I have done some research on "Silencers" for paintball markers/guns. Here is what I found on the BATF website specifically about "Silencers and paintball markers/guns"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a9 - http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a9

Very interesting and hopefully this will help everyone maybe understand what is legal and not, here in the US.

the flanker wrote: I want silencers to be legal!

Talk to your congressman.

STANGER,

I know that YWSM had posted it before, but I didn't have the site address available. Thank you for posting it!

LMAO  Your so stupid!!  This says paintball silencers, being of their nature and cause.. have been called FIRE ARM silencers!!  DOESNT MEAN PAINTBALL GUN SILENCERS ARE ILLEGAL!  It means that some silencers that have been made can be used with a real firearm, therfor illegal!

It also says you need to pay 200 dollars in order to MANUFACTURE and REGISTER a silencer to make it legal.

A PAINTBALL GUN IS NOT A FIREARM!!

Why not you may ask? 
 Firearm - A weapon, especially a pistol or rifle, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant!

A paintball is projected by compressed air, not an explosion.  Therefor the BATF does not make the laws of paintball guns/Markers.

Any further questions, dont ask cause ur making urself look stupid by dragging this on further

lol, how are you going to fit the silencer onto the gun?  and no one considers a paintball gun a firearm except little kits on forums like these for one reason - its not one.

I dare you to find a real suppresser for a real gun, that will fit a paintball gun.  The same exact bore!  Visa versa.

The law really only applies to the airsoft guns with more universal sizes such as .45 caliber which matches quite a few guns such as the standerd rifle for the us military - M4 and M16A1 the previous standard rifle for the us military.

Ive done my research, but have you truly done yours?

This includes the research in your brain required to understand information that is given to you.

I really enjoy the nitpicking that goes on when those have little knowledge and no experience try to bully everyone who disagrees with them. I'll try one more time.

It makes no difference whether a paintball marker is considered a gun, a firearm or a ping-pong paddle. BATF could not care less on to what you install the silencer.

The BATF regulates silencers. The law is clear and specific. Silencers designed to muffle a paintball marker will work quite well on a hand gun or rifle. As JediJak said, people are mistaken to think the James Bond type screw-it-into-the-barrel is the way they are all attached. In fact, few semi-auto handguns can function with a silencer attached directly to the barrel. Most are either a friction fit or use a series of clamps to hold them in place. Most handguns have to be heavily modified to accept a screw-on style of silencer.

A few years ago someone developed a fitting for the end of several rifles and pistols. This fitting was clamped on the end of the barrel and allowed one to screw a 2 liter plastic soda bottle over the end of the barrel...making an extremely effective silencer. The BATF ruled that possession of that fitting was the same as owning a illegal silencer.

One last time, the BATF regulates the devise designed to muffle a weapon. Since a silencer designed to muffle a paintball marker can be applied to a firearm, it is still a regulated devise.

And I just cannot let it pass, if your definition of a firearm is one that requires the ignition of a combustible product to propel the "bullet," Tippmann certainly has blurred the line with the C-3.

Fact is it requires little modification of a paintball marker to turn it into a lethal weapon. Heck, there have already been people killed with standard markers when hit in the eye.

Through the centuries there have been several examples of hunting weapons that used pressure chambers to store compressed air to fire a standard lead bullet. That is just a point of interest, since it has no impact on the regulation of silencers.

Silencers are regulated. Not silencers on firearms, not silencers on paintball markers, not silencers on BB guns or on Airsoft guns. Silencers are regulated.

Bruce A. Frank wrote: Heck, there have already been people killed with standard markers when hit in the eye.

Really?  I was aware of the tank deaths, but not this.  Do you have more information about this, or a link?

Clark Kent wrote: was aware of the tank deaths, but not this.  Do you have more information about this, or a link?

Victoria Snelgrove was killed when hit in the eye by a Boston policeman firing pepperballs to control crowds. October '04

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/22/fan.death/ - http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/22/fan.death/

The products:

http://www.pepperball.com/home_a.asp - http://www.pepperball.com/home_a.asp

http://www.pepperball.com/le/products.asp - http://www.pepperball.com/le/products.asp

Bruce A. Frank wrote: And I just cannot let it pass, if your definition of a firearm is one that requires the ignition of a combustible product to propel the "bullet," Tippmann certainly has blurred the line with the C-3.

I was just about to bring up the C-3, but you beat me to it.

Ok, this is my final post cause no one has listened to me yet.

A paintball gun uses COMPRESSED AIR (or nitrogen)!
A firearm uses EXPLOSIONS

The BATF sets the laws on ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS

So yes, they do care that a paintball gun isn't a firearm, the only person who doesn't is you.

bruce a... have you been listening????  I said it is projected BY COMBUSTION not a combustable product you dummas!  STAY ON TOPIC!

BATF regulates silencers on FIREARMS... end of story!  Paintball guns are not firearms, therefor the BATF does not make laws about paintball guns!  Maybe you dont understand this buy BATF makes laws about silencers on firearms!  They dont make it on cars, or motorcycles, or boats, or EVEN PAINTBALLGUNS!  It is strictly FIREARMS.  Which is why its called BATF and not BATFPM (Beuro of alchol tobacco firearms and paintball markers)

How bout you guys read and understand everything before you post.

Let me break it down for you. 
THE TERMS FIREARMS SILENCER AND FIREARM MUFFLER MEAN ANY DEVICE FOR SILENCING, MUFFLING, OR DIMINISHING THE REPORT OF A PORTABLE FIREARM INCLUDING ANY COMBINATION OF PARTS, DESIGNED OR REDESIGNED AND INTENDED FOR USE IN ASSEMBLING OR FABRICATING A FIREARM SILENCER OR FIREARM MUFFLER, AND ANY PART INTENDED ONLY FOR USE IN SUCH ASSEMBLY OR FABRICATION.
This is the most important statement.  This says that the silencers that they are talking about is a firearm silencer and a firearm muffler... OH BUT WAIT A SEC... Didnt dave prove to us all that paintball guns arnt firearms?!  OMG!
It also says that SOME PAINTBALL SILENCERS HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED A FIREARM SILENCER!  It says that inside of here!  Can you believe it?!  If you dont just read it!
 NUMEROUS PAINTBALL SILENCERS TESTED BY THE FIREARMS TECHNOLOGY BRANCH HAVE BEEN DETERMINED TO BE, BY NATURE OF THEIR DESIGN AND FUNCTION, FIREARM SILENCERS.  This means that some silencers designed for paintball guns have been tested to work on real guns, and therefor are illegal
AN INDIVIDUAL WISHING TO MANUFACTURE A FIREARM SILENCER MUST RECIEVE PRIOR APPROVAL FROM ATF BY SUBMITTING AN ATF FORM 1 AND PAYING A $200 MAKING TAX.
This is a very misunderstood statement to you all!  This says that anyone who wishes to MANUFACTURE a silencer must be tested by atf, and if you want to manufacture you need $200 tax fee.  Why would they say you need a tax fee of 200$ to make a silencer if silencers were illegal?!  Simply because not all of them are, the ones that will fit the firearms are illegal.

So will you all stop dragging it out, suck it up, and admit that i am right.  Just say it!: Oh, i misunderstood this law and it is true that SOME paintball silencers are illegal only because they are compatable with FIREARM silencers.

daveb333 wrote: Ok, this is my final post cause no one has listened to me yet.   A paintball gun uses COMPRESSED AIR (or nitrogen)! A firearm uses EXPLOSIONS The BATF sets the laws on ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS So yes, they do care that a paintball gun isn't a firearm, the only person who doesn't is you.   bruce a... have you been listening????  I said it is projected BY COMBUSTION not a combustable product you dummas!  STAY ON TOPIC! BATF regulates silencers on FIREARMS... end of story!  Paintball guns are not firearms, therefor the BATF does not make laws about paintball guns!  Maybe you dont understand this buy BATF makes laws about silencers on firearms!  They dont make it on cars, or motorcycles, or boats, or EVEN PAINTBALLGUNS!  It is strictly FIREARMS.  Which is why its called BATF and not BATFPM (Beuro of alchol tobacco firearms and paintball markers) How bout you guys read and understand everything before you post.

Dave,

No one is listening to you because you haven't the slightest idea about which you speak. You do not know what the BATF charter covers, but that isn't even the point. As I have said about 14 times so far BATF regulates the piece of equipment called a silencer. It makes no difference whether the silencer is installed on, I'll say it again, a "firearm", a paintball marker or a BB gun. That is the fact. Your convoluted logic about method of projectile propulsion has nothing to do with the silencer itself.

Because the name of the the department, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, does not include the word "and Silencers" (on paintball markers) does not mean they don't regulate them. The silencer is treated exactly the same way that a trigger mechanism designed to convert a semi-auto gun to full auto is treated. It is illegal to own that part, even if you don't own the gun into which it fits. If you own that conversion part you are subject to arrest...the part alone.

If you own or manufacture the silencer, you are subject to arrest even it you do not own a firearm, a paintball marker or a BB gun on which to install it.
=======================
Now, to progress on to your definition of "firearm."  If the definition were as limited as you delude yourself in to believing there would still be a hole in your logic through which one could drive a truck. A bullet is propelled by the products of combustion, not explosion, of fuel burning. It makes no difference if the fuel is propane gas or gun powder. The expanding gas drives the projectile out of the barrel. But this has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the legality or illegality of silencers.

Gosh, golly, is that redundant enough?

daveb333 wrote: The law really only applies to the airsoft guns with more universal sizes such as .45 caliber which matches quite a few guns such as the standerd rifle for the us military - M4 and M16A1 the previous standard rifle for the us military.   Ive done my research, but have you truly done yours? This includes the research in your brain required to understand information that is given to you.

I don't know anything about silencers but I do know something about guns and just wanted to clear some things up so you don't get misinformed.

1.Gunpowder actually burns, not explode, very quickly and its the rapidly expanding gasses pushing the bullet out.  The only exeption to this that I know of is blank cartriges, blanks are loaded with an explosive powder.

2.The military rifles you mentioned as an example of .45 caliber weapons are not .45 and are anything from 5.56, .223, or 7.62 x 39 depending on where you are in the evolution of the current military rifle

3.The last thing here, which im fairly sure of, that the M-4 is the carbine version of the M-16, and both are currently being used by our military.  I belive I head that the Marines still use the M-16 and the Army has mostly switched over to the M-4.

Chuck357 wrote: Don' take this the wrong way you guys, I 100% agree with all the info, but Dave is ignorant and just needs some guidance, take it easy on him.

Well, for my part, I keep repeating the same info to him over and over again. And he comes back SCREAMING AT US that we are a bunch of imbeciles (in effect) because we don't accept his wild claims. Quoting chapter and verse from BATF regs and BATF's previous answers to this specific question seems to have had no impact...except to make him more angry. Therefore I can understand some here on the forum getting a little pointed with their criticism of him.

It is also clear that he has not read the proper edicate on the forums posts.

Welcome to the Tippmann Forum! Read This!

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I know, I know I just went through it with him about paintballs,he claimed to the death that all paint was manufactured exactly the same size and could be shot from every marker manufactured,he had me more than a little tiff,but most of us aren't about ragging someone.As I said he needs to be proved wrong and educated,then he will a good player.

"If you don't have a plan of you're own, you'll be part of someone elses"

Chuck357 wrote: It isn't .005 caliber , it's .005 of an inch difference, and .005 is a lot.

Actually it is closer to .010".  And, caliber is inch...fifty caliber is .50"...Thirty caliber is .30"...Forty five caliber is .45".

There are variations in measurement and caliber, such as the fact that 68 caliber varies from .678" to .693" or that 38 caliber actually measures .357" and 30 caliber can be .308" to .312".

daveb333 wrote: lmao, taking any argument you guys can get huh?

And in the process making you sound like a pompous idiot, so yeah. It's worth it.

RicWhic414 wrote: its ok guys take it easy on dave hes been wrong on ever post that i have ever read of his... so we just need to explain to him sometimes more then once that he is wrong and just tell him the right answer... silencers are illegal just for the simple fact that they can or could be but on a real firearm and what would be the reason for someone to have a silencer other then killin someone or somethin without bein noticed... so for that silencers r illegal and thats it.

Lol, I have been wrong in one thing.. that is saying that paintballs are the same size.  Ill agree to that.  But I havn't been wrong in any other post.  I have disagreed with you in every single post, doesnt mean im wrong.  Silencers are legal, just read the post how i spell out the law about silencers on paintball guns.  Its quite simple... but you still dont get it.  Email the BATF and see for yourself, thats what i did.

daveb333 wrote: RicWhic414 wrote: its ok guys take it easy on dave hes been wrong on ever post that i have ever read of his... so we just need to explain to him sometimes more then once that he is wrong and just tell him the right answer... silencers are illegal just for the simple fact that they can or could be but on a real firearm and what would be the reason for someone to have a silencer other then killin someone or somethin without bein noticed... so for that silencers r illegal and thats it. Lol, I have been wrong in one thing.. that is saying that paintballs are the same size.  Ill agree to that.  But I havn't been wrong in any other post.  I have disagreed with you in every single post, doesnt mean im wrong.  Silencers are legal, just read the post how i spell out the law about silencers on paintball guns.  Its quite simple... but you still dont get it.  Email the BATF and see for yourself, thats what i did.

Sure you did! Post the email reply.

-=Kasutik=- wrote: if you want a "legal" silencer on your marker in USA, weld your barrel to your gun and weld your silencer to the barrel... it can therefore never be used on a fire arm.

im not sure if that is legal either cuz technically u can cut the welds off and still use it on another gun... and im not emaillin them because i already no the law silencer= illegal the only ones u can have are the fake silencers or suppressors but those dont do anythin

EDIT: u no what "daveb333" u go right ahead and get a silencer they prolly wont ever find out that u have one but if they do have fun with the fine or even jail time

RicWhic414 wrote: im talkin about silencers for a firearm will not fit on any paintball gun... silencers for firearms are way to small... and i have never seen or heard of a silencer for a paintball gun that actually does anythin other then look like a silencer

The theme of the discussion has been about makinging and installing your own. And because you haven't heard of silencers made for markers actually working on firearms just means you  haven't read the BATF regs referenced in these posts. BATF comments are related to the fact that they DID test paintball silencers and found they worked well enough on firearms (in fact they worked as well as those made specifically for firearms) to fall under the laws intended to regulate silencers.

RicWhic414 wrote: Bruce A. Frank wrote: RicWhic414 wrote: sorry i must have miss read  That's Okay. We are all here to share info. These forums are a plethora of facts about paintball and many related topics. thank u for usin the word plethera its my favorite word in the dictionary

 That's good! A few weeks ago there was a "big word alert" issued because I used stoichiometric in explanation of the C-3, but, heck a large percentage in the forums don't bother to learn the names of the parts of their markers, which would allow them to ask concise and explicit questions.  

DeTrevni wrote: i have yet to see anyone mention this little doosey (of course, i didn't read all of the posts): paintball silencer would be fine. provided they didnt muffle actual firearms. which they do. this is why they are illegal. a silencer fit onto a compressed air powered projctile launcher will also muffle a cumbustion powered projectile launcher. illegal. is it necessary to have a 3 page argument about it?

No, it shouldn't have been necessary. But, you should go back and read all the acrimonious posts in both this subject line and another, sssshhhhh quiet! , to understand why there has had to be so much repetition leading to a 3 page "discussion."

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Ok, I've been gone a long time but this is one of my pet peeves.

First, the BATF is only concerned about FIREARMS SILENCERS (firearm as defined by a projectile being expelled by means of an explosion ... and agreeably the C-3 is in a mighty fine gray area). However it is their definition of firearm silencer that must be understood. The INTENTIONAL use of the device is not part of the equation. If the silencer / muffler CAN BE attached to a firearm, it is defined by the BATF as a firearms silencer. Hence their statement that many paintball silencers that have been tested are treated as firearms silencers.

However, there are paintball pilencers that are not classified as such. If you question my logic I can give one of the most clear examples now ... barrel porting. Need proof? Just compare the difference between ported and non-ported barrels. Porting is popularly thought of as a tool to increase accuracy, but it is actually a method of suppressing (aka silencing or muffling) the sound. Here's an easy, though old-school, test: compare a 68-Special with a stock barrel to one with a J&J Ceramic barrel. The very obvious difference is due to the porting (no the composition does not effect the sound enough to matter). This is how Smart Parts is legally selling their new marker with a night fighter version with marketing that states it has a silencer ... they go on to say it is barrel porting. Another potential method would be a suppressor that was permanently connected to the frame of the marker as a one piece unit which would be destroyed in removing it from the marker ... but I'm not willing to pay the cost of what that would cost, even without the still possible BATF fee if they decided that it could be removed and used on a firearm.

And as far as paintball markers being classified as firearms, they are not. However, are they classified as weapons? The federal government says they are not as it does not classify airguns this way at all. However, state, county and local laws may differ and depending on how airguns are classified (since paintball markers ARE air guns), this will effect other things. If a local law classifies airguns in the same manner as firearms than full-auto would actually be regulated (aka basically illegal) in that particular juristicion. What that same juristicion would have to say about the barrel porting and other legal sound suppression ... I have no clue.

And yes, I am old-school enough to remember paintball stores selling paintball silencers on the shelf and yes, I even bought one or two back in the day. Did they work? Kinda, sorta. But was it worth having a big 18" weight on the end of my SL-68?  Only if you really could guarantee that you hit on the first two shots ... after all, the large silencer always made aiming that much harder because you were looking above the barrel AND it offset the weight to the front of the marker WAY more than everyone complains about the backbottles offsetting weight to the rear.

Arbites,

That was a good and concise overview of the topic of silencer legality. Porting on a paintball barrel is, just as you said, a completely legal method of reducing report. Specifically because it is a non-detachable or independent part and thus cannot be used on or transfered to a firearm.

Daveb333 has been correct in the respect that paintball markers are not classified as firearms. So therefore there can be manufacturing designs, micro porting, that intensionally reduces the report of a paintball marker.

These types of design features, if incorporated into a firearm  intending to significantly reduce the firearm report, would be illegal exactly because it is a firearm.

The removable, transportable and transferable silencer devise is the point of BATF regulations.

demigod wrote: The last two posts have it pretty much right as far as I have able to determine.  It has to be nonremoveable and built into the paintball marker.  Anything other than that is a violation of the laws relating to Class III weapons.  By the way, just to stir the pot again, it's now the BATFE.  Go to their website and read all the items regarding this for more clarification.  This topic has been beaten to death on other forums around the country.

Thank you for the heads up. I was un aware that the BATF had been split into two entities with one group going to Justice and the other staying with Treasury.

The BATF had been in charge of "explosive and destructive devises" for quite a long time. The move seems logical (I know, I know...completely the wrong word to use in reference to a governmental agency). I suspect that everyone will still refer to the agency in-charge of firearms as either the BATF or ATF, as they have forever.