A5/flatline/egrip/drop forward/compressed air.

I recently added the dropforward and switched from co2 to compressed air.  Now I'm not able to get the fps over 250.  It shoots ok just not as good as it did before the change. 

Any idea????

Thanks for the reply Phil.  Looks like you have your 98 decked out.  Do all the internals really make a difference?  What makes the most difference.

Only a year into the game w/ my two kids.  I like my A5 ok but it seems like every time I add something it's something else to go wrong...???

Enjoy the sport though and don't mind spending a few bills to get an edge. 

hardball_67 wrote:   Thanks for the reply Phil.  Looks like you have your 98 decked out.  Do all the internals really make a difference?  What makes the most difference. Only a year into the game w/ my two kids.  I like my A5 ok but it seems like every time I add something it's something else to go wrong...??? Enjoy the sport though and don't mind spending a few bills to get an edge.

do you happen to know the output pressure of the tank? Tippmanns do best around 850 PSI(that's the ouput pressure of CO2). most high pressure, compressed air tanks have an output pressure of 800 or so PSI, but i'm just checking to be sure.

edit: i just saw that you have a flatline...you might just want to keep the velocity where it is. flatlines work best with the velocity 250-275 or so, so maybe it's not worth buying springs for just a few extra feet per second.

Flatlines actually work best around 280 fps in my experiences.  Plus springs are only like 8$ you can't go wrong.

Plus your setup looks pretty sweet.  Doing a few cyclone feed upgrades wouldn't be a bad Idea.  I have the vortex the lightening rod and the QEV and wider hoses, it's not a bad idea to do any of them. 

I suggest:

1. Wider hoses & QEV at same time

2. Then Vortex

3. Then if you still have cash Lightening Rod

If you are set on getting better internals the only one that makes a real difference I found was the Rufus Dawg wiked bolt... the Rear Titanium hammer reduces kick very slightly and does increase slightly cycle rate but IDK if it was worth the price tag?

Oh you could also get a palmers stabalizer!!  They are awesome!

I'm not sure how to tell the output or even if it's an LP or HP???  Did not even know a difference.  The tank is new, it says 3000 PSI and 48 CU on the side but not HP, LP or output.

Thanks again for the info.. 

So far I've had good luck with the A5.  I might try a different barrel other then the flatline.  The extra distance is good but I don't get too many breaks on the long shots and if it windy or the barrel gets a break you're fried.  It would be nice if you could remove is easily during game to clean if you needed to.

Oh man - I have plenty of Co2 tanks...  Do you want to buy any?

You are the first person to ever tell me Co2 would work better in any gun.  I never thought to put one back on and check the fps.  I noticed it and callibrated the gun after adding the dropdown and going to C air.   I'll post the results.

hardball_67 wrote:   Oh man - I have plenty of Co2 tanks...  Do you want to buy any? You are the first person to ever tell me Co2 would work better in any gun.  I never thought to put one back on and check the fps.  I noticed it and callibrated the gun after adding the dropdown and going to C air.   I'll post the results.

Yeah I generally find my 98 is happier on co2 and because its not the most efficient gun (because it wasn't designed for air) I would also sometimes run out of air before paint or been shot out. So i'd say stick with co2 personally. And just for the general knowledge there are some old guns (one of which is definatly a Tippmann but cant remember or find which one it was) that are designed to run on liquid co2 and need liquid in their system. Also read this http://www.docsmachine.com/tech/liquid.html - http://www.docsmachine.com/tech/liquid.html  its pretty interesting. Sorry for going off on one but shows that going to air isnt always the way.

hardball_67 wrote: A5/flatline/egrip/drop forward/compressed air. I recently added the dropforward and switched from co2 to compressed air.  Now I'm not able to get the fps over 250.  It shoots ok just not as good as it did before the change.  Any idea????

Spring change is likely the fix. An Apex would be easier to field clean while retaining the same flat trajectory.

phil_stl wrote: If you are set on getting better internals the only one that makes a real difference I found was the Rufus Dawg wiked bolt... the Rear Titanium hammer reduces kick very slightly and does increase slightly cycle rate but IDK if it was worth the price tag?

Phil gives good advise, as usual.  But, before buying any bolt upgrades, you should take a look at this http://www.a5og.net/5-internals/142-scientific-side-side-comparison-leading-aftermarket-front-bolts-5-a.html?highlight=bolt+comparison - thread  (from A5OG)!  There may be a better option than the Rufus Dawg

Capt.Jonesy wrote: phil_stl wrote: If you are set on getting better internals the only one that makes a real difference I found was the Rufus Dawg wiked bolt... the Rear Titanium hammer reduces kick very slightly and does increase slightly cycle rate but IDK if it was worth the price tag? Phil gives good advise, as usual.

Did you just say what I think you did?

jk...

So I'll try the A5 with Co2 tomorrow and see if the fps gets any higher.  If not, it's off for the spring.

Dumb question:  You are refering to the spring with the pin in it that pops out when you remove the back of the marker where the strap ring is right?  Am I looking for one with more spring or less? 

Thanks

hardball_67 wrote: So I'll try the A5 with Co2 tomorrow and see if the fps gets any higher.  If not, it's off for the spring. Dumb question:  You are refering to the spring with the pin in it that pops out when you remove the back of the marker where the strap ring is right?  Am I looking for one with more spring or less?  Thanks

The spring that drives the hammer (rear bolt).

Bruce,

I don't yet speak marker.  I'm trying, just not there yet.

So, is the spring I'm describing the one of which you speak?  If not, what chu talk'n 'bout willis?

Thanks.

hardball_67 wrote: Bruce, I don't yet speak marker.  I'm trying, just not there yet. So, is the spring I'm describing the one of which you speak?  If not, what chu talk'n 'bout willis? Thanks.

The spring that sits between the hammer (rear bolt) and the rear cap. Rides on the rod. That is the spring that drives the  hammer forward to strike the power valve pin. If this spring is weak, the velocity of the ball is reduced. Changes in hammers or installation of stocks that replace the rear cap can change the compression of the spring and reduce its effectiveness.

Fix is to install the stronger spring from a spring kit, or one can replace the rear cap with a Rear Velocity Adjuster (RVA) which allows you to compress the spring more or less as needed to change velocity. (with an RVA you may be able to open the velocity adjustment screw, in the front part of the power tube, and make you velocity adjustments only with the RVA)

Read the manual and look at the schematic view to learn the names of the parts so that when someone tells you what is required to solve your problems with the marker you will know what he is talking about. The still may be some confusion because different manuals have called the same part by different names...such as the Power Valve is also called the CVX valve...and the ASA is also called, hmmm, I have forgotten...someone else will point it out. The pin that the hammer hits which opens the CVX valve is commonly and correctly called a poppet valve. The whole unit, the CVX/Power Valve is called a valve but the pin that opens it is sometimes called the pin valve or poppet valve...sort of a valve in a valve!!! Anyway, you'll catch on.

Thanks for the info Bruce.

Capt.Jonesy wrote: Yomillio wrote: Capt.Jonesy wrote: phil_stl wrote: If you are set on getting better internals the only one that makes a real difference I found was the Rufus Dawg wiked bolt... the Rear Titanium hammer reduces kick very slightly and does increase slightly cycle rate but IDK if it was worth the price tag? Phil gives good advise, as usual.  Did you just say what I think you did? jk... I did, and I meant it.  Other than being a little over zealous about the 98C, Phil usually uses good logic to back up his recommendations.  Just my $.02

I concur.  Chill on Phil_stl. 

i installed a new spring, only a standard one and i still cant get it to chrono higher than 200.

Any other ideas?

Mantyluoto wrote: i installed a new spring, only a standard one and i still cant get it to chrono higher than 200. Any other ideas?

Yes, that wasn't the fix. The fix is an aftermarket spring kit with a stronger than standard spring.

There is another way that some find effective. Pull the guide rod out of the back end cap, drop a BB in the hole and slip the rod back into place in the cap. This raises the head of the rod which compresses the spring just a bit and will increase velocity. The BB it captured underneath the head of the rod and stays in place.

Ok i packed the end cap and it shoots 298!!

unless i connect the remote line then it shoots 250 so it must be faulty!

and this worked on two of them!

Cheers Bruce.

i just need to find a supplier for the enhanced spring pack

http://www.maddmanproducts.com/Home_Page/Spring_Kits.html - http://www.maddmanproducts.com/Home_Page/Spring_Kits.html

There are other online stores that also carry them for a little less money. Make sure you select the set for the 98!

Mack wrote: Regarding the remote problem. If you're using the same tank, then the issue is definitely with the remote. Before you replace anything on the remote check to make sure the on/off knob (assuming you have one) is not screwing in so far that it is interfering with the airflow. Try backing it off 1/4 turns and testing the velocity.

I agree with that. I once ran a remote setup that had exactly that problem. If you turned the valve knob too far it actually closed off the gas flow.

OK, I finally got back to the field today.  C02 is shooting around 300, compressed air is still around 250/260 so I know the drop forward is not the issue.  I added the bb to the back of the rear cap with no change. 

It looks like my next stop is to get the spring kit.  I'm breaking a lot of paint for some reason as well.  I'm shooting Empire Inertia and Diab. Heat....????

Played again today.  The Flat line sucked.  I had double the kills once I changed to the stock barrel (it was windy though).  I'm ditching the Flat line....  It's nice when it shoot "perfect" but I spend half my day tuning the kids guns.  Just looking for low maint.

hardball_67 wrote:   OK, I finally got back to the field today.  C02 is shooting around 300, compressed air is still around 250/260 so I know the drop forward is not the issue.  I added the bb to the back of the rear cap with no change.  It looks like my next stop is to get the spring kit.  I'm breaking a lot of paint for some reason as well.  I'm shooting Empire Inertia and Diab. Heat....????

Not familiar with Inertia, but I found Diablo Heat way too fragile to use with the Flatline...even with my LPK and operating pressures all the way down at 140 psi.

If you like the Flatline-like trajectory, but without all the complications, get an Apex. I have used both for a couple of years now and, except for running a test now and then, I have discontinued using my Flatline. I owned three at one time. Have sold two on Ebay and retain one (factory refurbished) for experimentation.

Thanks for the info Bruce.  Never heard of the Apex before.  Crazy is the first thing that comes to mind.  So why can this barrel handle the "bend" with good paint then the flatline?

Being old, big, and fat I'm always looking for an edge.  I think I posted on another thread I purchased a SP 16" for $21 as an improvement on the stock barrel.  I found the Apex for $80 and don't mind going that route if it replaces the flatline.  I was thinking of getting another anyway but if this is better and less...???

hardball_67 wrote: Thanks for the info Bruce.  Never heard of the Apex before.  Crazy is the first thing that comes to mind.  So why can this barrel handle the "bend" with good paint then the flatline? Being old, big, and fat I'm always looking for an edge.  I think I posted on another thread I purchased a SP 16" for $21 as an improvement on the stock barrel.  I found the Apex for $80 and don't mind going that route if it replaces the flatline.  I was thinking of getting another anyway but if this is better and less...???

A couple of things about the Apex that may make it able to handle fragile paint a bit more gently. The Flatline starts the ball rotating almost as soon as it starts moving.  This may cause the paintball to actually flatten and grow radially as it comes up to speed still inside the bore and touch the opposite side.

I have also found that paint with pronounced seams does not do well through the Flatline because, in my theoretical analysis, as it rolls along the top of the barrel to come up to speed it may bounce back and forth in the bore much like a a tire with a lump on it bounces as it rolls along the pavement.

The Apex imparts spin using a small rubber covered ramp in the last 1.5 inches of the barrel. The bore is open at that point so there is no opposite side with which the spinning ball might bounce or scuff. Also. the Flatline brings the ball up to rotational speed the same way every time...the only variable being velocity. The Apex spin imparting ramp can be adjusted, on the fly, to spin the ball more or less. So if the paint is fragile the ramp engagement can be reduced lessening the abuse of the paintball.

As for being old and fat, I fall into that category. Speedball is my incentive to get out and walk 2.5 miles five days a week. After a quarter mile to warm up I increase my speed to 140+ steps a minute. If I am diligent during the week I can keep up with my son (he's 17) on the mad dash to get to the first bunker.

Hey hardball_67,

Great to hear you out there with the kids!

I've had trouble with both Inertia and Heat in a Flatline.  It loves (cheap) Monster Balls (.692 diam) and Big Balls (.691 diam), though.  I've heard a number of people say small paint works better in a Flatty, but I've found the exact opposite: go big.

I also had the same issue with velocity on my A-5 and realized it was my stock.  I concur that the spring kit should fix it.

As far as cleaning it on the field, this will let you remove it in seconds:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Best-Tippmann-A-5-A5-Flatline-Barrel-Quick-Change-Kit_W0QQitemZ170085555897QQihZ007QQcategoryZ47234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - http://cgi.ebay.com/Best-Tippmann-A-5-A5-Flatline-Barrel-Qui ck-Change-Kit_W0QQitemZ170085555897QQihZ007QQcategoryZ47234Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Oh, and a belated welcome to the forum.

I'd go with a replacement power tube...and a new forward bolt at the same time.

It is possible that with the screw that loose you are loosing a significant amount of gas through it. You might try a few wraps of Teflon tape so that the threads engage and stops the leak. Sounds though that the screw is striped in the power tube.