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98 Custom Not ReCocking*new Problem!*

Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Gun Maintenace and Repair
Forum Description: Important info for keeping your marker in top shape
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=156781
Printed Date: 22 December 2024 at 9:12pm
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Topic: 98 Custom Not ReCocking*new Problem!*
Posted By: Chrisb319
Subject: 98 Custom Not ReCocking*new Problem!*
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 3:44am
After I installed my new valve my gun is uncocking after every single shot. There is no leaks whatso ever so I'm clueless. Could it be that my C02 is low?(my tank was near empty) yes I lubed my front and rear o-rings. The ball detent/latch is correctly placed.



Replies:
Posted By: Mehs
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 5:34am
You're missing screws, 2 of them.  Where?  Well, when you're looking down your site, the two screws on the right side, right about where your valve is located, call Tippmann or go visit your local hardware store.

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[IMG]http://i27.tinypic.com/1538fbc.jpg">
Squeeze Box


Posted By: Bruce A. Frank
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 10:58am

Originally posted by Chrisb319 Chrisb319 wrote:

After I installed my new valve my gun is uncocking after every single shot. There is no leaks whatso ever so I'm clueless. Could it be that my C02 is low?(my tank was near empty) yes I lubed my front and rear o-rings. The ball detent/latch is correctly placed.

If the screws Mehs mentioned aren't missing then yes, it is 99% likely that your COis low.



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Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 11:14am
Originally posted by Bruce A. Frank Bruce A. Frank wrote:

Originally posted by Chrisb319 Chrisb319 wrote:

After I installed my new valve my gun is uncocking after every single shot. There is no leaks whatso ever so I'm clueless. Could it be that my C02 is low?(my tank was near empty) yes I lubed my front and rear o-rings. The ball detent/latch is correctly placed.

If the screws Mehs mentioned aren't missing then yes, it is 99% likely that your COis low.



The two screws are there :)


Posted By: S\/\/4T-L()G4N
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 12:31pm
Did you remove them when you took it apart? If so, they need to be re-removed, re-locktited, and re-replaced.

If not, get a fill ;)

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Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 1:30pm
Wow...if his tank was near empty...it should not recock.  Hey!  Does it make like a full auto burping noice and then stop uncocked?  If so...fill your tank.

Hey bruce...how do you make the subscript 2 in this forum?


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Please sign up at http://www.tippmannowners.com/ - http://www.tippmannowners.com/ and leave the referrer as me (FA22RaptorF22)and you will be my hero.


Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by FA22RaptorF22 FA22RaptorF22 wrote:

Wow...if his tank was near empty...it should not recock.  Hey!  Does it make like a full auto burping noice and then stop uncocked?  If so...fill your tank.

Hey bruce...how do you make the subscript 2 in this forum?


Yeah is makes a burping noise just after it uncocks.

Do I have to put locktite on the valve screws? I hate dealing with locktite could I just leave them screwed in without locktite?


Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 5:41pm
dont loctite anything. your tank is empty. it wont recock if there isnt enough air to recock it! get it filled then report back.

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Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"



Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 10:39pm
No. Just like DeTreveni said, you dont thread lock anything.  If you want at best, clean it all out, fill your tank, and screw hand tight.

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Please sign up at http://www.tippmannowners.com/ - http://www.tippmannowners.com/ and leave the referrer as me (FA22RaptorF22)and you will be my hero.


Posted By: S\/\/4T-L()G4N
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

dont loctite anything. your tank is empty. it wont recock if there isnt enough air to recock it! get it filled then report back.


Originally posted by FA22RaptorF22 FA22RaptorF22 wrote:

No. Just like DeTreveni said, you dont thread lock anything. If you want at best, clean it all out, fill your tank, and screw hand tight.


Alright, this is a classic. Two people in a row that don't have a clue of what they are talking about.

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Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 10:56pm
Edit:  Ok...after looking now...that im tired....the two things i put locktite on are a thin layer on the velocity screw...to keep it from being loose and the vavle screws...b/c i remember them coming loose....

I hate when im tired


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Please sign up at http://www.tippmannowners.com/ - http://www.tippmannowners.com/ and leave the referrer as me (FA22RaptorF22)and you will be my hero.


Posted By: S\/\/4T-L()G4N
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by FA22RaptorF22 FA22RaptorF22 wrote:

Edit: Ok...after looking now...that im tired....the two things i put locktite on are a thin layer on the velocity screw...to keep it from being loose and the vavle screws...b/c i remember them coming loose....I hate when im tired


Because they are from the factory

If that isn't a good enough reason, the power tube could move if they fall out, and when the hammer hits the powertube it will break.

It that isn't good enough, air leaks out of them when you shoot, if this happens blowback pressure will decrease. You gun will shoot one shot fine, the second will be weak and the gun will not cycle. Repeat.

Good enough?

EDIT: Amazing timing. You edited between the time my page loaded and I read it, to the time I clicked quote.

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Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 28 June 2006 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by <span =bold>S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

EDIT: Amazing timing. You edited between the time my page loaded and I read it, to the time I clicked quote.


Hah awsome


-------------
Please sign up at http://www.tippmannowners.com/ - http://www.tippmannowners.com/ and leave the referrer as me (FA22RaptorF22)and you will be my hero.


Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 29 June 2006 at 12:05am

Originally posted by S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

dont loctite anything. your tank is empty. it wont recock if there isnt enough air to recock it! get it filled then report back.


Originally posted by FA22RaptorF22 FA22RaptorF22 wrote:

No. Just like DeTreveni said, you dont thread lock anything. If you want at best, clean it all out, fill your tank, and screw hand tight.


Alright, this is a classic. Two people in a row that don't have a clue of what they are talking about.

right. im starting to get the feeling you dont like me much.

too bad.

here's what i heard: his gun wont recock, his tank was near empty, it made the "burrrrp" noise, there were no leaks, the valve set screws are there, and i have yet to hear him say anything about him refilling. those are the ingredients to an empty tank.

so tell me, by saying he was out of air, how was I "clueless?" if it was the loctite comment, you once again read too deep into what i said. my 98s valve screws arent loctited and my gun shoots fine. if loctiting makes it shoot better, super. i just said he was out of air.

please, stop crying over the smallest crap.



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Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"



Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 29 June 2006 at 12:13am
Refilled my tank, gun works fine.

So I SHOULD put locktitie on my velocity screws? How much and where would I apply it? I kinda hate messing with locktite there incase I have to remove the valve again it's gonna be a paint getting the powertube out.


Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 29 June 2006 at 12:13am
 DETREVNI --Well, he is firm on the locktiting of the valve screws...therefore that is what he is chastising us about...then again he is right and i edited another post because i realized that i do indeed do that.

And ok: Edit: put a drop or so locktite on the velocity screw and rub it around with your fingers.  Then put it in and move it in and out a bit.  Set it it a bit past flush with the gun and leave it for now.  Locktite the valve screws...with the gun assembled, unscrew them, apply locktite and screw em in...your done!


-------------
Please sign up at http://www.tippmannowners.com/ - http://www.tippmannowners.com/ and leave the referrer as me (FA22RaptorF22)and you will be my hero.


Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 29 June 2006 at 12:19am

right, so i WASNT talking about the loctite, i was talking about the air. now he filled it, it works fine, and you can put some loctite or thread sealant on the valve screws to seal it up.

happy logan?

back on subject, i prefer teflon tape over loctite, for the most part, because if you need to remove the screws after a while, it becomes easier. but since they are valve screws, and you shouldnt need to take them out for a while, loctite might be the best choice.



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Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"



Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 29 June 2006 at 12:19am
Originally posted by FA22RaptorF22 FA22RaptorF22 wrote:

 DETREVNI --Well, he is firm on the locktiting of the valve screws...therefore that is what he is chastising us about...then again he is right and i edited another post because i realized that i do indeed do that.

And ok: Edit: put a drop or so locktite on the velocity screw and rub it around with your fingers.  Then put it in and move it in and out a bit.  Set it it a bit past flush with the gun and leave it for now.  Locktite the valve screws...with the gun assembled, unscrew them, apply locktite and screw em in...your done!


Won't the locktite ruin the threading on the valve body?


Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 29 June 2006 at 12:22am
Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

right, so i WASNT talking about the loctite, i was talking about the air. now he filled it, it works fine, and you can put some loctite or thread sealant on the valve screws to seal it up.

happy logan?

back on subject, i prefer teflon tape over loctite, for the most part, because if you need to remove the screws after a while, it becomes easier. but since they are valve screws, and you shouldnt need to take them out for a while, loctite might be the best choice.



I'd rather just use teflon tape if I can only because I had a hard time taking those screws out the first time.


Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 29 June 2006 at 5:57pm
Chrisb319 -- No, use blue locktite, it comes off easier.

-------------
Please sign up at http://www.tippmannowners.com/ - http://www.tippmannowners.com/ and leave the referrer as me (FA22RaptorF22)and you will be my hero.


Posted By: S\/\/4T-L()G4N
Date Posted: 29 June 2006 at 11:22pm
The purpose of the loctite is two fold. Seal the threads (which teflon tape will also do) and to make sure the screws stay tight and in place.

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Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 29 June 2006 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

The purpose of the loctite is two fold. Seal the threads (which teflon tape will also do) and to make sure the screws stay tight and in place.


^^^Exactly


-------------
Please sign up at http://www.tippmannowners.com/ - http://www.tippmannowners.com/ and leave the referrer as me (FA22RaptorF22)and you will be my hero.


Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 30 June 2006 at 12:04am
I was playing with my gun today and it would randomly uncock itself I would have to manually re cock it to get it going again only for it to do teh same thing. I have had this problem before I replaced the CVX valve. I replaced my drive spring and pin, the only possible ting I can think of is the valve screws aren't locktited shut. I also don't hear the gun leaking any C02.


Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 30 June 2006 at 3:15pm
noticed something the gun only uncocks when I start to fire fast.


Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 01 July 2006 at 1:19am
Anyone got any ideas?


Posted By: pooperscooper
Date Posted: 01 July 2006 at 1:24am
My gun has done this for a long time.

Just recock it its no big deal

If it gets more frequent and annoying then try to fix it, but mine only does it like 2-3 times all day


Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 01 July 2006 at 3:30am
Originally posted by pooperscooper pooperscooper wrote:

My gun has done this for a long time.

Just recock it its no big deal

If it gets more frequent and annoying then try to fix it, but mine only does it like 2-3 times all day


I'm always shooting fast therefore, the problem happens quite frequently.


Posted By: Mehs
Date Posted: 01 July 2006 at 5:01am
Well, that sounds like a sear spring problem.  What do you have on your gun at the moment (including self modifications).


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[IMG]http://i27.tinypic.com/1538fbc.jpg">
Squeeze Box


Posted By: pooperscooper
Date Posted: 01 July 2006 at 12:32pm
I shoot fast alot.

When mine does it its usually at the begginning of a game or after I havent shot for a while sometimes its like not cocked all the way and i cock it and it shoots fine.


Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 01 July 2006 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by Mehs Mehs wrote:

Well, that sounds like a sear spring problem.  What do you have on your gun at the moment (including self modifications).


I have the R/T with flatline.

and http://model98.org/mods/silentsear.php - this mod which quiets the sear, however this problem happened before without this mod. The sear spring is brand new with the r/t.




Posted By: pooperscooper
Date Posted: 01 July 2006 at 2:23pm
Something Might be freezing up with fast firing of the RT but that seems unlikely (I dont have an RT so i dont know)


Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 01 July 2006 at 2:34pm
I don't know if this helps but, I do notice that my gun forms allot of condensation around it(water) is that normall?


Posted By: Shadowminion
Date Posted: 02 July 2006 at 9:01am

Condensation is normal if you're shooting CO2 .

The infrequent recocking problem , could be that condensate actually freezing inside your marker creating an obstruction to the motion of your rear bolt . (any forign object in the path of your rear bolt could cause this , as well as misalignment of parts , Ie; cvx valve loose , dirt/grit  )

Loctite 242 ( Blue) is removable and made for keeping screws from working loose , the Tippmann factory uses it to keep the CVX valve screws in place .

Another  (and more likely) cause of your recocking problem might be this , when you shoot with CO2 rapidly , the CO2 pressure in your tank lowers as the tank temperature drops , this is called  "Shootdown"  . The Tippmann is made to operate on High pressure , 850-900 PSI , so when the pressure drops much below 700 PSI (as it will do when shooting rapidly for any length of time (30 to 60 shots ?? ) there wont be enough pressure to cycle the marker properly . 

Try using shorter bursts , de-tuning your RT to a lower RoF , or shooting in semi mode . If you absolutely need , or want to sustain a high Rate of Fire , about the best option is switching to HPA (Nitro) .

It depends on your personal style of play and your pocketbook really ...



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SL68-II , micro honed and polished .688" bore . Tuff Enuf .
Widowmaker , under construction


Posted By: Chrisb319
Date Posted: 02 July 2006 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by Shadowminion Shadowminion wrote:

Condensation is normal if you're shooting CO2 .

The infrequent recocking problem , could be that condensate actually freezing inside your marker creating an obstruction to the motion of your rear bolt . (any forign object in the path of your rear bolt could cause this , as well as misalignment of parts , Ie; cvx valve loose , dirt/grit  )

Loctite 242 ( Blue) is removable and made for keeping screws from working loose , the Tippmann factory uses it to keep the CVX valve screws in place .

Another  (and more likely) cause of your recocking problem might be this , when you shoot with CO2 rapidly , the CO2 pressure in your tank lowers as the tank temperature drops , this is called  "Shootdown"  . The Tippmann is made to operate on High pressure , 850-900 PSI , so when the pressure drops much below 700 PSI (as it will do when shooting rapidly for any length of time (30 to 60 shots ?? ) there wont be enough pressure to cycle the marker properly . 

Try using shorter bursts , de-tuning your RT to a lower RoF , or shooting in semi mode . If you absolutely need , or want to sustain a high Rate of Fire , about the best option is switching to HPA (Nitro) .

It depends on your personal style of play and your pocketbook really ...



Thanks, but I read the manual; and there is no mention of locktite on those screws.


Posted By: Shadowminion
Date Posted: 03 July 2006 at 7:17am

Do they tell you in the manual that the cover for the cocking knob is made from plastic !? Believe me, it is .

Same with the CVX valve ,,, they use loctite to keep the screws in place , . There is collectively well over 100 years of experience from the gold and platinum forum members who've already posted in this thread , Pay attention and learn .

 

(Yer about two sentences away from being called a "Snot nosed Noob")



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SL68-II , micro honed and polished .688" bore . Tuff Enuf .
Widowmaker , under construction


Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by Shadowminion Shadowminion wrote:

Condensation is normal if you're shooting CO2 .

The infrequent recocking problem , could be that condensate actually freezing inside your marker creating an obstruction to the motion of your rear bolt . (any forign object in the path of your rear bolt could cause this , as well as misalignment of parts , Ie; cvx valve loose , dirt/grit  )

Loctite 242 ( Blue) is removable and made for keeping screws from working loose , the Tippmann factory uses it to keep the CVX valve screws in place .

Another  (and more likely) cause of your recocking problem might be this , when you shoot with CO2 rapidly , the CO2 pressure in your tank lowers as the tank temperature drops , this is called  "Shootdown"  . The Tippmann is made to operate on High pressure , 850-900 PSI , so when the pressure drops much below 700 PSI (as it will do when shooting rapidly for any length of time (30 to 60 shots ?? ) there wont be enough pressure to cycle the marker properly . 

Try using shorter bursts , de-tuning your RT to a lower RoF , or shooting in semi mode . If you absolutely need , or want to sustain a high Rate of Fire , about the best option is switching to HPA (Nitro) .

It depends on your personal style of play and your pocketbook really ...



Hey bud.... its not blue locktite they use... they use red (high strength) on everything.  I personally like blue better but they use red.


Posted By: Shadowminion
Date Posted: 03 July 2006 at 7:31pm

Loctite 242 is blue and is removable , is there a dispute with that statement ?

Is there a dispute that Tippmann uses loctite in the assembly of their markers , specifically holding the CVX valve screws in place ? 

I dont understand what your question or whatever is , please clarify any information I've presented you feel is wrong . Oh, I see , actually Tippmann uses a wicking grade of loctite (green, and very low viscosity) , but its still loctite . Point is , they use a removable loctite . I've been using Loctite products since they came to market in the mid 70's and am quite familiar with most of their holding/sealing products

  I doubt they've ever used High strength loctite on any of their fastners , you see loctite 272 (Red) can only be removed with the application of heat (as in a torch) , and will shear a 1/4-20 bolt off , but hey ,if you want to use 272 , more power to Ya , Yer gonna need it  !!

Anyways , like I said in your other thread where you felt you werent getting the answers you were looking for Chris , look to the Gold and Platinum forum members here for a wealth of information . A lot of the other members here know quite a bit too , and some just think they do , so you have to sort of "Weed-out" a lot of whats said . I would not completely trust even the virtue of being "Gold member" , since the forum went to a post count criteria for that "Honor"(?). If you hear it from several Plat's , you can almost take it to the bank !!

If you want more information on "CO2 vs. HPA" I suggest doing a search on the topic , there was a thread last week that covered the pro's and cons of both power sources quite comprehensively .

I'm still betting on shoot down . 



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SL68-II , micro honed and polished .688" bore . Tuff Enuf .
Widowmaker , under construction


Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:52pm
I believe there may be many types of red because on all the tippmann's i have gotten, there has been red crap filling up the valve screw holes.  Unless it wasn't locktite...but it must be because they give you a little white tube of red locktite with many of the parts you can buy from them...ie ex chamber...


Posted By: S\/\/4T-L()G4N
Date Posted: 03 July 2006 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by FA22RaptorF22 FA22RaptorF22 wrote:

I believe there may be many types of red because on all the tippmann's i have gotten, there has been red crap filling up the valve screw holes. Unless it wasn't locktite...but it must be because they give you a little white tube of red locktite with many of the parts you can buy from them...ie ex chamber...


Sorry shadow, but this one time I am with Raptor. I have yet to find any blue loctite on any of the Tippmann's I have worked on. There is a possibility that it was PURPLE, but I have never seen blue. With that said, I always replace it with blue

Another with that said, I have also never needed to use head to remove it, but the loctite from the factory is by FAR stronger than blue, have a red color, but does not ALWAYS require heat.

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Posted By: Shadowminion
Date Posted: 04 July 2006 at 10:47am

Fair enough .

The point I was trying to beat to death , was that Tippmann does use Loctite , I think thats been established now .

Thanks !



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SL68-II , micro honed and polished .688" bore . Tuff Enuf .
Widowmaker , under construction


Posted By: ro_ck_solid_x
Date Posted: 07 July 2006 at 1:27pm
my 98 custom is a little bit older and i dont recall it coming with loctite on the valve screws which i could be wrong about but my little brothers is a lot newer and did come with red loctite on them

also another problem that can cause uncocking is using the wrong oil to lubricate your gun. petroleum based oils can cause rubber components like certain o rings to swell up. while i dont know if the rear bolt o ring is rubber or not i have heard of them swelling up and not going smoothly in and out of the powertube robbing it of velocity needed to recock


Posted By: FA22RaptorF22
Date Posted: 08 July 2006 at 10:54am
Originally posted by ro_ck_solid_x ro_ck_solid_x wrote:

...also another problem that can cause uncocking is using the wrong oil to lubricate your gun. petroleum based oils can cause rubber components like certain o rings to swell up.


^^^No.  Im not going to get into the petrolleum jelly debate now....but it has been tested by me and others to never hurt o rings one bit.  Maybe its the material the rings are made of...but ive never had a problem with that stuff.  On heavy moving parts (bolts in mechs..) and reg parts i like to use p jelly.  Also, maybe it could be the type of p jelly...we use industrial grade stuff...maybe that could be the difference.  Later guys.


Posted By: RavenGuard
Date Posted: 09 July 2006 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Shadowminion Shadowminion wrote:

Loctite 242 ( Blue) is removable and made for keeping screws from working loose , the Tippmann factory uses it to keep the CVX valve screws in place .



The tippmann factory uses RED loctite, and infact sent me a bottle of it when I had to swap out valves myself.


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Tippmann A-5
Polished Internals
E-Grip
Ape Board
JCS Blade Trigger
QEV
8" Bigshot + Apex
Ricochet R-5 / Tac Cap
Palmers Stabilizer
68/4500 Crossfire


Posted By: tippya5extreme
Date Posted: 09 July 2006 at 9:13pm
yeah lol. i was working on my dads gun and i put locktite (red) under the power tube. i opened it up again but this time i couldn't moce the power tube. after that i relized that is was fasend to the receivers with screws. the locktite i put in it didn't do much. i wiped that all out and then relubed it all up.      crazy mistake, isn't it.

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http://imageshack.us">
tippya5extreme


Posted By: cells16902
Date Posted: 13 July 2006 at 11:36pm
my gun does this too but instead of uncocking all the way it cocks about 3/4 of the way and then stops..im not sure why



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