Cockers!
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Which Gun is Best
Forum Description: Need Advice? Ask the pros.
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=162024
Printed Date: 18 July 2025 at 8:43pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Cockers!
Posted By: Yomillio
Subject: Cockers!
Date Posted: 23 November 2006 at 6:01pm
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Im lookin at buying an 05 prostock off ebay. I want to keep it mech for a while, but i like the fact the the option to go electric is always there. I was looking at other mech cockers and cocker clones, but im not really sure whats avalible for about 250. I dont really mind buying new, but my biggest deal is making sure it comes with a manual. I am completely lost without one. But anyways, im looking for opinions on the prostock, but what ive found so far they are good markers. Also, are there any other high end mech's out there i can pick up for no more than 250? Thanks. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: jerseypaint
Date Posted: 23 November 2006 at 10:38pm
| Just buy the prostock. Its fully customizable and you can do anything you basically want to it. |
Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 24 November 2006 at 8:42am
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Okay, well im pretty sure im gettin the 05 prostock, but what shouldf be my first priority on upgrades? I want to decrease cycle times, so ill most likely pick up some eclipse QEV's, and maybe an Evil cocking rod. A stiffi bolt may come eventually. What i want most to know is if a polished trigger plate and roller sear would work in these trigger frames? -------------
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Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 24 November 2006 at 12:53pm
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You can get really nice used cockers for $250, i saw a dye cocker go for close to that- maybe a reflex? I dont remember
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hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 24 November 2006 at 5:57pm
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well, i got the 05 PS... ill post picks of it and my 98 when i get it -------------
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 24 November 2006 at 5:59pm
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I would have gotten the '04. More upgrade options IMO, since the '05 is p-block. ------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell" 
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Posted By: jerseypaint
Date Posted: 24 November 2006 at 6:19pm
I actually never knew that. Hmm. |
DeTrevni wrote:Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 24 November 2006 at 7:46pm
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p-block? lol can you tell i dont know cockers? -------------
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 24 November 2006 at 8:04pm
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P-block is in reference to the back block. If you look at the '05, its back block looks like a "P." The '04 fits flush against the body. Most aftermarket blocks are flat like that. It's no big deal really. ------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 25 November 2006 at 6:45am
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Got it. You kinda had me worried... i thought it may have been something with the front block and i wouldn't have been able to mount aftermarket pneums... ah well i feel better now :) -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 25 November 2006 at 1:57pm
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Ahhhh 'cockers, us cocker guys are few and far between these days. Of course, you can still kick the crap out of people using a brand new ego with a mechanical 'cocker if you play well enough, I get the opportunity to do it on a weekly basis. Okay, enough reminiscing.
To up your cycle rate without going electro, you need to modify the front block components and the sear/hammer components as they (other than your trigger finger) determine how quickly your marker cycles. The biggest factor is the 3-way coupled with the hammer/sear. If you can get a good hammer with a FLAT lug (think stock hammer lug) and a smooth sear that will allow you to time the firing point on the trigger all the way to the front (think 1mm pull length) and then have a 3-way that can set the re-cock point to almost immediately after that, then you'll have made major leaps to upping your firing rate. After all, the less distance you have to pull the trigger, the better. It helps stop short-stroking and in turn, helps to eliminate double-feeds and chopped balls. With the Hammer/Sear and 3-way out of the way, an adjustable LPR helps big time as well. Being able to up the pressure being put through the 3-way and into the ram gives you a faster cocking time (we're talking fractions of a second less, but it's still less) but it also means that if you DO have a ball only halfway into the chamber, you're definately going to chop it in half with higher ram-pressure. The other advantage to an adjustable lpr with a wide range of pressures is that you can adjust it so that you put less pressure through it and if it does happen to come up against a round only half-way dropped down the feed neck, it won't chop it, but will rest against it. A new ram will help sometimes as well. If it is a shortened ram (like a palmer's) it won't have as much distance to travel. The LPR can help in this as well as you can adjust how far back the ram and back-block go via the pressure set with the lpr. Less distance needed to cock the marker and chamber a ball = faster firing rate. Everything after those upgrades are pretty much semantics. Now, my suggestions: 3-way Palmer's quick switches are nice, but touchy, you loose out on some of the LPR low-pressure range features as it needs a higher-pressure to seat the o-rings properly. I have this on my marker right now, but the hissing gets annoying every once in a while. Also VERY touchy. It has a low margin for error. An easier 3-way that I've had great luck with is the old shocktech "bomb" 3-way. You'll wind up having to reverse your 3-way line (front to back and back to front) when you put it on, but it's a nice one. Very smooth and a wide operational range. Very forgiving. LPR: I've always liked my ANS Jackhammer II, but those are ancient by today's standards. Again, anything from Palmers will be good. So long as the pressure is regulated to stay the same even when firing fast, you'll be fine. Ram: I've got a palmer's short-ram on my 'cocker. I like it. But again, it can be fickle. Most aftermarket rams are going to be the same though. So just shoot for the middle of the pack and you won't be dissapointed Sear: Everyone seems to love the Belsales roller-sear. I can take it or leave it. I used to have an AKALMP hardened "skeletonized" sear on my marker. I wish I still did. It was crisp and didn't have as much trigger slop as my belsales does. The belsales is nice and buttery-smooth on the pull, but if you're looking for speed, crisp is the way to go. Hammer/Lug. A nice standard lug is best all around. If you plan on upgrading to an EBlade, you'll need to have a flat-bottomed lug anyway. It won't work with anything else. And again, you get that "crisp" feel from the trigger. You know you're reaching/reached the firing point that way. The best upgrade (which has little to do with cycling rates) you can do, however, is to get a matched set of springs (AKALMP "AKA") makes some good ones. The matched spring tension will give you much more regulated valve operation which leads to more consistent chronos and better groupings. Alright, that's all for this novella of a post. -tallen |
Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 25 November 2006 at 2:54pm
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all I can really say here is wow. Thanks, that really helped. Edit: Ive been meaning to ask, what should i use for lubricants? I know online, WGP tells you to use petroleum (sp.) jelly, lithium grease, and 3 in 1 oil. Are there any subsitutes for these? Also, is 3 in 1 just like your typical hoppes or gold cup? thanks. -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 25 November 2006 at 2:57pm
| not a problem! I'm just excited to see someone who is using a cocker these days. They really are wonderful markers. I always get little kids and even field judges gathering around me when I go to the field with mine. I don't even have a hinge-frame on mine. Still using the .45 single-trigger slide-trigger system. If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me! |
Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 25 November 2006 at 2:59pm
Thanks again  -------------
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Posted By: jerseypaint
Date Posted: 25 November 2006 at 11:25pm
Wow. I guess they don't see many cockers. I see them everytime I play, my friend has two. Great markers, but when something goes wrong, sometimes it takes a good sit down to fix it, but always worth it. |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 26 November 2006 at 8:48am
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as for the lubricants, definately don't use petrolium jelly as it will
eventually start to eat through any synthetic o-rings. Lithium grease works well, but the issue I find is that it, being a semi-solid, can slow down the action of the marker. The ONLY thing I've ever used lithium grease on were the ram and, (god forbid you feel you need to take them apart) regulators. I use KC "trouble free" oil for my needs. Honestly, if you switch out to a delrin bolt (which is a good move if you plan on going electro eventually) you won't need much in the way of lubricants with the exception of your trigger/sear, the hammer (only rarely) and your 3-way actuating rod. |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 26 November 2006 at 2:35pm
That red blob behind the branches, yeah, that's my cocker. Not an original part left on it. As it started out as an '01. and now looks like a custom-fade black magic. Post some images of that sucker when you start building on it! ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 26 November 2006 at 4:24pm
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you got it . Im tryin to get rid of a couple of paintball parts i got lyin around so i have a few more bucks to upgrade it. First thing i do is prolly buy another J&J Edge... I loved it on my 98 and im sure it will do just great on the cocker. From there, ill follow almost the exact order you laid out... its pretty funny because that was pretty much the order of parts i was going to use. Im thinking about using Planet Eclipse parts for most of the front end, except Shocktech for the 3-way. I heard Eclipse's parts are supposed to be really good, and there easier to get ahold of than palmer's. -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 26 November 2006 at 6:06pm
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yeah, eclipse does some nice stuff, after all they did make the eblade. I got most of my palmer's stuff at the "factory" (it's little more than a strip-mall sized store) in Sacramento, CA when I was in college on a wine-tour. Real tough life I had there, Wine and paintball....
The barrel in the picture is my large-bore barrel, it's an ACI zero-g american flag print. The cocker is completely red, chrome, and blue, so it fit. I've also got a lapco Autospirit in chrome as well. The tank is an Air America Armageddon 88ci 4500psi. It's heavy as a beast! But I love it! ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: xTippyx
Date Posted: 27 November 2006 at 7:00pm
| No mean to thread jack but how hard is it to retime a cocker after having it with and eblade to pump, to eblade again?? |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 27 November 2006 at 8:06pm
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not hard, especially since the e-blade replaces the 3-way. All you really have to "time" from that point is the release point on the hammer. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |