I'm just about to get the A5 LPK. My big question is, do we really need the volumizer on this kit? Right now I'm running with a stabilizer and CO2. I have no plans whatsoever in the future to go HPA. For one, CO2 is more accessible to me and I mostly play what some of you guys call urban ball. My folks and grandma live nextdoor to each other with some nice size wooded backyards. No need to go anywhere else.

My take on this is this: the only bottle neck will be at the plunger of the stabilizer. Granted, my theory will work best when the Stab is broken in more. But here it is. Flow doesn't matter much on the lines behind the Stab since this is the pressure is about 800psi. I'll only have a problem if I play when it is really cold or when my tank is almost empty. But since this portion of the setup is 800psi, I don't need to worry about flow since there is the same amount of air in the smaller space.

When I fire the marker, the ~400psi air will flow through the LP valve, while at the same time the 800psi will be spewing through the reg being throttled at the psi I have it set at. For this reason I don't see how the LPC is necessary. I will still be getting the same amount of air feeding through. 

And like I said before, only when the tank psi is around 400 will I have a shootdown problem. The reg plunger will mosty like stay open when fired, but the opening will be too restricted for 400psi flow.

Physics buffs, please correct my science if need be. I am going to try this out once I get the kit. I don't like the idea of losing the stock grip. I figured if I have to, I'll make a custom LPC that attaches to the gauge port of the Stab.

ETippA5 wrote: I'm just about to get the A5 LPK. My big question is, do we really need the volumizer on this kit? Right now I'm running with a stabilizer and CO2. I have no plans whatsoever in the future to go HPA. For one, CO2 is more accessible to me and I mostly play what some of you guys call urban ball. My folks and grandma live nextdoor to each other with some nice size wooded backyards. No need to go anywhere else. My take on this is this: the only bottle neck will be at the plunger of the stabilizer. Granted, my theory will work best when the Stab is broken in more. But here it is. Flow doesn't matter much on the lines behind the Stab since this is the pressure is about 800psi. I'll only have a problem if I play when it is really cold or when my tank is almost empty. But since this portion of the setup is 800psi, I don't need to worry about flow since there is the same amount of air in the smaller space. When I fire the marker, the ~400psi air will flow through the LP valve, while at the same time the 800psi will be spewing through the reg being throttled at the psi I have it set at. For this reason I don't see how the LPC is necessary. I will still be getting the same amount of air feeding through.  And like I said before, only when the tank psi is around 400 will I have a shootdown problem. The reg plunger will mosty like stay open when fired, but the opening will be too restricted for 400psi flow. Physics buffs, please correct my science if need be. I am going to try this out once I get the kit. I don't like the idea of losing the stock grip. I figured if I have to, I'll make a custom LPC that attaches to the gauge port of the Stab.

ET,

I run lower pressures that you do. With my set up with the E-Bolt my Stabilizer is set at 140 to 170 psi. At those pressures, even though I am using HPA, I found a bit of shoot down when walking the trigger without the Volumizer. Here is a picture of my son's marker, similar to mine, to show you how the front grip is not affected.

Bruce,

Which palmers is that. is that the female? I was thinking of a setup like that but my concerns would be the effectiveness of the horizontal stab with CO2, and the flow of the line from the reg to the LPC. what PSI does your sun run that at and does he have any problems with rapid fire? Also keep in mind that my setup is an A5. what I may end up doing if I do notice shootdown is just custom mill a chamber that comes off of the gauge port. The gauge is nice, but that I know we don't need. I just care about my velocity and don't need to be precise about what pressure I'm running at. I just want to try to half the pressure to about 350-400 without the response trig or the cyclone being affected. (I do have the lp feeder hoses already attached).  Thanks

ETippA5 wrote: Bruce, Which palmers is that. is that the female? I was thinking of a setup like that but my concerns would be the effectiveness of the horizontal stab with CO2, and the flow of the line from the reg to the LPC. what PSI does your son run that at and does he have any problems with rapid fire? Also keep in mind that my setup is an A5. what I may end up doing if I do notice shootdown is just custom mill a chamber that comes off of the gauge port. The gauge is nice, but that I know we don't need. I just care about my velocity and don't need to be precise about what pressure I'm running at. I just want to try to half the pressure to about 350-400 without the response trig or the cyclone being affected. (I do have the lp feeder hoses already attached).  Thanks

IIRC it is the Direct. With our original setup it was screwed directly into the power valve. From the picture you can surmise that gas comes from the ASA into the side of the Palmer on the opposite side to the gauge. The low pressure gas goes through the braided hose to the Volumizer. You will note that the hose connection to the Volumizer is through a connection that isn't on the standard Volumizer. I drilled and tapped it to accept the fitting there.

My marker is slightly different with a "T" fitting between the Power valve and the volumizer. The low pressure from the  Stabilizer enters through the third leg of that "T". My full sweep low pressure gauge is connected with a 90 degree fitting to the Volumizer via a drilled and tapped hole on the bottom end.

For some reason, ram dwell or ram pressure, Robin cannot operate his system at as low a pressure as I do. He runs around 200 to 250 psi. Now, this is lower pressure than one can operate if not using the E-Bolt. When you still have to maintain enough pressure to blow-back the bolt to the cocked position it is hard to operate below 350-400 psi.

There have been some custom LP jobs on A-5s posted here, similar to what Bruce did for the 98.  It has definitely been done.  I don't recall anybody doing it without the lp chamber, but definitely some improvements from the stock system.

If somebody can recall who posted those, that would be great.  Or you might try searching back through this forum.

Rambino wrote: There have been some custom LP jobs on A-5s posted here, similar to what Bruce did for the 98.  It has definitely been done.  I don't recall anybody doing it without the lp chamber, but definitely some improvements from the stock system. If somebody can recall who posted those, that would be great.  Or you might try searching back through this forum.

I haven't had access to an A-5, but someone told me that the 98 C E-Bolt can be adapted to work in the A-5. Anyone with experience in this modification?

Thanks for the info Bruce! And yes, even when I had my spyder, I noticed that the optimal pressure without an e grip was about 300-350. any lower than that, i had recocking problems. I don't expect to go below that PSI anyway since that's what Tippmann seems to have landed on. I don't plan on getting the egrip either. I'm going to try the LPK without the vertical adapter. And post the results. If I find I will definitely need an LPC, I'm going to probably keep my palmers male, and work with some ASA extension or adapter. I've seen one I believe that is made by shocktech, that is a male to female that adds a gauge port. This would allow me to keep the gauge and use the gauge port on the stabilizer to add an LPC.

I'll post pics and stuff when I am done.

EDIT - lol. I also just noticed some paws in your second pic. looks like my cat. Nice!

ETippA5 wrote: (SNIP) EDIT - lol. I also just noticed some paws in your second pic. looks like my cat. Nice!

Yes, my Abby wanted to know what the heck I was doing, when I should have been petting her

I have taken a X-chamber and removed the cups , also drilled 2 extra holes as the hole in the chamber is the same size as an ASA( this was for volume) and then installed it to the guage port of the Palmers. This worked exceptionally good , also the X-chamber has a larger volume than the Tippmann volumizer.( I used a Phat 4 chamber).

To top this all off I manufactured a DELRIN (yes Delrin) rear bolt and proper strength springs. The marker is operating at 250psi with a Cyclone and R/T . The marker will operate at a lower pressure with out the Cyclone and R/T. Now I know someone will post that the C and R/T use excess gas to operate and this is true, but when the Marker is is at it's highest efficiency it will not operate them to their highest effectiveness

cus98tom wrote: I have taken a X-chamber and removed the cups , also drilled 2 extra holes as the hole in the chamber is the same size as an ASA( this was for volume) and then installed it to the guage port of the Palmers. This worked exceptionally good , also the X-chamber has a larger volume than the Tippmann volumizer.( I used a Phat 4 chamber). To top this all off I manufactured a DELRIN (yes Delrin) rear bolt and proper strength springs. The marker is operating at 250psi with a Cyclone and R/T . The marker will operate at a lower pressure with out the Cyclone and R/T. Now I know someone will post that the C and R/T use excess gas to operate and this is true, but when the Marker is is at it's highest efficiency it will not operate them to their highest effectiveness

An expansion chamber with the internals removed works just as well as the Volumizer.

Snake6 wrote: But a X chamber has to mount onto a vert adaptor.

Well, because something is set up to mount a certain way has never been a limiting factor for me. And, pugging the inlet of the gutted x-chamber, drilling and tapping the power valve connection and using that for the low pressure feed would make everything function as it needs to.

Bruce,

How did you plug the inlet of the LPC? also where does that blue macro go? Thanks.

I ended up placing an order or the LPK. I'm looking forward to playing with it. I'm gonna mess around and see if I can change the config. If I don't see a reasonable way of moving anything. I'll just make up a nice cushion grip to slide over the stab.

ETippA5 wrote: Bruce, How did you plug the inlet of the LPC? also where does that blue macro go? Thanks. I ended up placing an order for the LPK. I'm looking forward to playing with it. I'm gonna mess around and see if I can change the config. If I don't see a reasonable way of moving anything. I'll just make up a nice cushion grip to slide over the stab.

You will see when you get your LPK that there is no hole in the bottom of the Volumizer (LPC). It is normally connected by the "T" fitting at the end of the LP kit vertical adapter where one end of that fitting goes into the power valve and the other end goes into the Volumizer. The LPK, as it comes from Tippmann, is set up for a male regulator to be screwed into the system through the forward grip. We do not use the vertical adapters in our setups. I drill and tap the Volumizer where I think I need to.  If you need to plug a threaded opening I use either brass plugs available at any hardware store or the lighter weight anodized plugs available from automotive speed shops.

As for that blue "macro-line," it is actually Auto-Cocker pressure tubing that you'll see used for external plumbing on many pneumatic markers. It is very small diameter and low pressure (<100 psi). As we have changed our markers we damaged the small diameter line supplied with the E-Bolt kit. The line is used to connect the low pressure regulator (part of the Psycho-Ballistics  E-Bolt kit) to the solenoid which supplies power to the pneumatic ram. We substituted that blue line because that is what the Pro Shop had in stock.

Just a note, other small diameter line looks similar, such as RC model fuel line, but it is not firm enough to take the pressure where the tube slips over the barbs...even when clamps are used. So stick to the paintball LP line.

Here is a picture of my marker, front and back side. You can see that I have drilled and tapped the end of the Volumizer to accept a pressure gauge. This Stabilizer is call the Sideline and after trying this position I am going to move it again. I bought it because it was on closeout and was less than $50...but it doesn't lend itself to some  mounting positions very well. And, yes, I will eventually get a proper length hose...once I have finalized where I want everything...which requires a day of play to evaluate.

Thanks for the posts Bruce, You've been a big help. One more thing. It seems like both of those marker setups have 1/8 NPT connections between the LPC and valve. I take it you don't have flow problems? did you have to drill any of those fittings wider?

Here is what I am thinking once I get the kit. I'm really picky about losing that stock front grip on the a-5. even though it is a short hard peice of plastic, I love it and it looks good. I'm going to try and use the stock LPC off the kit. I'd like to use an asa to 1/8 NPT and a 90 degree fitting. Mount the Stab right along side of the LPC. I'm hoping that Stock LPC comes out of the adapter.

To be honest. I haven't tapped anything myself yet. I'm hoping I don't need to. I could avoid it if I find a LPC that already has a setup like that. But if I need to, is there a lot of precision involved?

Thanks again.

ETippA5 wrote: Thanks for the posts Bruce, You've been a big help. One more thing. It seems like both of those marker setups have 1/8 NPT connections between the LPC and valve. I take it you don't have flow problems? did you have to drill any of those fittings wider? Here is what I am thinking once I get the kit. I'm really picky about losing that stock front grip on the a-5. even though it is a short hard peice of plastic, I love it and it looks good. I'm going to try and use the stock LPC off the kit. I'd like to use an asa to 1/8 NPT and a 90 degree fitting. Mount the Stab right along side of the LPC. I'm hoping that Stock LPC comes out of the adapter. To be honest. I haven't tapped anything myself yet. I'm hoping I don't need to. I could avoid it if I find a LPC that already has a setup like that. But if I need to, is there a lot of precision involved? Thanks again.

Drilling a tapping for the NPT fittings would be difficult without a drill press and a drill press table vise, but I would not call it precision.

I haven't found 1/8 NPT fittings to be restrictive to air/gas flow. It is what Tippmann uses and drilling them larger might weaken them. They will take the pressure, at least the steel ones, if thinned by drilling, but I would worry just a bit that tightening pressures could break one. The aluminum fittings, those blue ones, are not rated nearly has highly as are brass and steel fittings. I'd only use them in the  "after regulator pressure reduction" in a marker gas system.