What are we doing wrong?
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Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
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URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=160175
Printed Date: 22 December 2025 at 8:41pm
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Topic: What are we doing wrong?
Posted By: Clark Kent
Subject: What are we doing wrong?
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 2:05pm
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Another week, another school shooting. I don't recall hearing about any school shootings elsewhere in the world (terrorist attacks don't count). I'm sure they occur, but resumably not with our frequency. This can't be random. Any thoughts on causes of this behavior? I have some half-baked theories, but I'm curious to see what people think. |
Replies:
Posted By: PlentifulBalls
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 2:18pm
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Kids suck?
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sporx wrote: well...ya i prolly will be a virgin till i'm at least 30. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 2:21pm
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That is one theory, but given that nobody seems to be shooting up the schools in France, it should properly stated as "American kids suck, and other kids don't". |
PlentifulBalls wrote:Posted By: Apotheosis
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 2:34pm
| I think it is pathetic. In Montreal(sp) the kid had an automatic weapon, yet he only killed one person. In Colorado, the guy only killed one person, but at one point he had six hostages. Cmon guys, it can't be that hard. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 2:55pm
| Actually, I had forgotten about Montreal guy. To some extent that argues against my "it's only Americans" theory, although there is obviously significant cultural overlap with Canadians (even the Frenchies). |
Posted By: Apotheosis
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 2:57pm
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To your credit, they are Americans as well. A different breed, but Americans all the same. What other school shootings have occoured recently? |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 2:59pm
| One in Wisconsin today, another in Wisconsin narrowly averted a couple of weeks ago. |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:07pm
| there was a school shooting in WI today? |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:10pm
| http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15060698/ - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15060698/ |
Posted By: RicWhic414
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:19pm
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i dont no what else to do... other then turn our schools into jails basically
------------- Tuesday starts the weekend... YAYAYA!!!! CHUFF CHUFF |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:20pm
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Maybe if people hugged each other more, this wouldn't happen.
-------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:28pm
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Maybe the legal types doing all they can to blame everything and everybody but the perp's personal responsibility for crimes?
Current child and minor criminal laws not an effective deterant? And the ever present video game/music and violence therories? Guns are just a tool, the gun does not kill, the individual who pulls the trigger kills, contrary to some beliefs. ------------- 
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Posted By: RicWhic414
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:34pm
this is true high school is a weird time for everyone... the teenage mind is so strange ( one of the reasons im becoming a teacher) ------------- Tuesday starts the weekend... YAYAYA!!!! CHUFF CHUFF |
Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:35pm
| Back to school stress? |
Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:38pm
Knives. ------------- |
Posted By: Sammy
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:41pm
That one shooting with the hostages wasn't a kid.. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:44pm
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Can I restate your point as "we have created a culture with a lack of a sense of personal responsibility"?
But our laws are much harsher than similar laws in Europe, for instance. Shouldn't they have more shootings in Europe?
This factor also is similarly in place in Europe and East Asia, but (TMK) they don't have school shootings.
I'm not sure that's quite true. Guns are also a cultural phenomeon, particularly in this country. Guns have a place in our culture, and I don't think we can easily discount the impact of guns on our behavior. I don't think (of course) that there is a single cause of this behavior, but the out of proportion frequency in the US does lead me to believe that there is something going on here. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:44pm
------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:47pm
| i blame video games. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 4:06pm
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haha actually did an essay on that... found a graph showing that violent crimes have decreased since video game consoles were made ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: STOcocker
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 4:12pm
| Just before homecoming. What a shame. |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 4:26pm
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how many college shootings have there been?
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 4:34pm
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I blame rap music.
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 4:35pm
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Interesting question - and how many here versus elsewhere? |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 4:38pm
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i only ask because there were many fights at my high school. but now in college, nobody seems to carry hate around. granted, it was a large public high school and i'd bet that most of the people involved in fights are not attending a university.
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 4:42pm
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And that rolls into one of my theories - aggression. Our high schools are very aggressive places in general. Much more so than society at large. It's not just about the shooting, I think. |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 5:13pm
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How to get rid of the aggression? Free hugs daily. -------------
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Posted By: paintbusta
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 5:56pm
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ive been shot nine times but i dont walk with a limp ------------- 
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 6:04pm
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I think schools need more security. I remember an argument awhile back about putting metal detectors in schools. Seems like an ok idea. Personally I just think these kids that are doing this are retarded. ------------- 
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 6:18pm
And that may help stop future shootings - but it doesn't help understand WHY we are having these problems in the first place. |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 6:27pm
| I would say American kids are weak. Plain and simple. They grow up being spoiled. Then they become teenages and cant deal with the slightest adversity or being told no. They cant handle anything. Their lifestlye is generally a lot easier and they cant handle the slightest problem because theyve always had a mommy or daddy or both helping them with everyhting. |
Posted By: daniero
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 6:28pm
Want to laugh?? There was an incident here in an elemmentary school in Mexico, a stray dog entered a classroom and bit 6 kids  .That's just stupid. ------------- Silver Invert Mini Yellow 'Cocker 
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 6:29pm
No. |
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 6:34pm
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So Americans are weak/spoiled, and freak out and start shooting when the going gets tough in HS? Could be. I wonder how that interrelates with suicide, which would seem to be another likely result of that situation. Interesting little discussion. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 6:36pm
That WOULD explain the trends in music lately. |
Posted By: TEHGANGSTER
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 6:46pm
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liberal media
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I am a leaf on the wind, watch how i soar. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 6:53pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting - Here's a list of school shootings ------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 10:15pm
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People don't teach their kids how to treat people anymore....From my observations, our society is currently experiencing a rather large deficite in the areas of deciency and respect....
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Posted By: pimptastik
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 10:33pm
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Well no shootings in New Jersey. I wouldn't be suprised if my school got shot up. There are a ton of kids that seem like if you make fun of them enough there bringing in a glock. ------------- <no ginormous sigs please> |
Posted By: Pate
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 1:17am
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According to Wiki the US only has two more shootings then the rest of the world together.
I think a major reason there are more school shootings in high school is becasue there is more hazing, more interaction with the school as a whole,and that high school is manditory(for the most part). Peopl ein college arent being forced there (for the most part again) and usually have a high IQ to realise that because someones being a "bully" (for lack of a better word) doesnt mean you need to go around and shoot people up. I had more to say on this but its late and I forgot after reading the wiki. ------------- 
It feels good to be a gangster |
Posted By: Galm </\> Zero
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 11:23am
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I had this same question with ADD, ADHD etc. Is it really a problem or is it a problem with our way of raising our children. -------------  |
Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 2:19pm
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I partially agree with the lack of parenting theory.
Kids don't know how to solve their problems, so they try to work their way around the problem by using improper means to eliminate it. That, and I believe that most children in this country are no longer taught to respect firearms from a young age. I honestly believe that many kids don't really understand the concept that shooting someone is going to kill, if not seriously injure someone. Even at the highschool level kids are that ignorant. There is too much of a stigma around guns in this country, and that is leading to ignorance and irresponsibility with firearms. Something that points to the fact that most of these kids probably don't know jack about guns is (this is going to sound terrible) their terrible kill rate. If they had any idea what they were doing, there wouldn't be one or two kids dead per shooting. Someone even reasonably trained with a weapon should be able to clear out quite a few unarmed kids/teachers.... Just about every person I've met that has been brought up around guns knows damn well not to do something stupid like bring one in to school. ------------- 
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 3:48pm
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To truely know you'd have to look at the situation from. Hey a bird!!
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Galm </\> Zero
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 3:55pm
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Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 4:18pm
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From the standpoint of the son of a retired HighSchool teacher: I think it is primarly kids are just plain babied. I cant even begin to tell you the lengths of idiocy some parents will go to, just to get their kids out of a bad grade. For some reason a decent number of parents now adays think their kids are infallable, and gods gift to this world. Those kids go about doing what ever, when ever, and never worry about the reprocutions because mommy and daddy are right there to bail them out. At the same time, Mommy and Daddy never teach their kids a thing about life, interaction, or personal respect because their kids wont listen to them. It all comes down to poor parenting, Literaly spoiling the child. Not to mention the pressure on the school from all these "Mommy and Dadies" to lower the standards to fit to their kids ideal situation, dumbing it down for every one. Public schools have no means to actualy punish their students, and will rarly go to any length of discipline for fear that parents will uproar. Teachers will get lashed out at more than the actual student in question, because that teacher is causeing "conflict" in the student/parent/teacher relationship. Which makes the school adminstration nervous that mommy and daddy will pull their kid out of the school, and with the little funding they get, they need every student they can get. In order to do that, they satisfy any students parents, typicaly. It's the country being to "nice", political correctness, no child left behind, etc etc. Kids raised up, just being babied; think they can get away with anything, and the moment that is contradicted they snap. These youth know exactly what they are doing, and should be treated as such. "Oh little billy did'nt know what he was doing when he took that pistol to school" is bull. Dont baby some one who felt he could act like an adult, treat him as such. As for mental disorders. That is a tricky line for me. I personaly think that a few cases of ADD, ADHD and so on and so forth are legit, but the mainstay are just being babied. Nothings wrong with you, you just want to blame it on something else, so you dont have to deal with it. When I was being raised, my dad would bend me over his knee, if I even talked back to him. He taught me respect, same deal with my mother. They taught me that punishment will be swift. My dad allowed me to question him, and argue him on almost anything, just to make me think. My parents taught me to think freely, but to keep it in line. Once I got to thirteen, if I got myself into trouble, in most instances as long as my parents felt I could, I would have to bail myself out. No mommy and daddy flieing into save me. They were always there, incase I needed it, but they wanted me to do it on my own. Later on down the line, when my dad started acting up, we got in eachothers faces, and after his first move, got in a large fight. Once it was all said and done, we moved on... and are still good pals. He respected me for standing up for what I felt was right, for doing what he taught me. Parents are not supposed to be a childs constant safty net, a constant friend. They are supposed to be a parent, tough love comes with the job discription. Problem is, Alot of parents pen that part out. Just my two cents. ------------- |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 4:48pm
Incorrect. He had a Beretta CX4 Storm carbine. Pistol rounds form ten round mags. Legally owned, I'll add. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 5:18pm
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i discussed this with my dad and he added, clark, that it could probably be attributed to a sub culture of deviant behavior. not your average "oh i want a tattoo because it is hXc" deviance, but the violent, screw-authority deviance. he also mentioned it, not like a direct cause, could be partly curbed by parental involvement. i wouldn't say parental control issues, but just a lack of involvement in their academic career or interest in their well-being. his two cents.. -------------
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Posted By: Heres To You
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 11:45pm
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I blame Bush. I just figured I would say it before someone else did... But every country has problems, be it bombings or whatever else. I don't think saying the youth today are crazy is going to fix it. Kids in todays world are always considered stupid, yet more of them are asked more of today than in years past (education wise). Could just be stress, or a combination of things. ------------- |
Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 01 October 2006 at 9:51pm
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I'm going to have to go with the whole sheltered kids idea. They're so isolated from the consequences of their actions and protected from any responsibility, killing somebody seems to be a real decision with real consequences. It's an important action, not the usual decision or action with no real meaning compared to average highschooler decisions. Also, constantly seeing other kids get away with stuff when their parents intervene probably enrages kids who's parents don't. I don't have any hard data, but it doesn't seem like a majority of these shootings happen in inner city schools where there's a local violence problem. Maybe those shootings just don't get the press, but my idea is that inner city kids are more likely to have experiance with people they know being killed, it seems more "real" to them. But I may be talking out my anus. Frankly, non of these cases seem to involve people planning to make it out of the situation alive. If they don't go down in a hail of gunfire they off themselves before they risk only being wounded and risk not finishing the job. The factors that contribute to these actions must not be unlike those that contribute to suicide, just adding the idea that others must pay for the way they feel as well. The added factors are just the way of blaming others and making excuses for themselves, and gaining noteriety in the process. |
Posted By: Enos Shenk
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 12:05am
Yes they do, at least most parents I know do. The problem is that high school age kids glorify being jackasses. Hell, its readily apparent just reading some posts on this forum. All the kids practically salivate when a flamewar starts up. Or just look at video games nowdays, "d00d i pwnd u so hard lolz0rz n00b!" And everyone has a limit of crap they can take from arrogant jackasses. ------------- 
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Posted By: an94
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 2:38am
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I just have to add this: Its not the weapons fault. Did God ban the rocks that was used to commite the first murder? I blame people on TV saying "Im cool... Ive been In jail for this & for that!!!" WHY do people brag about that? these kids that Ive heard about are just looking for attention anyway they can. Here is some "school work" for the KIDS: go up to as many kids as you can & ask them "how are you doing today?" and I mean not your friends. someone that you are not friends with. this world can not change till we LOVE everyone, even our enemys. and if someone has something against you, tell them "God loves you, so that means I can love you too." this may not sound COOL but it will just get worse if you dont. ------------- 1 paintball gun package=$150 1 case of paint=$50 air & entry fee=$15 lighting up newbies all day long= Priceless |
Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 2:43am
Oh boy. Now this is gonna be a religious debate... ------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell" 
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Posted By: hybrid-sniper
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 2:49am
We can always count on you for brainwashed posts. |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 3:44am
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I'm going to go ahead and support the weak, sheltered idea. Growing up in Hawaii one thing I've noticed students here have no fear of fighting. If two people have a conflict they beat the crap out of each other, call it even and get along fine. From what I've seen in my limited view of the mainland, people more tend to just argue or backstab or similar non-physical attacks. In the cases where people do fight, it tends to be more over gang related things or some such. This is a limited view though so bear with me. To my understanding there havent been school shootings in Hawaii, I think its because students release that hatered and agression through fighting wheras on the mainland, these emotions get buried and build up until someone cracks and pulls a gun. My other thought is gangs. In other countries, how many of them have gangs active in schools? How many of them have rival factions in the same classes? ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 11:46am
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One word!
Violent video games! /sarcasm |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 11:50am
Yeah, because all these white boy school shooters are all gangstas' these days. Those Trailer Row Rednecks had better not walk over to the Trench Coat Mafia turf. |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 3:06pm
Um, I'm reffering more to the rash of really violent gang fights in Hawaii recently. http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/9959675/detail.html?subid=22100441&qs=1;bp=t - Link There have been a rash of these things lately in Hawaii and it makes sense it could be some part. But I dont think any of these school shootings have had gang memebers involved. I'm just going off what we have in Hawaii, but I'd assume it could be similar on the mainland. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 3:16pm
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I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the parents who do not teach their children respect. In fact, I believe it stems back to the 1960's when there was an influx of people who refused to support governmental ideals, which was nothing NEW, but on this scale, perhaps it was. This fostered a distrust in authority, and when these people had children, rather than become authority figures over them and emulate the establishments that they so despised, they encouraged bad bahavior mistaking it for creativity, they applauded rebellion mistaking it for individuality. These kids grew up and are now having kids, and had absolutely nothing in the way of learned parenting skills. They either over parent or underparent, either one leads to messy ends. Underparenting encourages misguided behavior and the belief that actions have no consequences. Overparenting encourages rebellion. This I believe is the problem. Its not the schools, its not the government, its not the video games, it is the failure of parents in one way or another in teaching right from wrong. It is as simple as that. ------------- ? |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 3:18pm
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I, disagree with the theory that fear of gangs and their members, here on the mainland, are the cause of students choosing to bring guns to their campus.
More like bullies and hopes of retaliation. |
Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 3:18pm
| reb, that actually makes sense. too bad no one will ever care enough to teach their kids respect though |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 3:19pm
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I'm with Hades as far as the reason people brong weapons to schools. retaliation seems to be the cause for most of it. Response to having been pushed a little too far by bullies. ------------- ? |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 3:23pm
I never said that, my point was I wouldnt be suprised if gangs were somehow involved in the school shootings, such as one rival gang attacking another's school. I also said right after that I doubt its the case because none of the shootings mention anything about gang involvement. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: ¤ RaVeN ¤
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 4:12pm
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i agree with enos, kids these days are way to arrogant...look at how many fights break out due to a confict of egos...go to http://www.youtube.com - www.youtube.com and search "fights" and look at all the videos of teens fighting and how everyone else in the videos react...then read the youtube members comments on the videos and you can see the arrogance that kids and teens have these days...personaly i think "preps", "jocks", and "gangsters" are to blame for 90% of the problem...i just graduated last year...and those three main classes cannot keep their mouths shut nor their hands to themselfs...they always are looking for a fight so they can have something to brag about or try and pump themselfs up even further. if you look at "goths", and "emos" they pretty much stick to themselfs or to their friends, and for the most part try and avoid conflicts...and yes i do think this is music related...if you can learn information during your sleep from tapes then why cant music change your personality? rap music(if you can call it that) is nothing but a bunch of ego driven lyrics about being a thug, being violent and in chagre and having power, and totaly obsesed with showy stuff...people who listen to this alot are obviously going to take some of this to heart and take it to far, beliving that listing to it makes them someone more then they are, or that they are better then someone else...then they go around talking down to other people and picking on people who arnt just like them...then the people who are picked on...play video games to excape reality...their tired of their life at school and the life they cant escape being picked on by everyone else...so they seclude themselfs away at home after school and play "violent" video games to release their aggression and frustrations...but after a while they just snap...i suppose they get tired of hiding it all away and figure the only way to solve the problem is to get rid of the problem, i.e. the people picking on them for being differnet...if you look closely you can notice that the rap folowing has gotten larger...and there has been a change in the main rock scene to a more emotionaly related and more somber tone...back in the day when it was just rock for the most part there was bands like ac/dc whos songs were upbeat and about enjoyable things...and as the rap folowing grows, rock shifts more to being sad and sorrowful...and often times you will notice that kids who are babies as mentioned will listen to rap...because since they are already high on themselfs from getting what ever they wanted as a child and didnt have to go though any hardships in life they just further pump their egos...but kids who listen to rock for the most part grew up slightly or majorly harder then others, such as having abusive parents and things like that often leave the person with a low sence of self worth and often being sad...which leads them to turn to rock...thats not all i have to say...but i need to go... ------------- 
ions are like mustangs...alot of people have them but not many know how to use them... |
Posted By: TEHGANGSTER
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 4:13pm
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tl:dr
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I am a leaf on the wind, watch how i soar. |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 4:18pm
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Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:19pm
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I like watching fight videos. There's one series of fight videos that are amazing, but I can't think of the name right now.
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:36pm
First off, I dont know what your talking about because I have never seen a "prep" get into a fight. Mainly its "jocks" and the "goth" or "hardcore" and or "punk" kids. Emo people dont fight. Its impossible. Also alot of modern metal lyrics are alot more violent than rap. You here more about the rap because its very mainstream now. Just look up some Cannible Corpse lyrics. Kids are to blame. Not music, not TV, not video games. Plane and simple. I listen to music about violence and I have yet to shoot someone. Everyone gets into fights. Its not specific to groups.
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:50pm
I think we are perhaps confusing two concepts - "blame" and "cause". In our society we have decided that an individual is generally personally responsible for his own actions, so the blame lands on him if he does something wrong. Clearly the blame belongs to the shooter, at least until our society changes its rules. But cause is not so simple - it isn't up for a vote, nor is it easy to discern. And just because we blame somebody for something, that doesn't mean that they are necessarily the cause of that thing. Heck, even defining "cause" can be very difficult. Here, for instance - decades of research have shown quite convincingly that exposure of children to violent material, be it music, video, pictures, role models, whatever, tends to lead to violent behavior. That doesn't mean that everybody who watches Sin City will go torture somebody - it just means that there is an effect, at least on the average. Clearly exposure to violence in society is part of the cause of these school shootings, yet we mostly do not blame Marylin. I am also interested in this "kids are weak" position. A psychologist who works with college students described it more clinically as "entitlement". There is a sense of entitlement among many American youths, and they often do freak out when things don't go their way. It would certainly also make sense if this were part of the cause. This certainly makes sense, considering that (at least it seems to me) most of these shootings are in white upper-middle-class environments, where entitlement issues are most prevalent. But I keep asking myself - aren't these issues also present in Europe and Canada, at least, if not in the rest of the world? Why no shootings there? |
Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 6:36pm
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Highschool is the time when a lot of people start to be concerned over how a trivial matter such as extra-cirricular activites can affect college, and therefore, career choices. Those who lack some sort of group to fit into start feeling like the world really isn't going to change after highschool, or at least, not for the better. They figure that since life sucks now and it's just going to get worse, they better get off the ride while they can and take a few people with them. If you can't take them all, then at least the rest will be taught a lesson. The problem is that these kids don't realize that you don't need to go to a top school to have a future, and that in a few years, the guys who are still hung up on highschool are looked at with pity since that was obviously the high point of their lives. When the future seems unreal and consequences unimagineable, you can allow yourself to do some crazy stuff. When it looks like reality is actually going to catch up, like looming graduation, or police storming the building, they check out. "There are two types of people in the world, those who divide everyone into two groups, and everyone else." I think that sums up our problem. When they can't associate with the rest of the community, it's easier to kill them. |
Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 6:49pm
| Im going to take a different stance. The shooters become celebrities, they are all over the news 24/7. Its suicide by media. Think about it, these losers couldn't get a date with the "fat chick" now they are mister popular....even if they are dead, they are finally recognized. |
Posted By: ¤ RaVeN ¤
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 7:07pm
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intresting point -------------
ions are like mustangs...alot of people have them but not many know how to use them... |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 7:08pm
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I certainly think this is a significant part of the cause. Absolutely. And I also think this is why part of the cause also lies with the gun culture of the US, as well as the easy access to guns here. Many kids around the world have probably wanted to make a statement at some point, but may have cancelled the plans when the baddest weapon they could get their hands on was a kitchen knife. A gun makes a statement. Many guns make a big statement. Notice how in Columbine in particular the guys were clearly on some movie-style assault mission. Not just one gun with lots of ammo (which would have been more efficient), but many guns of different kinds, movie/video game-style. Taking a knife to school and stabbing one guy before getting rassled to the ground isn't sexy. Going down in a blaze of glory, Butch Cassidy style, is sexy. |
Posted By: TEHGANGSTER
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 7:16pm
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this random dude (thug gangster type) beat up my friend for no reason.........he may have a point about music
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I am a leaf on the wind, watch how i soar. |
Posted By: ¤ RaVeN ¤
Date Posted: 02 October 2006 at 7:55pm
of course you pick the worst band of them all...corpse isisnt even in america...their in norway...and none of my friends who listen to rock/metal like corpse because their so over the top and crazy about everything... becides thats only one band out of how many rock bands? how many rapers have songs talking about killing people, fighting, whores ect...
my cusins boyfriend was over my house one night, we live in a mostly black neighborhod where they all listen to rap...well her boyfriends brother came over to pick him up...he got out of the car and he had just got back from being over in iraq and was wearing his wide leg pants and this dude across the street yelled "hey (bword), whats with your (f) pants", he said "shut the (f) up" and about 2-3 seconds later 3 dudes jumped him and busted his lip nearly completly though... -------------
ions are like mustangs...alot of people have them but not many know how to use them... |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 12:21am
I am reading the research as of late and I am not convinced. 
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Posted By: ekeboo
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 12:32am
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Well in my school most every kid carries a knife on him or at least a leatherman. most of them are like benchmades and gerbers. nothing over 3 inches. but there still knives but no one has been hurt at our school. i blame phsyco kids.
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Posted By: darkSIDEofMOON
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 11:33am
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well first off i think the reason you hear alot about the shootings right now is because where the first one took place. it was in colorado which is the same state where the worst one of these shootings happened. and then other shootings happened and they caught the eye of the media more. i remember reading a list of school shootings that were never mentioned in the media before Colombine(?) and these were from highschools who had mostly black students. so my thinking is that many school shootings happen each year but you never hear of them, due to the fact that people expect them to happen in certain areas. but when they happen again in Colorado or an Amish community its a little more shocking. btw these last few shootings, well Colorado and Amish, these were not students but random guys running into the schools and taking hosteges. but as to why shootings happen...that is a hard question. you can blame it on anything and the truth is that there is no real answer to that question. it all comes from a different area and is involved with a different part of something. so to place blame on one particular person, thing, game, section of america, history, etc. is very short sighted. ------------- oh no, strikes...watch out now..oooohhh |
Posted By: RicWhic414
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 12:36pm
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I would just like to add my two cents... I would have to say it is mostly a teenage mentality... teenages all think they can do whatever they want whenever they want to... i blame mostly the parents... im sorry but i feel like if you are raised the right way you will no that shooting people is something you shouldnt do.. just a thought
------------- Tuesday starts the weekend... YAYAYA!!!! CHUFF CHUFF |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 3:09pm
Ummm. As much as I disagree with the first statement, I fail to see how you can follow it up and put this:
How do you manage to follow one with the other? -------------
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:49pm
Corpse by far isnt the worst band. If your a metal head you know who they are, no matter what country your in. I live in Florida and 80% of the bands I listen to are from Norway and other places like that. I chose CC because I thought alot of people on here would know them. And metal is always an over the top genre. -------------
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Posted By: TEHGANGSTER
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:55pm
im sorry you live among the rednecks -------------
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how i soar. |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:56pm
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Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 6:40pm
I know that the only reason I listen to metal and rock music is because my daddy gets drunk and shoots holes in the wall with his shotgun  ------------- 
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Posted By: CQB_NINja
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 9:36pm
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its social circles. people see how fake things are. -If you somehow become banished from a social scene who hogs all the women, and theyre a buncha dudes who seem like theyd actually enjoy showering together, and you have nowhere to go because your out in the middle of nowhere, and you have a few other maniacal friends in the same boat, you snap it seems like a good idea to kill as many kids who you feel have cast you out to wither away. one format i guess. -as for the girls who get shot, all the ones you try to interact (all the ones you know) with gives you a scrunched up face or something and laughs to their friend -god told them to do it -its the cool new trend out in the land of nowhere. -that canadian punk is pathetic... Usually the mentality of anyone who would bring a gun to school and shoot their peers and have those images burned into their brain are a delicate case, like they snap, or somehow the wiring in their brain is changed to make it seem ok to do it. But this canadian punk, was acting like a rock star. He didnt look tormented at all, he seemed like he just wanted to do it to be cool, and he shot girls. argh. id like to atleast see a crowbar rampage targeting the toughest and meanest kids in the school. ------------- *TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC* *POP...POP* "HIT"...>=[ |
Posted By: CQB_NINja
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 10:20pm
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as for random guys going into schools? Its probably a group that hired them (let him live lavishly for a 1 month-year) if he agreed to shoot up a school and create a stand off. I wouldnt know why. Were there any demands? Do they just go on a suicide mission to shoot kids, take hostages for a few hours and kill themselves? there is way too much of the real story that we dont know like, what kind of adventure were they on before they go to the school. I know it eats us all alive to know that we'll never be %100 sure. ------------- *TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC* *POP...POP* "HIT"...>=[ |
Posted By: darkSIDEofMOON
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 2:15pm
conspiracy type of person you are. the colorado one the guy was a molester. why he took hostages for that reason, still under investigation. the amish killings, the guy lost it. he had a child (a girl) who died and people said he slowly lost it. something in him snapped and he wanted to kill girls. but if you want to make a statement, like a group hiring these people for a month, i think killing 3-5 people isn't really going to do anything. and plus groups like this generally take the blame for self promotion. ------------- oh no, strikes...watch out now..oooohhh |
Posted By: Hippymon
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 5:07pm
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hahahaha, yea.. there was a school around here, Washington High School, shut down do to a possible threat.. pretty cool, I hope alot more people die. ------------- w0000t trolling is my specialty. |
Posted By: Hippymon
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 5:08pm
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no need to be sorry, if you are living among us you have more access to racists, tobacco, weed, gunrs, beer, and other good stuff. ------------- w0000t trolling is my specialty. |
Posted By: STOcocker
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 5:35pm
Wait wait wait... Racism is a good thing? That is messed up if you consider racism part of the "good stuff". |
Posted By: Savage93fvss
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 6:05pm
| I blame the fact that kids barely get any disipline anymore, I grew up getting the crap beat out of me if I did something wrong. It was'nt abuse, ya it hurt, but only enough to keep me from doing that certian thing again. I got brought up right, respect for elders, treating woman with respect. I feel like an outcast in todays youth because I'm one of the few that act decent. That's only for the kids that shoot up schools though, as for the adults.......hell I dont know, 15 minutes of fame maybe? |
Posted By: Roll Tide
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 7:16pm
My guess is that he's a troll. ------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules> 
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 7:20pm
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You got something against us? -------------
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Posted By: battlefreak
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 7:54pm
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