps sniper, a PAINTBALL sniper, or stealthy sharp shooter.

at d-day there are people who all they do is snipe.so iono i myself think that if you have a scope on your gun you are sitting in one place to long and will surely be shot.

is their a way to cheat the poles?

Because how the hell did over 4,000 people vote when this thread has been up for less than a week?

ok ppl, this is the new player forum, where we help new pballers W/ their questions and problems.  It's obvious that different ppl have different opinions about snipers in paintball, but lets calm down because if you think about it, you can't change other peoples opinions. So lets not argue about this. The majority of the ppl that were in this poll don't believe in snipers, but 941 ppl (unless someone voted more than once which is allowed in this poll) do believe in snipers. So since we can't change their mind lets forget about snipers.  When a new mamber makes a comment with the word "sniper" in it, just show them a link like this:  

http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=147377&PN=1 - http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=147 377&PN=1

The 2nd guideline at tippmann forum is to respect your fellow forum members  

  http://www.tippmann.com/forum/ - http://www.tippmann.com/forum/

so please do.

I agree^

And no way are ghillie suits useless in paintball man, i dont know who you have been plying with, but a player patient enough whearing a gillie suit is virtually invisable, i know the same is true with a lot of other camo too, but with a ghillie the player needs less natural cover around him or her to camouflage themselves, leaving them with a much more open shot.

Just like a marker, they would need to know how to use it to their best advantage, but they are far from useless. And have you ever heard of the action ghillie systems from spec ops? Doesn't get in your eyesight at all.

Great post btw, just disagree with that one statement you made.

Mack wrote: PaintballAlex wrote: Too much to read, Yes, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts/arguments that have been previously postulated. but yes there are snipers in woodsball. Spoken by a man who has obviously done his homework on this topic Take it from a scenario player on a scenario team, there is alot of use for snipers. Mostly ambush snipers. Hmm, "Ambush Snipers". . . I wonder how that differs from a normal stay-out-of-sight-and-surprise-your-opponents ambush? Go to specialopspaintball.com and read their outline of an ambush sniper, because they have it listed as a position, If it's on specialopspaintball.com it must be true! and have even modle'd guns for the part. No way specops would take this position just to sell their products.

U dont have to be a jerk,  i'm just stating an opinion, and said that specops has a nice detailed review about the sniper to anyone who wants to read it. So dont diss what i say newb! And the sniper on my team has literaly gone into the field against 10walk-on players and has won the game in under 20min. They do exist if u know how to use them.

And actually i was a sniper, but now play heavy riflemen on my "Sponsored" kick butt scenario team, so i would probably know more than u. So yeah i did my homework.

He won the game.... betcha it was by camping by a trail and waiting for his newbie foes to walk down the trail. Anyone could do that.

Heavy rifleman? Do you shoot 100 cal paint or what? Lay down 37 bps? Doubt it. And just because you proclaim yourself a certain position doesn't mean you know more than people who obviously do.

hybrid-sniper wrote: He won the game.... betcha it was by camping by a trail and waiting for his newbie foes to walk down the trail. Anyone could do that. Heavy rifleman? Do you shoot 100 cal paint or what? Lay down 37 bps? Doubt it. And just because you proclaim yourself a certain position doesn't mean you know more than people who obviously do.

SCENARIO team, i've been playing for years! Not 37bps thats for a hammer "different job", Here's what i do:

Broadsword Heavy Rifleman

The use of suppressive fire is one of the greatest advantages that an organized team has over walk-on players. The militaries of the world rely on suppressive fire to advance their squads and to put enemy heads down. Paintball can work exactly the same way.

The Heavy Rifleman unleashes a sustained rate of fire that freezes the opposition's battle line while lighter elements of his team maneuver for advantage. He's the perfect man for defending the flag or hammering on the opposition's base. With an enormous load of paint and a fully automatic paintgun, the Broadsword isn't the fastest-moving member of his squad.

But, when he gets into position, he provides a hefty base of fire that carves a path for his buddies who will be assaulting. Heavy Riflemen don't always score the most kills, but they are crucial to attacks on entrenched defenses – the same defenses that can cause a squad to bog down in a frustrating stalemate.

Most paintball games end in a ball-for-ball standoff, so it's amazing that more paintball teams don't employ bunker-busting Heavy Riflemen. If you want to be part of your team's solution to the standoff, grab a big bag of paint and join the corps of the Broadsword.

Tips for Heavy Riflemen

• You're being counted on to lay paint, so your gearkit will be heavy, including grenades and a ton of pods. You carry loads of paint (900 rounds or more,) and plenty of air to back it up.
  
  
• Low-profile and high-volume are best when it comes to choosing a Broadsword gun. You will spend a lot of time on your belly, hammering away at enemy positions. You want to present a VERY low profile when you're lying on the ground. With your air on-gun, you will sit high and you'll have to crane your neck to shoot. That's not a good thing. Consider buying a remote air system to get your paintgun down and your head tucked right into the nap of the earth.
  
  
• Your offensive position should usually be at the hairy edge of maximum paintball range. Give yourself advantages like a Tippmann Flatline barrel so that you extend your range and get your butt out of harm's way.
  
  
• Every time you get taken out, take a few minutes to figure out why. Pick apart the situation and determine what you did to get your butt blown off. Then, figure out what you can do in the same situation next time to stay alive. If you're having trouble figuring it out, go ask your Squad or Team Commander what he thinks you should've done differently.
  
  
• One hint: if you're getting eliminated more than half the time, you're probably too much in the fray. Let your lighter players make the bold moves while you back them up. You'll still be in the fight, but you shouldn't be at the point of the sword.
  
  
• Look for ways to increase your paint capacity. If you're shooting a Tippmann A-5, you might want to jump to a jumbo hopper.
  
  
• A good defensive player will rack up more kills than anyone else on the team. If your defense is set up right, you will have a two-to-one advantage or better. In other words, a player set in a strong defensive position can take out two guys or more for every time he gets eliminated. Elite defenders will commonly rack up twenty kills in a game. If the team's plan is good, then defense will see tons of action and will enjoy a very target-rich environment.
  
  

Field Tactics for Heavy Riflemen

• You have several main jobs: suppression fire, providing a base of fire for flankers and defense. You might as well know how to assault and flank, too, since you'll sometimes be called on to do stuff not necessarily in your "job description."
  
  

• When a teammate is preparing to make a bold move (maybe a rush or a leapfrog forward) they will need suppression fire to cover their advance. By laying paint heavily into a known or suspected enemy position, you put heads down to clear the way for your buddy's push.
  
  
• It rarely works to try to suppress more than one angle at a time. You can cover one small bunker or one window of a pillbox. If you agree to cover more, you will probably fail to fully suppress the opposition, and this can get your buddy taken out.
  
  
• When you suppress, give it all you've got. Time your fire to match the exact moment when your buddy will be making his move. As soon as he's under cover again, let up so you don't run out of paint.
  
  
• Watch your buddy's move carefully so that you can pull your stream of paint if he runs into it. Don't stop shooting, just raise your fire or angle it to one side.
  
  
• Full-auto is best for suppression fire. If your home field doesn't allow full-auto, try a Firestorm crank. The Firestorm is legal on most fields and it lays down enough paint to make anyone think twice about putting their head up.
  
  
• When you're setting up to provide suppression fire, you shouldn't be so far forward that you're a feasible target. You should be firing from the very edge of paintball range. It helps, if you do a lot of suppression fire, to carry a Flatline-equipped Tippmann A-5. The Flatline can out-range most paintball guns by twenty-percent or more. Though the Flatline isn't as accurate as most barrels, you don't need tight accuracy for suppression fire.
  
  

• A survival-style defense is constructed to hold the enemy off for as long as possible. This gives your assault force the maximum possible time to hit the enemy flag base, take the flag and back-door anyone who's hitting your defense. In a survival-style defense, you will keep back the MINIMUM number of defenders that you possibly can and still hold your flag for the entire game time (but just barely.) By keeping only the bare minimum, you free up as many men as possible to hit the opposition's flag. By strengthening the attack force, you speed the end of the game. If the game ends and you still have a big posse of defenders, then you probably held back too many.
  
  
• Fire on the enemy when they're at maximum range – this is especially effective when you're shooting a Tippmann Flatline. Making the enemy bunker up way, way out there will buy you more time. Keep them from advancing by popping away at them every time they look ready to move.
  
  
• If you have fortress-strong defenses around your flag, then begin and end your game in these bunkers. However, if the defenses around your flag are natural barricades and waist-high bunkers, then you should set a series of staged, fall-back positions. When using a staged defense, you set perimeters of defense where your defenders hit the approaching enemy, then slide back to the next, closer perimeter. By hitting them
  in mini-ambushes, you will slow their advance to a crawl.
  
  
• Don't forget to cover the back routes to your flag. A smart opponent will send attackers around to encircle your flag base from behind. If that happens, you're toast.
  
  
• When you shrink the perimeter, take special care to sneak or belly crawl back to the next position unseen by the attackers. Take a few shots, then slink away unseen. They will spend precious minutes trying to figure out if you're still where they saw you last.
  
  
• When your defensive line shrinks, be careful not to leave a teammate out where the attackers can flank him. It's best to shrink the defensive perimeter all at the same time so that everyone covers everybody else's flank. When you lose a player, that's a good time to shrink the perimeter and tighten everything up. Coordinate all of this with liberal use of radio communication.
  
  
• On most fields, your last-stand defensive position should be behind the flag (and up against the back boundary, if you can still cover the flag from there.)
  
  

Ambush-style Defense

• When the team plan is to reduce enemy numbers before launching the main assault, you must put up an ambush-style defense. The objective of the ambush-style "D" is to suck the enemy in where they can be methodically wiped out.
  
  
• A good ambush defense is more about where you leave gaps then it is about where you position your defense. If you leave one side completely open, for example, the enemy is likely to fill into that side.
  
  
• Since the main assault is waiting to reduce the enemy numbers before attacking, you should have a ton of extra players to place in ambush positions. Decide where your gaps will be and place your defenders in a wide "U" shape to encircle the op-force attack elements. Make sure the gap is wide enough for the entire attack squad to fit inside. Otherwise, they will make contact with the tops of your "U" too soon and simply bog down trading shots. Often during capture the flag games, the "U" shape will span the entire field – giving the attackers a huge gap to fill in.
  
  
• It's often a good idea to bury the legs of your ambush along the deep side boundaries of your half of the field or along natural boundaries. Then, when the attackers fill into the middle, your side players can collapse on them and gain target-rich, side-door angles.
  
  
• Ambush D is all about patience and holding your fire until they are in your trap. If you shoot too soon, they will bunker up way before wandering into the kill zone. Unlike a survival-style defense, you want to wait to shoot until you have lethal range.
  
  

Assaults

• When you execute an assault, you will be attacking a static (stationary) enemy position. Maybe you're assaulting a bunker or maybe you're assaulting the flag.
  In either case, you're moving hard on an entrenched position that has a defensive advantage.
  
  
• The biggest key to a successful assault is to put the enemy under fire from multiple angles at once. If you're attacking a defensive bunker from only one direction, then you're putting yourself at huge risk by assaulting. Your squad must hit that bunker from two or three sides, at least. You need to make life really, really stressful for the defenders before you go busting ass out there in the open.
  
  
• So, the main assault should come after several mini-assaults that buy you all kinds of angles around the defended position. Then, you can have players move in from all sides at precisely the same moment. The Commander will typically call the moment of assault over the radio when all the chess pieces are in place.
  
  
• Another key to a safe assault is suppressive fire. You can cover the most dangerous paths of assault, such as pillboxes, by assigning one or more of your squad to supply suppressive fire.
  
  
• Don't count on any ONE player to suppress any more than ONE angle. In other words, your suppression dude can cover one small bunker or one window of a pillbox. If you're taking fire from more angles than you have suppression men, then don't make the move. This also applies to enemy shooters who are across the field. When you move in, you have no way of knowing beforehand the angles you're giving enemy players. Make reasonably sure that you've limited the number of enemy players who have a shot at you before you charge in.
  
  
• One handy form of suppressive fire is the leapfrog. A two or three man team can trade off hammering a fixed position with suppressive fire while one guy runs past. As soon as the runner is five yards ahead of the suppressive fire guy, he drops and starts his own suppression fire thing while his buddy picks up and runs five yards past him. This routine keeps going – fire, run past, fire, run past – until cover is reached or the bunker is overrun. Leapfrogging is a great way to attack an enclosed pillbox.
  
  
• When you assault, don't forget to ask yourself what exposure you'll have once you've overrun your objective. Too often, an assault will take a flag base only to discover that there is an ambush waiting behind the flag. Clear all dangerous angles before going in.
  
  

Pushing Flanks

• Once your squad has the enemy position engaged and trading fire, the flanking elements are released to one
  or both sides. To flank, move cross-ways to the enemy and push a little up-field. The idea is to get angles from the side of the enemy shooters. When you begin to pummel them from the side, and your squad's hitting them from the front, you will have them in a cross fire and they will need to retreat or be eliminated.
  
  
• When flanking, stealth is key. Don't hesitate to belly crawl. Belly crawling is a great way to spook a shot without exposing yourself to danger. Also, nobody expects you to belly crawl in paintball, since paintballers are typically too lazy to get their cammies dirty.
  
  
• Beware of other elements of the enemy force. You may be flanking right into another piece of their ambush. If you do encounter more resistance, radio your Squad Leader and have him dispatch another Medium or Heavy Rifleman to
  set another base of fire in front of the extended force. Then, begin a new flanking move.
  
  
• Remember, if your guys and theirs' are trading fire, you
  can use the noise as cover. Also, you have the security of knowing that the shooters, at least, are totally focused on their little firefight. You can probably move freely without them noticing. (Just be sure to watch for another ambush!) Paintballers usually scoot to a firefight like moths to a flame. A fully engulfed firefight will draw attention and should give you a clear crawl into side-door position.
  
  

Ideal Attributes for Heavy Rifleman

• Laid back. The Heavy Rifleman will play careful 'ball. He likes to serve as a backstop for the team. Also, if he'll be playing defense, he will be the kind of guy who's proud to do a good job, even if some of the glory goes to the boys on assault.
  
  
• Any level of physical fitness. A defensive Heavy Rifleman can be hefty or fit. A Broadsword that runs with a squad will need to keep up, but he doesn't need to be a runner, by any means.
  
  
• Methodical. A Broadsword must love to throw paint. He likes to play consistently. Like a guy mowing his lawn, the Heavy Rifleman works through enemy attackers (all with a cherubic smile on his face.)
  
  
• Big-time Team Player. Playing defense and supplying suppressive fire prove that the Broadsword is willing to do his part for the team. If he's more of an aggressive, glory-hounding player, he'll prefer to play up-front.
  
  

Heavy Rifleman Skill Progression

Basic
Requires at least one paintball day playing Broadsword position.

Don't think he's a wussy just because he's hanging back a little. Hey, if you had to carry his load of paint, you'd be hanging back a little, too. It's the Broadsword's job to stay off the front line until he's called up for suppression.

Then, he lets loose a barrage of paint that puts the opposition on the ground. Heavy Rifleman is a defensive position, even when attacking. The idea is to tie up an
area and to inflict enough fear and confusion that your flanking or rushing elements can kick the hell out of the opposition.

At first, it'll be tempting to jump into the middle of any battle that breaks out. While the Broadsword can certainly hold his own in a gunfight, he's much better at breaking up gunfights by giving his teammates cover while they put on the sneaky moves. A beginner Heavy Rifleman can start by just adding to his paint load. Later on, he's going to want to get as close to full auto as his local field will allow.

So, welcome to the ranks of the Heavy Riflemen. Don't blame us if you get addicted to heavy doses of paint.


Senior
Requires at least six paintball days playing Broadsword position.

After playing Broadsword a spell, it's become clear to the team that this guy is the key to breaking gridlock. He can play static defense or roam the field with an assault team. In either case, he lays paint liberally wherever it's needed.

He may be racking up crazy numbers of kills on defense or he may be backing up an assault squad. Wherever he is on the field, he's learned that monstrous amounts of paint can yield killer results.

His gearkit's ballooning the better he becomes. His air tank is getting fatter and he's traded in his pod belt for a jumbo belt or a vest. He's getting sick of yelling for "ammo" so he's packing more and more of his own.

Muppets keep coming up to him asking, "Are you the guy who's shooting the MACHINE GUN?"


Master
Requires at least fifteen paintball days playing Broadsword position.

If he's a defense player, the Master Broadsword racks up double-digit kills almost every game. He burns through an insane amount of paint and air and he's even tried to sneak a scuba fill station back into the defensive bunkers.

If he's on an assault team, the Master Broadsword may get fewer kills, but the opposition still swallows their gum when they see him amble forward and rev up his big gun.

The Heavy Rifleman has gone Biggie Size on everything – his air, his vest, his paint pack, and his hopper. He's loaded for bear and he can sustain major suppressive fire for three or four full assaults.

The Master Broadsword looks so intimidating and so BIG on the field that muppets have quit coming up to him asking if he's the guy shooting the "MACHINE GUN."


Elite
Requires at least fifteen paintball days playing Broadsword position and a special commendation from Team Special Ops Paintball.

Great defensive players never get enough props. But, when the SpecOps guys saw this Heavy Rifleman getting down to business, it was obvious that he deserved to be recognized as an Elite MoFo.

The Elite Broadsword is a committed team player. He's not interested in personal glory over team victory. Rather, he's stoked to play support to an assault or even to play defense. (He also secretly knows that the dudes on defense get to spank more muppets than anyone else.)

Whether in the field or back on "D," the Elite Broadswordsman is one tough hombre – even if he has to beg for gas money after spending every dime on his voracious paint habit.

SPECOPS RULES^

-------------
http://www.freewebs.com/teamhashido">Team Hashido
http://imageshack.us">

You just couldn't resist calling him on the heavy weapons thing could ya, Mack?

This has been a pretty good discussion of sniper tactics so far, with reasonable exchanges and points.  Good job.

Let's try to keep it that way - I would hate for this to degenerate into name calling...

(No problem so far - just a pre-emptive warning) 

:)

Mack wrote: To simplify this, and get it all in one post, I combined the best stuff from the two previous posts. PaintballAlex wrote: Mack wrote: PaintballAlex wrote: Too much to read, Yes, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts/arguments that have been previously postulated. but yes there are snipers in woodsball. Spoken by a man who has obviously done his homework on this topic Take it from a scenario player on a scenario team, there is alot of use for snipers. Mostly ambush snipers. Hmm, "Ambush Snipers". . . I wonder how that differs from a normal stay-out-of-sight-and-surprise-your-opponents ambush? Go to specialopspaintball.com and read their outline of an ambush sniper, because they have it listed as a position, If it's on specialopspaintball.com it must be true! and have even modle'd guns for the part. No way specops would take this position just to sell their products. U dont have to be a jerk,  I was merely pointing out the obvious fallicies in your pro-sniper arguments, being a jerk was just a side benefit. i'm just stating an opinion, and said that specops has a nice detailed review about the sniper to anyone who wants to read it. And I'm stating a counter-opinion which includes the consideration that Spec Ops has a profit-related motive to get gullible people to think in certain ways that induces those people to buy Spec Ops products. So dont diss what i say newb! I hate it when an intelligent exchange of ideas gets reduced to a name calling match, I must have gone and hurt someone's widdle feelings.  I would be more intimidated if I hadn't checked the user profile to identify the poster as "Billy" then visited the team website and found this http://www.freewebs.com/teamhashido/Tiger%20Stripe%20Strait.jpg - picture which I attempted to include below also. And the sniper on my team has literaly gone into the field against 10walk-on players and has won the game in under 20min. They do exist if u know how to use them. And actually i was a sniper, but now play heavy riflemen on my "Sponsored" kick butt scenario team, so i would probably know more than u. So yeah i did my homework. hybrid-sniper handles this so well below that I will just leave it alone. PaintballAlex wrote: hybrid-sniper wrote: He won the game.... betcha it was by camping by a trail and waiting for his newbie foes to walk down the trail. Anyone could do that. Heavy rifleman? Do you shoot 100 cal paint or what? Lay down 37 bps? Doubt it. And just because you proclaim yourself a certain position doesn't mean you know more than people who obviously do. SCENARIO team, i've been playing for years! Playing for years?  Not!  Credibility is not established by the dispensing of inaccurate facts which are easily refuted by a visit to the team website and checking the team http://www.freewebs.com/teamhashido/teambio.htm - bio .  To be playing for years a certain 14 year old must have started very young.  Probably not, as I also happend to note the following statment on the teams home page "We started Team HaShido in late May of 2005, and have been practicing and showing up at games ever since!" at http://www.freewebs.com/teamhashido/index.htm - this location.  Not 37bps thats for a hammer "different job", Here's what i do: Broadsword Heavy Rifleman The use of suppressive . . . yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah.  (From this point on was just a huge cut and paste from the spec ops site so I cut it to save space.  As a side note, in my opinion, the poster's professed tactical knowedge would have been more credible if explained in the posters own words as opposed to cutting and pasting.) Hmmm, that was kind of fun . . . maybe I am a bit of a jerk.  Oh well, I can live with that.  (Please note that all arguments were supported with logic and evidence, and I avoided the use of profanity and name calling.)

Hey bud, yeah team hashido started in MAY, but i've been playing since i got my 98c when i was 8, and i'd continue this argument, but after talking on the specops forum, and some others, they simply stated what a bunch of a-holes are on this forum, so i really dont care, and maybe one day if u get the balls to come to a scenario game, i might get the chance to lite u up, and maybe hit u in the temple, and maybe u will........ well u know  

Sooo...   "Hashido" - The Way of the Hashish?  Stoner Scenario Team?

I would think that would interfere with the sniping, but whatever floats your boat...

Exentric wrote: Sooo...   "Hashido" - The Way of the Hashish?  Stoner Scenario Team? I would think that would interfere with the sniping, but whatever floats your boat...

Shido means blade "bushido" is way of the samuari, and the HA comes from Hazmat...... long story, but i'm certainly sure we wouldn't be sponsored by three companies if we sucked so i wouldn't imply it.... where are the mods/admins on this website, this should really be closed

Isn't "Bushido" the way of the warrior, where "bushi" is warrior, and "do" is way?  Blade/sword is "ken" - as in "kendo", the way of the sword.

Shido - I don't know what that is.  "Shi" might be 10, so "shido" might be the way of 10, but that doesn't sound right either.  I think you may have confused your Japanese...

Spec Ops "doesn't like us" because we (well, most of us) challenge their beliefs. We don't hate them for challenging ours.

Hmm. 

Wow. I don't even need to waste my time responding to the Special Ops kid. Great job Mack.

PB Alex, I don't see why a moderator would need to close this. So far you're the only one doing any name calling. Rambino even agreed that so far this thread has been pretty professional. I don't know what forum you go to that would shut down a thread like this.

As for Special Ops Paintball, ok, they make some cool milsim products, and some of the tactics they post probably have merrit. However, it seems like every other week they come up with some new position for people to play, which is usually some variation of a position in a military rifle squad with some stupid name tacked onto it. Then once they've done all of them, they start making up names for every little variance in play style and make a marker or marker acessory or two to go with it. Sometimes I think they just make a new product and make up some position around it just to get the product to sell.

I'm also glad to see you dove right into this thread spouting sniper arguements right from special ops which were deal with a few pages ago and proved to be absolutly nothing different from a normal ambush, or flanking. Way to go.

Case of paint in 3 minutes is ~667 bps.

And most speedballers use paint to "lane." We don't just spray willy-nilly like you woodsballers may think.

FYI, most of the people debating agaist snipers ARE woodsball players. I often play with a pump, or with a 45 round hopper on my 98c and carry about 80 rounds on me in tubes. If I have to use my pods to reload during a game, it probably means I've been in the game for several firefights, am giving a lot of supressive fire, or have been mowing down human wave attacks.

If you actually bothered to read this thread, you'd realize that the majority of us are not speedballers.

Also, do you mean 65-70 feet? That I would beleive. If you mean yards, I'm calling shens on that one. Most people who claim stuff like that have absolutly no sense of distance.

I'd have to say that for just about every paintball marker:

Maximum Effective Range for a point target: 30 meters

Maximum effective range on an area target: 40 meters

Maximum effective range of the marker itself: 50 meters

If anyone disagrees with this I'd love to hear why.

A lot of people here who debate agaist snipers on a regular basis, like oldsoldier, SR- Crewcheif have formal marksmanship training(as do I) and in the case of oldsoldier, sniper training. Most of the rest have at least considerable woodsball/scenario experiance. If you're going to argue, argue the tactics. If you're going to argue over the skills of the debators, you might want a more educated picture of who they are.

hybrid-sniper wrote: Case of paint in 3 minutes is ~667 bps.   And most speedballers use paint to "lane." We don't just spray willy-nilly like you woodsballers may think.

No, u guys lean from behind a bunker and unload on one spot, and then u charge up the field going to the flag, and someone unloads on ur back, and then they win. NO SKILL AT ALL.

For you long-range beleivers go here http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html - http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

Type in the weight of the paintball(49 grains, if you want optomistic go for 50 grains)

Muzzle velocity(figure 270-300 fps, whatever you crono at)

height of the sight above the line of the barrel. You'll have to measure this yourself if you have a dot sight. It's about an inch and a half for a 98c.

The ballistic coeffecient of the paintball. It's about 0.01, which absolutly sucks.

Enter your elevation and the temperature

Enter the distance you're sighted in for(where the point of impact is the same as the point of aim)

Enter in a crossbreeze if you want to see some funny stuff.

As someone who's fired high powered rifles out to 500 yards, I have an appreciation for how wind and drop effect a projectile. Just tinker around with the windspeed by a few miles per hour and see how much it effects the drift. I can't make a windcall that accurate. Also see the differance in trajectory for a distance of just a few yards. To be able to get one-shot kills at over 35 yards your range estimation and wind call would have to be perfect, not to mention your velocity consistancy and paint consistancy. Throw in a slope and see how much that effects it. Then take a look at the amount of drift, and the amount of adjustment you can get in a rifelscope or red dot. Cranked all the way over, you couldn't adjust for wind with a 10mph cross breeze at 60 yards, not to menion drop.

EDIT: Alex, how about try playing speedball before you trash it? It takes a lot more skill than you think, even a hardcore woodsballer like me will agree. It definatly takes communication and teamwork to say nothing of judgement and reading your opponent. As for the spray-n-pray, I see woodsballers go through more paint than your average recreational woodsballer.

PaintballAlex wrote: hybrid-sniper wrote: Case of paint in 3 minutes is ~667 bps.   And most speedballers use paint to "lane." We don't just spray willy-nilly like you woodsballers may think. No, u guys lean from behind a bunker and unload on one spot, and then u charge up the field going to the flag, and someone unloads on ur back, and then they win. NO SKILL AT ALL.

Aw, you're not agg. I retract my previous statement.

rednekk98 wrote: For you long-range beleivers go here http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html - http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html Type in the weight of the paintball(49 grains, if you want optomistic go for 50 grains) Muzzle velocity(figure 270-300 fps, whatever you crono at) height of the sight above the line of the barrel. You'll have to measure this yourself if you have a dot sight. It's about an inch and a half for a 98c. The ballistic coeffecient of the paintball. It's about 0.01, which absolutly sucks. Enter your elevation and the temperature Enter the distance you're sighted in for(where the point of impact is the same as the point of aim) Enter in a crossbreeze if you want to see some funny stuff. As someone who's fired high powered rifles out to 500 yards, I have an appreciation for how wind and drop effect a projectile. Just tinker around with the windspeed by a few miles per hour and see how much it effects the drift. I can't make a windcall that accurate. Also see the differance in trajectory for a distance of just a few yards. To be able to get one-shot kills at over 35 yards your range estimation and wind call would have to be perfect, not to mention your velocity consistancy and paint consistancy. Throw in a slope and see how much that effects it. Then take a look at the amount of drift, and the amount of adjustment you can get in a rifelscope or red dot. Cranked all the way over, you couldn't adjust for wind with a 10mph cross breeze at 60 yards, not to menion drop. EDIT: Alex, how about try playing speedball before you trash it? It takes a lot more skill than you think, even a hardcore woodsballer like me will agree. It definatly takes communication and teamwork to say nothing of judgement and reading your opponent. As for the spray-n-pray, I see woodsballers go through more paint than your average recreational woodsballer.

I was in a speedball tourdement before, and did excellent with woodsball gear......... speedball isn't hard, and is nothing like the thrill of woodsball

Speedball is very thrilling. I'm not sure what you were doing wrong...

rednekk98 wrote: I've also done fine with woodsball gear. But to counter that, I've seen people do fine in the woods with speedball gear, bright jersies and all. I'm not a huge speedball fan, but I can definatly respect it, especially the skills of professional teams. I wouldn't exactly say it isn't thrilling, just a different type of thrill than woodsball can be. Your statement was still an unfair generalization.

actually it was an opinion, which some ppl might think unfair, but i still stand by it

Well ive voted about 1243703284082304 times

really no flaming between speedballers and woodsballers about which is more fun again,

i mean we havent even reached the 10th page yet and this craps already starting, please try to avoid flaming.

its an ok discussion so far, let it ride out.