hello all,

I have been out of the game a while (years) and receintly i purchased a Tippman 98 custom pro w/ collapsible stock and freak barrel w/ filter 687. 

I would like to upgrade this to a sniper marker by i have no idea what upgrades are now avilable to do this and which upgrades are good over the ones that are crap.

I am looking to not spend much money but that really isn't a issue.  Can you please suggest a place to purchase these upgrades.

Thanks

Rock Slide wrote:

^^^
Now to help you out abit. I assume you want ranged Sniping?
I assume you play Woodsball, yes? Or Scenario at the least.
-BT APEX Barrel
Gives you +75-150ft over that barrel you got now. Plus, they won't be able to hit you back unless they are using an APEX/Flatline as well.
-Red Dot Sight
30mm. 42mm recommended. A GOOD ONE! Make the first/second shot count. Costs roughly $35-$100US.
-Palmers Stabiliser
Kills those velocity spikes. Marker runs 500%+ consistant. Stick with CO2.
-Remote Line/Coil
I don't think you want that tank in your way while sniping. Takes much weight off the gun. Get used to extra weight on the front end.

^^^
Now to help you out abit. I assume you want ranged Sniping?
I assume you play Woodsball, yes? Or Scenario at the least.
-BT APEX Barrel
Flatline/ apex
-Red Dot Sight
Don't get one they ar useless
-Palmers Stabiliser
HPA is thy way to go
-Remote Line/Coil
I don't think you want that tank in your way while sniping. Takes much weight off the gun. Get used to extra weight on the front end.

Or a draganov they are good to.

Monkey Dust wrote: ^^^ Now to help you out abit. I assume you want ranged Sniping? I assume you play Woodsball, yes? Or Scenario at the least. -BT APEX Barrel Flatline/ apex -Red Dot Sight Don't get one they ar useless -Palmers Stabiliser HPA is thy way to go -Remote Line/Coil I don't think you want that tank in your way while sniping. Takes much weight off the gun. Get used to extra weight on the front end.

Who are you o say Red Dot Sights are useless? Ever tried using one? If you don't see an advantage, you are so very wrong. Calibrate a Dot Sight to 90ft and you'll hit dead on everytime if using good quality paint. I hit MY targets everytime while using it. How do you no see an advantage to that?

And why does everyone keep saying "HPA is the way to go"?
It is ONE of the ways to to, not the most definate.
READ: http://www.thingpaintball.ca/co2Use.shtml - http://www.thingpaintball.ca/co2Use.shtml
Read up on the other articles as well.

ok to clairify on what i have say earlier.  I only play woodsball.  I play sniper and rifleman depending on the team. 

 i am look for a barrel that can have the distance but will not give off too much muzzle flash.  but be able to handle rapid fire without chopping.

I also need a remote line. not intrested in any sights or scopes. but curious about stablizers and expantion chambers.   I run off co2. 

The History of Military Sniping, and how it relates to the Game of Paintball.

Ok. So I got bored, and I am sick and tried of this stupid sniper debate. I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas, and didn’t know what else to get so I picked up several books on Military Snipers. Here are my findings.

< -- Note: Due to a problem with my code, you have to Highlight my rifle comparison tables to see them. It’s a bother, but if someone knows how to fix it, PM me. -- >

First lets go over the basics of what a sniper is, and what a sniper is not.

“A sniper…is considered a specialist, whose prime function is to kill selected high value targets at long range using superior skill and armament. A sharpshooter, by contrast, is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert

Keep this in your mind as you read the rest of the article.

The American Revolution (1775-83)

Sniping first came onto the battlefield during the American Revolution. Standard infantry of this period were equipped with “Brown Bess” smoothbore muskets. The Continental Congress approves 10 independent companies, armed with long rifles. The men of these companies were the first snipers.

Comparison between the “Brown Bess” musket, and the Long Rifle.

“A soldiers musket, if not exceedingly ill bored (as many are), will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards: it may even at 100, but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, provided that the antagonist aims at him; as to firing at a man at 200 yards, with a common, musket, you might as well fire at the moon.” –British Major Hanger, on the “Brown Bess” musket

 In contrast, the American Long Rifle (as carried by the Irregular companies), was effective in ranges up to 300 yards, and headshots could be achieved at 200. At these ranges American Snipers picked-off high ranking British Officers. During the battle of Saratoga an American sniper brought down British General Simon Frasier from a range of 300 yards. Despite its advantages the long rifle had several disadvantages. Its slow reload time(2 shots a minute), and lack of bayonet fixture made it useful only as a skirmisher weapon, not for use as a standard infantry weapon.

As you can see from the table, the Rifle outranged the common muskets of the time by over 200 yards.

The War of Northern Aggression (American Civil War) (1861-65)

During the Civil War, the standard infantry rifles were the Enfield(for the south), and the Springfield(for the north). These were muzzleloading rifles with effective ranges up to 500 yards. The confederacy managed to acquire Witworth and Kerr rifles from Europe for their snipers. These rifles had an effective range of well over 1200 yards, and hits were reported at over 1500 yards.

Confederate Snipers were selected in a manner which has been used to select snipers in most present wars. The best men from each infantry regiment entered into shooting competitions. They were required to hit man-sized boards at 500 yards. The best shooters were given the prized Kerr and Witworth rifles. They then went through extensive training in the use of these rifles.

The snipers were warned never to get within 400 yards of the enemy, but to use their superior range, to keep the enemy at a safe distance.

World War I (1914-18)

US Snipers during World War I used modified, and accurized versions of  the standard service rifle the Springfield 1903, equipped with 2 to 4 power scopes. Snipers during the war mostly sniped from behind the MLR, the main trench line. These snipers were Infantrymen taken off the line, and equipped with scoped rifles. With their rifles they could pick the enemy off 3 or 4 trench lines back from the MLR. The marksmanship standard for infantry of the time was to be able to hit a standing man from around 100 yards. The snipers were trained to hit targets from over 500 yards.

World War II (1938-45)

World War II snipers were selected in different manners during the war. I will concentrate on the Marine Corps Snipers trained at Green’s Farm because the documentation of this school and its snipers is the best. There, snipers were instructed in 5 week courses in marksmanship, camouflage, and field craft. They were trained to approach a target using stealth and to eliminate the target from long distances. These snipers were required to hit a moving target at 500 yards, and to hit a stationary target at 1000. They were equipped much the same way as snipers in WWI  were. These snipers used accurized  versions of the M1903 Springfield service rifle, the A1 or A3 variants equipped with 2 or 4 power scopes. Marine Infantry qualified at 500 yards.

Korea (1950-53)

Korea, in the latter part of the war turned into a bogged down war of attrition, looking somewhat like the trench warfare of WWI. This, alongside Korea’s terrain of rolling hills combined to make it prime sniper territory. Sniping tactics in Korea did not change much from the tactics of WWII so I will not elaborate on them. The rifles also remained the same. Snipers in Korea were equipped with 1903A3 Variant Springfield’s, and National Match M1’s(which were used in competition shooting because they were more accurate than the standard M1) Equipped with 4 power scopes(the M1D model). The accuracy of the M1 was not as good as that of the Springfield, due to the need to offset the scope, and have major Eye Relief built-in to the rifle due to the Clip Feed of the M1. These M1’s still were able to reach ranges of 500 yards accurately. In Korea the use of the .50 caliber round for sniping was first seen. M2 Machine Guns mounted with a 10 power scope were able to reach ranges of 2800 yards effectively, Snipers also experimented with .55 Caliber Boy’s antitank rifles modified to take .50 caliber rounds, and mounted with scopes which had the same range as the M2, but was able to be carried by a man whereas the M2’s were limited to fixed positions.

Vietnam (1965-75)

Vietnam is the perfect example of how a sniper can be employed during combat. The restrictive ROE and vast open fields and rice paddy’s of Vietnam became prime sniper territory. The Marine Corps and the Army both Fielded Snipers. Army snipers were equipped with accurized versions of the M14 service rifle, accurate out to 700 yards. The Marine Corps fielded snipers equipped with Winchester Model 70 Hunting rifles firing the .30-06 cartridge, and later in the war snipers carried the M40, which fired the standard 7.62x51mm(.308) cartridge both of these rifles had an effective range of over 1000 yards. Also snipers used modified M2 .50 caliber machine guns, fitted with scopes. These were accurate to ranges out to 2500 yards. Normal infantry of the time fired the M16 Assault Rifle, and the enemy fired the AK-47 assault rifle. These rifles were designed for infantry combat which takes place in ranges of only around 200 yards, and can only be fired accurately up to 500 yards. Thus snipers were able to operate with impunity from beyond the range of effective return fire of the enemy.

Now through all these wars several things have remained in common among snipers, lets analyze these facts:

A sniper acts independently from standard infantry, not as a part of a unit but in a one or two man team.

This is possible in paintball, most of the time in scenario games, I am alone behind enemy lines trying to accomplish a mission. But you do very little if any tactical good for your team waiting in one spot for an entire game, hoping a target of high-value (such as the opposing general) walks by.

A sniper does not act at random, he selects targets of high value and eliminates them.

Targets of High Value in a military sense are:

1. Officers:
• Generals
• Field Grade officers
• Company Grade officers
2. Forward Observers
3. Crew Served Weaponry:
• Heavy Machine Guns
• Artillery Batteries
• Mortar Crews
4. Non Commissioned Officers
5. Radiomen

Targets of High Value in Paintball:

1. Generals
2. Tank Crewman (if there are tanks)
3. Um…. Yeah… that’s all I can think of...

The problem with selecting high value targets in a scenario paintball game is, there are very few. The vast majority of players play independently, not under any command and they do what they want. What officers and team captains there are do not look any different than any other players.

The Sniper fires at targets from beyond the range of return fire by the standard infantry weapons, or from distances that were beyond the training of the normal infantryman.

As you can see from the diagrams of the Sniper Rifles of the Period in comparison to the standard issue infantry weapons, the sniper rifle always has a great deal more range than infantry weapons, and the sniper has been trained to an accuracy standard that is beyond that of standard infantry training.

This is where sniping in paintball fails. All paintball markers except those equipped with the Flatline or Apex systems fire the same distance, around 25 yards or 75 feet. The Flatline will reach ranges of up to 150 ft, but because the ball loses velocity at the same rate as a normal paintball, the chances of getting a break, or a single accurate shot at those ranges are close to zero.

The sniper uses a single accurate shot to take his targets down.

The ammunition expended to kill ratio of a sniper in Vietnam was 1.7 rounds per kill. The average infantryman expended 50,000 rounds per confirmed kill.

It is possible to take targets down with a single shot in paintball. However it is near impossible to eliminate a target with a single shot from beyond the effective range of return fire by the enemy.

A sniper uses camouflage and concealment to hide himself from his enemies to eliminate his targets.

No qualms with this, it can be done. Most every scenario paintball player does it. Using camouflage doe not make you sniper.

Now as you can see there are several places where sniping fails in paintball. Now look at the definition of a Sharpshooter:

“A sharpshooter… is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert

Ok, this looks a little more feasible in the game of paintball than the sniper definition doesn’t it?

For paintball purposes we can strike rifleman, because there are no rifles in paintball.

“who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

This sounds feasible. The definition of a sniper that Spec Ops puts forth is one of an “ambush player” that fires from concealment, using camouflage. The problem with the Spec Ops definition of a sniper is that it perfectly describes the definition of a sharpshooter in a military sense.

So we will set forth the definition of a Sharpshooter in paintball. This is what most of you would call a Sniper in paintball.

A sharpshooter takes shots from concealment, shoots at targets as the opportunity arises, and uses a marker that has the same range as everyone else’s. This is not a Sniper. This is a sharpshooter. You will never be a sniper in paintball simple ballistics prevent this from ever happening.

The fact of the matter is if you think you are a sniper in paintball, your terminology is wrong. The definition of a sharpshooter, fits paintball a lot closer that the definition of a sniper. But for those of you who insist that you are still snipers, look at an analogy: You work for a living. Your job is to go to people’s houses and businesses, to pick up their trash and take it to the dump. You drive a Garbage Truck. What would you be called, a Garbage Man, or a Professional Truck Driver?

You would be called a Garbage Man, would you not? As much as you would prefer to be called a Professional Truck Driver, everyone would call you a Garbage Man because it fits what you are doing better than the title Professional Truck Driver does.

The definition of Sharpshooter, or a Designated Marksman fits what you are doing in paintball a whole lot better than Sniper does. Stop fooling yourself.

References:

SNIPER- Adrian Gilbert

One Shot-One Kill- Charles W. Sasser and Craig Roberts

Marine Sniper- Charles Henderson

I hade stupid muzzle flash... always gives away your position to the other army.

Snake6 wrote: There are no such thing as snipers in paintball. All straight barrels shoot the same distance. The only exeptions are the Flatline and the Apex. There is no such thing as muzzle flash in paintball.

What about ninjas?  If there are no snipers then there must be no ninjas because I sniped all of them and then I retired. 

Seriously though, if someone want's to wear a ghille, mislim thier gun, and hide in bush in order to eliminate their targets then let them be.  Don't hate the player, hate the game...

DanSD wrote: Seriously though, if someone want's to wear a ghille, mislim thier gun, and hide in bush in order to eliminate their targets then let them be.  Don't hate the player, hate the game...

But as I said if you would have read my post, wearing a Ghillie and hiding in the Bush does not maek you a Sniper.

I'm not going to get into the sniper debate part of this.  So I'm going to assume that 621 wants to play a marksman/ambush style of paintball and offer the following advice:

• Barrel
• No experience with the Apex
• Based on a lot of Flatline experience I consider the Flatline to be much more effective as a suppressive tool rather than a "sniping" tool
• The nature of the ammunition makes single shot accuracy difficult at the longer ranges the barrel provides
• The flatter trajectory is a distinct advantage when playing in terrain with thick growth-it can allow successful engagement of opponents that can't return fire because overhanging growth prevents arcing of rounds
• Personal recomendation is a J&J (Bigshots are good also, but I prefer them on A5s and J&Js on 98s)
• Sights-I like red dot sights, they are very handy for guaranteeing first shot hits if the dot has been adjusted to the impact point of the marker (assuming the marker is consistent)
• HPA vs. CO2
• CO2 is cheap (as are the tanks) and provides more shots for the weight carried (in good weather)
• HPA provides better consistency year round
• Good consistency is a major factor in accuracy (it's nice to know that the rounds will always go to the same place) 

Or step on one...  But they tend to get startled and shoot you in the neck at point blank range. 

The body has yet to be found...

ok snake i thing you are getting a little too hot headed about the sniper thing. 

For one you can be a sniper in paintball as well as a marksman. the reason is a marksman like u said chooses targets of opptunity, thus in paintball which is pretty much anyone who doesn't see it coming. though a marksman will have a target of value to eliminate, he is most likely to eliminate this value target and anyone who happens to cross the business end of his rifle

While  a sniper, like you said takes out target of value.  which in paintball is a person with the mose experience on the opposing team, the one shouting orders, or someone you just dont like.  he is most likely not to enguage targets that dont c him, or he might chose to, to lure the target of value out into the open.

so as you can c the way i explain it is both can be in the game of paintball. 

sniper621 wrote: ok snake i thing you are getting a little too hot headed about the sniper thing.  For one you can be a sniper in paintball as well as a marksman. the reason is a marksman like u said chooses targets of opptunity, thus in paintball which is pretty much anyone who doesn't see it coming. though a marksman will have a target of value to eliminate, he is most likely to eliminate this value target and anyone who happens to cross the business end of his rifle Exactly. You are tracking perfectly here. While  a sniper, like you said takes out target of value.  which in paintball is a person with the mose experience on the opposing team, the one shouting orders, or someone you just dont like.  he is most likely not to enguage targets that dont c him, or he might chose to, to lure the target of value out into the open. Somone you just dont like doesn't make him a target of high value. Also a sniper enages targets from beyond the effective range of return fire by the enemy, with a single accurate shot. This is physically impossible to do in paintball because, all straight barrels have the same range, and the Flatline/Apex Systems dont have the accuracy at beyond the effective range of return fire. Even if you could get an accurate shot off at 150 with a flatline, the chances of it breaking are slim to none becuase the ball loses velocity at the same rate as a normal ball. The only way to have a ball not lose velocity art the same rate as normal ball would to have it fired with a higher muzzle velocity.  That is illegal in paintball. so as you can c the way i explain it is both can be in the game of paintball.

Therefore I return to my Garbage truck anology.

Snake and warbeak I am not a noob i mostly likely have a better understanding of paintball then both of you    While you seem to be full of your selves from what i have read.  just because a sniper in military terms does not meet what can be physically be achieved in paintball due to the rounds lack of aerodynamics.  Which it is not the shape of the round that does not make it aerodynamic while it does play a role, its the liquid inside and it would lose velocity a bit quicker than a normal ball because of the weight of the liquid inside the paintball.  It does not mean a person cannot be a sniper in paintball.  it called doing what you can with what you got.   

Jedijak to answer your question i really dont have a good answer except when i got into paintball and explained to the person who sold me the gun he understood what i was getting at even though the qualities of a sniper in military terms dont dont quite match up with the capabilitys of todays paintball products.

So to answer your question is just a word i use that everybody understands  and understands the qualities that i am tryign to add in my paintball playing

warbeak

I have no intrest at all i playing PSP Xball circuit i will answer this question the best way i can from what i remember 15 bps cap,as long as the first 3 shots are true semi auto and as long as it stops firing when the trigger is fully realeased from what i can remember unless it has been update with in the last few years

extends hand back

warbeak

ok now that we are on the level could you suggest what type of barrel i should use since you now know what position i enjoy playing, ne other upgrades you want to throw in will help too

thanks

cool  now here is the next quetion can you suggest a place or places to purchase this stuff

and what size barrel