Well then just be so happy that they have treated you so well through the years.

If I'm right they ask for your name and address and probably keep into account how many things they have sent you.  They probably don't want you ripping them off any more (or to see if you have been or not).

So just send it in and prove to them that you are an honest and loyal customer.  It's the least you can do, especially considering they will fix it for free. But just because they have the best customer service in the paintball industry, but it doesn't mean they will send you tons of free stuff cause you say it's broken.

*Stealth* wrote: USAF; You just had to drag me into that crap storm. Luckily it looks like the management is just looking into your mishaps, Shame such a ideal creation had to prove so... ... Flawed Brihard; Thank you for your patience. Glancing at the records, it appears that the factory recieved your assembly and it is in processing. I can't be certian where it is in the repair stages as I am on vacation, but i'm sure they'll take good care of it. Clogged tubes are a major issue, Tippmanns are certianly reliable, but some people treate them like dump trucks.

What creation?

Anyway, Chewp, How do your work for Tippmann if you live in Canada?

*Stealth* wrote: USAF; You just had to drag me into that crap storm. Luckily it looks like the management is just looking into your mishaps, Shame such a ideal creation had to prove so... ... Flawed Brihard; Thank you for your patience. Glancing at the records, it appears that the factory recieved your assembly and it is in processing. I can't be certian where it is in the repair stages as I am on vacation, but i'm sure they'll take good care of it. Clogged tubes are a major issue, Tippmanns are certianly reliable, but some people treate them like dump trucks.

What creation?

Anyway, Chewp, How do your work for Tippmann if you live in Canada?

jimbo wrote: High dollar marker

LOL.

Jack Carver wrote: Until you drop your shocker in the mud or your batteries die... then it's back to the Tippmann.

Replace the batteries w/ a spare set?

Mud should not be an issue, the only problem you should have w/ a high end electro gun getting damaged due to the elements is if you submerge one. What an uninformed, ignorant comment.

I agree with Panda Man A-5's are garbage. The 98c was the last good gun tippmann made. It was inexpensive at the time for what it was and it was highly upgradeable. All tippmann's now adays are relativly outdated compared to other guns in their price ranges.Why buy a tippmann when you can get a better performing spyder for less, or an electropneumatic for equal or slightly more than the tippmann.

The answer is simple, an intelligent person wouldn't, but alot of ...dumb...people would, since they are either a new player (not their fault), buying the gun due to Tippmanns reputation as a durable gun, or because they have succumbed to the elements of marketing "woodsball" and "scenario" guns.

You can even get older electro guns (like my 02 angel lcd) for less than an A-5 used, and they are definitely better than the tippmann line of markers, which havent really changed in perfomance since I the 98c came out.

I'm not even sure A-5's and X-7's are as durable as the 98's. I imagine the cyclone feeds are a liability, expecially if one breaks, since you can not simply remove it and slap on a new loader.

You are better off getting a gun from ICD, SP, Proto, Kingman, or any other number of manufacturers. Personally I think ICD customer service trumps Tippmanns, although I will admit SP's customer service is horrible.

Jack Carver wrote: Until you drop your shocker in the mud or your batteries die... then it's back to the Tippmann.

Replace the batteries w/ a spare set?

Mud should not be an issue, the only problem you should have w/ a high end electro gun getting damaged due to the elements is if you submerge one. What an uninformed, ignorant comment.

Any open bolt gun can have SERIOUS issues with debris. Remember when Avalanche got screwed big time in Tampa(I think) two years ago?  No only did their NME's crap out, but then their timmies took a dive.  They ended up being forced to use their angels from the year before.  What an uninformed, ignorant comment

You are better off getting a gun from ICD, SP, Proto, Kingman, or any other number of manufacturers. Personally I think ICD customer service trumps Tippmanns, although I will admit SP's customer service is horrible.

ICD is garbage, freestyles are so hit and miss(miss, more often than not) it's not even funny. People think you have to spend alot on an ION to make it good?  Try ACTUALLY preparing a stock freestyle for worthwhile tourny play.

Proto and SP aren't even in the same league as Tippmann or Kingman. People buy from them for different reasons than they buy from companies like Tippmann. Kingman tends to offer a bit of a more flashy package than Tippmann does, but they still have their drawbacks.  Spyders are not nearly as durable as tippys, and when it comes to tear down maintenace...?  Tippmann wins by a long shot.

Commander_Cool wrote: Jack Carver wrote: Until you drop your shocker in the mud or your batteries die... then it's back to the Tippmann. Replace the batteries w/ a spare set? Mud should not be an issue, the only problem you should have w/ a high end electro gun getting damaged due to the elements is if you submerge one. What an uninformed, ignorant comment. I agree with Panda Man A-5's are garbage. The 98c was the last good gun tippmann made. It was inexpensive at the time for what it was and it was highly upgradeable. All tippmann's now adays are relativly outdated compared to other guns in their price ranges.Why buy a tippmann when you can get a better performing spyder for less, or an electropneumatic for equal or slightly more than the tippmann. The answer is simple, an intelligent person wouldn't, but alot of ...dumb...people would, since they are either a new player (not their fault), buying the gun due to Tippmanns reputation as a durable gun, or because they have succumbed to the elements of marketing "woodsball" and "scenario" guns. You can even get older electro guns (like my 02 angel lcd) for less than an A-5 used, and they are definitely better than the tippmann line of markers, which havent really changed in perfomance since I the 98c came out. I'm not even sure A-5's and X-7's are as durable as the 98's. I imagine the cyclone feeds are a liability, expecially if one breaks, since you can not simply remove it and slap on a new loader. You are better off getting a gun from ICD, SP, Proto, Kingman, or any other number of manufacturers. Personally I think ICD customer service trumps Tippmanns, although I will admit SP's customer service is horrible.

Kingman over tippmann never in a million years. IMO

usafpilot07 wrote: Commander_Cool wrote: Jack Carver wrote: Until you drop your shocker in the mud or your batteries die... then it's back to the Tippmann. Replace the batteries w/ a spare set? Mud should not be an issue, the only problem you should have w/ a high end electro gun getting damaged due to the elements is if you submerge one. What an uninformed, ignorant comment. Any open bolt gun can have SERIOUS issues with debris. Remember when Avalanche got screwed big time in Tampa(I think) two years ago?  No only did their NME's crap out, but then their timmies took a dive.  They ended up being forced to use their angels from the year before.  What an uninformed, ignorant comment You are better off getting a gun from ICD, SP, Proto, Kingman, or any other number of manufacturers. Personally I think ICD customer service trumps Tippmanns, although I will admit SP's customer service is horrible. ICD is garbage, freestyles are so hit and miss(miss, more often than not) it's not even funny. People think you have to spend alot on an ION to make it good?  Try ACTUALLY preparing a stock freestyle for worthwhile tourny play. Proto and SP aren't even in the same league as Tippmann or Kingman. People buy from them for different reasons than they buy from companies like Tippmann. Kingman tends to offer a bit of a more flashy package than Tippmann does, but they still have their drawbacks.  Spyders are not nearly as durable as tippys, and when it comes to tear down maintenace...?  Tippmann wins by a long shot. A-5's aren't such a bad product, they simply need work(just like all of tippmann's other guns) to reach a "high" level of performance.

Uhhh...any gun can have serious issues w/ debris, sort of a common sense thing. Singling out electropneumatic closed bolt guns (although you said open), seems to show a bias. Any gun can experience mechanical difficulties, the question is are electropneumatics unreliable? The answer is no. Next question is do they perform better than tippmanns? The answer is yes.

I will admit I have never prepared a stock freestyle for tournament play. My only experience comes from my brothers 04 naughty dawg freestyle. However since I mentioned guns AROUND THE PRICE RANGE of tippmanns, the 550 dollar ICD gun is a pretty poor comparison. How about the Promaster?

Regardless, you are talking about getting guns ready for "worth while" tourney play to a line of guns and intended use that they generally arent used for. I say the electro guns function well in the woods (which are where most tippmann owners use them), and you compare them to using guns in a tournament? I assure you a stick A-5, compared to a stock Freestyle (as you used in your example), would not perform as well.

Yea I realize Proto and SP aren't in the same league as Tippmann, because they are better than Tippmanns. I know alot of people that start out owning tippmanns, but not many that switch from better guns to tippmanns....state some statistics? Now what I was doing was comparing other guns around the Tippmann price range.

T98c-a5-x7: $120-$300

Ion: 200, Promaster 250 (lasoya is now 200), SP8 300, (PM6's 550 & PMR: 400, a little higher than the tippmanns). Thing is, they all outperform a tippmann, obviously they aren't "in the same leage" as tippmann's. They are clearly better. The thing is THEY ARE IN THE SAME PRICE RANGE! Why would you want to buy a tippmann then, its simply illogical.

Oh I realize Spyders aren't as durable as Tippmann's, I thought i mentioned that I included them because they are significantly cheaper then Tippmanns. Spyder Sonix: $65 vs Tippmann 98c: $120, well I'll just have to go with the cheaper of the 2 easily upgradeable guns. Expecially since I am buying an entry level gun, they all utilize similar technology, are both easily upgradeable and I eventually either plan on getting a better gun, or do not play enought to warrant spending alot of money.

Interesting how no one bothered to comment on the sections of my post saying buying older high end electro's cheaper than a tippmann is a better option, or the fact that tippmann's are overpriced for what they are, and are playing up the ideas of a milsim and woodsball specific marker in order to sell guns, that have changed very little in the past 10 years.

How about someone reply this time that isn't on the company payroll?

brihard wrote: Drop any one of those on a rock. I'd have no problem doing that with my 98 to prove a point. Tippmanns are as close to idiot proof and abuse proof as any marker out there. They will simply *work*. Short of assembling it wrong, or goofing with the air supply, your tippmann will work. Moreover, the Tippmann line are far more suitable for styles of play that encourage modification of the markers. I, for one, can't stand to shoot without a shoulder stock. The recreational style of play grossly outnumbers speedball in terms of number of players. Used Tippmanns are available upgraded and dirt cheap, and again *will* work. Twenty years from now I'll probably still bust out my Tippmann from time to time. Trying to compare Tippmanns to electropneumatics is apples and oranges; they're made to suit different styles of play. Moreover, take an A5- upgraded with a few mods a rather impressive rate of fire is achievable, and you don't have to go out of pocket for a hundred dollar hopper, either. Don't even think of complaining about the weight, because I will laugh in your face for being weak. Tippmanns are not overpriced by what they are, and in stating the contrary you show your ignorance of economics. Where supply meets demand, that is what it's worth- a simple Engel graph with supply and demand curves demonstrates this. 'Value' is not an absolute, it is a market fiction- it's merely a clumsy attempt to aggregate what each individual in society would be willing to pay for the product. And I'm not on the company payroll. Panda: Add the cost of an HPA tank and a motorized hopper to that automag for a more realistic comparison.

Okay, first off....if you did not catch my signature: I own a tippmann 98c.

1) I never complained about weight.

2) Since you had to be a jerk and argue semantics and economics instead of responding to my statement that there are markers that perform better for the same price as a tippmann (which is funny, since I was studying for my macroeconomics midterm, when I read your response). Let me rephrase...

I feel there are better performing markers for the same price, and therefor it is a waste of resources to buy an inferior product. Obviously the market determines price, so therefore if the company is profitable and selling units it not overpriced (are they efficient in their pricing of Tippmanns though?). The real question is, why is there a demand for the product.

I aleady stated why I think there is demand for the product at the current price, and as a result I said there were other alternatives that would cost you the same, but return higher performance.

I want to thankyou for wasting my time with this post, since you didn't contradict anything I said about Tippmanns, just decided to attack they way in which I worded it, playing antics, with semantics, persay. Your post was not onlya waste of time, but assinine as well.

usafpilot07 wrote: Commander_Cool wrote: Jack Carver wrote: Until you drop your shocker in the mud or your batteries die... then it's back to the Tippmann. Replace the batteries w/ a spare set? Mud should not be an issue, the only problem you should have w/ a high end electro gun getting damaged due to the elements is if you submerge one. What an uninformed, ignorant comment. Any open bolt gun can have SERIOUS issues with debris. Remember when Avalanche got screwed big time in Tampa(I think) two years ago?  No only did their NME's crap out, but then their timmies took a dive.  They ended up being forced to use their angels from the year before.  What an uninformed, ignorant comment You are better off getting a gun from ICD, SP, Proto, Kingman, or any other number of manufacturers. Personally I think ICD customer service trumps Tippmanns, although I will admit SP's customer service is horrible. ICD is garbage, freestyles are so hit and miss(miss, more often than not) it's not even funny. People think you have to spend alot on an ION to make it good?  Try ACTUALLY preparing a stock freestyle for worthwhile tourny play. Proto and SP aren't even in the same league as Tippmann or Kingman. People buy from them for different reasons than they buy from companies like Tippmann. Kingman tends to offer a bit of a more flashy package than Tippmann does, but they still have their drawbacks.  Spyders are not nearly as durable as tippys, and when it comes to tear down maintenace...?  Tippmann wins by a long shot. A-5's aren't such a bad product, they simply need work(just like all of tippmann's other guns) to reach a "high" level of performance.

Uhhh...any gun can have serious issues w/ debris, sort of a common sense thing. Singling out electropneumatic closed bolt guns (although you said open), seems to show a bias. Any gun can experience mechanical difficulties, the question is are electropneumatics unreliable? The answer is no. Next question is do they perform better than tippmanns? The answer is yes.

I will admit I have never prepared a stock freestyle for tournament play. My only experience comes from my brothers 04 naughty dawg freestyle. However since I mentioned guns AROUND THE PRICE RANGE of tippmanns, the 550 dollar ICD gun is a pretty poor comparison. How about the Promaster?

Regardless, you are talking about getting guns ready for "worth while" tourney play to a line of guns and intended use that they generally arent used for. I say the electro guns function well in the woods (which are where most tippmann owners use them), and you compare them to using guns in a tournament? I assure you a stock A-5, compared to a stock Freestyle (as you used in your example), would not perform as well (as the Freestyle).

Yea I realize Proto and SP aren't in the same league as Tippmann, because they are better than Tippmanns. I know alot of people that start out owning tippmanns, but not many that switch from better guns to tippmanns....state some statistics? Now what I was doing was comparing other guns around the Tippmann price range.

I would bet that more people stick in the Tippmann, Kingman, JT, BE range than move on to "bigger and better things."

Consider in 2002, which is the latest "census" I can accurately remember, there were roughly 8 million paintballers in the United States.  Less than a million of those players played in tournaments, local or larger, throughout the entire country.  If you look at this in the terms of High-end sales versus Low-end sales, there is a much larger market for guns that Tippmann, Kingman, and the like produce.

T98c-a5-x7: $120-$300

Ion: 200, Promaster 250 (lasoya is now 200), SP8 300, (PM6's 550 & PMR: 400, a little higher than the tippmanns). Thing is, they all outperform a tippmann, obviously they aren't "in the same league" as tippmann's. They are clearly better. However, THEY ARE IN THE SAME PRICE RANGE! Why would you want to buy a tippmann then, its simply illogical.

Interesting how no one bothered to comment on the sections of my post saying buying older high end electro's cheaper than a tippmann is a better option, or the fact that tippmann's are overpriced for what they are, and are playing up the ideas of a milsim and woodsball specific marker in order to sell guns, that have changed very little in the past 10 years.

How about someone reply this time that isn't on the company payroll?

I feel like jumping in on this.

I would like you to explain, in detail, why I should basically throw my "outdated, obselete, piece of crap Tippmann" in the garbage and run out and buy an Angel, or another high-end Marker. Seeing as how it is such a better deal.

My Tippmann can shoot just as accurate, if not more accurate due to egronomics than an Angel or Ion, and within say, 10 BPS of your Angel. Please explain to me how my marker is garbage.

As for Panda, I have a Mag too. Very nice marker.

SSOK wrote: I feel like jumping in on this. I would like you to explain, in detail, why I should basically throw my "outdated, obselete, piece of crap Tippmann" in the garbage and run out and buy an Angel, or another high-end Marker. Seeing as how it is such a better deal. My Tippmann can shoot just as accurate, if not more accurate due to egronomics than an Angel or Ion, and within say, 10 BPS of your Angel. Please explain to me how my marker is garbage. As for Panda, I have a Mag too. Very nice marker.

1) You obviously read none of my explanations... Tippmanns are decent markers, I just think 220 (A-5) dollars for an en entry level blow back gun (or more $$- X7) is is not the best purchase you could make when there are what I view as better markers in the same price range.

2) Other point I tried to make was that there is nothing wrong with owning a tippmann, but that you should not go out and buy one on the basis of  "oh my gosh i play in the woods, and am hardcore,..therefore I need a tippmann, because there is a particular gun suited specifically for playing in the woods. When that certainly isn't so, any gun can be used in any format, and as a result you should buy a gun based upon your own tastes and based upon knowledge/ fact.

3) I said that IMO using an electro "speedball" gun in the woods offers the advantage of a higher ROF, and a lighter weight, for the same price as "woodsball" markers for the same price. I also stated that while you can play with a "woodsball" marker in speedball, they tend to be heavier, larger and shoot slower, giving a disadvantage when compared out of the box to other guns in the same price range.

4) Due to ergonomics....I assume you mean you have a stock?...which while its a personal preference, I feel they are sort of pointless. How about paint to barrel match, and a consistent velocity (allowed for by HPA) is more important than your stock. Of course ergonomics are important to using anything... are you saying that other gun manufacturers spend alot of money designing a gun that is difficul to hold and aim accurately?

Oh my Angel or SP8 probably have less of a recoil than your Tippmann... giving it another advantage on shooting accurately, as there is less movement from the gun while firing (although this is minimal, you will notice the difference between an electropneumatic and a low end blow back).

5) Your tippmann can shoot within 10bps of my angel. Well my angel's board has a MROF of 20bps (i think), so I guess you say your gun can shoot 10bps... which is not bad. But that means my gun shoots twice as fast as yours,... giving my angel the advantage.