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Hammerhead Barrel Review...

Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Upgrades and Customizing
Forum Description: Trick it out!
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=149933
Printed Date: 19 December 2025 at 12:22pm
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Topic: Hammerhead Barrel Review...
Posted By: steers
Subject: Hammerhead Barrel Review...
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 3:11pm
Hey guys, I'm new to this forum, but not to paintball. I've played for almost 5 years and presently with a team located in Winnsboro, South Carolina. I wanted to share my knowledge with you from what I've learned about the Hammerhead barrel.
 
Enjoy!
 
 
Interested in the Hammerhead?







In this thread, I will post a review of the Battle Stikxx, of the many Rifled barrels made by Hammerhead. My intention in this review is to simply give you all that I have observed in the last 3 weeks of testing. Please take note that I am not here to cut-down any other barrels out there and have respect for everyone's personal preference. I will simply provide you the facts for the sole purpose of you making a good decision when the day comes that you want a better barrel.

************************************************** ********
A couple of months back I began to ask questions about the Hammerhead Barrel System. It made sense to me when I first heard about it and learned how worked that a rotating paintball would be more accurate vs. a paintball being shot with out rotation. But being that paintball is a fairly expensive sport and I'm not made of money, I didn't want to buy another barrel that was expensive, advertised (like every other barrel) to be accurate, and in the end took endless tweaking to get balls shooting straight –but not super accurate. Receiving positive feedback from Rembrandt, Little Ho, and jhardy66 concerning the Hammerhead, I figured that it was worth a try and being at the time I managed to get a couple things sold and I had the money to go for it.

So I got a hold of Robert Judson with Hammerhead and asked about the barrels and how they worked. Even while hearing good things, I was very skeptical about buying something that was advertised and said to be very accurate when almost every barrel on the market is advertised that way. One thing that impressed me was that I spent about 20 minutes on the phone with Robert as he walked me through how the barrel worked and what it should do that other barrels would not. It made sense to me and I was pretty sure that it would work, but still, I had to try to believe it. I thought that the 12in. Battle Stikxx would be a good barrel to start with so I got a Hammerhead kit containing one 12in. Battle Stikxx barrel, 5 fins (bore seizers), Lithium Grease Paint, and a stainless steel Hammerhead bore sizing kit. Off the bat, I was impressed with how important the matching of paint to barrel was along with the rifled inside of the barrel. Another thing I noticed was the the threading for the bore seizers were extremely tight. I asked Robert what the purpose of the threading was, he said that it was twice as small as regular aluminum bore sizing kits and that it matches the bore to the barrel better giving it an almost perfect match which would add increased accuracy

On Saturday, January 28th, I went with Pain-Cell to Saluda Paintball located in Honae Path. There, I extensively tested the accuracy of the barrel. Saluda Paintball was based right next to the Saluda River. The Saluda River had targets like rocks and trees that were as far as 200+ feet. In shooting the Hammerhead using a VF-Tactical Auto-Cocker with a Qloader and shooting Engage and Nightmare paint I was able to accurately hit rocks no less than 200 ft. with almost perfect accuracy. When shooting at the targets, the paintballs were hitting the splats made on the targets, this continued as long as I was shooting with the exception of a few rounds. The shot grouping was incredibly tight. I was completely astounded when I participated in a speedball tournament with 2 friends and was able to shoot 5 rounds and 3 of them hit my opponent just barely sticking out of a bunker. Spyderman, a member of Carolina Pain was helpful in helping me test this barrel. He assisted me as I walked 150-175 ft. away from him and allowed him to shoot me with the hammerhead to see for my self just how accurate it was. He shot 15 rounds at me with 7 rounds hitting me with the other rounds missing by inches -infact, I did move my stance a little to avoid getting hit so technically I should have been hit closer to 11 times. He then broke a paintball inside of the barrel and continued to fire in order to test the "self-cleaning" feature. The rounds were very inaccurate and few came close to me. Later on it was argued that nightmare and engage had very thick paint.

I also used my Auto-Cocker pump with the Hammerhead and compared it with my 16in. old school Freak Parts barrel which was accurate and quiet. The Hammerhead was just as accurate with the pump as it was with the VF-Tactical but was loud in comparison to the Freak Parts barrel. The accuracy of the Freak Parts barrel did not come to be as accurate as the Hammerhead. The extended distance that the hammerhead gave clearly outmatched the Freak Parts.

I tested the Hammerhead in rainy weather for 2 days. Testing in rainy weather, the Hammerhead did well, the self-cleaning in the barrel took care of water inside; it didn't disrupt its performance in accuracy and distance. Remembering the keep the barrel down helps a lot when playing in the rain. Windy weather did not affect the performance of the Hammerhead considerably, but it did make the paint fly a bit to the side. The Quality of paint is not as important as I thought it would be. I shot Draxus, Engage, Nightmare, Marbalizer, PMI, and even Wal-Mart paint and all shot well with the Hammerhead. When it comes to chopping a ball, I’ve found that it mainly depends on what kind of paint you using, if it is thick paint, you will have trouble self-cleaning the barrel and will probably need a swab, if you have thin paint, it is easier to self-clean with a few shots and your back to normal.

One thing that did get my attention is that as a result of the paint rotating through the air, it makes a very intimidating swooshing sound as it flies past your head. At first I thought that the gun was shooting hot when Spyderman was shooting at me, but it turns out that as the ball rotates, it creates a tornado like cone that drags behind it. It’s almost the same idea as a bullet. The science of the barrel with its function and the way the air is reacting to the paintball as it leaves the barrel the air is swooshing as the paintball travels through the air. Also, one thing that I’ve learned about the hammerhead is that it is a very unique barrel. As such, it has been made to fire paintballs no higher than 385fps. Any higher and the paintballs would break. This is not a bad thing, being that at 280fps. The ball goes farther and straighter than a normal aluminum barrel would.

In Conclusion:

After testing the barrel out for 4 play-days and 5 shooting days, I overall consider this barrel to be superior in accuracy and distance combined when compared to any other barrel system. It’s accuracy is superb and the paint goes straight on. Being a newly born pump player, accuracy is one of the most important things to have and the Hammerhead is the best that I have used. For accuracy I give the Hammerhead a 10 out of 10 The Hammerhead is not the quietest out there but is not the loudest either. For noise, I give Hammerhead a 6 out of 10. Self-Cleaning again, depends on your paint. For self-cleaning I give the Hammerhead a 6 out of 10.

After using this barrel, It’s become my favorite. It has rarely chopped for me in using Draxus, Marbalizer, Engage, Nightmare, PMI, and even Wal-Mart paints and has served me well on the field. I highly recommend this barrel to anyone who’s main desire for their marker is to have accuracy.


For more information pertaining to the Hammerhead Barrels feel free to visit their site.

http://www.hammerheadpaintball.com/ - www.hammerheadpaintball.com

If you have any comments/complaints/recommendations/additions/subtractions go ahead and place them here.

Thanks,

Ben 'Steers' Bowens


-------------
Captain of Team Ballbusters
Sponsored by Qloader




Replies:
Posted By: oreomann33
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 3:14pm
People that will read that: 0

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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 3:18pm
I'm going to guess this is not a review from just "some user" and more than likely from an employee

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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.


Posted By: Dazed
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 3:19pm
Hmmm, aren't you supposed to post for a few months and gain our trust before attempting product placement for the company you work for?


Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 3:21pm

The thought did occur to me, mbro.

But if so, it is unlawful and misleading advertising.  Notice the part where he says the Hammerhead got more distance than the Freak...

So, in the event that this is advertising (in violation of forum policy), I will leave it up just so people can see how some manufacturers will lie to sell product.

On the other hand, if this guy is not affiliated with Hammerhead, then it is just another user review, which you can judge on its own merits.



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[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg">


Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 3:28pm
I would read that... but its too long

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl


Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum


Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

The thought did occur to me, mbro.


But if so, it is unlawful and misleading advertising.  Notice the part where he says the Hammerhead got more distance than the Freak...


So, in the event that this is advertising (in violation of forum policy), I will leave it up just so people can see how some manufacturers will lie to sell product.


On the other hand, if this guy is not affiliated with Hammerhead, then it is just another user review, which you can judge on its own merits.

Seems a bit over the top and long winded for just another user review.

-------------

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.


Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 3:57pm
I read it. It's more or less in line with what I've read elsewhere...

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"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 4:03pm
Hey steers, welcome to the forum. We really need someone else on here who spews uncontrollable amounts of BS technical info out of his rear end. We simply don't have enough of you people. The Hammerhead adds range even though that's impossible due to the laws of physics??? Wow, I must go out and buy one of these! They defy gravity! Can it travel through time as well?

Go back to your company and tell them everyone's had it with you all. Hammerhead barrels are a gimmick and they're overpriced. Rifling has been proven to have no positive effect on paintballs. It's sick that you people pray on innocent noobs who don't know any better. I hope your crappy company goes out of business.   

-------------
MIDN 2/C, US Navy

LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II


Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

Seems a bit over the top and long winded for just another user review.


Sponsorship maybe? If he isnt an employee, then he is either bored, copy and pasted that from somewher else, or is sponsored by the company.

I know sponsorship has caused me to go through extra lengths to make a product seemd good, whether or not it was better on on the same level as another product.


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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 4:38pm

Originally posted by warbeak2099 warbeak2099 wrote:

Hey steers, welcome to the forum. We really need someone else on here who spews uncontrollable amounts of BS technical info out of his rear end. We simply don't have enough of you people. The Hammerhead adds range even though that's impossible due to the laws of physics??? Wow, I must go out and buy one of these! They defy gravity! Can it travel through time as well? 

 

hey now, we all know that only a super chromium barrel can travel through time....and since the star system got revamped, looks like a lot of new plats are gonna be traveling through time and defying physics

 



Posted By: steers
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 4:45pm

Originally posted by warbeak2099 warbeak2099 wrote:

Hey steers, welcome to the forum. We really need someone else on here who spews uncontrollable amounts of BS technical info out of his rear end. We simply don't have enough of you people. The Hammerhead adds range even though that's impossible due to the laws of physics??? Wow, I must go out and buy one of these! They defy gravity! Can it travel through time as well?

Go back to your company and tell them everyone's had it with you all. Hammerhead barrels are a gimmick and they're overpriced. Rifling has been proven to have no positive effect on paintballs. It's sick that you people pray on innocent noobs who don't know any better. I hope your crappy company goes out of business.   

 

 

 

Hey man,

 

thanks for the warm welcome to the forum. I've been visiting this site for some time, but have just been to lazy to register. To those who took the time to insult my review and myself, no harm no foul. I do not work for Hammerhead nor am I sponcored by them right now.

I'm just simply sharing a good barrel that I found with y'all. It's well worth the money and I'm very happy with it's performance. Like you, I'm not made of money, and I actually got this barrel with the hope of buying a good quality barrel that I can share with you. I'm sorry for your misunderstanding.



-------------
Captain of Team Ballbusters
Sponsored by Qloader



Posted By: steers
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 4:52pm

I would also respectfully like to say that I'm dissapointed with the first responces I've gotten on this site. Tippmann is one of the biggest names in paintball and here are the ambassadors to the forum. All though your thoughts and reasoning is good, insulting me, my review, and the hammerhead company, -who is completely innocent. (all though I did let them know that I was putting the review up).

Again, I'm not sponcored by them nor do I work for them. I'm a very experienced player when It comes to paintball and I don't appreciate these comments. Also, if the head of hammerhead were standing in front of you right now, could you say the same BS that you just said (without proper knowledge of the review or myself?)

 

With respect



-------------
Captain of Team Ballbusters
Sponsored by Qloader



Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 4:56pm
Well to the internet, dude. Prepare to take more flak. It's jsut a way of life around here. FWIW, your review jives with PBreview.com for the most part, so I believe you.

-------------
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 4:56pm
Yawn, anything else you want to cry about?

-------------

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.


Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 4:57pm
Lol, I was being sarcastic. That entire review was the biggest BS I've ever read.

No barrel shoots farther than another except for the apex and flatline. The hammerhead does not shoot farther than any other barrel at the same velocity.

No barrel will shoot well with water in the barrel. Even if it's teflon coated, it will still make some impression on the accuracy.

No barrel will shoot straight in heavily windy conditions.

Rifling does not work for paintball.

So basically you're full of it.      

Hammerheads have already been proven to be gimmicks. They are extremely expensive too. No one believes you, so cut it out. I say again, stop praying on noobs who don't know any better.

-------------
MIDN 2/C, US Navy

LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II


Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 5:04pm

Well, guys, I also have a Hammerhead kit. Though I also use an Apex I find that the Hammerhead is on my marker most of the time on our 140 ft long speedball fields.

The barrel is very accurate, but I do not find that it shoots clean even with thin paint. After a ball break it takes 20 to 30 shots before some semblance of accuracy returns. Even at that it does not go back to what it is when clean.

I find that larger diameter paint, paint that actually engages the top of the rifling lands, is more consistent shot to shot than medium to small diameter paint. I also find that paintballs with thicker paint are more consistent.

As for extended range. There is SOME debate as to the improved drag situation of a spinning ball projectile. There is some evidence that a round ball spinning on the axis of its trajectory has ever so slight less wind resistance than a non-spinning ball projectile.

Now the spin imparts gyroscopic stability even at the relatively low velocity of a paintball. So there is certainly potential for a rifled paintball barrel to be more accurate than a smooth bore. (Yes, even with a liquid filled paintball!) If spin made no difference on the paintball then the Flatline and the Apex would not shoot curved/flat trajectories.

I have done some accuracy testing with the Hammerhead as I have with the Flatline and the Apex. A search will probably turn up that/those posts. Since so many have expressed the opinion that the original post was long winded, I won't impose upon the group my penchant for informational bloviation.



Posted By: steers
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Bruce A. Frank Bruce A. Frank wrote:

Well, guys, I also have a Hammerhead kit. Though I also use an Apex I find that the Hammerhead is on my marker most of the time on our 140 ft long speedball fields.

The barrel is very accurate, but I do not find that it shoots clean even with thin paint. After a ball break it takes 20 to 30 shots before some semblance of accuracy returns. Even at that it does not go back to what it is when clean.

I find that larger diameter paint, paint that actually engages the top of the rifling lands, is more consistent shot to shot than medium to small diameter paint. I also find that paintballs with thicker paint are more consistent.

As for extended range. There is SOME debate as to the improved drag situation of a spinning ball projectile. There is some evidence that a round ball spinning on the axis of its trajectory has ever so slight less wind resistance than a non-spinning ball projectile.

Now the spin imparts gyroscopic stability even at the relatively low velocity of a paintball. So there is certainly potential for a rifled paintball barrel to be more accurate than a smooth bore. (Yes, even with a liquid filled paintball!)

I have done some accuracy testing with the Hammerhead as I have with the Flatline and the Apex. A search will probably turn up that/those posts. Since so many have expressed the opinion that the original post was long winded, I won't impose upon the group my penchant for informational bloviation.

 

 

thanks for your input.

 

Before people come up and start being stupid

 

ask yourself these questions:

 

Do you sound arrogant in your posting when other people read it? -your character flaw

Have you used the product thorougly and know what your talking about?

How experienced of a player are you?

I'm not trying to step on buttons but ya'll have stepped on mine. You all sound like you have nothing better to do than mess with me with out asking questions.



-------------
Captain of Team Ballbusters
Sponsored by Qloader



Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 5:18pm

Considered reviews are always welcome, Bruce.  We just try to draw the line at unsupported puffery.

Yes, there is some debate about the possible effects of axis-of-travel rotation on a paintball.  I have an ongoing discussion on the subject with some of my engineer/scientist friends.  Our theoretical conclusions are that there could not be a meaningful drag reduction (unlike transverse rotation), but that there may be some discussion on the potential gyroscopic effects, which might improve flight consistency but not distance.

Overall, though, we question the extent to which a barrel is able to impart meaningful axis-of-travel rotation to begin with.  Paintball barrels don't grab a ball as tightly as a rifle barrel, for instance.

But, theoretical considerations aside, any barrel that claims "rifling" has a serious uphill battle ahead - simply because we have all read and heard about "rifled" barrels over the years that time after time turned out to be average at best, and quite inferior at worst.

To the original poster - if you are not affiliated with Hammerhead, you are of course welcome to post your thoughts on the barrel.  That does not, however, protect you from the counter-opinions of other members.  You claim to have lurked here for a while - your initial and follow-up posts lead me to doubt that claim, and so I encourage you to read all the stickies in the forums, and read some of the other topical discussions.  You will find that the reactions to your initial post were quite predictable.  Had you lurked for a while, you would also have known that we are frequently inundated by spam-advertisers whose posts look a lot like yours.  You would also have known not to get offended at the responses.  I encourage you to develop a slightly thicker skin and to stick around.

That said, welcome to the forum.



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[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg">


Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by steers steers wrote:

[QUOTE=Bruce A. Frank]

 

 

 

thanks for your input.

 

Before people come up and start being stupid

 

ask yourself these questions:

 

Do you sound arrogant in your posting when other people read it? -your character flaw

Have you used the product thorougly and know what your talking about?

How experienced of a player are you?

I'm not trying to step on buttons but ya'll have stepped on mine. You all sound like you have nothing better to do than mess with me with out asking questions.

yes, some of us do sound arrogant, and like myself are proud of it in a twisted sort of way. flaws arent necesarily bad, what was the last DECENT movie you saw where all the characters were perfect and had zero flaws. second, mabye they have used this equipment for a while and found it to be the way they claim. and third, i wouldnt really doubt the experience of the people here, even though some dont play anymore, theyve still got more experience than a lot of people....and ooo we "messed" with you without asking questions.....we joke around a lot here....get used to it



Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 6:04pm
I'm only arrogant because I've been playing for over 6 years and I've read countless articles that have proved how rifling is a hype tactic. The same thing with longer barrels, different guns having different accuracies, etc. Anyone who's been playing and reading for a while knows it's all false.

Usually, the people who claim otherwise do so by doing tests in their backyards. Hardly accurate. The engineers like Tom Kaye who prove them wrong do the testing in controlled scientific conditions and do so using the empirical method. The fact is, physics does not allow putting spin on a paintball to work. it's been tested and disproved. I hate when people insist that they know it works when they don't have an engineering degree and haven't conducted the tests using the empirical method or with correct equipment.

When Warpig tests these theories, they always seem to prove the hypsters wrong. But all you people don't listen. Instead, you go in your backyard and shout "Aha! I have proven all the engineers wrong!"

Here's the real truth. These Hammerheads will shoot no better than any other good quality barrel kit with the right paint match. They will shoot no farther than any other barrel at the same velocity either. It just isn't possible according to PROVEN SCIENCE. Oh, but that's right. You don't have any engineering degree, but you know a helluva lot more than Tom Kaye and the Warpig engineers. That's why we act arrogant and nasty. Because you people are ridiculous.

EDIT: Here's another thing to consider. These barrels have control bores of about 1 inch long. It's been (again, scientifically) proven that a 6-8" control bore is needed for a paintball to gain maximum acceleration. This means that below the threshold length of 6", the ball will be less accurate and travel a shorter distance. Huh, makes you think.

Also, the 3 bore kits are all over $150. You can get a Powerlyte Scepter kit for $99 on PL's website. The Scepter doesn't use the erroneous rifling crap and it's got a control bore of about 7". Superior quality for less money. I myself have a older model Kaner kit and love it. However, it's cocker threaded only. If I still had my Tippmann, I'd go with the PL Scepter.

-------------
MIDN 2/C, US Navy

LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II


Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 6:32pm

Hey, let's get these quotes straightened out. My name's at the head of the "quote" and nothing in  the quote was mine.

Originally posted by GI JOES SON GI JOES SON wrote:

Originally posted by steers steers wrote:

[QUOTE=Bruce A. Frank]

 

 

 

thanks for your input.

 

Before people come up and start being stupid

 

ask yourself these questions:

 

Do you sound arrogant in your posting when other people read it? -your character flaw

Have you used the product thorougly and know what your talking about?

How experienced of a player are you?

I'm not trying to step on buttons but ya'll have stepped on mine. You all sound like you have nothing better to do than mess with me with out asking questions.

yes, some of us do sound arrogant, and like myself are proud of it in a twisted sort of way. flaws arent necesarily bad, what was the last DECENT movie you saw where all the characters were perfect and had zero flaws. second, mabye they have used this equipment for a while and found it to be the way they claim. and third, i wouldnt really doubt the experience of the people here, even though some dont play anymore, theyve still got more experience than a lot of people....and ooo we "messed" with you without asking questions.....we joke around a lot here....get used to it



Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 7:37pm

Originally posted by warbeak2099 warbeak2099 wrote:

...different guns having different accuracies, etc. Anyone who's been playing and reading for a while knows it's all false.

I generally agree with your post, but I have to disagree with this.  It is rather obvious that some gun mechanisms are inherently more consistent (=accurate) than other mechanisms.  Most nicer electros, for instance, rely on carefully regulated and electronically controlled pneumatics to control the pressure delivered to the paintball.  Blowbacks rely on springs (which vary in consistency) to control the valve, and suffer further inconsistencies from the relative randomness of air going in all different directions during the blowback process.

The empirical evidence for this is overwhelming.  Take a stock tippmann and an Angel (for instance), with the same barrel and same paint.  Tippmann will chrono with variance in the 10+ fps range, while the Angel will have less than 5 bps variance.  This translates directly into accuracy.



Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by warbeak2099 warbeak2099 wrote:

EDIT: Here's another thing to consider. These barrels have control bores of about 1 inch long. It's been (again, scientifically) proven that a 6-8" control bore is needed for a paintball to gain maximum acceleration. This means that below the threshold length of 6", the ball will be less accurate and travel a shorter distance. Huh, makes you think.


First, I feel like pointing out that tom Kaye did no actual testing, he simply theorized that riffling would have no effect.

Second, The ball wont travel a shorter distance, more air is simply required to get it moving fast enough to travel as far as a longer barrel might make it.


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Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 8:14pm
Clark Kent:

No it does not. Shot to shot consistancy is different from accuracy. If you shoot a Tippmann and an Angel at the same velocity, with the same barrel, the same paint, clamped down over a chrony, the ACCURACY will be the same. I'm talking about shot groupings, not velocity. If you fire with like 5 seconds between shots, consistancy shouldn't interfere with the accuracy. They are seperate my friend. I can see how you may be led astray by advertising, but accuracy and consistancy are very different. Accuracy determines if the ball goes straight or not. Consistancy determines if the ball goes the same distance each shot. It has nothing to do with the linear path of the ball. So, no, no gun is more accurate than the other. More consistant? Yes.

-------------
MIDN 2/C, US Navy

LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II


Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Gatyr Gatyr wrote:


First, I feel like pointing out that tom Kaye did no actual testing, he simply theorized that riffling would have no effect.

Second, The ball wont travel a shorter distance, more air is simply
required to get it moving fast enough to travel as far as a longer
barrel might make it.


Yes, he did do testing, allong with other techs such as the ones who work with warpig. I'm sorry, TK did testing on barrel length, bore matching, etc. You're right. He did make his hypothesis based off of data and findings of other techs. He basically analyzed the data they collected. However, no matter who analyzes the data that these tests produce, it always comes to the same conclusion. Rifling does nothing.

And the length of the control bore does determine the flight path of the ball. It is the "guide" section so to speak. The ball has less guidance with a shorter control bore.

-------------
MIDN 2/C, US Navy

LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II


Posted By: The_GOAT
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 8:22pm

ok, so i didnt read the review but for those of you that did

did it have perfect speelling?  If it did it was probubly edited to be a manufactuerers review

or a crazy person who reads his post that is like a book mulitple times

anyone google his name?



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SP Vision Imp w/ ALL NDZ internals, CP flame drop w/ on/off, Freak-AA tip, lowrise feedneck, NDZ Pro-Mag trigger, tapeworm, NDZ lpr cap, NDZ ti. bolt pin, maybe thats it?
EggII
88/4500 Crossfire


Posted By: JediJak
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by warbeak2099 warbeak2099 wrote:

Clark Kent:

No it does not. Shot to shot consistancy is different from accuracy. If you shoot a Tippmann and an Angel at the same velocity, with the same barrel, the same paint, clamped down over a chrony, the ACCURACY will be the same. I'm talking about shot groupings, not velocity. If you fire with like 5 seconds between shots, consistancy shouldn't interfere with the accuracy. They are seperate my friend. I can see how you may be led astray by advertising, but accuracy and consistancy are very different. Accuracy determines if the ball goes straight or not. Consistancy determines if the ball goes the same distance each shot. It has nothing to do with the linear path of the ball. So, no, no gun is more accurate than the other. More consistant? Yes.


shot to shot consistency is probably the most important part of accuracy. think about what velocity does to a ball; if i pitch a baseball at like 5mph to someone, without arcing, does ball get to them? no. but if i pitch it say 60mph, without arching, yes it does

tho i believe this review is bs, clark is correct in what he says


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Tippmann Chameleon M98

Upgrades:

14in. Teardrop Barrel
GTA Expansion Chamber
20oz. Co2
Pollished Internals
Tape Mod
Spring Mod

Pic:
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tippy3qe.jpg


Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by JediJak JediJak wrote:

 
shot to shot consistency is probably the most important part of accuracy. think about what velocity does to a ball; if i pitch a baseball at like 5mph to someone, without arcing, does ball get to them? no. but if i pitch it say 60mph, without arching, yes it does

tho i believe this review is bs, clark is correct in what he says


Not the right argument. You are correct in thinking clark is correct, but for the wrong reason, though you have the right idea now that I think abot it. You just didnt elaborate well enough. Oops.

Think of it like this. You shoot a ball at someone. They are far enough away that you need an arc to get the ball there. Now, the added 10 fps will cause the ball to go farther, and miss the target because it will simply go over the object.

same as if the ball were to slow down 10 fps. It wont make it to the target.

If the fps fluctuation was less dramatic, then the balls would fly closer to the same distance, and be closer to the target, and be more accurate.

Consitency = accuracy.


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Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 8:50pm
Omg, talking to ignorant people is like talking to an ant.

Look, I'm talking about the linear flight path of the ball, not how far the ball goes. Consistancy affects range, not whether the ball goes STRAIGHT or not. If you give a gun 5-10sec to recharge between shots, each shot will most likely go the same range. Unless of course the gun is horribly inconsistant, but I don't think any gun is that bad. This is how you factor consistancy out of accuracy. Accuracy by itself is whether the ball flies straight or not. The gun does not affect this. The barrel and paint do affect accuracy though.

Clark was mistaken. You can't lump all of this into the same category. That's the first mistake physics students make. Just like speed and velocity are not the same thing. Velocity is mass times acceleration and speed is length multiplied by time. Get what I'm saying? Consistancy and accuracy are two seperate variables and they govern two seperate vectors when you're talking about physics. And this is exactly a physics problem.

Please don't use logic to solve this problem. This requires equations that have been proven by physicists a long time ago. I'm sick of paintballers posting on forums that they are right and Newton is an idiot. By saying that the consistancy and accuracy of a moving object toward it's destination are the same, you are basically saying that all the physicists and engineers who have been using the two as seperate variables are wrong. BTW, that's all of the physicists and engineers. Including the engineers who engineer Tippmanns and all other paintball markers.

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MIDN 2/C, US Navy

LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II


Posted By: Mehs
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 9:00pm
Ignore the shill, it's his day job to go from paintball forum to paintball forum to advertise his product, he's most likely paid to do this.  It really doesn't work that well.


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[IMG]http://i27.tinypic.com/1538fbc.jpg">
Squeeze Box


Posted By: Scotchbroth
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 9:10pm
Warbeak: It is clear to everyone here that you are wrong. Accuracy is being able to determine where your ball will land or hit it's target. If the forces acting on the ball are different from shot to shot then the outcome will be unpredictable = less accurate as the balls will not land in the same place. go and ask any physicist and they will slap you for you insults to science.
Giving a gun 10 secs between shots? 0.1 BPS you will be PH33R3d then.


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Posted By: JediJak
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by warbeak2099 warbeak2099 wrote:

Omg, talking to ignorant people is like talking to an ant.

Look, I'm talking about the linear flight path of the ball, not how far the ball goes. Consistancy affects range, not whether the ball goes STRAIGHT or not. If you give a gun 5-10sec to recharge between shots, each shot will most likely go the same range. Unless of course the gun is horribly inconsistant, but I don't think any gun is that bad. This is how you factor consistancy out of accuracy. Accuracy by itself is whether the ball flies straight or not. The gun does not affect this. The barrel and paint do affect accuracy though.

Clark was mistaken. You can't lump all of this into the same category. That's the first mistake physics students make. Just like speed and velocity are not the same thing. Velocity is mass times acceleration and speed is length multiplied by time. Get what I'm saying? Consistancy and accuracy are two seperate variables and they govern two seperate vectors when you're talking about physics. And this is exactly a physics problem.

Please don't use logic to solve this problem. This requires equations that have been proven by physicists a long time ago. I'm sick of paintballers posting on forums that they are right and Newton is an idiot. By saying that the consistancy and accuracy of a moving object toward it's destination are the same, you are basically saying that all the physicists and engineers who have been using the two as seperate variables are wrong. BTW, that's all of the physicists and engineers. Including the engineers who engineer Tippmanns and all other paintball markers.


i am an engineering major. If u knew what u were talking about you would know that velocity is the rate of change of position of an object relative to a STRAIGHT LINE. so consistency of velocity is the consistency of accuracy. accuracy is the conformation to a set measure or standard such as what u sight on. If the ball is divergent from where ur standard (sight) by being above or below which the fps of a ball effects.

also using logic is perhaps the most important function of a physicist or engineer. if u have ever read any physics book even on the most elementary level u would learn that all sience is logic which is then applied and tested. such as galleio logically deducing why the earth circles the sun instead of the other way around. he was never able to fly into space and see it yet he logically concluded on what evidence he had that it did.


-------------
Tippmann Chameleon M98

Upgrades:

14in. Teardrop Barrel
GTA Expansion Chamber
20oz. Co2
Pollished Internals
Tape Mod
Spring Mod

Pic:
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tippy3qe.jpg


Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 9:20pm
No, science is making observations, collecting data on those observations, and analyzing the data to make conclusions.

Proposing opinions on something that you've never seen is called philosophy.

I'm really starting sick of the little kids on this forum making like they know more about the laws of physics than professionals like Tom Kaye and the rest of the paintball engineers who have already proven that different guns do not possess different degrees of accuracy.

Consistancy again affects how far the ball will go each shot.

Accuracy affects whether or not the ball will fly straight.

You learn that difference in any basic physics class. To be a physics major and not understand that is disgusting.

Alright, I'm out of this thread. Do not pm me or email me about any of this. I am really starting to get worried about the "knowledge" of paintballers on this forum and others. Go search on pbnation and you'll find this exact same kind of thread. All of the engineers are telling the little kiddies that accuracy and consistancy are different. But not, some idiot in his backyard is smarter than professional techs who do this for a living.

I'm sick of this mindset. It's a microchosm of modern America. I'm not going to waste my time trying to argue in this thread anymore. It is clear that ignorance and stubborness has taken over.

I don't wish to be mean to anyone. I don't like fighting. If I stay here any longer I'm probably going to do something to get banned. And that would be bad. I am here to help members of this forum that want to be helped. I'm not here to put people down. I have been led into doing that though. That's why I'm bowing out.

Good day to you all, and happy balling.    

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MIDN 2/C, US Navy

LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II


Posted By: PlentifulBalls
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 9:27pm
WTH is paintball?

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sporx wrote:
well...ya i prolly will be a virgin till i'm at least 30.


Posted By: Atreyu
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by steers steers wrote:

Like you, I'm not made of money

Whats that supposed to mean?

Go masturbate with a razorblade



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If you wanna serve up above or be a King down below with us your welcome the City where your future is set forever.


Posted By: JediJak
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by warbeak2099 warbeak2099 wrote:

No, science is making observations, collecting data on those observations, and analyzing the data to make conclusions.
Wrong so, so, wrong.

Proposing opinions on something that you've never seen is called philosophy.
I am not stating opinions, i am stating that u are very wrong about ur about terminology u are using. you are saying that consitency has nothing to do with accuracy which is very incorect any person who has simply tossed an object to another person should understand this.

I'm really starting sick of the little kids on this forum making like they know more about the laws of physics than professionals like Tom Kaye and the rest of the paintball engineers who have already proven that different guns do not possess different degrees of accuracy.
I have seen only a little of Tom Kayes work but i highly doubt that he has ever said any such thing. if someone has this information i would like to see it

Consistancy again affects how far the ball will go each shot.
And therefore affects where it will land.

Accuracy affects whether or not the ball will fly straight.
Accuracy is not a force and therefore affects nothing. How straight the ball flies affects what the accuracy of the shot will be.

You learn that difference in any basic physics class. To be a physics major and not understand that is disgusting.
U are using terminology u do not understand and sound and saying there is a difference between things that are only different words for the same thing.

Alright, I'm out of this thread. Do not pm me or email me about any of this. I am really starting to get worried about the "knowledge" of paintballers on this forum and others. Go search on pbnation and you'll find this exact same kind of thread. All of the engineers are telling the little kiddies that accuracy and consistancy are different. But not, some idiot in his backyard is smarter than professional techs who do this for a living.


I'm sick of this mindset. It's a microchosm of modern America. I'm not going to waste my time trying to argue in this thread anymore. It is clear that ignorance and stubborness has taken over.
You are the only one who is being stubborn and are only reiterating your opinions again and again. all that you are saying is redundant.

I don't wish to be mean to anyone. I don't like fighting. If I stay here any longer I'm probably going to do something to get banned. And that would be bad. I am here to help members of this forum that want to be helped. I'm not here to put people down. I have been led into doing that though. That's why I'm bowing out.
You should be able to carry on a discussion without fighting, putting people down, or getting yourself banned from the forum.

Good day to you all, and happy balling.   


-------------
Tippmann Chameleon M98

Upgrades:

14in. Teardrop Barrel
GTA Expansion Chamber
20oz. Co2
Pollished Internals
Tape Mod
Spring Mod

Pic:
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tippy3qe.jpg


Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 10:17pm

sorry bout that bruce, it was something that he quoted you on or something that i took and messed it up when i was cuttin out what you said to get what he had to say....

and in the words of Gunnery SGT Hartman, full metal jacket: only steers and **edited** come from texas private cowboy, and you dont look like a steer to me so that narrows it!



Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 10:18pm

Clark is right.  And so are most people here.  For paintball purposes, consistency = accuracy.

Warbeak is right - if you clamp down any two guns with the same barrel/paint, and fire off a shot from each gun AT THE SAME velocity, they will hit the same spot (environmental variables aside).

But that's the point - THE SAME VELOCITY.  If the velocity is different, the two balls will land in different places.  Warbeak - paintballs don't travel in a linear path, not even close.  So claiming that consistency affects distance but not trajectory is simply false.  It affects both. 

As a result, if your velocity is different between shots, your shots will hit in different spots.

Clamp down an Angel and a stock Tippmann, same paint/barrel, and fire off a dozen shots from each.  I can promise you that the Angel will have a smaller spread.  This is because the Angel will shoot a dozen shots at almost the same velocity - the Tippmann will have more velocity variation, and that will translate into trajectory variation, which translates into spread.



Posted By: JediJak
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 10:24pm
^^^^^^^^^^^
nice summary!


-------------
Tippmann Chameleon M98

Upgrades:

14in. Teardrop Barrel
GTA Expansion Chamber
20oz. Co2
Pollished Internals
Tape Mod
Spring Mod

Pic:
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tippy3qe.jpg


Posted By: Boss_DJ
Date Posted: 09 February 2006 at 10:26pm
woah...what the hell is paintball?

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