Scary thought
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URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=150996
Printed Date: 03 March 2026 at 5:52am
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Topic: Scary thought
Posted By: reifidom
Subject: Scary thought
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:00pm
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Something just occurred to me sitting here at lunch: Terrorists do not need to sneak a nuclear weapon into the United States. They're already here. The greatest part of the US' nuclear arsenal is in missle silos scattered throughout the midwest, up and down the center of our mainland, buried under cornfields, hills, and other very public land. In the event of nuclear war, these silos would open and launch, but, pending war, they sit and wait.
If a terrorist knew what it took to penetrate a silo and had the know how to extract the core of the warhead, they would have a functioning nuclear weapon within the confines of our borders, and would be a simple drive from a major city. Further, with adequate preparation, the nuke could be prepared to go off at a moments notice, so it wouldn't matter if they were caught. A bomb like that going off anywhere inside the US, in or out of a major city, would cause mass chaos. The trick is knowing what kind of security these places have. There is no resident staff, and very few silos would be visible from the roads. I can't imagine that somebody in charge of this stuff hasn't thought of this by now, but it just occurred to me. Creepy. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: impulse!
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:08pm
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I highly doubt a nuclear missle silo is sitting by itself with no security. ------------- 
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:10pm
| There are alot of factors involved with ICBM warheads, multiple saftey features to prevent this type of thing from happening. The security is amazing. If you want I could go into an in-depth analisys of what it would theoretically take to penertrate such a facility, and what the government reponse would be, and the complex logistics involved. But I really don't feel like going into it right now, maybe in a hour or two when I bored out of my mind. |
Posted By: reifidom
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:13pm
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I'd be curious to know. I can imagine that they must have some fairly involved security, but with the amount of time you'd have to plan it might be possible.
I don't figure it's as easy as I stated above, but the idea seems like something a determined group could pull off. Edit: Ok, I see that the missles only remain in North Dakota and Montana, and that protestors and others have been arrested for trespassing or getting too close. It's good to know that it's not as haphazzard as I'd have originally thought. I'll have to find out more about the silos. And good to know the empty silos are going to good use. :) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/12/07/MN154990.DTL - Retired silo here in Kansas -------------
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Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:20pm
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I don't know specifics, but the silos are very secure.
My dad was assigned to Minuteman silos in the late 60s/early 70s. Long two-person shifts underground... nothing much to do... but I guess it was the perfect duty for one to work on their Masters Degree on the Air Force's dime. A determined group can pull off anything... but in this case, the group that constructed the silo system was determined themselves... and those assigned to defend the silo systems are determined as well. To gain access, one would need a lot of equipment, and a lot of time. Even with the necessary equipment... the time needed to put that equipment to use would not be sufficient to allow entry before multiple security detachments reached your position. Even if the outer defenses were breached... the doors and safeguards from within the silos themselves are substantial. If ever visiting in the Tucson area... you can tour an old [obsolete] Titan silo. Very impressive, and those pre-date current ICBM silos by quite a bit. |
Posted By: reifidom
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:22pm
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I'd love to tour one. I'd imagine it's every bit as impressive as you say. I was thinking it might be possible to dig down and burrow into the side. -------------
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:24pm
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A determined highly trained group of about 50 soldiers armed with heavy weaponry for penetration and perimeter security plus a group of 10-15 missle technicions with the proper equipment might be able to preform a warhead seperation in appoximatly a hour from the time the hatch is popped on the silo. Then you would have to transport the warhead to a secure location to reconfigure the weapon to allow it to be used in a truck-bomb type configuration. The reconfiguration would take anywhere from a day to 2 weeks, depnding on the type of weapon that you are trying to create. But w/e most likely by the time you forced entry into the base and popped the silo hatch there would be a fast reaction force composed of at least a battalion plus Close Air Support Aircraft and Bombers on the way to eliminate you. It is close to impossible to pull off. Theoretically possible, yes. Realistically, No. |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:29pm
one of the most interesting threads in T&O i've seen in a while...  and i would love to tour an old missle silo... would definitely be interesting |
Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:32pm
you also have to remember our own Nuclear Shootdown capabilities, if
one was launched from Montana going to DC or NY, The Armed forces would
pick that up in a matter of seconds, and it would be taken down within
minutes, don't know if that short of a range would need to leave our
atmosphere but I'd rather see some farmland in Ohio obliterated then
see millions of people disappear..  Edit: Nukes, Bombs, etc... I don't think that would work anymore, that's too... Cold Warish, I say if you wanna really cripple America Drop us off a Virus like the one in Terminator 3, Americans are crippled without Electronic-Communications. ------------- 
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Posted By: reifidom
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:36pm
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The launch would be too tricky I'd think. Reconfiguring it to a land based bomb would be more practical and more adaptable.
Also, the aim here would not necessarily be destruction. A nuclear bomb going off anywhere in the US would cause mass panic, whether in a big city or not. The very idea that a nuke made it into our heartland would be more than enough. -------------
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Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:37pm
 They'd know you were coming. Plus, keep in mind, these silos were built to withstand near-direct hits from incoming nuclear warheads. We're talking THICK reinforced construction, and not just on top.
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reifidom wrote:Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:40pm
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A more realistic way to execute a nuclear attack on the US would be to take over a derilcit ICBM facilty in Kakizstan or someplace like fire a old Soviet ICBM. Old ICBMs especially Soviet ones were lacking in safety features like remote detonation and such. That way it would look as if a nuclear attack was being excuted from the former USSR on the US. This would cuase a retalitory attack by the US, which would cause a retalitory strike by all of NATO, which would cuase a relatitory strike by Russia, which would make Isriel attack Iran. Now thats Scary. |
Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 1:47pm
What Nuclear Shootdown capabilities? I know of no such workable system in existance. As of now, they exist only in fictional novels and movies.
Even systems that you may think are workable systems, such as PAC-3 or SM-3, or even the Airborne Laser system in testing... only effective against shorter range tactical ballistics... not incoming ICBMs. GBI that we're pouring tons of cash into has failed consistantly. Basically, if it were ever a scenario where we had incoming MIRVs from an ICBM... say goodbye to whatever they're targeted against. Domestically, I don't foresee a self-targeted launch as a possibility. This would be more of a case of a foreign launched weapon. Much like Snake6's scenario. |
Posted By: amishman89
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 2:04pm
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This scernerio is indeed creepy it is very unlikely to happen. Could be a good story line for a Hollywood movie. I doubt someone could "sneak" in a silo. Very unlikely. ------------- Only Hugh can prevent florist friars. |
Posted By: reifidom
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 2:10pm
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Hmm, a functioning, yet decrepit, missle silo from another country would be a pretty workable alternative, assuming you could work out the launch and targeting. Whatever wasn't automatic that is. The security probably would be a lot less of an issue.
Do we still have systems to auto-lauch retalitory strikes or did that end with the Cold War? I can see how they'd be a deterrent, but in this case it would be a horrible mistake, retalliating against an imagined strike by a nation instead of a terrorist act designed to provoke a massive response. -------------
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 2:25pm
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The Targeting of a Soviet ICBM is auto configured. There were chip-sets that were custom for each missle that dealt with the targeting. Pretty much the Terrorist would have to find a working silo(because most derilict silos have fallen into disrepair, and ope tha tthe silo that they captured was targeted on US, where it doesn't matter because any missle targeted on the US would be cause of an immediate retalatory attack. There was never an Automated response system. All nuclear launches had to ba approved by NCA no matter what. |
Posted By: reifidom
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 2:27pm
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That's good at least. No mutually assured destruction.
I remember an earlier show of Michael Moore's (back when I could still stand him sometimes) when he went to Russia to get a missle directed away from the area where he lived. He wanted it pointed at another city, and was trying to get in to see somebody at the missle site. -------------
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 2:33pm
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Hah! Funny you should mention Mr. Moore.
Not to sidetrack your thread but I am personally more afriad of being locked in the same room with with Moore then a terrorist nuclear attack.  ------------- 
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Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 2:46pm
funny note about ground sensors... i had a buddy who spent time in the seabees. not sure if he was in quam or bosnia at the time but one day he and a group of his fellow enlisted men got bored and started rolling big 150-200lb rocks down the hill next to his base... about 3 mins later a string of M1A1s showed up at the gate locked and loaded ready to whoop some butt... i guess it looked like there was a large group of infentry moving around on the hill and freaked someone out... ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 2:55pm
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Well, what should really concern all of you is that only something like 5% of all shipping containers listed on ship manifests are searched. Thats 95 percent getting into the country all willy nilly and ballywho, and thats not talking about the undeclaired containers..
From these unchecked containers we get sex slave workers, sweathshop workers, a small amount of illeagals, drugs and whatnot. It would be just, stupifyingly easy to get some sort of threat through, be it a bomb or an operator or whatever you want. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors"> 
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Posted By: ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:20pm
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I'm curious if the Discovery Channel or Military Channel has ever taken a tour of one of these silos. Anyone ever seen a tour on TV? ------------- 
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:22pm
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Yeah. Long and tall basicaly, lots of doors.
Theres some guy that bought one a while back, dude lives in it. I think he might use a little EZ-Go golf cart to get around in. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:27pm
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If they could get in and detonate a warhead, they would only succeed in blowing up South Dakota. No big loss. :P ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:47pm
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Ever heard of the plane mounted laser? Its being tested at EDW
(Edwards AF base). Its basically a 747 with a chemical laser on
it that can track and destroy missles within seconds from hundreds of
miles away. It is operational, if a warhead were ever launched
via missle, it would be a good test for the aircraft. |
Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:52pm
The Atlas silos had some above-ground components. More modern silos are completely underground. Atlas's are ancient. Titans are another outdated system. Long since taken out of service, but their setup is closer to that of modern systems. 
For a somewhat interesting tour of one, there's this website: http://triggur.org/silo/ - http://triggur.org/silo/ Another Titan tour: http://www.wetzoollamb.net/tours/titan/titan1.html - http://www.wetzoollamb.net/tours/titan/titan1.html I'd love to tour an old Minuteman facility to see the conditions my dad worked in. Don't feel like traveling to South Dakota though. 
http://www.nps.gov/mimi/ - http://www.nps.gov/mimi/ |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:52pm
| Key word there WGP, tested. It is not operational yet, and they honstly don't know if they will ever get it to work. |
Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:54pm
| And it would have to actually be in the sky when it was needed. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:56pm
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I would so live in a silo. Buy it and fully furnish it. Upolster the walls. Art everywhere. And elevators and multiple golfcarts to get around. And a sound system to play music intervenously throughout the entire structure. Endless fun and mind bending seclusion. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: chronic future
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:56pm
I saw a show on that 747 mounted chemical laser system on the military channel, it looks very promising and well along the way of being operational rather soon. |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:57pm
You would be surprised at how fast a 747 can climb. They could probably have it in the air in 10 minutes, provided it wasn't being worked on or anything. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 3:59pm
------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: chronic future
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 4:01pm
| http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_ABL,,00.html - http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_ABL, ,00.html |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 4:05pm
Everything you see on the Military Channel is not always true. |
Posted By: XenoSabre
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 4:24pm
You would be surprised at how fast an ICBM can travel once launched. I doubt a 747 could intersept it unless it was in the right place at the right time. It would be much more effective to have a satellite mounted Laser System (currently in development, or so I'm told) for this purpose. Besides, these Airborne lasers are designed to take out smaller warheads like cruise missiles and SAMs... they wouldn't be of much use against an ICBM. ------------- [IMG]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f76/Xeno-Sabre/kutaragi.png"> http://xeno-sabre.deviantart.com/ - http://xeno-sabre.deviantart.com/ |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 4:39pm
What makes you think I learned about 747 and aircraft from the military channel? I learned it from books and people. |
Posted By: TruePaintballer
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 4:48pm
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creepy indeed, but i am sure there is some pretty impressive defence systems in the case that something like this occured ------------- http://www.freewebs.com/outlawspaintball/index.htm - Outlaws *Sponsors* http://www.abrika.ca - Abrika |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 4:50pm
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Not really. We would be royaly SCREWED if a dirty bomb went off.
It will. If you live near DC, New York or any ports near LA. Im sorry. Its likely in the next ten years you will be exposed to radiation. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Brian Fellows
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 5:06pm
| The missile silo around here is fairly well guarded. The guards also have a shoot-on-sight order for anyone trying to jump the fence. |
Posted By: XenoSabre
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 5:06pm
Its no joke that the possibilty is extremely high. There always black budget stuff, but lets be honest here. Not many "defensive" things come from black budget projects. ------------- [IMG]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f76/Xeno-Sabre/kutaragi.png"> http://xeno-sabre.deviantart.com/ - http://xeno-sabre.deviantart.com/ |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 5:09pm
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DC is so unprepared for a terrorist attack. The things that are protected arent protected that well.
I accidently walked into the Museum of Art with a huge bloody knife in my backpack. The guard just looked at me. I said hello and walked right in. On the way home i was rooting around my bag and found it. I had taken that bag into all of the smithsonians. Air and Space, Art, Natural History.. I was actualy mad no one caught me. Its like, they didnt care, wherent paying attention. It was stupid. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 5:15pm
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It'd be easier just to put one in one of the thousands of cargo containers we don't inspect....Hell, you could have one sent to every city on the east and west coast and we prolly wouldn't know anything until they started blowing up....Hell, you could prolly sneak one over the boarder if you picked the right spot and/or invested in a row boat and went to the pacific north west.....Those people from Florida say God hates us because we like g.ay people. The way I see it, he must love us because he's about the only thing that's kept us safe for the last five years.....Assuming he's real and all...ya know.... -------------  |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 5:16pm
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I think the boarders are guarded more closely. Are ports are just huge invitations to attack. Its like a sign on our preverbial backs saying "Kick Me" ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 6:06pm
Uhh... may I ask why you had a huge bloody knife with you? 
Museums have never really had the tightest security. Heck, last time I visited any of them, there weren't any guards. You simply walked in and walked out. ABL. Despite what you might have heard, and what you might have read... it's still an experimental platform. It is not operational, it has not proven itself against such threats. As stated, it is a theater weapon... it's supposed to be in the air, and supposed to intercept warheads as they are going "up"... NOT as they are coming "down". To be effective, it has to be in the air, within the theater of operations where the missiles were launched. Regardless as to climb rate, by the time you got a 747 off the ground... it'd be too late. It wouldn't have even finished taxiing to the runway before fire and brimstones came along. Our borders are extremely porous. Those of you who believe that it has improved since 9/11 would be shocked to see just how sad our border integrity is. But Jeebus forbid we ever make efforts to improve that situation... because any attempt to do so makes us "racist". (Whuaa?!) Port Security... is pretty laughable. I can only imagine, given the number of containers that make entry every day, how many Red Chinese troops and equipment could be snuck into the states using COSCO containers. Man, we'd be royally screwed. haha.
Sadly, I can't think of anything that could be done to rectify this problem. The volume of containers is much too great to search all of them, or even half... or even one of five. As for metro-area vulnerability... I'll admit it... I have a couple surplus NBC masks in my basement. They are "surplus" so I can't really say I trust my life with them... but I have them. Got my plastic sheeting a duct tape.  And have considered getting potassium iodide tablets. DC is a ripe target, and if the Shtuff Hits The Fan, I have little confidence in emergency preparedness or response. Chance we take I suppose.
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 6:08pm
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I had been off roading the day before, i use the knife to get the mud out of hard to reach places in the under cariage. It was just in my bag from the day before.
Well shorty, you know what the CDC and USAMRIID says. "There is no bio-containment without duct tape." ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 6:23pm
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haha. I keep meaning to ask some of the guys at work about that. We have a whole department for Biological Defense Research and Development... I bet their answer to "what can I do in the event of an attack?" would be "kiss your butt goodbye".
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 6:27pm
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Yes, because I'm sure it would be easier to break into a millitarily
controlled nuclear weapons silo, than it would be to sneak something
across the Canadien border.
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: dodan44
Date Posted: 27 February 2006 at 6:46pm
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there is a nuculear missle silo about 15 mins from my house. there are so many guards around it. there is no way you could get in. ------------- i pawn noobs |
Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 10:09am
You just told military about a 747 climb speed. I am amazed. |
Posted By: cadet_sergeant
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 2:40pm
| on a simular note i've noticed that the security at my school does nothing about delivery trucks that come on campus. while walking to my class right now i noticed a large unmarked delivery truck, going a little fast (maybe 25) across campus. this truck could easily drive to the front where all the students are going to be in about 1 1/2 hours. then just wait till school lets out wait for the kids to start comming then BAM.... |
Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 3:20pm
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Despite what some people may say...
I don't believe schools are a high priority for terrorists. It would be far more effective to hit a power plant, a business center, or a government building than a bunch of kids who thus far are not in charge of anything important. ------------- 
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Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 5:23pm
Your from my area. Do you remember the monkey house incident in reston? Ebola burned through the entire facility, lots of monkeys and a couple people died of ebola. It was contained in the building because of duct tape. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 7:02pm
| Ebola spread that quickly? I thought it was only spread through bodily fluids? |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 7:17pm
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Nope, its airborn as well. It survives very well in an aerosol state. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 7:51pm
Uh, no? There's one or two strains we know of that are airborne, which is very few. |
Posted By: DBibeau855
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 9:47pm
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Ebola Zaire survives in an aerosol state. In a level 4 lab at USAMRIID monkeys in seperate cages where infected by another monkey. No body fluid was involved. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/DBibeau855/?chartstyle=myspacecolors">
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 01 March 2006 at 3:38pm
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Yes it is. (I know because I spent the majority of my AF career securing them.) ------------- 
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