Huntin’ Snipers
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Topic: Huntin’ Snipers
Posted By: Mack
Subject: Huntin’ Snipers
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 2:17pm
Since I recently noticed an upswing in sniper-existence-related arguments on the forum (even in topics not really related to sniping) I thought I would share this little tale from last summer. I do not intend to argue the existence or non-existence of snipers in paintball, I just want to share with the pro-sniper crowd an example of why many woodsball players have trouble taking snipers seriously and why some react with such vehemence when the topic comes up. As a disclaimer, I feel it necessary to say that I realize not all paintball snipers out there play in this manner, but, from my experience, the majority do.
Last summer, I was on the defending team in a single flag game and was securing the far left flank. There were boundaries directly behind the flag bunker and within 30 yards on the right so it was a very defensable position. Each team had about 20 players and most of the action was occuring between the right boundary and the center front of our defensive line. This was fine with me; I had chosen my position because it was late in the day and my back and knee were bothering me and I had no desire to doing anything more active than fire a few shots to herd stragglers back toward the main firefight.
I was sprawled behind a bush, leaning back against a comfortable old log, holding my r/t equipped 98C with 12" J&J when I saw them through the bushes. It was the two guys in full ghillie that I had noticed arriving just a few games earlier but had not yet encountered on the field. They were each armed with some type of fancy mil-sim set-up (complete with "silencers" and bipods) and running remote lines to their tanks. One was quiet when they arrived, but the other one was in full "uber-sniper", smack-talking form. They were moving across a wide open area toward my position like a pair of large mobile shrubberies. The first thing that came to my mind was the Monty Python quote, "Bring me a shrubbery!" I let them get fairly close, then opened up on them. Although I hit both, I could see no breaks. This brings me to the first problem many people have with snipers:
- If you wear gear that makes it impossible to break paint on you even at close range (or see any potential breaks), have the courtesy to call yourself out when hit. Otherwise we could all wrap ourselves in packing foam and bubble wrap and never have to get out.
They retreated to the center of the open area, out of my effective range and hunkered down to return fire at my position. Since they were no longer moving, apparently they thought their ghillie rendered them invisible. The truth was they looked like two large green lumps of mold on a backdrop of brown wheat bread. This is point two:
- If you're going to wear a ghillie suit, use it correctly.
I let them see me and amused myself by making them waste their paint shooting at me from out of range (at least a hopper each). Usually just showing myself or waving at them was enough to keep them shooting, but when they showed signs of getting bored, I would point my marker in their direction while considering point three:
- Snipers (actually all paintball players) should know the effective range of their markers.
Finally, they decided to do something. One of them shifted toward my right and closer and opened up on me while the other ran directly left. Since I knew the position of my other team members, I realized the one who was covering me had gotten to a position where he would get lit up if he moved on me. (He probably wouldn't get eliminated, but he would get chased back.) I decided to ignore him and go after the other one. I let him see me move to my right and allowed him to shoot at me and pin me down behind a large bush. Then, while he industriously shredded the bush with hundreds of rounds, I slid backwards to lower ground and crawled in the direction his buddy had gone. Once I had effective cover and concealment safely between us, I moved quickly in a crouch to where I thought his friend would come in through. This is point four:
- Blind firing a butt-load of rounds at maximum effective range at where you think the enemy is, is not sniping (nor is it effective cover fire.)
I reached my chosen cover and spotted the other sniper immediately. He was crawling across open terrain in a manner that reminded me of the movie "The Blob" (the 50s version with Steve McQueen). This is point five:
- Ghillied snipers should be stationary; innocent bushes do not normally deploy on other players. Conversely, if you have to cross an open area, there is no point in crawling if you're going to be seen anyway.
I had to crawl to the next bush to be in optimum position. I crouched as close to the bush as I could and waited. (Any outside observer would have assumed I had some type of plant fetish and was victimizing the poor scrub growth.) I should point out that I was not ghillied; I was wearing tiger stripes and had a few pieces of camo net material attached to my mask to break up the outline.
Finally, the mobile shrub passed on the other side of my cover. As he got up to a crouch, I leaned out and layed my barrel on his right shoulder and asked him if he wanted to call out or if I needed to shoot him. He called out and left in disgust. This would be point six:
- Real snipers set traps, they don't generally walk into them. (Especially not traps set by someone who is probably over twice their age and is not in nearly as good shape.)
After this guy called out and left in disgust, I circled out to get a shot at his partner. Before I could get to him he was eliminated. I did however, get in a good position to watch several players, who were apparently frustrated that he wouldn't call out, bunker him at a range that guaranteed the paint would break and shoot him enough that you could see the breaks through the ghillie. This would be my final point:
- Bad things happen to "snipers" who use their ghillie to make themselves bullet-proof.
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Replies:
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 2:37pm
You know what I've found? My blaze-red jersey, red mask, red (and now silver) markers, and all the shiny chrome and whatnot on them don't make me that much easier to see in the woods. I can still ambush, still stay concealed. I've also found that having a speedball mentality in woodsball means that while I tend to got shot out most rounds, I take a lot more guys with me than your typical cammo, sit and wait, player does. A lot of people don't think you can get bunkered in a castle... man are they wrong.
------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 3:08pm
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tallen702 wrote:
You know what I've found? My blaze-red jersey, red mask, red (and now silver) markers, and all the shiny chrome and whatnot on them don't make me that much easier to see in the woods. I can still ambush, still stay concealed. I've also found that having a speedball mentality in woodsball means that while I tend to got shot out most rounds, I take a lot more guys with me than your typical cammo, sit and wait, player does. A lot of people don't think you can get bunkered in a castle... man are they wrong. |
Actually they are a dead giveaway
But you are very right about the speedball mentality.
i started doing stuff like that a few times ago and i have had so much more fun. I also am well recognized as a good player at my field now.
------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 5:19pm
tallen702 wrote:
You know what I've found? My blaze-red jersey, red mask, red (and now silver) markers, and all the shiny chrome and whatnot on them don't make me that much easier to see in the woods. I can still ambush, still stay concealed. I've also found that having a speedball mentality in woodsball means that while I tend to got shot out most rounds, I take a lot more guys with me than your typical cammo, sit and wait, player does. A lot of people don't think you can get bunkered in a castle... man are they wrong. |
One of the better woods players I know wears all red and uses a shiney red marker. He can still disappear in the woods because he knows how to use cover and concealment and he knows when to (and when not to) move.
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Posted By: barn_user
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 6:33pm
I never have been one to beleive in camo, sure it might help you out, but you are not invisible in the trees. Since we don't have alot of paintball traffic down here any chance I get to play I take, and have seen quite the array of players myself. I used to wear jeans and a grey longsleeved shirt with red mechanics gloves. With a sale paintball-discounters had, my brother and I both picked jerseys, mine is the tippmann one with no numbers or lettering, and his is an evil likewise. Since we both have played quite a bit and my brother has taught me to play, we are recognized as the two best players when we play. He has a fairly old ICD bushamster 2000, 1999 or 98ish. While I support myself with my 98 custom. People just look at us and want us on their team. We now play so that we are always seperated, except a game of alamo we played.
What I'm trying to get at is that how your dressed and the gun you carry can play a big role in how people think of you sometimes.
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Posted By: lilsully4
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 6:56pm
Very nice post, I agree, it is not what you have with you, it is how you play the game
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 7:43pm
Barn_user,
I agree that the way you dress dramatically impacts the way that you are precieved as a player.
I wore my Marine Corps issue cammies the last time I played paintball. People would just look at me and want me on their team, once I played and did well everybody wanted me on their team...
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 8:14pm
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barn_user wrote:
I never have been one to beleive in camo, sure it might help you out, but you are not invisible in the trees. Since we don't have alot of paintball traffic down here any chance I get to play I take, and have seen quite the array of players myself. I used to wear jeans and a grey longsleeved shirt with red mechanics gloves. With a sale paintball-discounters had, my brother and I both picked jerseys, mine is the tippmann one with no numbers or lettering, and his is an evil likewise. Since we both have played quite a bit and my brother has taught me to play, we are recognized as the two best players when we play. He has a fairly old ICD bushamster 2000, 1999 or 98ish. While I support myself with my 98 custom. People just look at us and want us on their team. We now play so that we are always seperated, except a game of alamo we played. What I'm trying to get at is that how your dressed and the gun you carry can play a big role in how people think of you sometimes.
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cammo actually does help.
not really necessary of course
but wearing speedball clothing to woodsball is worse than painting a giant target on our chest
------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>
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Posted By: phil_stl
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 9:28pm
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I agree with carl... the camo does sometimes help. Of course, not always, but an all yellow or red mask or even black mask is much easier to see than one that "has the outline broken up" as Mack said or simply the diverse colors, and at least some of which will blend in with the surroundings.
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Posted By: sinisterNorth
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 9:50pm
I play in BDUs or camo pants and a gray shirt and am able to go unseen for most of a game. It really depends on teh ability and skill of the player to conceal themselves. I've also witnessed peopel wearing speedball jersies who sneak up on the guys in full ghillie.
------------- Pumpker'd; (V.) When a pump player runs up and shoots you at point blank range because you thought 20bps made you good.
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Posted By: RavenGuard
Date Posted: 24 December 2006 at 7:27pm
What a great post, honestly. This could not be more true.
On camo: it's not always necessary, it doesn't help if you play like you aren't in camo. Camo is the next step once you know how to trick your opponent's eyes.
On staying concealed: The 3 things I've figured out about staying hidden are:
1.) The human eye is attracted to movement. STAY VERY STILL if someone is looking at you and does not know you are there. I watched as an opposing player walked straight toward a friend and I, making it to about 10' from us befor we opened up. I was decently concealed, but my friend was almost out in the open, behind a few thin trees and branches. The target didn't see us because we didn't move an inch from the moment we saw him a few minutes ago.
2.) Black is just as bad as bright neon colours unless you are in a dark DARK shadow. People with black guns, black masks, black belts, black bandanas, black co2/air tanks, gloves etc. etc. are much easier to pick out than people who opt for more neutral colours. Another reason why my friend and I were not seen is because we both painted our guns and we both painted our masks.
3.)It's very easy to recognize a human shape. Tuck in. If you ever get shot anywhere besides the gun or the mask, you still need practice. If you don't have very good cover, stay low and it'll be much harder to notice you.
And to finish it off, if you are staying hidden or ambushing somebody, don't fire until you absolutely NEED to fire. Chances are your opponent will be in range for a long time, and until he's within 10 feet, or until he starts to move past you, don't waste your ammo unless you have a sure shot.
------------- Tippmann A-5
Polished Internals
E-Grip
Ape Board
JCS Blade Trigger
QEV
8" Bigshot + Apex
Ricochet R-5 / Tac Cap
Palmers Stabilizer
68/4500 Crossfire
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Posted By: Rock Slide
Date Posted: 24 December 2006 at 10:46pm
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"If you wear gear that makes it impossible to break paint on you even at close range (or see any potential breaks), have the courtesy to call yourself out when hit. Otherwise we could all wrap ourselves in packing foam and bubble wrap and never have to get out. "
If you can't make them say out, make them say ouch... Rules are that if you are in a ghillie, the paint doesn't have to break. You just have to hit them. They were out of the game at this point.
"If you're going to wear a ghillie suit, use it correctly."
This is the #1 problem with newbies in ghillies. Total color mismatch.
"Snipers (actually all paintball players) should know the effective range of their markers."
I've seen "Old Soldier" stand in the middle of balls flying and not get hit. That's because everybody is long-balling. You can step out of the way of those. Effective range of a round projectile shot out of a smooth bore gun at 300fps is about 75ft. That's where you have a 50% chance of hitting a person.
"Blind firing a butt-load of rounds at maximum effective range at where you think the enemy is, is not sniping (nor is it effective cover fire.)"
3 to 5 round burst will keep somebody pinned down as well as a string of hundreds. Just make some noise on their bunker.
"Ghillied snipers should be stationary; innocent bushes do not normally deploy on other players. Conversely, if you have to cross an open area, there is no point in crawling if you're going to be seen anyway."
Movement is the first thing to catch your eye. It saved our ancestry from being eaten... It doesn't matter if you're in a ghillie, woodland camo, tigerstrip, or a pink bunny suit.
"Real snipers set traps, they don't generally walk into them. (Especially not traps set by someone who is probably over twice their age and is not in nearly as good shape.)"
Again, you were playing against newbies with an attitude. Felt good, didn't it...
"Bad things happen to "snipers" who use their ghillie to make themselves bullet-proof."
While in the dead zone after the game, I hope you walked by them and had the good sense to stop and just smile...
------------- I bring annihilation
and cheap red wine!
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 25 December 2006 at 2:12pm
Rock Slide wrote:
"If you wear gear that makes it impossible to break paint on you even at close range (or see any potential breaks), have the courtesy to call yourself out when hit. Otherwise we could all wrap ourselves in packing foam and bubble wrap and never have to get out. "
If you can't make them say out, make them say ouch... Rules are that if you are in a ghillie, the paint doesn't have to break. You just have to hit them. They were out of the game at this point. These guys were apparently not aware of that rule. The mouthy one was initially resistant when I explained it to them later, but the field owner took care of it.
"If you're going to wear a ghillie suit, use it correctly."
This is the #1 problem with newbies in ghillies. Total color mismatch. I've seen that a lot also, but in this case these guys were actually pretty close. (To be fair, the one who tried to pin me down did take a good covered/concealed postition to do it from, but that doesn't help when I watched him go there.)
"Snipers (actually all paintball players) should know the effective range of their markers."
I've seen "Old Soldier" stand in the middle of balls flying and not get hit. That's because everybody is long-balling. You can step out of the way of those. Effective range of a round projectile shot out of a smooth bore gun at 300fps is about 75ft. That's where you have a 50% chance of hitting a person. I hate those games. I especially hate when you close in on them and they run away so they can long-ball from somewhere else. (I've actually won several games because the less aggressive members of the opposing team ran away from their flag when we got to close.)
"Blind firing a butt-load of rounds at maximum effective range at where you think the enemy is, is not sniping (nor is it effective cover fire.)"
3 to 5 round burst will keep somebody pinned down as well as a string of hundreds. Just make some noise on their bunker. I like to alternate one on the bunker with two in probable "pop-up" locations.
"Ghillied snipers should be stationary; innocent bushes do not normally deploy on other players. Conversely, if you have to cross an open area, there is no point in crawling if you're going to be seen anyway."
Movement is the first thing to catch your eye. It saved our ancestry from being eaten... It doesn't matter if you're in a ghillie, woodland camo, tigerstrip, or a pink bunny suit. I play with a guy that uses a bunny mask with big ears and tapes a huge cotton ball to his butt around Easter.
"Real snipers set traps, they don't generally walk into them. (Especially not traps set by someone who is probably over twice their age and is not in nearly as good shape.)"
Again, you were playing against newbies with an attitude. Felt good, didn't it... Yes. Yes it did. Very good.
"Bad things happen to "snipers" who use their ghillie to make themselves bullet-proof."
While in the dead zone after the game, I hope you walked by them and had the good sense to stop and just smile... There may have been some minor gloating. 
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Posted By: the_blade
Date Posted: 26 December 2006 at 9:21pm
shiny visored masks where a give away with some people the sun would reflect off them and give people away pretty easily..
------------- 95 base neon 3.0 cai, knifedged crankshaft 60 mill throttle body,14 crane cam crane springs/retainers eagle rods port matched/ polished intake p&p head shaved .015 phantom grip diff dohc exuast
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 27 December 2006 at 5:14am
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...
I wear tie-dye.
------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: an94
Date Posted: 27 December 2006 at 7:14am
DeTrevni wrote:
...
I wear tie-dye. |
yea I bet you do.
camo is the best thing in the woods. but you really have to know what your surroundings are so you can "blend" in. the bush will not change to YOUR color. you have to change to its color. having small bright colors on you will not matter much. just dont move them too much. example: ever watched a bright yellow bird fly into a bush? take your eyes off of it for just a moment, then look for it! you cant till it moves. why? cause the human eye picks up movement. so they (your eyes) are looking for movement, even if your looking for a yellow bird. heres some tips on looking for people with camo on, dont look for people. look for sticks that just dont look right, or sticks that move way too much (barrels). look for boots. look for masks. find something... light it up!!!
------------- 1 paintball gun package=$150
1 case of paint=$50
air & entry fee=$15
lighting up newbies all day long= Priceless
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Posted By: Connmann
Date Posted: 29 December 2006 at 8:07pm
i knew this color blind kid and he can pick out anyone in a ghillie from 100+ feet. this means that as long as i have him in my group there are no lucky shots from campers.
------------- table of what really makes your marker work
*Gnomes= autocockers
*Fairies= Angels
*Pixies= Timmys
*leprachauns= tippys
*goblins= spyders
*elves= mags
*lawyers= smartparts
Ya I'm that smart
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Posted By: nathanours
Date Posted: 30 December 2006 at 1:27am
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lol good story
and i never realized black was bad...
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 30 December 2006 at 1:32am
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Honestly the best you can wear is grey. It blends to all terrain well enough.
Urban-coloured camoflague is perfect for most areas besides the 9th dimension.
------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>
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Posted By: usagi.tetsu
Date Posted: 01 January 2007 at 1:49am
*ahem* http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sniper - Definition of Sniper #5: to shoot at individuals as opportunity offers from a concealed or distant position.
I don't know about the rest of you, but isn't that all paintballers? Or, well, all of us who aren't sitting in the deadbox because we took cover?
Just a thought, though I do have to agree: chuckleheads playing paintball calling themselves snipers are NOT elite military professionals... though that's what they want you to believe. It's paintball, have fun with it.
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 01 January 2007 at 2:25am
Hey, don't be hatin' on the tie dye. I love the stuff. It confuses people, plus, I'm not exactly the one creeping around.
------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: Hoboman
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 8:15pm
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Connmann wrote:
i knew this color blind kid and he can pick out anyone in a ghillie from 100+ feet. this means that as long as i have him in my group there are no lucky shots from campers. |
True story. I'm red-green colorblind and can do the same. That's why I'm never impressed by people who show up on the field with a full ghillie suit, and gun rag- they never blend in to me.
Personally I wear ACU bdu's because they look cool and they won't stick out like a sore thumb. I never expect any type of camo to fully conceal me.
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 10:05pm
Hoboman wrote:
Connmann wrote:
i knew this color blind kid and he can pick out anyone in a ghillie from 100+ feet. this means that as long as i have him in my group there are no lucky shots from campers. |
True story. I'm red-green colorblind and can do the same. That's why I'm never impressed by people who show up on the field with a full ghillie suit, and gun rag- they never blend in to me.
Personally I wear ACU bdu's because they look cool and they won't stick out like a sore thumb. I never expect any type of camo to fully conceal me. |
Good attitude; camoflage does not conceal. It only aids in the concealment an individual provides for themselves through their use of personal movement techniques, the way they take advantage of the terrain, and when they choose to (or not to) move.
As I pointed out above, I am amused/frustrated by the "nuber-snipers" who equate their ghillie to a predator cloaking device and run around in the open like no one else can see them.
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Posted By: nathanours
Date Posted: 03 January 2007 at 1:50am
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lol well let them keep doing it
i have only played a few games of pb and need targets that arent hard to get
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Posted By: nash
Date Posted: 04 January 2007 at 2:08pm
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A great post and a great response. 
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Posted By: estcstpnt
Date Posted: 04 January 2007 at 9:01pm
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You love to type don't you? Good story.
I myself wear a blue/black dye jersey for woods and speed. It's done me well.
------------- Thinking about it...
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 2:04am
carl_the_sniper wrote:
Honestly the best you can wear is grey. It blends to all terrain well enough.
Urban-coloured camoflague is perfect for most areas besides the 9th dimension. |
The best you can wear is to match your surroundings as closely as possible; whether it be ghillie, woodland pattern, or real-tree. What I'm assuming carl meant to say was the best all-around camo for those of us that get the opportunity to play in different environments (and can't afford multiple sets of BDUs) would be one of the darker (without the white) urban patterns.
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 2:17am
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I heard blue was a good color to wear in woodsball. Seriously. Sure, you'll get noticed more, but I understand that blue does something to the mind that makes you harder to zero in on and aim at. Also, I heard it makes you underestimate the bushes and cover around the player.
Some weird tidbits from me!
------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 5:27pm
As to the movment gives you away thing... Its absolutly true, I've heard a group of enemy coming, so I layed down on the side of a hill in this gullie, and waited for about 5 minutes, about 4 guys came in full camo standing straight up and I could instantly pick out every one of them, for cover I had a tiny tree that was about an inch thick, and that was about it, I had jeans and a dark blue shirt on, and I shot every one of them without ever being noticed...
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl
Forum Vice President
RIP T&O Forum
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Posted By: phil_stl
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 5:35pm
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__sneaky__ wrote:
As to the movment gives you away thing... Its absolutly true, I've heard a group of enemy coming, so I layed down on the side of a hill in this gullie, and waited for about 5 minutes, about 4 guys came in full camo standing straight up and I could instantly pick out every one of them, for cover I had a tiny tree that was about an inch thick, and that was about it, I had jeans and a dark blue shirt on, and I shot every one of them without ever being noticed... |
^ so what were you wearing?
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Posted By: Hoboman
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 9:09pm
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gullie as in ditch not ghillie
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Posted By: phil_stl
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 9:27pm
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opps my bad I wasn't reading correctly.
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Posted By: maddawg99
Date Posted: 08 January 2007 at 12:39pm
I agree with the movement being an eye-catcher. Additionally, human eyes pick up inverted "V's" and our brains process that as human. The "V" your legs make when standing or walking, the "V" your arm and torso make , the "V" a bent arm or leg makes. As someone mentioned , make yourself motionless, and hide all of your "V's"
Maddawg
------------- If you ain't first, your last
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