Is Iran next?
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=148219
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Topic: Is Iran next?
Posted By: WUNgUN
Subject: Is Iran next?
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:14pm
Someone mentioned to me that Turkey and the US has quietly resolved the issue concerning troops being deployed from US bases in Turkey. Then they told me to look around at the quiet signs that something is brewing, like today's announcement that Iran has restarted it's nuclear program. So I did a search and found this piece that I don't recall from the evening news. http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=89033 - Link I had been told that Iraq was a "warm-up" that went worse than expected, so maybe it was...whatcha think?
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""...the Marines we have there now could crush the city and be done with business in four days."--LtGen Conway on Fallujah
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Replies:
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:16pm
We don't have the resources to invade Iran. We're WAY to far spread between Iraq and Afghanistan (some people seem to forget that is still going on). We would need a full troop withdrawal from both in order to even think about it which won't happen for years.
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Posted By: djrock
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:17pm
Could they start a draft?
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It's been changed jackass.
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Posted By: Jim Paint
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:17pm
One more Battle of Inchon, thats all Im asking.
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saepe fidelis
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:18pm
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No more political capital.
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:19pm
djrock wrote:
Could they start a draft?
| If congress passed a law stating so, yes. But in that case your pro war self should have already enlisted.
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Posted By: WUNgUN
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:21pm
Troops are being redirected everyday from places like South Korea and Japan. Just when you think you have it figured out, it changes. You have to consider that we sent about 1/3 or so troops to Iraq the second time around and not nearly as many NG, so nothing is impossible. We have resources when we "need" them.
------------- [IMG]http://hometown.aol.com/hlwrangler/myhomepage/revised5_copy.jpg">
""...the Marines we have there now could crush the city and be done with business in four days."--LtGen Conway on Fallujah
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Posted By: djrock
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:22pm
Yah, you're real funny. I am not totally pro war in all cases. And I probaby wouldn't enlist.
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It's been changed jackass.
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Posted By: Justice
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:26pm
Yes, we need more oil.
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-JUSTICE
http://www.myspace.com/outkastpaintball - Outkast Myspace
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Posted By: Whazuuup!
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:40pm
No way.
The public is so ticked off at the Iraq situation, going into Iran would be political suicide.
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Posted By: TruePaintballer
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:41pm
i really wish that the invading would stop, until hard evidence is present
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Posted By: Attila
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 8:47pm
gah, Iran.... I dont know what were gonna do with the whole middle east
issue, they just dont quit. I think another war would be
devastating to the economy and the countrys stability. were
already fighting a multi-front war, and we dont need another one.
isnt the irani president the wetad who said the holocaust never
happend?
------------- Hey! Are Those My BALLS On Your FACE?!
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 9:04pm
mbro wrote:
djrock wrote:
Could they start a draft?
| If congress passed a law stating so, yes. But in that case your pro war self should have already enlisted. |
I know it wasnt directed towards me. But as I am pro war. I would like to point out I'm at bootcamp the 17th for the Marines.
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Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 9:05pm
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djrock wrote:
Yah, you're real funny. I am not totally pro war in all cases. And I probaby wouldn't enlist. |
Sean and Rush salute you.
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Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 9:07pm
djrock wrote:
Yah, you're real funny. I am not totally pro war in all cases. And I probaby wouldn't enlist.
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So, you're a hypocritical communist?
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 9:08pm
Frozen Balls wrote:
djrock wrote:
Yah, you're real funny. I am not totally pro war in all cases. And I probaby wouldn't enlist.
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So, you're a hypocritical communist?
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Posted By: tippy919
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 9:28pm
we wouldnt need a draft, it takes a man with some balls to start a war and pres. bush did just that. we have so many troops between fulltime and reserves we wouldnt need the draft. We are the powerhouse of the world and as long as citizen keep signing up to defend the motherland i dont think that theres anything we as a county could not do.
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Posted By: amishman89
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 10:07pm
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I do however support the "defend the motherland thing". Instead of invading other countries lets start invading here in America. Lets invade the school system , lets invade the social security and welfare system. What about poverty. We give billions of dollars to other countries for food and stuff which is nice but lets spend that money on people here in America. No more out sourcing. We are digging own grave here. Spend more money here in America and we will prosper. Let the middle east solve there own problems. Hey if it comes down between a civil was over there let it be done. We had one and you might remember we pretty much settled are problems. They are the same crooks,thieves, and liars we have in are government if they cant deal with it then move! So what if we lose oil partners. We got Alaska and we can use more fuel efficent cars. Oil is going to dry up some day and that day is coming. We must plan for the furture.
Amishman for president!
------------- Only Hugh can prevent florist friars.
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 10:11pm
Justice wrote:
Yes, we need more oil.
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hahaha
*starts slow clap*
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Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 10:11pm
tippy919 wrote:
we wouldnt need a draft, it takes a man with some balls
to start a war and pres. bush did just that. we have so many troops
between fulltime and reserves we wouldnt need the draft. We are the
powerhouse of the world and as long as citizen keep signing up to
defend the motherland i dont think that theres anything we as a county
could not do. |
Umm...no? Ever hear of logistics? Money? Support? It doesn't take balls to make the first swing, it takes a reckless attitude.
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 10:13pm
^Just....Shut up...^(the "it takes balls kid")
Anyway yeah, it's lookin that way and if God hates us as much as Pat
Robertson says he does it'll oughta happen sometime next week. And I
don't care what you people say, there have been high up Army generals
saying that we're spread thin as it is, if we go into Iran I got it at
least 100/1 there will be a draft. Of course maybe Europe will help us
out if this crap hits the fan because it would ya know....sorta make
sense....Still, we'd be hard pressed to do it with our current forces.
And this 20 casualities a day crap would be history too.....If you
people that are religious want to pull a favor for us non-believers now
would be the time....
Oh and I'd say if it does happen it'll start with Isreal. Maybe we'll
stop backing them at every damn chance and let them handle themselves
for once but I doubt it......I can here the Armagedon screamers now...
ps
I heart Amishman! Well said....
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 10:23pm
it takes many things to take the first swing. of that, yes, someone needs balls. as well as confidence, planning, support, and materials. not to mention money to get it all going and maintain it. not to mention a somewhat larger than normal ego, boosted morality and of course, determination. war is expensive but as an economic principle, war is good for the economy. any country winning a war experiences a bit of an economic boost. of course, the loser suffers. no i don't think we need to do much more over there other than stabilize iraq and then get the hell out.
btw guys let's remember we aren't at war with iraq. congress never declared war.
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 10:26pm
Nope, we're not. Course that hasn't meant much since Korea.....
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 10 January 2006 at 11:54pm
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I see the Isrealis using some of the bunker buster bombs we sold them within the next two years.
If Iraq had been handled correctly we might be in a position to do something about Iran militarily. Like if we hadn't disbanded the Iraqi Army and used them to regain order in a hurry before the looting got out of control. That set us back YEARS. That was probably the bonehead move of the decade.
We don't currently have the option of invading Iran without a very strong coalition, meaning Iran would have to seriously upset the Europeans, which with the crap their President has been spewing about the holocaust, is actually possible. Diplomacy is our only real option at this point, that and waiting for Isreal to bomb their nuke program back a few years. Any coalition against Iran could not be made up of more than 50% American Infantry and have a chance of being politically sucessful. We could probably get away with using our logistics more heavily than coalition forces. I of course, base this figure on entirely nothing.
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Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 12:16am
I think we all agree we should have had an exit plan for Iraq.
If we actually invade Iran I will be very surprised. I would be even
more surprised if they give the go ahead for the draft (they remember
how well that went over for vietnam.).
We should be keeping a closer eye on China, instead of Irans nuclear program.
But then I think of what they will bomb with the nuclear power.
Isreal... Then we will have to go in and help. But I think we will just
give them weapons then an actual invasion.
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 12:26am
i agree we need a better exit plan/strategy. but i don't think the operations have gone exactly the way we expected from the start.
they removed a cruel dictator from power, expected. didn't find wmd's, unexpected. discovered the potential/capacity for making wmd's, expected. remained in the country for this long, unexpected. finally, acting as a temporary police force, expected.
they had an exit strategy. they just didn't plan to be there this long or take on this much responsibility... i supported moving into iraq because i believed like many other people around the globe there were wmd's present. now that we didn't find them and our plans changed, i support getting out as soon as we can. i'm uncomfortable that we just kinda bust in their country, rearranged the government, blew a bunch of crap up, and failed to accomplish our goal of finding the weapons. but i am satisfied sadam is out of power. have any of you seen the victims testify to the jailings/punishment/torture? some testimonies are very detailed....very vivid and moving. the best thing for america is to just lay low, not be too active on the foreign political front, and let others deal with life. if something major happens like another world war, more attempted genocides, or anything requiring UN assistance then we are needed. other than that, we're over here. they're over there and let's leave it that way.
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 12:28am
High Voltage wrote:
Justice wrote:
Yes, we need more oil.
| hahaha*starts slow clap* | joins in slowly clapping faster and faster
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Posted By: cadet_sergeant
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 12:25pm
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the united states is turning out just like Rome, moral coruption, poilitical coruption, weakining military, you get the idea. After where done in Iraq we need to pull out and rethink our anti terrorism stratigy. terrorism is going to be here 10 years from now. we need to stop sending billions to helping other countries where our problems are growing. i cant stand that after 9/11 or katrina we didnt get vary much foriegn money but when some thing happends out side the US we are expected to fork out more money that everyone. Education reform is another thing this country needs. a flat 17% tax for everyone (yeah even that top 3%) more later.....
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Posted By: amishman89
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 2:18pm
I say we with drawl from Iraq, Afganistan,Korea, and all these other countries. Didnt we have a "war on drugs". That campaign was bull crap. Take the dudes we have over seas place them over here to protect the borders of America. I guarantee there would be less crime rate here in America. Why?? you ask. Drugs cause alot of crimes in this country. Protect the borders less drugs and people smuggled over here. People who are in under devloped cities who cant go into any colleges or who think they have no furture turn to a life of crime. Selling drugs, robbery, murder, and so on and so forth. If you give those people an alternative you can get them to be a productive member of society. Joing the army would be a great alternative for those people. If we cant rely on America to protect us from drugs and drug related crimes maybe we should ask Chuck Norris to help us. &nb sp; Chuck!!!! help.
------------- Only Hugh can prevent florist friars.
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Posted By: Justice
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 2:21pm
Yeah jeeze, I am paying almost 60.00 a week again for gas in my 4-banger!
Operation: US Needs cheaper oil prices
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-JUSTICE
http://www.myspace.com/outkastpaintball - Outkast Myspace
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 3:45pm
Not that invading places brings the prices down.....that is unless we invade the idiot oil CEOs' offices. Thats what I vote for.
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Posted By: Justice
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 3:47pm
All your oil are belong to us.
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-JUSTICE
http://www.myspace.com/outkastpaintball - Outkast Myspace
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 3:50pm
By the way, who thinks that there are already special forces teams in
Iran blowing stuff up? I do, I mean the SF Teams we sent into Iraq
before they ever said we were going to war had like a quarter of the
country taken over before we ever officially went in, I don't see why
we wouldn't do so stuff under the radar....'Course...Iran could attack
us in Iraq if we make them angry and they're nuts enough to do so, so
there are somewhat higher stakes at hand in blowing up Iranian gear
right now....
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Posted By: WUNgUN
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 4:21pm
Here is the issue young geopoliticians in training, Isreal is in real tough shape politically right now. It is splitting and Sharon's condition is not helping. What if he dies tomorrow? You know who is coming back (most likely), big daddy Netanyahu and he is PO'd. The West Bank reoccupation will begin and if he thinks that Iran is even close to a threat, let the preemptive strikes begin. What does this mean for us. Syria, Egypt, and Lebanon will have a Jihad card and use it. The US will have to keep its pledge to defend poor Isreal. This can all be avoided if the US takes action first with the failure to meet UN's demands issue and in the name of the UN Security Council.
China? Who said China? China is slowly adopting "western" ways and is a role model for rogues like NK right now. In 10 years you won't even remember that they are reds.
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""...the Marines we have there now could crush the city and be done with business in four days."--LtGen Conway on Fallujah
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 4:27pm
Yeah and they're quickly growing their military and population too....Not
to mention relations between China and the US aren't as peachy as some people seem to think. Between the artificial inflation to
the spying from both sides (anyone remember the U2 that got shot down
just before 9/11? Or the spies in Los Alamos?)........I don't see
hostilities between us and China as anything close to impossible.
Anyway, I'd say you're right on as far as Isreal goes. I just hope we
aren't saying you were right on here in a couple months when we've got
the 5th Marine Division heading towards Tehran......
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Posted By: WUNgUN
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 4:36pm
.Ryan, spying? We spy on our closest allies, its the game you have to play. We give these nations military "secrets" all the time, even to China (cough*Clinton*cough). Some of the biggest "issues" we have with spying are with ISRAEL! To predict where our biggest concerns are I think it would serve you best to read into the language (tough talk) that is used when our leaders talk about other nations. Its Iran all day now. Three years ago, Iraq, Iran, and NK. Pattern?
Before someone else points it out, I know I have spelled Israel wrong a lot. Common ways of spelling take over when I am typing.
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""...the Marines we have there now could crush the city and be done with business in four days."--LtGen Conway on Fallujah
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Posted By: Justice
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 4:40pm
Lets just have the Isrealies blow up the nuke plants like they did to Saddam.
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-JUSTICE
http://www.myspace.com/outkastpaintball - Outkast Myspace
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 4:54pm
You have a point. I don't know, maybe I'm just letting a bit of
personal animosity for China cloud me a bit or maybe I just like to
think about conflict in terms of major power vs. major power like it
used to be......But yeah, we could do that Jus, ofcourse Iran would
prolly invade then we'd "have" to go defend them and it'd be just as
bad anyway.....Actually, maybe we should do it before Isreal does so
they don't invade them? Or just be all Splinter Cell about it and cause
the thing to melt down "by accident" or something....
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Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 5:08pm
I think Israel can take most of the middle east and come out on top. I may be wrong.
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 5:17pm
Ya know though, if a major war did break out in the mideast and the
whole thing got blown to crap, which is prolly what would prolly happen
if stuff went south with Iran and Isreal, maybe we could start from
scratch and rebuild the damn thing like we did with Europe under the
Marshal plan. Either that or finally get tired of spending American
blood and treasure to try and "fix" them and quit so we can worry about
our own country for a while....either way would work for
me....especially the second one....
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Posted By: Brian Fellows
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:18pm
We've probably got Delta in just about every country that's so much as looked at us wrong.
That's how we roll.
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:34pm
Brian Fellows wrote:
We've probably got Delta in just about every country that's so much as looked at us wrong.
That's how we roll.
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No we dont.
Delta is a counter-terrorist unit, trained in hostage rescue in controlled situations.
Delta is not a Covert Operations unit.
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Posted By: Brian Fellows
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:35pm
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At least, that's what they tell you.
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:40pm
You mean the world doesn't really work like a Tom Clancy novel?
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:40pm
Brian Fellows wrote:
At least, that's what they tell you.
| they actually won't tell you anything. They will not acknowledge or deny.
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Posted By: Justice
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:41pm
Frozen Balls wrote:
I think Israel can take most of the middle east and come out on top. I may be wrong.
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I second that.
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-JUSTICE
http://www.myspace.com/outkastpaintball - Outkast Myspace
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:45pm
Brian Fellows wrote:
At least, that's what they tell you.
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Thats right, because we all know its some big government conspiracy..
By the way most covert operations units, the ones that never existed are pulled from standard infantry and other units, not from SOCOM. SOCOM is tight knit group, so people wonder when 10 men suddenly dissaper from the ranks. So people are pulled from infantry units, given the training needed then inserted where need be. It is easier to lose a man in an orginization 50,000 strong, than an orginization of 2,000.
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Posted By: Enos Shenk
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:49pm
High Voltage wrote:
didn't find wmd's, unexpected.
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Speak for yourself. I thought it was smoke and mirrors from the beginning.
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Posted By: djrock
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:51pm
Badsmitty wrote:
djrock wrote:
Yah, you're real funny. I am not totally pro war in all cases. And I probaby wouldn't enlist. |
Sean and Rush salute you. |
And where was Bill?
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It's been changed jackass.
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Posted By: Jim Paint
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 8:13pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Six_Day_War - Israel>them
Israel can handle their own. Unless of course that was backed by the US, which it probaly was.
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saepe fidelis
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 8:27pm
It'd be the first time in a long while that our pilots would be up against an opposing airforce of turkey's caliber.
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
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Posted By: cadet_sergeant
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 12:15pm
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im not sure how you all feel about drilling in ANWAR, but it will decrease our dependency on forien oil. if you believe this "it will kill the carabo" crap you need to move to france. it will not hurt the carabo, they'll produce more off spring, beable to grase longer in the winter, the list continues. anyway i hope this country wakes up to SS reform, 17% flat tax, and education reform.
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 12:27pm
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The whole "dependency on foreign oil" argument for ANWR drilling is fallacious. Crude is a commodity that is traded internationally. Oil companies are international entities.
You buy your gasoline from BP/Amoco, which is a US/UK conglomorate, or from Citgo, which is owned by the Venezuelan government, or from ConocoPhillips, which is a US company with operations around the world.
Those companies in turn buy crude from a variety of sources, and drill for their own as well.
Are there politics in the petroleum business? Of course - but this whole idea that "we" get "our" oil from "them" is contrary to the facts of the global commodities economy.
ANWR drilling will provide additional revenue to the Alaskans and to whatever private companies buy the drilling rights, but it is downright false to say that it will have any meaningful impact on national security. Oil is oil - doesn't matter where it comes from. At most, ANWR drilling will result in a tiny tiny reduction in the global price of crude. Moreover, even if you did accept the falsehood of "teh furren oil", ANWR drilling would only be a drop in the bucket of our national crude usage.
Which, of course, leads to the crude vs. refined distinction. The US government is a large user of refined petroleum products - but hardly uses any crude oil, and doesn't own any refineries. Even if the government owned a bucket of crude oil, it would still be beholden to the owners of the refineries and distribution systems.
Now, what makes more sense is to say that we wish to reduce our dependency on oil, generally. If we were free of oil we would also be free of the economic politics surrounding oil. ANWR drilling, of course, does nothing to free us from our petro-culture.
There are many fine reasons to drill in ANWR. "Freeing us from foreign oil" is not one of them.
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 1:48pm
cadet_sergeant wrote:
im not sure how you all feel about drilling in
ANWAR, but it will decrease our dependency on forien oil. if you
believe this "it will kill the carabo" crap you need to move to france.
it will not hurt the carabo, they'll produce more off spring, beable to
grase longer in the winter, the list continues. anyway i hope this
country wakes up to SS reform, 17% flat tax, and education reform.
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And I hope you wake up to reality....I don't care about the carabo but
Alaska has all of like 6 months worth of crude in it so it'll just be a
bandaid that wont solve anything at all. Hell, it's not like we're
gonna stop buying oil from the Arabs for that six months anyway,
probably wont even decrease our orders. But I'm just gonna stop there
because if I start getting into the rest of the stuff you talked about
I might have to cry my self to sleep tonight. And that love it or leave
it mind set is ABSOLUTE IDIOCY! Think about what this country is about
and constast it to that line of crap.....you might understand.
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 3:21pm
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cadet_sergeant wrote:
... i hope this country wakes up to SS reform, 17% flat tax, and education reform. |
Social security reform? What exactly do you propose? "Reform" simply means "change".
Flat tax - are you really sure you want that? While simplifying the tax code may be a good idea, much would be sacrificed with a truly flat tax. (not that anybody has actually proposed an actual tax yet)
Education reform - same question. You imply that some great change is needed. What is this change? I have some ideas myself, but would love to hear what exactly you have in mind.
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 11:07pm
For him Reform means destroy. Biggest case of throwing the baby out with the bath water ever.
Flat taxes aren't needed, government favor of the rich just needs to be cut out....
Education reform is a joke in this administration. How about we fully
fund it first then talk about doing other things. 'Course we need that
money to make bombs and whatnot so that takes precident.....It's the
American way I guess....
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Posted By: WUNgUN
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 4:40pm
What a difference a week makes! Now our "friends" at the UN are putting pressure on Iran and Iran is taking measures to move some of its money around. I think they are dodging a preemptive strike on their finances, vis-a-vis Iraq and USB to name a few victims, by the US or UN.
------------- [IMG]http://hometown.aol.com/hlwrangler/myhomepage/revised5_copy.jpg">
""...the Marines we have there now could crush the city and be done with business in four days."--LtGen Conway on Fallujah
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Posted By: monty_sniper
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 4:52pm
Rambino wrote:
The whole "dependency on foreign oil" argument for ANWR drilling is fallacious. Crude is a commodity that is traded internationally. Oil companies are international entities.
You buy your gasoline from BP/Amoco, which is a US/UK conglomorate, or from Citgo, which is owned by the Venezuelan government, or from ConocoPhillips, which is a US company with operations around the world.
Those companies in turn buy crude from a variety of sources, and drill for their own as well.
Are there politics in the petroleum business? Of course - but this whole idea that "we" get "our" oil from "them" is contrary to the facts of the global commodities economy.
ANWR drilling will provide additional revenue to the Alaskans and to whatever private companies buy the drilling rights, but it is downright false to say that it will have any meaningful impact on national security. Oil is oil - doesn't matter where it comes from. At most, ANWR drilling will result in a tiny tiny reduction in the global price of crude. Moreover, even if you did accept the falsehood of "teh furren oil", ANWR drilling would only be a drop in the bucket of our national crude usage.
Which, of course, leads to the crude vs. refined distinction. The US government is a large user of refined petroleum products - but hardly uses any crude oil, and doesn't own any refineries. Even if the government owned a bucket of crude oil, it would still be beholden to the owners of the refineries and distribution systems.
Now, what makes more sense is to say that we wish to reduce our dependency on oil, generally. If we were free of oil we would also be free of the economic politics surrounding oil. ANWR drilling, of course, does nothing to free us from our petro-culture.
There are many fine reasons to drill in ANWR. "Freeing us from foreign oil" is not one of them. |
------------- 98% of ion owners think ions are better than any high end gun. If you would like to bonus ball these idiots put this in your sig.
Proud owner of 3 guns and counting.
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Posted By: Badsmitty
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 5:17pm
djrock wrote:
Badsmitty wrote:
djrock wrote:
Yah, you're real funny. I am not totally pro war in all cases. And I probaby wouldn't enlist. |
Sean and Rush salute you.
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And where was Bill?
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He was busy not invading Iraq.
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 6:35pm
If You're Happy And You Know It - Bomb Iraq
If you cannot find Osama,bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is too risky,
Bomb Iraq.
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Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 8:06pm
djrock wrote:
Could they start a draft?
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Nope.
The draft will NEVER pass through congress.
Even if it did, there would be mass chaos.
Personally, I would NEVER fight or participate like that war and NO government will ever make me do that.
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 8:27pm
Bolt3 wrote:
djrock wrote:
Could they start a draft?
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Nope.
The draft will NEVER pass through congress.
Even if it did, there would be mass chaos.
Personally, I would NEVER fight or participate like that war and NO government will ever make me do that.
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The draft has already been passed through congress over 50 years ago. All it has to do is be enacted.
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
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Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 10:34pm
usafpilot07 wrote:
Bolt3 wrote:
djrock wrote:
Could they start a draft?
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Nope.
The draft will NEVER pass through congress.
Even if it did, there would be mass chaos.
Personally, I would NEVER fight or participate like that war and NO government will ever make me do that.
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The draft has already been passed through congress over 50 years ago. All it has to do is be enacted.
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SO much has changed since 50 years ago, dear.
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Posted By: holysmartone
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 10:38pm
Whilst I agree that the draft would probably never happen, its still possible. Never say never I guess.
BTW, how do you plan to avoid the draft? When you turned 18 you signed
a paper that put you into the draft list. If you want to try and dodge
it, thats a felony I believe. Not the best of ideas.
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Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 10:56pm
There's where the system becomes ridiculous.
You HAVE the choice of signing the paper, but if you don't, you can't go to college, get a job, take loans out of the bank; you can't do anything just because you don't believe in fighting and you don't agree to sign up to be in the military if a draft is issued.
I just believe that's not right. If a draft is issued, there's no way in hell, they could FORCE me to join. It's my natural born right to have a government that PROTECTS me; not me protecting my government.
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 11:27pm
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Bolt, I seriously doubt if it comes to a draft they will be lining the draft dodgers up along the wall with all those pock-marks and blood stains on it.
Not to say draft dodgers wont be punished, but you'll have a choice, fight, or accept the consequences of avoiding the draft. Crappy choices are still choices. Besides, there's always consciencious objector status. Failing that just start reponding to the voices in your head out loud
Nobody wants a draft, especially not the military. They don't even like training recruits that suck, let alone ones that don't want to be there. However, the way I'm seeing it, if the draft ever was reinstated, considering how unpopular that would be, it'd have to be for a serious situation, like actualy invasion of US soil, and I doubt many people would dodge the draft then.
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Posted By: holysmartone
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 11:27pm
Well, the COULD send you to jail.
Because it IS a law that if you dont join you get punished.
Not sure exactly what the punishment is though.
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Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 11:57pm
rednekk98 wrote:
Bolt, I seriously doubt if it comes to a draft they will be lining the draft dodgers up along the wall with all those pock-marks and blood stains on it.
Not to say draft dodgers wont be punished, but you'll have a choice, fight, or accept the consequences of avoiding the draft. Crappy choices are still choices. Besides, there's always consciencious objector status. Failing that just start reponding to the voices in your head out loud
Nobody wants a draft, especially not the military. They don't even like training recruits that suck, let alone ones that don't want to be there. However, the way I'm seeing it, if the draft ever was reinstated, considering how unpopular that would be, it'd have to be for a serious situation, like actualy invasion of US soil, and I doubt many people would dodge the draft then. |
I'm not saying I'm a "Draft-Dodger".
I'm just saying I see no point in fighting for something you don't believe in.
I was applying the draft to the Iraq war.
Sorry for any confusion.
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 12:36am
What happens if you don't fill out Selective Service when you turn 18?
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Posted By: Bango
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 12:39am
Bolt3 wrote:
rednekk98 wrote:
Bolt, I seriously doubt if it comes to a draft they will be lining the draft dodgers up along the wall with all those pock-marks and blood stains on it.
Not to say draft dodgers wont be punished, but you'll have a choice, fight, or accept the consequences of avoiding the draft. Crappy choices are still choices. Besides, there's always consciencious objector status. Failing that just start reponding to the voices in your head out loud
Nobody wants a draft, especially not the military. They don't even like training recruits that suck, let alone ones that don't want to be there. However, the way I'm seeing it, if the draft ever was reinstated, considering how unpopular that would be, it'd have to be for a serious situation, like actualy invasion of US soil, and I doubt many people would dodge the draft then. |
I'm not saying I'm a "Draft-Dodger".
I'm just saying I see no point in fighting for something you don't believe in.
I was applying the draft to the Iraq war.
Sorry for any confusion.
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What's the difference between fighting a war you think is just as opposed to fighting a war you think is unjust? When it comes down to it, when you're being shot at, you won't care.
------------- http://imageshack.us">
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Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 1:03pm
High Voltage wrote:
If You're Happy And You Know It - Bomb Iraq
If you cannot find Osama,bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is too risky,
Bomb Iraq. |
AHAHAHA!!!! 
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Posted By: Wildgoat
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 4:11pm
It took the national gaurd 4 days to make it into New Orleans. It took a few hours for hundreds of news anchors and camera men. The armed forces of our great nation are a joke with all the procedures and terrible leadership skills. "Military Intelligence is 2 words combined that don't make sense"-Dave Mustane(Megadeath) so, in conclusion we will ruin our nation, Lose many more soldiers, and show the rest of the world that we are not truly fit for outside our border combat just like in Veitnam, kosuvo, Afganistan and Iraq. I must apoligize to those who serve our country if offended by this but, The truth hurts.
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Hitler of the 21st century!!!
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Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 6:06pm
Wildgoat wrote:
It took the national gaurd 4 days to make it into New Orleans. It took a few hours for hundreds of news anchors and camera men. The armed forces of our great nation are a joke with all the procedures and terrible leadership skills. "Military Intelligence is 2 words combined that don't make sense"-Dave Mustane(Megadeath) so, in conclusion we will ruin our nation, Lose many more soldiers, and show the rest of the world that we are not truly fit for outside our border combat just like in Veitnam, kosuvo, Afganistan and Iraq. I must apoligize to those who serve our country if offended by this but, The truth hurts. |
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Posted By: holysmartone
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 9:21pm
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^ Hate to tell you guys, but America has mastered the art of war.
We would be hard pressed to find a single country that could defeat us in all out balls to the wall war. Things regarding New Orleans were, complicated. I am far too exhausted to go into that now, but I think I remember the director of FEMA taking responsibility for said screw-ups.
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