ugh.

They all deserve to be bonus balled.

Repeatedly.

In the groin.

I'm not sure I can fault the wipers anymore.

Yep, you heard me right.

It's one thing in rec games, scenario games, and backyard games - wiping is clearly inappropriate.

But in tournaments?  Wiping is part of the game.  Check the rules - wiping gets you a points penalty.  That's it.  It's basically like a hockey penalty.  Sure, cross-checking is technically not permitted, but all that happens is that you get penalized a little.

Compare that to, say corking a bat in baseball, or taking a shortcut in a cycling race, or illegal doping in any sport.  Either one of those will get you disqualified on the spot, potentially with more serious consequences as well.

If wiping were truly cheating in tournaments, the penalty would at a minimum be instant disqualification of the team from the entire tournament, and potentially disqaulification from future tournaments as well.

As long you only lose a couple of point for wiping it is the functional equivalent of a holding penalty, and not cheating at all.

dontrummer wrote: i almost get pride in callin myself out while playin a backyard game knowing that im not cheating.

And that's the way I play too.  But then I don't play in tournaments.  If I did, I don't know that I wouldn't wipe.

Clark Kent wrote: dontrummer wrote: i almost get pride in callin myself out while playin a backyard game knowing that im not cheating. And that's the way I play too.  But then I don't play in tournaments.  If I did, I don't know that I wouldn't wipe.

The only time I'd wipe during a tourny level game is if A I knew we had a chance of going all the way or it was the last game and B if I was the last guy in then maybe I'd wipe. Last ditch effort, what's the worst that could happen etc. I wouldn't wipe and risk two of my teammates going out for no reason.

Hello,

Good luck!

"Hello"

Did you just say "hello"?

I think Basic warped your personality.

I have always liked Watts' definition of character. 

But two (or maybe three, depending on how you count) questions about that:

1 - How many times have you seen offensive linemen call themselves for holding?  Do we think it shows a lack of character for them not to do so more often?

2 - What exactly are the religious implications of Watts' statement?

Rambino wrote: "Hello" Did you just say "hello"? I think Basic warped your personality.

[Color= magenta]

Hey,

And I think your poopyhead is starting to dry up...better pack fresh crap on there, lol.

I'm just terribly twsited.

Good luck!

[/magenta]

My point with the football analogy is that nobody (I think) would think any less of a football players that fails to notify the referee that he broke a rule - rather the opposite, most fans/teammates would be rather peeved if the cornerback volunteered to the ref that he had interfered with the pass.  No moral judgement is attached to this, because we don't really consider it cheating.

Similarly, I think that wiping in "serious" paintball tournaments has moved into that territory.  While wiping in "fun" paintball is completely wrong and immoral, and grounds for immediate expulsion from the game, wiping in tournaments is just another foul.  Nobody thinks that fouling the shooter in basketball is immoral, even when obviously done on purpose - why should wiping in competitive paintball be different?

As to religion:  Is it ever possible for a person to have "character" if that person believes that god is always watching?  Does this mean that only atheists and buddhists can ever have "character"?

hwayhzrd wrote: Tourney paintball has numerous refs to catch misbehaviour, so I can sort of see your point in that regard, Clark. HOWEVER ... there is a large difference between the semi-controlled environment of a speedbal tournament and rec-ball, be it woods, speed, scenario, whatever.

Agree completely.

People don't appear to have the cognitive skills to seperate that environment from a walk-on environment, where more often than not the refs are les-than-attentive, usually underpaid schulbs who are their either for a paycheck or to fulfill a sponsorship requirement.

Agree again.  Sad but true.  And wiping in anything other than an "official" tournament is clearly cheating.

As for theology, I am not even going there.

:)

uhhh I don't know how to respond to that post.

I'm probebly going to get flamed here but have you ever played rec ball and saw a ball break on a tree branch about 1/4 inch in diameter and thought to yourself if that was a bullet it'd be in my head right now? I think that all the time especially when it just bounces off of me. If that were a bullet it'd be embedded right in my kneecap.

hwayhzrd wrote: High Voltage wrote: So people wipe, I've done it myself, who exactly did I harm at the scenario game when I did it? Only violating the spirit of the game, the ideal of sportsmanship, and ripping someone out of elimination they EARNED, but other than that, not a thing. I am not surprised that so few people actually see that the small things lead to the big things later. An avalanche begins with that very first flake of snow. Like OS said, I bet the wipers are the ones that scream the loudest if someone were wiping their hit. A bit of the 'ol "Do as I say, not as I do" philosophy.

Exactly why I don't wipe, as I said I don't get satisfaction out of omitting someones kill, how would you feel if you knew you got a guy but he wiped so that kill doesn't count for you?

Oh they do my friend they do. I know one of my buddies wipes on occasion and if he ever finds someone wiping one of his hits he screams it to the mountains.

If that's the rule then I'm the exception. I know I don't have anything coming to me without hard work to make it happen.

Most of the time, if I call myself out, I got hit and it didnt break.

I dont wipe unless Ive played a couple games with someone who was winning like crazy and wipeing.

Yeah it's lame, and cheating in it is lame so cheating in paintball is lame

tallen702 wrote: Gatyr wrote: I'd be willing to bet that Mr. Pilot and I are two of the better players on the forum, regardless of whether or not we cheat. Let's meet up sometime. If you make it out east to an event, let's meet up and see. You don't wipe, I play like I always do (no wiping). I garauntee you that if you and I both follow the rules, (no wiping, no playing on with an obvious hit) you don't last. But I digress, I honestly feel that any paintball player who attempts to circumvent the rules, especially with the flimsy excuse of "But everyone else does it" should hang their gear, and their head, and leave the sport until they grow up. In the case of walk on or scenario play, you aren't mature enough to play a potentially dangerous sport if you're cheating. In the case of tournaments, when you cheat, you are flat-out STEALING. When you cheat and win, you are taking the hard-earned money and prizes out of the hands of those that truly deserve them. I honestly feel that if someone wins a tournament and takes the cash or other prizes and are then found culpable of cheating, they should have criminal charges filed against them. For Gatyr and the other guys who feel wiping is necessary, I leave you with this: "Cheating removes the basic understanding between players that serves as a foundation for the game of paintball. When a player cheats, he gives himself a bad reputation, tarnishes the name of his team or sponsor, and increases the likelihood of his own injury through bonus balling. He sets a bad example for new players to the sport and wastes his own time by taking shortcuts instead of genuinely improving. I understand a large amount of people cheat in paintball and don’t expect to see an end to it any time soon. I strongly believe that it is the responsibility of the player of any level to educate new and inexperienced players that while victory should be strived for, the means in which one acquires it must be legitimate. Bragging with friends about cheating through a game will do nothing but encourage a new generation of cheaters. While this may not seem to be a problem right now, what happens when five years down the line these same players are cheating against you? Cheating on the field simply invites inevitable problems for others and for you. It seems now that hundreds of players are jumping off the bridge. Whether you want to join them is your decision. Yet when all is said and done, no matter how many trophies adorn your walls or how popular you are, the only person you’ve really cheated is yourself. " -http://www.paintballtimes.com/Article.asp?ID=216 You've already shown you're morally bankrupt, so I figure the above quote will fall on deaf ears, but he's right.

What tournament series's do you play? I'll be at all the CFOAs(probably x-ball AND five man), most of the ACTs, BRUTs, and I'll probably be going to all the PSPs(unless I play xpsl).  Where do you live?  I'm game.

EDIT: And after reading page 3, I've got a whole lot more to say.

How the hell does a board game based on the luck of the dice at all corresponde(sp?)  to wiping in paintball?  Honestly, last time I checked, no one was shooting at you while you were dropping your fake pieces of ivory.

If you think that you are a better player than me and that you've played more tournaments than me, AND that makes you a better person...well you are wrong on all three counts. I would doubt you are a better player than myself or Gatyr, otherwise, you would have already backed yourself up with something physical to prove it. Hell, Gatyr plays on a national BLAST team(I believe that's correct anyways.) I play for Planet Eclipse's LARGEST supplier on the eastern seaboard. You don't get that kind of position by just being a good cheater. Do you think they don't have a thousand and one guys watching you during tryouts? 

And as to a "lack of honor"  in the new generation of players, I must ask how you come to this conclusion.  I mean, would you say that football players have no honor because they occasionally hold, or rough the passer even?  The best point in this entire thread was made by Clark.  The severity of the offense is set in the rules, if it was equivalent to taking steroids or, god forbid, raping a woman, the penalty would be much more severe than a 2 for 1, 5 minute penalty, etc.

Lame.

Gatyr wrote: Anyone who spells it whipe deserves to have everyone in paintball wipe every hit that comes from that person. Guess what, I wipe. Guess what, I win. It happened twice in Huntington Beach, and plenty of times in practice against people I know are going to wipe on me. Go me. Except, I tell people when I wipe. I don't brag, I let them know they shot me, but I did what would be done in any high level tournament, and it helps both parties. He knows he did something right, I get the practice of learning whether or not my wipe was successful, and was able to play longer. Just an example, because this was a rather slick wipe on my part: I was playing a stand up door on an NPPL field, in the center of the field, and I got shot on the outside part of my knee by someone I hadn't known had moved up so far. I switched sides, shooting out the other side, crouched down, and in doing so, rid myself of the hit on my leg. No one but the guy who shot me noticed, and at the end of the game, I gave him a high five, confirmed he shot me, and he was cool with it. That's how brimstone Smoke used to practice, and it's how Addicted used to practice, and look at how well they used to do(when they were actually together). In short, I cheat and win.

I agree completely. Like it or not, cheating is a very real part of competitive paintball. Hell, I cheat. I practice wiping for that matter. And I expect my teammates and opponents to do the same. Some of you guys are acting like you have never broken any rule or law in your life. Let me ask you something, have ever gone over the speed limit while driving? I thought so, now explain to me how breaking that law is any less worse than breaking a rule in a game. At the end of the day it is a game, a game I intend on winning, I don't care how I do it. Now OS, Reb, go ahead and question my lack of integrity, but keep in mind the last time that you broke a rule (any rule) while you do it.

IBTL

Squishey wrote: thats ridiculous, if you dont have the skill to play without wiping then dont play.

Do you honestly think that teams like Dynasty, XSV, Joy, RL, or Infamous don't cheat? Don't kid yourself, I guarantee you every player on every professional team has wiped, does that mean that they should just realize how terrible they are and never put on another mask again? Hell no. Sometimes the risk is worth the reward, you have to willing to roll the dice once in a while.

tallen702 wrote: I've been out of the tournament series for a few years. I played NPPL Amateur A and Amateur B, NCPA, NEPL, IAO in Cranberry (Pittsburgh) and SkyBall. I still garauntee you that you wouldn't last as long following the rules. As far as me playing more tournaments than you, that doesn't necessarily make me better than you, but playing in every single tournament and not cheating by wiping a hit.... yeah, that DOES make me a better person than you. I have honor and integrity in everything I do, if you cheat, you don't. I think that's pretty straight forward. My question for you is this, if it's alright to cheat, then why are you getting so uptight about everyone calling you out on it? I hold no animosity towards you in person. You've never wiped against me (that I know... you didn't play for Perdue University back in '01 did you?) I just don't like cheaters. The offer still stands though, one on one. Speedball. Whoever wins without cheating DEFINATELY wins.

So do football players who commit a holding penalty or commit pass interference lack integrity?

hwayhzrd wrote: BIG difference between an inadvertant action in the heat of the moment and a conscious effort to break the rules, don't you think? You don't? Didn't think so ...

I do think so.  I play football, probably going to play at a 1-AA school, or possibly a smaller 1-A school next year.  Do you really believe that everytime a football player commits a penalty it's unintentional?  I was visiting a college this weekend and the coaches were talking to us and was explaining the style of jersies they had and he said, "It's so you can't get held, who here holds?  Don't try to lie to me now and say you never hold, I coach offense."  I held often, and you know what?  Didn't get called for it once. I think it's the same way in paintball, a hold is the equivalent to wiping, otherwise, a more sever penalty would be in place. While I agree with you on the fact that you shouldn't do it in recball, there's a reason I succeed both on the football field, AND the paintball field.