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"Fear the Sniper"

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Topic: "Fear the Sniper"
Posted By: Ghostcat
Subject: "Fear the Sniper"
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 3:58pm
Anybody seen this DVD from special ops? It's actually a decent video on paintball snipers and their role on a team. I know  everybody likes to shoot down the sniper threads. It's still a good video though worth watching if you plan on playing sniper on a brigade team. I'm not trying to start a flame war about snipers, their role, their existance, or their effectiveness, or lack there of.  Just  a  personal review of the DVD.

***Edit, I recant and edit my original post. I can clearly see this thread is  headed the wrong direction already. I intended to discuss the DVD only and what everybody thought of it WHO HAS WATCHED IT. If you haven't watched it, don't post.
 

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98 CUSTOM PRO
-Cyclone Feed
-A5 Ricochet hopper
-Lapco Bigshot 12" barrell
-Tippmann X-chamber
-Polished internals

SL-68 II (stock)
SHERIDAN PGP (stock)



Replies:
Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 4:09pm
The thing is, is what they described is not sniping.  You can't snipe.  Its well established.  Its called camping and hoping you dont get the snot blown outta you.  Also, long barrels are still and forever will be pointless. Also, this "sniper" is going to have to lay down a lot of paint.  The term sniper is just a marketing term, as we all know and embrace.

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http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=172327 - Forum XBL Gamertag Collection


Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 4:24pm

Strap your seatbelts on, it's gona be a rough 42 pages!!!!



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<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>


Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Strap your seatbelts on, it's gona be
a rough 42 pages!!!!





AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I just got done taking a healthy sniper ... now if I can just get the smell out
before the wife and kid get home ...

Some things Lysol just can't handle!

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If I attack, follow me

If I flee, kill me

If I die, avenge me



Posted By: Eaglez
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 7:12pm

You know what?  I hate everybody saying "theres no such thing as sniping or being a sniper blah blah whine whine"  Sniping in paintball means that you are camoflauged and alone and use the same characterisics and moving as a sniper just doesnt do the long range. They need to be stealthy and not able to pick out with the human eye.  Its as simple as that.  If you just say "I hate noobs that think they are snipers"  it doesnt mean that they are actually trying to shoot someone from long range.  Maybe "sniping" just means killing somebody without them seeing you. That includes real military.



Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Eaglez Eaglez wrote:

You know what?  I hate everybody saying "theres no such thing as sniping or being a sniper blah blah whine whine"  Sniping in paintball means that you are camoflauged and alone and use the same characterisics and moving as a sniper just doesnt do the long range. They need to be stealthy and not able to pick out with the human eye.  Its as simple as that.  If you just say "I hate noobs that think they are snipers"  it doesnt mean that they are actually trying to shoot someone from long range.  Maybe "sniping" just means killing somebody without them seeing you. That includes real military.



Doesn't everyone try to do that in woodsball? (Or in the real military?)


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Posted By: Snick
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 7:53pm

Sniping IS shooting a target from long range. Sniping is no connected to being stealthy. People in their own noobness make that connection. People hear sniper in reference to paintball, they instantly think of woodsball noobs running around in ghelle and with long barrels.

To snipe does NOT require stealth.
Example, a SWAT Police Sniper. These guys do not go hide in extra effort to remained hid. These men station themselves at statigic possitions in order to gain an advantagious opportunity to make a kill shot if called upon to do so.

In the example above you do NOT see someone making sure they remain hidden. Sometimes these snipers pressence is known, but they remain far enough away that other people have nothing they can do about it. its just like the group of officers stationed around the entrances and exits. The criminal KNOWS they are waiting out there for them but cant do anything about it. The police are just waiting for the key moment which will bring the least harm to any third party pressent.

I would be willing to believe someone if they claimed to be a recon unit or behind the line scout. These people DO use camo and ghelle to remain hidden and penitrate into enemy territory. However in real world millitary there is no way these people are sent in as Kill Squads. these people are ment to gather inteligence, not go in an eliminate the enemy person by person.

Every once in a while there IS a person sent in for a specific kill, but these people often again are not covered in camo or anything like that. weither they eliminate their target by range with a highpower rifle or close by shanking them with a knife or using a bomb depends on the situation. in practical purposes, it is imposible to send in a unit using camo trying to advance into a base. to become trully blended into the environment requires much more time that can be spend by someone behind enemy lines. it is much more effective to try sending someone in undercover to draw less attention. if someone sees a mass of moving bushes they are gonna know something is wrong. The best place to hide is in the most unlikely place, standing right next to them while chatting away.

the only real world definition that fits closest to a sniper is a unit stationed beforehand at a location which is known in the future to be a place of importance. the Unit is them placed there and hidden and often waits their hours, maybe even days until the target comes. that is when the unit strikes and then quickly retreats on a predetermines and set path before the enemy knows what hit them. This is what spec-ops tries to call a sniper. however again they fail to realize the requirements of prior deployment for a specific target and COMPLETE conceilment. when you see pictures of military snipers you often see nothing. they are so hunkered in and set in place that you cannot tell the difference between them and the other environment, even if you were standing 2 feet away from them. Guess what. this does not happen in an instant. this takes LOTS of time prior to not only find your place to hid, but then spend the time to make tripple sure you blend in completely.

 And guess what, running up 2 minutes before someone else shows up is not gonna cut it. paintball is not ment to have those kinda of people. there are to many factors such as the fact everyone starts at the same time that prevent any actual environment where they can exist.

and yet again, sniping does not mean concealment. the military units mentioned above using concealment are there for one specific thing and then retreat. they are no there for anything such as "Kill everyone you see thats against us." going behind enemy lines is far to dangerious to just be used to eliminate other forces. that person may kill one or two people but it wont take very long at all for everyone else to hunt them down and eliminate them if the sniper just keep hanging around for more kills. it is much wiser to remain closeknit as a unit than to branch of to go "snipe." there is a reason people fight in groups. if three people encounter two others, the three people have the advantage. if however those three people were to split up and come and go wandering alone they are much easier to eliminate if they run into those same to people.



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Posted By: Ghostcat
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by Yomillio Yomillio wrote:

The thing is, is what they described is not sniping.  You can't snipe.  Its well established.  Its called camping and hoping you dont get the snot blown outta you.  Also, long barrels are still and forever will be pointless. Also, this "sniper" is going to have to lay down a lot of paint.  The term sniper is just a marketing term, as we all know and embrace.


Agreed as stated above.  Lets keep this thread on the topic of the DVD, if you haven't seen it, Don't put your 2 cents worth in. Also this isn't a thread to flame each other on the topic of snipers. If thats want you want feel free to post and resurect the 100 other sniper threads.

I did like on the video how it gave you some tactics used by the special ops teams, and showed some situations were a "sniper" (term used loosely) could position himself and manuever around for best coverage.
 

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98 CUSTOM PRO
-Cyclone Feed
-A5 Ricochet hopper
-Lapco Bigshot 12" barrell
-Tippmann X-chamber
-Polished internals

SL-68 II (stock)
SHERIDAN PGP (stock)


Posted By: sinisterNorth
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 8:09pm

ibl?



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Pumpker'd; (V.) When a pump player runs up and shoots you at point blank range because you thought 20bps made you good.


Posted By: estcstpnt
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Eaglez Eaglez wrote:

You know what?  I hate everybody saying "theres no such thing as sniping or being a sniper blah blah whine whine"  Sniping in paintball means that you are camoflauged and alone and use the same characterisics and moving as a sniper just doesnt do the long range. They need to be stealthy and not able to pick out with the human eye.  Its as simple as that.  If you just say "I hate noobs that think they are snipers"  it doesnt mean that they are actually trying to shoot someone from long range.  Maybe "sniping" just means killing somebody without them seeing you. That includes real military.

If you would like to continue posting on the Tippmann forums I would suggest you make a new account.



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Thinking about it...


Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 11:22pm
lolz... spec ops is just raking in the cash with this silly sniper thing.  i should have thought of marketing it as much as they did.  


Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 28 November 2006 at 11:35pm

of course

all new players want to be snipers

it's a genious thing to do.



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<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>


Posted By: Ghostcat
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 12:16am
Ok, I can gladly see this is turning into nothing more than an immature pissing contest. Evidently nobody here is old enough to respect my  wishes and keep this thread on topic.

COULD A MOD PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD FOR ME BEFORE IT GETS EVEN MORE OUT OF HAND. Thank you


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98 CUSTOM PRO
-Cyclone Feed
-A5 Ricochet hopper
-Lapco Bigshot 12" barrell
-Tippmann X-chamber
-Polished internals

SL-68 II (stock)
SHERIDAN PGP (stock)


Posted By: hybrid-sniper
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 1:05am
You might actually have to directly contact a mod to get them to do your bidding.


Posted By: kickinwing2010
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 7:41am
stop raggin on the poor guy hes has put time in effort into giving a
legitiment argument. Also no matter how long you guys argue there is
this
thing called a definition made by people who are way smarter then any of
the rest of us http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sniper - here
is the link read it all the way through honestly i dont know why
people around here think wanting to be a sniper in paintball is a sin the
only slightly legitement argument that i have seen repeated over and over
is a paintball is not accurate enough well every day we see new technolgy
with stuff like the apex that is making a paintball more accurate. As for
the range snipers dont necesarily need range they need a concealed spot
from which to shoot like some tall grass. So yeah flame me if you want i
dont really care just stop being so strong headed i mean maybe your
wrong buy it doesnt make a differnce because i have a definition which is
proof which i have none of from any of you so im just gonna go on what i
think you can go on what you think but whatever i dont really care
honestly smarter people told me something and im gonna believe it.

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Posted By: jerseypaint
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 10:44am
The movie sucked. I know someone who watched it and said it was some fat guy in camo waddling around.

Sniper debates are stupid. Its like argueing God, nobody will change their opinion and no one has enough proof to totally disprove the other.

IBL.


Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 11:10am
Fine, forget the range thing, say someone does manage to stay hidden long enough to get off a shot. He takes out one player if he's lucky then either gets instantly lit up, or has to run away. So you shot one person out all by yourself, big deal. You didn't win the game. It's a one man ambush and you fire a limited amount of paint. You'd be more effective hosing the treeline for a few seconds, it would cause more alarm and buy you more time to escape. It's still just an ambush, and with only one person, it has severly limited effectivness. Go sit in a bush in the middle of the field, I'll be playing paintball. You shoot one person I'll shoot half a dozen. But whatever you do, if we need extra bodies for an assault, make sure you don't move to help it might compromise your position and you'd miss the chance to shoot that other lone noob looking for a bush to hide in.


Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by jerseypaint jerseypaint wrote:


I know someone who watched it and said it was some fat guy in camo waddling around.


so kinda like watching OMHW play?


zing!


Posted By: tecumseh
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 1:33pm

  /\/\/\/\    



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what?


Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 6:32pm
OUCH!!!

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If I attack, follow me

If I flee, kill me

If I die, avenge me



Posted By: skipperson
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 9:16pm

If the player is afraid of getting shot ussually they stay back behind their own team and try to get kills at long range.  That is the only way a person could be a sniper, it is an excuse for their fear.  Otherwise the closest thing to a sniper is someone who sneaks around the opposing team using camo and kills a couple of them before they find out where the shots are coming from.



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98 Custom
Cyclone Feed
16 Linear Barrel
Folding Stock
Double Trigger


Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by Ghostcat Ghostcat wrote:

Anybody seen this DVD from special ops? It's actually a decent video on paintball snipers and their role on a team. I know  everybody likes to shoot down the sniper threads. It's still a good video though worth watching if you plan on playing sniper on a brigade team. I'm not trying to start a flame war about snipers, their role, their existance, or their effectiveness, or lack there of.  Just  a  personal review of the DVD.

***Edit, I recant and edit my original post. I can clearly see this thread is  headed the wrong direction already. I intended to discuss the DVD only and what everybody thought of it WHO HAS WATCHED IT. If you haven't watched it, don't post.
 
You sir, are an idiot of the highest order...

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl


Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum


Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 12:24am

*Sigh*

Read this:

Edit: Highlight the boxes.

Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

...

The History of Military Sniping, and how it relates to the Game of Paintball.

Ok. So I got bored, and I am sick and tried of this stupid sniper debate. I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas, and didn’t know what else to get so I picked up several books on Military Snipers. Here are my findings.

< -- Note: Due to a problem with my code, you have to Highlight my rifle comparison tables to see them. It’s a bother, but if someone knows how to fix it, PM me. -- >

First lets go over the basics of what a sniper is, and what a sniper is not.

“A sniper…is considered a specialist, whose prime function is to kill selected high value targets at long range using superior skill and armament. A sharpshooter, by contrast, is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert

Keep this in your mind as you read the rest of the article.

The American Revolution (1775-83)

Sniping first came onto the battlefield during the American Revolution. Standard infantry of this period were equipped with “Brown Bess” smoothbore muskets. The Continental Congress approves 10 independent companies, armed with long rifles. The men of these companies were the first snipers.

Comparison between the “Brown Bess” musket, and the Long Rifle.

“A soldiers musket, if not exceedingly ill bored (as many are), will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards: it may even at 100, but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, provided that the antagonist aims at him; as to firing at a man at 200 yards, with a common, musket, you might as well fire at the moon.” –British Major Hanger, on the “Brown Bess” musket

 In contrast, the American Long Rifle (as carried by the Irregular companies), was effective in ranges up to 300 yards, and headshots could be achieved at 200. At these ranges American Snipers picked-off high ranking British Officers. During the battle of Saratoga an American sniper brought down British General Simon Frasier from a range of 300 yards. Despite its advantages the long rifle had several disadvantages. Its slow reload time(2 shots a minute), and lack of bayonet fixture made it useful only as a skirmisher weapon, not for use as a standard infantry weapon.

Brown Bess

Long Rifle

Range:

80 Yards

300 Yards

Muzzle Velocity:

1100-1300 fps

 ~1600fps

Ammunition:

.75 caliber ball

.40-.70 caliber ball

As you can see from the table, the Rifle outranged the common muskets of the time by over 200 yards. Also the muzzle velocity of the Rifle was much higher than that of the Brown Bess.

The War of Northern Aggression (American Civil War) (1861-65)

During the Civil War, the standard infantry rifles were the Enfield(for the south), and the Springfield(for the north). These were muzzleloading rifles with effective ranges up to 500 yards. The confederacy managed to acquire Witworth and Kerr rifles from Europe for their snipers. These rifles had an effective range of well over 1200 yards, and hits were reported at over 1500 yards.

Confederate Snipers were selected in a manner which has been used to select snipers in most present wars. The best men from each infantry regiment entered into shooting competitions. They were required to hit man-sized boards at 500 yards. The best shooters were given the prized Kerr and Witworth rifles. They then went through extensive training in the use of these rifles.

The snipers were warned never to get within 400 yards of the enemy, but to use their superior range, to keep the enemy at a safe distance.

Springfield/Enfield

Kerr & Withworth

Range:

 1200+ yards

500 Yards

Muzzle Velocity:

Ammunition:

.451 Hexagonal Slug

 

World War I (1914-18)

US Snipers during World War I used modified, and accurized versions of  the standard service rifle the Springfield 1903, equipped with 2 to 4 power scopes. Snipers during the war mostly sniped from behind the MLR, the main trench line. These snipers were Infantrymen taken off the line, and equipped with scoped rifles. With their rifles they could pick the enemy off 3 or 4 trench lines back from the MLR. The marksmanship standard for infantry of the time was to be able to hit a standing man from around 100 yards. The snipers were trained to hit targets from over 500 yards.

World War II (1938-45)

World War II snipers were selected in different manners during the war. I will concentrate on the Marine Corps Snipers trained at Green’s Farm because the documentation of this school and its snipers is the best. There, snipers were instructed in 5 week courses in marksmanship, camouflage, and field craft. They were trained to approach a target using stealth and to eliminate the target from long distances. These snipers were required to hit a moving target at 500 yards, and to hit a stationary target at 1000. They were equipped much the same way as snipers in WWI  were. These snipers used accurized  versions of the M1903 Springfield service rifle, the A1 or A3 variants equipped with 2 or 4 power scopes. Marine Infantry qualified at 500 yards.

M1 Garand

M1903A3

Range

500 yards

1000yards

Ammunition

.30-06

.30-06

Korea (1950-53)

Korea, in the latter part of the war turned into a bogged down war of attrition, looking somewhat like the trench warfare of WWI. This, alongside Korea’s terrain of rolling hills combined to make it prime sniper territory. Sniping tactics in Korea did not change much from the tactics of WWII so I will not elaborate on them. The rifles also remained the same. Snipers in Korea were equipped with 1903A3 Variant Springfield’s, and National Match M1’s(which were used in competition shooting because they were more accurate than the standard M1) Equipped with 4 power scopes(the M1D model). The accuracy of the M1 was not as good as that of the Springfield, due to the need to offset the scope, and have major Eye Relief built-in to the rifle due to the Clip Feed of the M1. These M1’s still were able to reach ranges of 500 yards accurately. In Korea the use of the .50 caliber round for sniping was first seen. M2 Machine Guns mounted with a 10 power scope were able to reach ranges of 2800 yards effectively, Snipers also experimented with .55 Caliber Boy’s antitank rifles modified to take .50 caliber rounds, and mounted with scopes which had the same range as the M2, but was able to be carried by a man whereas the M2’s were limited to fixed positions.

M1D Sniper Model

M1903A3 Sniper

M2 Machine Gun

Range

500 yards

1000 yards

2500 yards

Ammunition

.30-06

.30-06

.50 Caliber

 

Vietnam (1965-75)

Vietnam is the perfect example of how a sniper can be employed during combat. The restrictive ROE and vast open fields and rice paddy’s of Vietnam became prime sniper territory. The Marine Corps and the Army both Fielded Snipers. Army snipers were equipped with accurized versions of the M14 service rifle, accurate out to 700 yards. The Marine Corps fielded snipers equipped with Winchester Model 70 Hunting rifles firing the .30-06 cartridge, and later in the war snipers carried the M40, which fired the standard 7.62x51mm(.308) cartridge both of these rifles had an effective range of over 1000 yards. Also snipers used modified M2 .50 caliber machine guns, fitted with scopes. These were accurate to ranges out to 2500 yards. Normal infantry of the time fired the M16 Assault Rifle, and the enemy fired the AK-47 assault rifle. These rifles were designed for infantry combat which takes place in ranges of only around 200 yards, and can only be fired accurately up to 500 yards. Thus snipers were able to operate with impunity from beyond the range of effective return fire of the enemy.

M16

Winchester 70

M40

M14 Sniper

Range

500 yards

1000 yards

1000 Yards

700 yards

Ammunition

5.56mm

.30-06

7.62x51mm

7.62x51mm

Now through all these wars several things have remained in common among snipers, lets analyze these facts:

A sniper acts independently from standard infantry, not as a part of a unit but in a one or two man team.

This is possible in paintball, most of the time in scenario games, I am alone behind enemy lines trying to accomplish a mission. But you do very little if any tactical good for your team waiting in one spot for an entire game, hoping a target of high-value (such as the opposing general) walks by.

A sniper does not act at random, he selects targets of high value and eliminates them.

Targets of High Value in a military sense are:

  1. Officers:
    • Generals
    • Field Grade officers
    • Company Grade officers
  2. Forward Observers
  3. Crew Served Weaponry:
    • Heavy Machine Guns
    • Artillery Batteries
    • Mortar Crews
  4. Non Commissioned Officers
  5. Radiomen

Targets of High Value in Paintball:

  1. Generals
  2. Tank Crewman (if there are tanks)
  3. Um…. Yeah… that’s all I can think of...

The problem with selecting high value targets in a scenario paintball game is, there are very few. The vast majority of players play independently, not under any command and they do what they want. What officers and team captains there are do not look any different than any other players.

The Sniper fires at targets from beyond the range of return fire by the standard infantry weapons, or from distances that were beyond the training of the normal infantryman.

As you can see from the diagrams of the Sniper Rifles of the Period in comparison to the standard issue infantry weapons, the sniper rifle always has a great deal more range than infantry weapons, and the sniper has been trained to an accuracy standard that is beyond that of standard infantry training.

This is where sniping in paintball fails. All paintball markers except those equipped with the Flatline or Apex systems fire the same distance, around 25 yards or 75 feet. The Flatline will reach ranges of up to 150 ft, but because the ball loses velocity at the same rate as a normal paintball, the chances of getting a break, or a single accurate shot at those ranges are close to zero.

The sniper uses a single accurate shot to take his targets down.

The ammunition expended to kill ratio of a sniper in Vietnam was 1.7 rounds per kill. The average infantryman expended 50,000 rounds per confirmed kill.

It is possible to take targets down with a single shot in paintball. However it is near impossible to eliminate a target with a single shot from beyond the effective range of return fire by the enemy.

A sniper uses camouflage and concealment to hide himself from his enemies to eliminate his targets.

No qualms with this, it can be done. Most every scenario paintball player does it. Using camouflage doe not make you sniper.

Now as you can see there are several places where sniping fails in paintball. Now look at the definition of a Sharpshooter:

“A sharpshooter… is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert

Ok, this looks a little more feasible in the game of paintball than the sniper definition doesn’t it?

For paintball purposes we can strike rifleman, because there are no rifles in paintball.

“who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

This sounds feasible. The definition of a sniper that Spec Ops puts forth is one of an “ambush player” that fires from concealment, using camouflage. The problem with the Spec Ops definition of a sniper is that it perfectly describes the definition of a sharpshooter in a military sense.

So we will set forth the definition of a Sharpshooter in paintball. This is what most of you would call a Sniper in paintball.

A sharpshooter takes shots from concealment, shoots at targets as the opportunity arises, and uses a marker that has the same range as everyone else’s. This is not a Sniper. This is a sharpshooter. You will never be a sniper in paintball simple ballistics prevent this from ever happening.

The fact of the matter is if you think you are a sniper in paintball, your terminology is wrong. The definition of a sharpshooter, fits paintball a lot closer that the definition of a sniper. But for those of you who insist that you are still snipers, look at an analogy: You work for a living. Your job is to go to people’s houses and businesses, to pick up their trash and take it to the dump. You drive a Garbage Truck. What would you be called, a Garbage Man, or a Professional Truck Driver?

You would be called a Garbage Man, would you not? As much as you would prefer to be called a Professional Truck Driver, everyone would call you a Garbage Man because it fits what you are doing better than the title Professional Truck Driver does.

The definition of Sharpshooter, or a Designated Marksman fits what you are doing in paintball a whole lot better than Sniper does. Stop fooling yourself.

References:

SNIPER- Adrian Gilbert

One Shot-One Kill- Charles W. Sasser and Craig Roberts

Marine Sniper- Charles Henderson

Authors Note: In my haste of writing this, I may have gotten some minor facts mixed up, or in the wrong place.



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Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"



Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 8:04am
"Lions and Tigers and Bears, OH my, Lions and Tigers and Bears, OH my......"

"But the dictionary says.........."

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Posted By: Ghostcat
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 11:26pm

Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Originally posted by Ghostcat Ghostcat wrote:

Anybody seen this DVD from special ops? It's actually a decent video on paintball snipers and their role on a team. I know  everybody likes to shoot down the sniper threads. It's still a good video though worth watching if you plan on playing sniper on a brigade team. I'm not trying to start a flame war about snipers, their role, their existance, or their effectiveness, or lack there of.  Just  a  personal review of the DVD.

***Edit, I recant and edit my original post. I can clearly see this thread is  headed the wrong direction already. I intended to discuss the DVD only and what everybody thought of it WHO HAS WATCHED IT. If you haven't watched it, don't post.
 
You sir, are an idiot of the highest order...

Yup, I'm an idiot, glad you pointed that out. I appreciated you letting everybody know. So now do you feel better about yourself by calling me an idiot? I mean afterall this is a heated discussion of which nobody can follow the simple rule of posting on topic, including you. But what fun would that be, right? All this is one giant pissing contest of which, you just participated in without actually knowing anything about the actual topic. If so you would have posted something relevent. So who are you calling a freakin' idiot? I don't give a rats ass what anybodies defintion of a sniper is, I don't care what anybodies view is on snipers. I don't care if special ops is raking in cash over the video. I don't care if people call themselves snipers. Inevietably I don't care because I have the decency to respect the topic on hand and answer questions relevant to the topic. If you want to flame me, pm me. I'll deal with you there.  Otherwise, if you don't want to post on the subject matter, don't post at all. It's called common courtesy.



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98 CUSTOM PRO
-Cyclone Feed
-A5 Ricochet hopper
-Lapco Bigshot 12" barrell
-Tippmann X-chamber
-Polished internals

SL-68 II (stock)
SHERIDAN PGP (stock)


Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 01 December 2006 at 5:27pm

tl;dr

ibtl



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