Article wrote: "I think people who want to be citizens of this country ought to learn English," Bush said.

I wish there was a way to show shamefull and exasperated head-in-heads visions on the forum.

Great, this is going to turn into another language debate.

2 points someone mentions "National language law"

3 points for "ZOMG YOU COME TO 'MERICA YOU LEAN 'MERICAN"

4 points for a fast food story about a working who doesnt speak english

2 points for a drug reference

3 points for "obey the culture ftwlol"

4 points for "Cops need to be able to communicate with them"

Go.

Filter dodge anywon?

I think its stupid, Majority of Americans speak english, so our anthem should be in English. Though it would be cool to learn it in Spanish.

If people want to buy drugs they have to be able to communicate with the dealer.

Da Hui wrote: Filter dodge anywon? I think its stupid, Majority of Americans speak english, so our anthem should be in English. Though it would be cool to learn it in Spanish.

Oh...My God...This thread is going to try my patience....

Nobody is making you say it in Spanish. At gatherings, where the majority speak Spanish, they say it in Spanish.

How does that hurt you at all?

mbro wrote: DeTrevni wrote: when i get rich, im moving to australia. Have fun on your prison colony

from what im hearing, have fun in new new mexico.

holysmartone wrote: I want someone to calmly and rationally explain to me why America has to give ANY rights to illegal immigrants.

What does ILLEGAL have to do with anything?

Millions of American citizens sing the anthem in various languages already.

This is no big deal at all.

Sammy wrote: How does making them learn English hurt them? Hey, why not stop there. Let's let them go to school in Spanish, go to court in Spanish and have all the signs in America written in Spanish.

This may shock you, but they many people may even sing christmas carols in other languages too!!

I swear - the xenophobia in this place never ceases to amaze me.

Tae Kwon Do wrote: Da Hui wrote: Filter dodge anywon? I think its stupid, Majority of Americans speak english, so our anthem should be in English. Though it would be cool to learn it in Spanish. Oh...My God...This thread is going to try my patience.... Nobody is making you say it in Spanish. At gatherings, where the majority speak Spanish, they say it in Spanish. How does that hurt you at all?

I believe you mis-read my post.

I refuse to turn a discussion of the national anthem into general immigration talk.

Start another thread, if you like, and I will play with you there.

I know lots of people that fly flags other than the stars and stripes.  I've seen French, Mexican, Italian, Irish, Chinese, Swedish - you name it, Americans will fly it.

Heck, some Americans even fly a flag that specifically symbolizes rebellion against this very country.

Flying un-American flags is a very American thing to do.

EDIT - btw, what is this felony people are talking about?

illegal entry is not a felony.

There are bills in Congress that would make it so, but it not a felony at this time.

Hades wrote: Yes, now bend over so I can give you your spanking.

But it's not Tuesday...?

brihard wrote: Clark Kent wrote: I break the speed limit every day.  Does that make me a bad person? Apples and oranges clark; don't play dumb- you're too smart to pull it off. Breaking a law with valid economic, administrative, and antional security functions is different from breaking a rather dubious law around motor transportation safety. Plus you're not said a thing about the point I bring up about how accepting illegal immigrents screws over those who try to do it properly.

I recognize the difference - my point is simply that we cannot draw a straight line from "illegal" to "bad".  The two are obviously connected, but they are not the same.

I feel no moral qualms about speeding for the exact reasons you describe.

On the other end of the spectrum, numerous very serious laws were broken by civil rights pioneers in this country, and nobody would doubt their moral justification.  Heck, this whole country was founded by traitors.

I do not suggest that we automatically excuse illegal immigration, or that there are no moral implications - but I DO suggest that we cannot stop the analysis at "illegal".

Quick analogy: 

Man steal medicine to sell on the black market - Illegal and wrong, no discussion.  Now - man steals medicine he cannot afford, to keep his ill wife alive.  Or steals bread to feed his family.  Or whatever.  Illegal, yes - but morally wrong?  Much more difficult question.

I suggest that many illegal immigrants are in the same boat as the guy stealing bread for his starving kids.  After all, sneaking across the border is no picnic.  People die, get killed and robbed, women get raped, kids get snatched - it's a nasty business.  People don't take their families into that kind of harm's way unless they see no other way out.  These people aren't "criminals" in the moral sense of the word, even though they are breaking laws.

Clearly something needs to change - many things need to change.  But simply beginning and ending the discussion with "illegal" is neither correct nor fruitful.

And, of course, this has nothing to do with the rather bizarre hysteria over some folks singing a song.

Linus wrote: I say speak it in English.

People keep saying that - but why?

If I want to get a bunch of my buddies together and sing the national anthem in Russian while waiving the Chinese flag - is anybody seriously suggesting that this should somehow be illegal?

That is just the weirdest thing I have ever heard.

Anyone actually watch it on the news yesterday? I did... and NONE of the words match. It's just the same tune. In stead of "Rockest red glare, bombs bursting in air" it's something like "FLying objects redish hue, explosives disapearing with a loud boom above the ground" (Exagerated.. but true none-the-less)

To which I offer a giant "SO WHAT?"

But then what is your opinion exactly?

Are you making a moral claim about something?  If so about what exactly?

heil hitler, vive la france, long live stalin. there. that should give people plenty of reason to mindlessly whine.

i think this whole argument shouldnt even concern us. im one of those people who take the anthem pretty lightly, its just a song of praise. i really dont care how you sing it, the overall meaning is "america is good." the only thing that would offend me is if you make singing it in like 5 different languages official, cause that would just be kissing up to someone.

Linus wrote: I say speak it in English, becuase it just gets changed too much in any other langauges becuase they dont do literal translations, and if they did, it would make no sense in their language, nulifying the whole point.

You need to be a LOT more specific than that.

Who should "speak" the anthem in English, under what circumstances, and why?

Is there some particular reason why I shouldn't sing any song I choose in any language I choose?

I am completely missing your point.

i hate politics. i should start a utopian society, where we all share wealth, and i off anyone who disagrees.

[/communism]

I don't really understand the debate here. Who really cares who sings whatever in what language?

They can change the words around to play "Death to America" which someone mentioned, and I really couldn't care less. It's freedom of speech-and the President really didn't need to weigh in on it.

Now if we're talking "officially" using the anthem, I say leave it in English. We don't need it played all over the nation in two different languages-but that's not the issue here.

BTW, just for the record, Jimi Hendrix's version of the national anthem is one of the greatest guitar solos in history. And it was an act of sheer protest, maybe even rebellion. It mocks and plays in and out of the actual anthem itself-yet it's adored by millions of guitar players around the world including me. It's freedom of expression-do what you want, just don't burn the freakin flag and I'm happy. That's a different argument altogether, though. 

Linus wrote: My point is that it's my opinion that it shoudl be "sung" in English. I never said it should be illegal to sing it in another language, but it's my opinion that it should stay English, where the exact words are used.

You keep saying that, but it still doesn't mean anything.  You need to provide a lot more explanation here.

stratoaxe wrote: They can change the words around to play "Death to America" which someone mentioned, and I really couldn't care less.

Seriously.  If the anthem were that holy, we wouldn't let bad singers butcher it at every high school basketball game.

if your missing my hidden meaning, im basically saying this country has been through way too many close calls. we shouldnt be even arguing about this stuff, we take it for granted. we came so very close to being communist, we came so very close to nuclear war twice, and now we are coming very close to nuclear war again. iran already promised to annhailate israel, and that would most definately put us into combat. and here we are, arguing about singing a song.

it all makes no sense to me...

Yes, the meaning changes.  I got that part.

It's the "should" part that confuses me.