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NO Air

Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Gun Maintenace and Repair
Forum Description: Important info for keeping your marker in top shape
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=153748
Printed Date: 17 January 2026 at 11:01am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: NO Air
Posted By: k00lrav
Subject: NO Air
Date Posted: 22 April 2006 at 11:37pm
hey guys whats up i just bought my gun package and i got the 9oz tank when i screwed it in and i added a few painsballs in to shoot i couldnt shoot nothing noballs came out like there was no CO2 in the tank, these tanks when u buy them with the package are they empy and do u have to fill them up, cuz it seems to me the tank is empty, and i got the 98 custom and i also acidently pust the rear aim adjuster off and i was wondering if that would be a problem and if it would be easy to re attach



Replies:
Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 22 April 2006 at 11:45pm
you have to fill them up, if they were shipped full itd be a hazard i think, not sure, but you need to fill it up, you can get it done at sports authority for $3 i think


Posted By: Simma Down!!
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 2:28pm
GI is right tanks are shipped empty. Its i believe illegal to ship a full tank.


Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 3:39pm
thats correct, its illegal. Thats why almost all HPA tanks now have easily removed regs that dont use loctite. To ship an air tank/take it on a plane, the inspector must be able to look inside the tank to insure that there is nothing illegal inside, and that way he/she knows that the tank is NOT pressurized. a pressurized tank at a planes cruising altitude would almost definitely explode.

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CPro (w/ polished internals)
14" Bigshot
BT SBS
Various Rails
NcSTAR D4B
Macro
AA 68/45

CCI Phantom
45 Grips


Posted By: S\/\/4T-L()G4N
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 8:03pm
Not only that...but inside of a hot semi-trailer...all the burst disks would blow.

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Posted By: RavenGuard
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Ilford Rule Ilford Rule wrote:

thats correct, its illegal. Thats why almost all HPA tanks now have easily removed regs that dont use loctite. To ship an air tank/take it on a plane, the inspector must be able to look inside the tank to insure that there is nothing illegal inside, and that way he/she knows that the tank is NOT pressurized. a pressurized tank at a planes cruising altitude would almost definitely explode.


Passenger plane cabins are pressurized... are the not?


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Tippmann A-5
Polished Internals
E-Grip
Ape Board
JCS Blade Trigger
QEV
8" Bigshot + Apex
Ricochet R-5 / Tac Cap
Palmers Stabilizer
68/4500 Crossfire


Posted By: Enos Shenk
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by RavenGuard RavenGuard wrote:



Passenger plane cabins are pressurized... are the not?


Baggage compartments arent I believe


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Posted By: k00lrav
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 9:36pm
thanks for the help guys


Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Date Posted: 26 April 2006 at 3:21pm

Originally posted by Ilford Rule Ilford Rule wrote:

(SNIP)

a pressurized tank at a planes cruising altitude would almost definitely explode.

No, the oxygen tanks used in high altitude aircraft are EXACTLY the same as the HPA paintball tank...Kevlar, carbon fiber or fiberglass and all.

A tank that holds 5000 psi inside is not affected by lower pressure on the outside. Atmospheric pressure pushing on the outside of the tank at ground level is only 15 psi...even taking the paintball tank into the vacuum of space would have no impact on its ability to safely contain the 5000 psi air inside.



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Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:37pm
Are you sure? Then why is it against FAA regulations to carry presurized cylinders? (is it to prevent impact damage and resulting explosions?)

also, the outside pressure does matter. thats why bicycle tires will burst if they are at their full ~60 psi load.


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CPro (w/ polished internals)
14" Bigshot
BT SBS
Various Rails
NcSTAR D4B
Macro
AA 68/45

CCI Phantom
45 Grips


Posted By: cus98tom
Date Posted: 28 April 2006 at 1:56pm
When an aircraft is pressurized for example 35000ft , only 8psi is needed to maintain the cabin pressure at a comfortable level.


Posted By: RavenGuard
Date Posted: 28 April 2006 at 3:30pm
it's all because of the hazard of it exploding on it's own, not by any other account, because something like that in a plane means everyone is dead.

-------------
Tippmann A-5
Polished Internals
E-Grip
Ape Board
JCS Blade Trigger
QEV
8" Bigshot + Apex
Ricochet R-5 / Tac Cap
Palmers Stabilizer
68/4500 Crossfire


Posted By: Stormcharger
Date Posted: 01 May 2006 at 12:16pm
The subject of transporting pressureized containers is covered in your HAZMAT handbook.  If you don't have one please stick to what you know. 


Posted By: boom-boom
Date Posted: 02 May 2006 at 4:43pm
Wow. This was educational.

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I'd rather be playing paintball than sitting here talking about it.

GIDEON'S ELITE: Never heard of us? It's cause we're not any good.


Posted By: old fart
Date Posted: 02 May 2006 at 4:55pm
hey guys the neww FFA Regulations state that all preassure vessels can be boarded, but the pinvalves and regs. must be removed. that is why the new hpa bottles have longer thread necks and use no locktite when installed. an empty tank the reg comes out very easy


Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 02 May 2006 at 9:20pm
this still doesnt explain why bicycle inner tubes DO burst when outside pressure is lowered.

Also, the cargo hold is not pressurized. Actually, in some the air is pumped OUT (not a full vacuum, but almost) to prevent fires.


-------------
CPro (w/ polished internals)
14" Bigshot
BT SBS
Various Rails
NcSTAR D4B
Macro
AA 68/45

CCI Phantom
45 Grips


Posted By: benttwig33
Date Posted: 02 May 2006 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by Ilford Rule Ilford Rule wrote:

Are you sure? Then why is it against FAA regulations to carry
presurized cylinders? (is it to prevent impact damage and resulting
explosions?)

also, the outside pressure does matter. thats why bicycle tires will burst if they are at their full ~60 psi load.




They can be used as bombs if carried on.

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Sig is WAY too big.


Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 May 2006 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by benttwig33 benttwig33 wrote:

Originally posted by Ilford Rule Ilford Rule wrote:

Are you sure? Then why is it against FAA regulations to carry
presurized cylinders? (is it to prevent impact damage and resulting
explosions?)

also, the outside pressure does matter. thats why bicycle tires will burst if they are at their full ~60 psi load.




They can be used as bombs if carried on.


^^^ Correct. The reason the reg must be removed when tanks are placed in luggage is so that TSA inspectors can visually inspect the interior of the tank to ensure it isn't stuffed with explosives.


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Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Date Posted: 03 May 2006 at 5:28pm

Originally posted by Ilford Rule Ilford Rule wrote:

Are you sure? Then why is it against FAA regulations to carry presurized cylinders? (is it to prevent impact damage and resulting explosions?)

also, the outside pressure does matter. thats why bicycle tires will burst if they are at their full ~60 psi load.

Uh, where do I begin. Lets see, Middle School science class or, hmmm, maybe High School physics class.

A tire explodes because its structure is designed to hold a specified level of pressure. If you pressurize it to its maximum rating then hit a pot hole or it is degraded in strength because it has been exposed to UV for a year or there was a fold in the tube. Just like a balloon, the tube has a physical size limit. If the lowering of external pressure causes the tube to grow larger than its design physical limity it will fail. A tank designes for thousands of psi, 15 lbs of differential has no impact on its structure.

It is against FAA regs to transport pressurized cylinders because:

1. A cylinder that leaks or ruptures its safety disk  in an enclosed area (cabin of a plane) may displace the oxygen. (CO2 Cylinder!) Causing asphyxiation.

2. A cylinder may have a defect that could cause it to rupture. Such an explosion in the confines of an aircraft (having nothing to do with the fact that it is in an aircraft) could bring it down.

All the possible dangers of high pressure cylinders that might cause injury or damage on the ground become critical problems in aircraft due to damage, depressurization, or close proximity of passengers.

It simplifies things just to not allow them in any state of fill or containing any gas...allow them on board only if verifiable empty.

And again, atmospheric pressure squeezing the tank at  sea level is only 14.7 psi. The tank can contain thousands of psi. It makes no difference what the outside pressure in  wherever the tank is...at sea level or in the vacuum of space. Oh, BTW if your bicycle tire were in good condition and mounted correctly on the rim, it could be taken into the vacuum of space with no problem (there are some considerations due to the physical structure and maximum internal pressure...but of no consequence in this level of discussion)



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Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Date Posted: 03 May 2006 at 5:58pm

Originally posted by Ilford Rule Ilford Rule wrote:

this still doesnt explain why bicycle inner tubes DO burst when outside pressure is lowered.

At the low working pressures of tires/tubes differences of 15 pounds of pressure can take the tube to its structural limit. If the bicycle tire has a maximum working pressure of 50 psi, the addition of 15 psi may take it beyond its structural rupture point.

Filling that tire to 50 psi at sea level then taking it into space, in this case of maximum structural expansion, the tire will expand as though you had added 15 more psi, making the tire larger and possibly causing failure.

Quote
Also, the cargo hold is not pressurized. Actually, in some the air is pumped OUT (not a full vacuum, but almost) to prevent fires.

You get a kick out of off the wall statements, don't you? Some cargo holds are pressurized and some are not. Cargo holds are not pumped down. If they are not pressurized they assume the same atmospheric pressure for the altitude at which the plane is flying.

Most high altitude airlines run pressurized so Aunt Mimi's pet poodle in the cargo hold doesn't die from lack of oxygen.

A fully pressurized tank exposed to the low pressure of an un-pressurized hold will not explode because of the low pressures around it. The dangers it presents are always present, having nothing to do with atmospheric pressure surrounding it.

You do know, don't you, that people climb mount Everest carrying oxygen bottles. The top of Everest is 29,035 feet, which is about the altitude at which many airlines fly. Those people are not in pressure suits. The tanks are not in pressure suits. They, the tanks, don't blow up because the atmosphere pressure is lower at 29,000 feet than it was at sea level (now people at such low atmospheric pressure do have problems). Tanks that are within their hydrostatic test period and are not damaged don't usually blow up in any situation. The FAA restricts them so they don't have to verify that they are in good shape or within hydro-stat. If the tank is un-pressurized and they can see that there is no C-4 stuffed inside they will let you transport it to your tournament.

BTW, did you get into the "legality of silencers" discussion? If you miss it, you missed a great opportunity to make inane statements on another subject.



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Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 5:40pm
Bruce, While i appreciate your comments, I am absolutely sure that there has been at least one form of cargo hold where air is intentionally pumped out.

This form of cargo hold was used due to its cheap design. A fire actually once brought a plane down because one of the oxygen tanks that was held near the cargo hold leaked. Because of a fault in the fire detection circuit, a rubber tire caught fire and was fueled by the oxygen leak (and eventual rupture). This did happen. (I cant remember what started the fire in the first place though).

But i can assure you that this DID happen.


-------------
CPro (w/ polished internals)
14" Bigshot
BT SBS
Various Rails
NcSTAR D4B
Macro
AA 68/45

CCI Phantom
45 Grips



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