I got a 98c and i wanted to kno what parts in need or upgrades i need
to be a sniper(sumthing like one) with my 98c, i'm not in to all that
automatic stuff, or shooting like 20 balls at a time!!      
Scopes,sights,barrels,upgrades etc.

P.S.    I kno alot of u out there don't beleave in the whole "sniper" thing,   but i'm  not a person who likes to shoot a bunch a balls to get a hit,   i don't got money to buy balls all the time,  plus i like the whole scenario thing

mother of god.....THERE ARE NO SNIPERS  IN PAINTBALL,,,,

o yes and welcom to the forums...please take the time to search the word "sniper" and you will find out how we feel about snipers in paintball....how ever if you feel the need to be "cool" the go to opsgear.com and and they will hook you up if you must....

mother of god.....THERE ARE NO SNIPERS  IN PAINTBALL,,,,

THERE ARE NO SNIPERS IN PAINTBALL, you can make ur gun look like one, but there is no such thing as sniping, any gun can be a sniper, i think sniping in paintball is sitting in one spot and only shooting 50 rounds a game, unless you wanna ramp your velocity settings then maybe i'll consider u calling it sniping.

Pro_Sniper wrote: I got a 98c and i wanted to kno what parts in need or upgrades i need to be a sniper with my 98c!!      Scopes,sights,barrels,upgrades etc.

Regardless of the flaming your request has received I find there are opportunities for undetected single shot killers. Requisite is a flat shooting barrel like a Flatline or Apex. An HPA system with the excellent Palmer Stabilizer for shot to shot consistency. And a Red Dot sight or a 1X power scope (no magnification). And practice, practice, practice with the same paint week after week.

Zero the marker at 150 to 200 ft and work at hitting a 12" circle at that distance...first shot. This type of developed skill of taking one shot kills at distance is equally effective on the woodsball OR speedball field.

Don't broadcast your position with ropes of paint and pull back quickly after that killing shot. Don't even let the guy who was hit know from where the shot came. Even though the barrels are not quiet, if you pull back quickly it is difficult to identify the source of that unexpected shot. Resist looking out again too soon, particularly if no paint came your way. Then carefully and slowly peek out and establish your next target. If you weren't spotted, don't move from that position.

The real question is perhaps what exactly are you trying to achieve?  The word aside, what result are you looking for?

If you want extra range, buy a Flatline or an Apex.  If you want accurate, buy a quality straight barrel like a Bigshot or All American.  If you want "real"-looking, buy various cosmetic upgrades, like scopes, stocks, magazines, muzzle breaks, etc.  If you want quiet, buy a new gun.

It all depends on exactly what you want.

Guys, I have seen a "sniper" working in a scenario game from a second story of an old boarded up house. He was in the shadows inside the room well back from the window through which he was shooting. Over the period of an hour he took out over 20 of the opposing force...and was never detected. All of his shots were at 150 to 200 ft. Even with the rather loud report from his Flatline, the lack of any other clues to his location prevented anyone from effectively returning fire.

He was set up in a chair and resting his marker on a rolled up duffle on the table in front of him. It looked to me to be a classic "sniper" layout. He may not have been a Ed Kugler, but he was very effective.

Uberhamster wrote: Sniper's don't exist, don't listen to the noobs who think they are.

hey why dont u take that out of your signature i just didndt kno wat it was i do now and it is just old. i am new to the forum but not new to paintball and i kno wat i am talkin about on here so just take it off.

Stiffy2008 wrote: Uberhamster wrote: Sniper's don't exist, don't listen to the noobs who think they are. hey why dont u take that out of your signature i just didndt kno wat it was i do now and it is just old. i am new to the forum but not new to paintball and i kno wat i am talkin about on here so just take it off.

i was new to the fourm when i wrote that but not any more

fishsticks wrote: all you need to be a sniper in paintball is a nice comfy pillow, and possibly a blanket so you can take a nap. You're not doing your team any good sitting there waiting for something to happen, get off your butt and go shoot somebody.

you are psycic

you just summed it up for everybody

hope this wont turn into a thread like me and "sinper" were in a little "online" feud if they exist

he couldnt even spell "sniper"

My name actually fit me in that thread  "MeanMan"

what was i thinking making that name

my new one is better atleast this matches my names on other sites

[QUOTE=RED5MOKE] its not sitting in one spot they should be the front man by himself no back up recon.

Jesus Christ, you said he had no back up recon.... That's because in your post, he would be the recon himself if he is telling others where people are.  You are stupid..... Now

eldiablo_si wrote:

Are you unaware that there are prohibitions against profanity and vulgarity in these forums?

diedonimpact wrote: guys calm down. seriously with all you guys on your periods, this is making the forum a very unfun place. who cares if someone wants to be a sniper HIS CHOICE not yours. hell maybe hes even good at whatever he considers a sniper

i agree theres to many paintballer out there that act like pricks and comon stop using the word "noob" its offensive and it makes you sound kind of slow in the head.

ive been playing paintball for over 6 years and i run a paintball course (bushball/woodsball) and i have never felt the need to call someone a noob or newbie because i want them to have fun not feel out of place and just hange back and want to leave.

god dammit sorry for the rant.

for the acttual thread reply: Ive seen alot of people around here who when playing they'll disapear and only carry those lovelly 10 round tubes and they dont alway get a kill(s) but if there brave enough to go out there and play with 20 shots well heck id call them a paintball sniper!

now how many people did i p!ss off? 

as a matter of fact today i watched a video on The Ultimate Sniper. I am training to be a Navy SEAL, and in paintball u can complete most of the components needed to be a sniper, but it is imposible in paintball to engage a target beyond the point of returned fire(unless ur cheating). but in the words of the most famous sniper in the world, who was part of the marine sniper force in Vietnam, the three main components to being a sniper are 1.Marksmanship 2.feildcraft3.tactics

u can fairly have the marksmenship, feildcraft means using ur terrain to your advantage whether it is a ghille suit or finding an effective vantage point to spot and drop your target, which is almost acheivable in paintball, and tactics is very easy to use in paintball.

the fact of the matter is that you can "sniper" in paintball, but not to the expertese and skill of that of a REAL sniper take my advice

and thank you god snake for knowin what u know, and before hand on this post my friend wrote the thing about there not being a sniper in paintball so disachnowladge my previou post. thanx

rossy11223 wrote: Wow....you guys sure do know how to welcome a new member to the forum. I'm sure he'll be back...

anyone seen "sinper" since his thread

that thread was fun for me i was posting every other post

say im <poopy> wrong about what jack? oh nvr mnd i know what ur talkin bout, aight so i was typing at 3 in the morning give me a break. i was tired i can't spell anyways let alone at 3 in da morning

<game over man, game over>

<more useless poopiness>

Jesus Chirstmas i am sick of hearing this. THERE ARE SNIPERS. id say, barrel, bypod, sight, stock

Alright, I'm going to attempt to ignor the whole sniper thing and tell you how to save paint. I often play with a 45round hopper and 9oz tank so I can have a lightweight marker. If you want accuracy, I'd say get a LAPCO barrel of some type(or smart parts) a 45 round hopper for a small profile, some ten round ubes for extra ammo, a red dot sight, and a 7-12oz co2 tank with a butt plate. Possibly a red dot sight, maybe a palmer's stabilizer or N2 tank later on. buy good quality fresh paint and practice a lot. Learn when to shoot and when not to bother. You're not going to do much heavy suppression work with a setup like this, so shoot once in a while to keep em from moving and get closer and at a better angle so you can pop em out with a low ball usage.

As to snipers in paintball, it's possible to plink sombody out from hiding. I don't see how this differs from an ambush, but call it what you want. Read the thread in New Players, I think the subject was delt with well enough there.

For you turds claiming consistant 150'+ shots with standard non-backspin barrels, PM me if you want a link to a ballistics calculator and the appropriate data to plug in if you want to see how wind effects paint at that range and how severe the velocity loss and paintball drop is. Max effective range of a paintball gun on a point target is 30 yards, max on an area target, 35-40 yards, max effective range is 50 yards. If you disagree I'll post the link and information here so you can all try plugging it in and see how many FEET high you'll need to aim to make a 200 foot shot when you're zeroed in for 20-30 yards.

At least half the people here don't even know what a real sniper does, or what it takes to earn that title. Everyone that has flamed this kid for using the word sniper just lost nearly all respect I may have had for them. I honestly have done more then average research into this subject. Not just in the paintball sniper debate, but into snipers themselves. It really makes me sad when people argue about this and they have no idea what they are talking about. I'm not going to argue about it. I am going to answer this guys questions, if I even remember them after getting so frustrated at these silly arguments.

So you want to be a sniper, or something like one?(notice he said, "or something like one" Now don't you feel stupid for flaming him?)

I assume by that statement you will want to following things: Accuracy, durability, reliability, simplicity, compactness and ease of transport, range, quietness and concealment. Those are just a few of the things people will want in a paitnball gun designed for the "sniper" type. Now.. To get accuracy there are several suggestions I have to make. First is getting consistancy under control. This can be done in several ways. First, HPA. This will help a lot. Second, a reg. This will help the HPA be even more consistant. The reason you want a consistant pressure is because this will effect the volocity, or the speed at which the paintball is fired. If its fired faster or slower each shot it will effect how far it goes. If it shoots the same volocity every time it will shoot the same distance every time, which is basically one element of accuracy. Of course, it always needs to be at or less then 300 fps to be safe. Then of course we have the barrel. The quality of the barrel is important. Not the length or things like rifling. The quality and bore size of the barrel is what you want. I would suggest lengths between 10" and 14" just because I think those are good sizes. If you get up into the 20 inchers you will gradually start to degrade the efficientcy. The longer lengths wont help any, so you might as well just keep it shorter. The paint size to bore size match is important too. You don't want the paintball to be able to fall through, and you don't want it so tight that you can't blow it through.

I guess I'll move on now.. I will handle the next three, durability, simplicity and reliability, all in one. You have a Tippmann, its covered. Moving on to compactness. Tippmanns are long, so this may be a little more difficult then it would be with a different marker. A few ways to make it compact are obvious.. Reasonable sized barrel and remote should get it plenty small. Range wont be effected by much more then volocity. Of course you can't just increase volocity past 300 fps so everyone will be shooting about the same range. If you get the flatline it will increase range, but its not worth it in my opinion. Quietness can be handled in a few different ways. Tippmanns are just loud. Most blowbacks are. You can try to cover the bolt area up a bit be getting one of the bolt mods or just covering it with something. The barrel you choose will also effect how much noise you make when you shoot. Concealment is really up to you and how well you can hide. The marker can be covered with camo and stuff and it may help if you use it right. Just learn how to use it and your set. This is really up to you though. There isn't any mod you can get that will hide you. Your going to have to do that on your own. And thats all I'll talk about now. I hope it helped.

The History of Military Sniping, and how it relates to the Game of Paintball.

Ok. So I got bored, and I am sick and tried of this stupid sniper debate. I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas, and didn’t know what else to get so I picked up several books on Military Snipers. Here are my findings.

< -- Note: Due to a problem with my code, you have to Highlight my rifle comparison tables to see them. It’s a bother, but if someone knows how to fix it, PM me. -- >

First lets go over the basics of what a sniper is, and what a sniper is not.

“A sniper…is considered a specialist, whose prime function is to kill selected high value targets at long range using superior skill and armament. A sharpshooter, by contrast, is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert

Keep this in your mind as you read the rest of the article.

The American Revolution (1775-83)

Sniping first came onto the battlefield during the American Revolution. Standard infantry of this period were equipped with “Brown Bess” smoothbore muskets. The Continental Congress approves 10 independent companies, armed with long rifles. The men of these companies were the first snipers.

Comparison between the “Brown Bess” musket, and the Long Rifle.

“A soldiers musket, if not exceedingly ill bored (as many are), will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards: it may even at 100, but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, provided that the antagonist aims at him; as to firing at a man at 200 yards, with a common, musket, you might as well fire at the moon.” –British Major Hanger, on the “Brown Bess” musket

 In contrast, the American Long Rifle (as carried by the Irregular companies), was effective in ranges up to 300 yards, and headshots could be achieved at 200. At these ranges American Snipers picked-off high ranking British Officers. During the battle of Saratoga an American sniper brought down British General Simon Frasier from a range of 300 yards. Despite its advantages the long rifle had several disadvantages. Its slow reload time(2 shots a minute), and lack of bayonet fixture made it useful only as a skirmisher weapon, not for use as a standard infantry weapon.

As you can see from the table, the Rifle outranged the common muskets of the time by over 200 yards.

The War of Northern Aggression (American Civil War) (1861-65)

During the Civil War, the standard infantry rifles were the Enfield(for the south), and the Springfield(for the north). These were muzzleloading rifles with effective ranges up to 500 yards. The confederacy managed to acquire Witworth and Kerr rifles from Europe for their snipers. These rifles had an effective range of well over 1200 yards, and hits were reported at over 1500 yards.

Confederate Snipers were selected in a manner which has been used to select snipers in most present wars. The best men from each infantry regiment entered into shooting competitions. They were required to hit man-sized boards at 500 yards. The best shooters were given the prized Kerr and Witworth rifles. They then went through extensive training in the use of these rifles.

The snipers were warned never to get within 400 yards of the enemy, but to use their superior range, to keep the enemy at a safe distance.

World War I (1914-18)

US Snipers during World War I used modified, and accurized versions of  the standard service rifle the Springfield 1903, equipped with 2 to 4 power scopes. Snipers during the war mostly sniped from behind the MLR, the main trench line. These snipers were Infantrymen taken off the line, and equipped with scoped rifles. With their rifles they could pick the enemy off 3 or 4 trench lines back from the MLR. The marksmanship standard for infantry of the time was to be able to hit a standing man from around 100 yards. The snipers were trained to hit targets from over 500 yards.

World War II (1938-45)

World War II snipers were selected in different manners during the war. I will concentrate on the Marine Corps Snipers trained at Green’s Farm because the documentation of this school and its snipers is the best. There, snipers were instructed in 5 week courses in marksmanship, camouflage, and field craft. They were trained to approach a target using stealth and to eliminate the target from long distances. These snipers were required to hit a moving target at 500 yards, and to hit a stationary target at 1000. They were equipped much the same way as snipers in WWI  were. These snipers used accurized  versions of the M1903 Springfield service rifle, the A1 or A3 variants equipped with 2 or 4 power scopes. Marine Infantry qualified at 500 yards.

Korea (1950-53)

Korea, in the latter part of the war turned into a bogged down war of attrition, looking somewhat like the trench warfare of WWI. This, alongside Korea’s terrain of rolling hills combined to make it prime sniper territory. Sniping tactics in Korea did not change much from the tactics of WWII so I will not elaborate on them. The rifles also remained the same. Snipers in Korea were equipped with 1903A3 Variant Springfield’s, and National Match M1’s(which were used in competition shooting because they were more accurate than the standard M1) Equipped with 4 power scopes(the M1D model). The accuracy of the M1 was not as good as that of the Springfield, due to the need to offset the scope, and have major Eye Relief built-in to the rifle due to the Clip Feed of the M1. These M1’s still were able to reach ranges of 500 yards accurately. In Korea the use of the .50 caliber round for sniping was first seen. M2 Machine Guns mounted with a 10 power scope were able to reach ranges of 2800 yards effectively, Snipers also experimented with .55 Caliber Boy’s antitank rifles modified to take .50 caliber rounds, and mounted with scopes which had the same range as the M2, but was able to be carried by a man whereas the M2’s were limited to fixed positions.

Vietnam (1965-75)

Vietnam is the perfect example of how a sniper can be employed during combat. The restrictive ROE and vast open fields and rice paddy’s of Vietnam became prime sniper territory. The Marine Corps and the Army both Fielded Snipers. Army snipers were equipped with accurized versions of the M14 service rifle, accurate out to 700 yards. The Marine Corps fielded snipers equipped with Winchester Model 70 Hunting rifles firing the .30-06 cartridge, and later in the war snipers carried the M40, which fired the standard 7.62x51mm(.308) cartridge both of these rifles had an effective range of over 1000 yards. Also snipers used modified M2 .50 caliber machine guns, fitted with scopes. These were accurate to ranges out to 2500 yards. Normal infantry of the time fired the M16 Assault Rifle, and the enemy fired the AK-47 assault rifle. These rifles were designed for infantry combat which takes place in ranges of only around 200 yards, and can only be fired accurately up to 500 yards. Thus snipers were able to operate with impunity from beyond the range of effective return fire of the enemy.

Now through all these wars several things have remained in common among snipers, lets analyze these facts:

A sniper acts independently from standard infantry, not as a part of a unit but in a one or two man team.

This is possible in paintball, most of the time in scenario games, I am alone behind enemy lines trying to accomplish a mission. But you do very little if any tactical good for your team waiting in one spot for an entire game, hoping a target of high-value (such as the opposing general) walks by.

A sniper does not act at random, he selects targets of high value and eliminates them.

Targets of High Value in a military sense are:

1. Officers:
   • Generals
   • Field Grade officers
   • Company Grade officers
2. Forward Observers
3. Crew Served Weaponry:
   • Heavy Machine Guns
   • Artillery Batteries
   • Mortar Crews
4. Non Commissioned Officers
5. Radiomen

Targets of High Value in Paintball:

1. Generals
2. Tank Crewman (if there are tanks)
3. Um…. Yeah… that’s all I can think of...

The problem with selecting high value targets in a scenario paintball game is, there are very few. The vast majority of players play independently, not under any command and they do what they want. What officers and team captains there are do not look any different than any other players.

The Sniper fires at targets from beyond the range of return fire by the standard infantry weapons, or from distances that were beyond the training of the normal infantryman.

As you can see from the diagrams of the Sniper Rifles of the Period in comparison to the standard issue infantry weapons, the sniper rifle always has a great deal more range than infantry weapons, and the sniper has been trained to an accuracy standard that is beyond that of standard infantry training.

This is where sniping in paintball fails. All paintball markers except those equipped with the Flatline or Apex systems fire the same distance, around 25 yards or 75 feet. The Flatline will reach ranges of up to 150 ft, but because the ball loses velocity at the same rate as a normal paintball, the chances of getting a break, or a single accurate shot at those ranges are close to zero.

The sniper uses a single accurate shot to take his targets down.

The ammunition expended to kill ratio of a sniper in Vietnam was 1.7 rounds per kill. The average infantryman expended 50,000 rounds per confirmed kill.

It is possible to take targets down with a single shot in paintball. However it is near impossible to eliminate a target with a single shot from beyond the effective range of return fire by the enemy.

A sniper uses camouflage and concealment to hide himself from his enemies to eliminate his targets.

No qualms with this, it can be done. Most every scenario paintball player does it. Using camouflage does not make you sniper.

Now as you can see there are several places where sniping fails in paintball. Now look at the definition of a Sharpshooter:

“A sharpshooter… is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert

Ok, this looks a little more feasible in the game of paintball than the sniper definition doesn’t it?

For paintball purposes we can strike rifleman, because there are no rifles in paintball.

“who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

This sounds feasible. The definition of a sniper that Spec Ops puts forth is one of an “ambush player” that fires from concealment, using camouflage. The problem with the Spec Ops definition of a sniper is that it perfectly describes the definition of a sharpshooter in a military sense.

So we will set forth the definition of a Sharpshooter in paintball. This is what most of you would call a Sniper in paintball.

A sharpshooter takes shots from concealment, shoots at targets as the opportunity arises, and uses a marker that has the same range as everyone else’s. This is not a Sniper. This is a sharpshooter. You will never be a sniper in paintball simple ballistics prevent this from ever happening.

The fact of the matter is if you think you are a sniper in paintball, your terminology is wrong. The definition of a sharpshooter, fits paintball a lot closer that the definition of a sniper. But for those of you who insist that you are still snipers, look at an analogy: You work for a living. Your job is to go to people’s houses and businesses, to pick up their trash and take it to the dump. You drive a Garbage Truck. What would you be called, a Garbage Man, or a Professional Truck Driver?

You would be called a Garbage Man, would you not? As much as you would prefer to be called a Professional Truck Driver, everyone would call you a Garbage Man because it fits what you are doing better than the title Professional Truck Driver does.

The definition of Sharpshooter, or a Designated Marksman fits what you are doing in paintball a whole lot better than Sniper does. Stop fooling yourself.

References:

SNIPER- Adrian Gilbert

One Shot-One Kill- Charles W. Sasser and Craig Roberts

Marine Sniper- Charles Henderson

My hat is off to you snake. I happen to have read the book you are talking about. I've had it for some time now, as well as several others about sniping. Please remember that what he said kindof spells out what you have to do to snipe, but snipers are not limited to sniping. They where used in other ways too. And just because they are a snipers doesn't mean everything they do, or every time they take a shot, they are sniping. Anyways. Nice post. I didn't read it all but from what I did read I agreed with most of if not all of it. Makes me happy that someone knows what they are talking about.

RED5MOKE wrote: a paintball sniper needs to be just as stealthy and accurate.

now im going to quote an old saying i heard "how come the sniper crowd thinks they are the only ones who need to be stealthy, i guess the rest of us just march around carrying brass and bright flags" or something like that

From another sniper thread...

BrushHog wrote: What paintball players must understand is there is a huge difference in being a sniper and sniping an opponent. Yes it is possible to snipe a paintballer, however there will never be a paintball sniper.

Thought it summed it all up rather well.

JcKa wrote: everybody chill out

Yep, some people seem to spaz out with the word "sniper"

I hate specops.....brainwashing the 10year olds with there parents money to buy scopes, and other "sniper" stuff.

BrushHog wrote:

Wow.. I would have to dissagree with that. If you snipe, you are a sniper. A sniper is someone that snipes, no? Yes, you can be a sniper and not snipe, but it would be against all odds that you would snipe and not be a sniper. In fact, I don't think its possible. Where I come from is that you can't snipe in paintball, therefore you can't be a sniper in paintball. Not the other way around that would say you can't be a sniper in paintball, therefore you can't snipe. Or you can't be a sniper in paintball, but you can snipe. No, you can't snipe, therefore you can't be a sniper.

The only way you could have a sniper in paintball is if there was a military sniper that came to play. Even then you couldn't snipe, and you wouldn't be a "paintball sniper." I guess I lied about not arguing.

JediJak wrote: Mack wrote: But this doesn't make me a sniper, because I could never be that lucky on a regular basis. By the way, he was way annoyed, and walked off the field shaking his head. i think you hit the nail on the head. You will once in every 100 long range shots get some one out based on luck and just about nothing else

somethin like that

This isn't a dead horse. Its still an enjoyable descusion. Plus, it only takes up one space on the page, so why would you care anyways?

Mack, I would not consider that sniping. First of all it was luck.. Yes, snipers sometimes may use luck, but even if they do its still intentional. That was not only luck, but not intentional. I honestly wouldn't even call that sharpshooting. I would call it what it is, a lucky shot. Anyways, I too am wanting to know who kuhndog was flaming.

This isn't a dead horse. Its still an enjoyable descusion. Plus, it only takes up one space on the page, so why would you care anyways?