So I got to thinking.

Over the past weeks or so I have been questioning my faith (Catholicism).  I've thought and thought and finally come to my own conclusion about the existence of Christ and God, so on and so forth.  Anyways, these thoughts lead me to a question.

What is Heaven?

I always thought (In my Catholic days) that it would be a place where everything is perfect in every way, shape, and form.  I'm guessing that most of the Catholic community thinks the same way.  Correct me if I'm wrong on that assumption. 

If Heaven is a place where everything is perfect, how can you appreciate it?  If you are a millionaire and given a Dodge, you won't care.  You haven't gone through the pain of not having a car or the money to purchase one.  You would most likely choose to have a Ferrari or a Lamborghini of some sort.  You have to know pain and hardship to appreciate the things given to you.  Does this occur in "Heaven"?

Also, to do everything that you enjoy in "Heaven" for all eternity has to be hell, right?  You can do everything that could ever be conceived by the human mind and still, eventually, get bored; and then what?  Do you sit (or hover, if you have angel wings) on your butt and chill for eternity?  That's a hell if I ever heard it.

Opinions? Comments?  I would really like to hear them.

Peace

ekeboo wrote: Im protestant, It simple for me. Heaven is where everything is perfect and we wont need anything.

So, what do you do there?  And when you say you don't need anything... You can't get stuff?  You can't enjoy a fat steak from now and then because you won't "need" it because you won't be hungry?  And even if you could eat the steak... would you enjoy a "perfect" steak each time you ate it?  Wouldn't it just taste the same time after time?

FROG MAN wrote: if heaven exsists, i doubt we can comprihend it atm.

So does your "soul" change when you go to "heaven" so you can?  You won't be the same person when you get to the Pearly gates, so...?  I think i'm getting myself confused now.  crap.

FROG MAN wrote: DarkSideEchoes wrote: FROG MAN wrote: if heaven exsists, i doubt we can comprihend it atm. So does your "soul" change when you go to "heaven" so you can?  You won't be the same person when you get to the Pearly gates, so...?  I think i'm getting myself confused now.  crap. well the way i think about it, (if your christian), when we were created, we were created to think, and live within laws of the world. These laws limit are knowledge of spirit or soul, and can confuse us, when we leave this world, the boundries created by god are gone, and we will understand.... well everything. edit, example, a dog can learn? yes, cand a dog learn physics? no, So whats saying that the human mind isnt also confind by boundries

A Dog can learn physics.  Every organism on this planet has to learn the principles of physics to survive.  A dog can calculate when and where a ball will land, and doing so can jump up and catch it mid-air. 

Anyways, after saying that, I do not think that the mind has boundaries.  Take hallucinogenic drugs, for example.  Drugs don't do anything, they are just chemicals.  When they get put in your brain, it is motivated to produce colors, shapes, and in the most extreme cases, out of body experiences.  As far as learning goes, all the brain needs is time.  While some brains may be slower (dogs) and some faster (humans), both of them can learn things just at a different pace.  Our organs give out which can inhibit our ability to keep learning. 

Damn that was deep as hell.  Rock.

FROG MAN wrote: DarkSideEchoes wrote: FROG MAN wrote: DarkSideEchoes wrote: FROG MAN wrote: if heaven exsists, i doubt we can comprihend it atm. So does your "soul" change when you go to "heaven" so you can?  You won't be the same person when you get to the Pearly gates, so...?  I think i'm getting myself confused now.  crap. well the way i think about it, (if your christian), when we were created, we were created to think, and live within laws of the world. These laws limit are knowledge of spirit or soul, and can confuse us, when we leave this world, the boundries created by god are gone, and we will understand.... well everything. edit, example, a dog can learn? yes, cand a dog learn physics? no, So whats saying that the human mind isnt also confind by boundries A Dog can learn physics.  Every organism on this planet has to learn the principles of physics to survive.  A dog can calculate when and where a ball will land, and doing so can jump up and catch it mid-air.  Anyways, after saying that, I do not think that the mind has boundaries.  Take hallucinogenic drugs, for example.  Drugs don't do anything, they are just chemicals.  When they get put in your brain, it is motivated to produce colors, shapes, and in the most extreme cases, out of body experiences.  As far as learning goes, all the brain needs is time.  While some brains may be slower (dogs) and some faster (humans), both of them can learn things just at a different pace.  Our organs give out which can inhibit our ability to keep learning.  Damn that was deep as hell.  Rock. hmmm, i dont know enough about the brain, but i do belive there is going to be, or already is concepts that exsists in all fields of science that are brains cant comprihend, but its funny because if that does exsist we wont ever know also, if are sense of taste was gone, could we comprehend how anything tatses (past the fact of texture etc...) or if everything in the world was colour blind.. could we comprihend colour?

Of course if we didn't have our sense of taste we couldn't taste anything.. but I really don't see where you are going with that.  Also if we were colorblind, we would be able to distinguish color as shades of grey, but... again i don't see where you are coming from.  The way I'm getting this is that maybe after you die you can perceive different dimensions?   

Squishey wrote: im not trying to blasphemy anyone but i dont believe in or think there is a heaven, hell, god, or any of that other stuff. the only religion i think is 'real' is buddhism, because they basically live your life the way you want and if buddah isnt right for you then find something else, keep in mind this is a vast simplification of there text. imo, religion is a scapegoat for people who cant blame there problems on themselves. (sorry if i offend anyone)

I don't like to offend people either but I think thats the basic jist of it simplified immensely.  I agree and do not mean to offend anybody by claiming that.

prolitesniper wrote: different ppl believe different things, the bible says its streets are gold, but in what form are we to take are human form? or a ball of energy type thing?

I like Platinum better.  Therefore, if I went to heaven I wouldn't like the streets as much as if they were Platinum, so my heaven experience isn't perfect.

FROG MAN wrote: DarkSideEchoes wrote: prolitesniper wrote: different ppl believe different things, the bible says its streets are gold, but in what form are we to take are human form? or a ball of energy type thing? I like Platinum better.  Therefore, if I went to heaven I wouldn't like the streets as much as if they were Platinum, so my heaven experience isn't perfect. oh sh!t *universe implodes*

Well I didn't quite mean what you took it for... but it does kind of prove that the whole "pefection" and "golden streets" can't occur.

FROG MAN wrote: DarkSideEchoes wrote: FROG MAN wrote: DarkSideEchoes wrote: prolitesniper wrote: different ppl believe different things, the bible says its streets are gold, but in what form are we to take are human form? or a ball of energy type thing? I like Platinum better.  Therefore, if I went to heaven I wouldn't like the streets as much as if they were Platinum, so my heaven experience isn't perfect. oh sh!t *universe implodes* Well I didn't quite mean what you took it for... but it does kind of prove that the whole "pefection" and "golden streets" can't occur. oh i thought you were joking ok, your catholic you should know the bible is ment to interpret not takin litteraly one interpretation could be takin as street, unoticed, walked on, dirty gold, wealth beauty, conclusion, unoticed dirty things in the world will be changed to become beautifull and amazing.

For one thing, I was Catholic.  Second, there are most definitely Catholics who take the bible word for word.  Actually, more than you might think.

FROG MAN wrote: im going to bed soon, I have mid terms tomorow, but ill leave you with this If you seek out your answer to prove how heaven can exsist, you will find your answer If you look to prove that heaven cant exsist you will prove it dosnt. You are going to have to make this desicision your self, and i pray for you by the time your life finishes your answers that plauge you will be answered. good night

Rock.

I was raised in a fairly strict catholic household. Church on Sunday, after church bible study, after school bible study.... Nunns suck! The Father was pretty kool tho.

Anyways, we were taught Heaven (if you got in, you were judged before entering) was to be re-united with loved ones that had passed away and being in the pressence of God, Jesus, Mary and angels.

My Heaven would be when I die my soul travels through out the universe finding new civilizations and finding the answer to where we come from.

jerseypaint wrote: The goverment knows what heaven is. They just won't reveal the files.

Yeah.  Imagine what would happen if the government released files on extraterrestrials.  Oh shiznat Religion would be in trouble

I'll be honest, I didn't read all the posts in here before posting this,
but I don't think I need to in order for me to say what I need to.


Man cannot comprehend heaven, and therefore should not try. But also you must remember that God does not say we are going to spend eternity in heaven, read the book of Revelation, he says we will spend eternity on a new perfect earth. And he describes a little of what this new earth is like in the book of Revelation.

EDIT:
Spelling errors fixed.

There was an episode of the twilight zone like this. The guy dies and goes to what he thinks is heaven every thing is exactly how he wants it, he never loses whilst gambling etc one day he gets bored of it and tells his angel to make things a challenge, and nothing happens, later the guy tells his angel to send him to the other place, hell if this is what heaven is, the angel says this is the other place and laughs.

Razgriz Ghost wrote: There was an episode of the twilight zone like this. The guy dies and goes to what he thinks is heaven every thing is exactly how he wants it, he never loses whilst gambling etc one day he gets bored of it and tells his angel to make things a challenge, and nothing happens, later the guy tells his angel to send him to the other place, hell if this is what heaven is, the angel says this is the other place and laughs.

I saw that one.  Pretty Good.

battlefreak wrote: Bolt3 wrote: Too bad.It's not real. Just imaginary. Too bad. You have no argument. Go back into your cave.

All comprehension is dependant on the brain. We understand every bit of matter that makes us up. . All that life is is that stuff reacting with eachother in a certain way. If that stops, thought, comprehension, etc. dies.

Even halucinogenic drugs proouce things from your own brain. It not like there's really some being speaking to you, just like you didn't take a wrong turn and end up in russia.

battlefreak wrote: Bolt3 wrote: Too bad.It's not real. Just imaginary. Too bad. You have no argument. Go back into your cave.

Prove it.

Tae Kwon Do wrote: It is a lot like a ball pit.

I lol'ed.  Who doesn't love a good ball pit?

TheSpookyKids87 wrote: Tae Kwon Do wrote: It is a lot like a ball pit. That made me laugh like a little school girl.

I don't get it.  The only thing that comes to mind when I see ball pits, is well, "piss."

I offer this tidbit on the basis that all the other 3 pages behind this are tl;dr.

The prospect of Heaven gives people hope. It givest them reason to try. False or not, it makes people happy, and who are any of you to try to deny that to them. Let them believe whatever. It honestly infuriates me when any time someone says something remotely "Jesusy" here, people are like "OMG! FAKEZORZ!" What's it matter to you, let them enjoy what they want to.

Now, on the flip side, I can't stand the pushing of beliefes on otheres. If I'm Christian, I personally won't push my beliefs onto you, and I expect the same treatment from you atheists. I acknowledge the fact that there are Christians who seem brainwashed and try to pull you into it, but they are a small minority.

But I gotta think, who cares? Couldn't we just strive to be better people without the need to threaten us with hell? I don't know.

Heaven's existence is impossible to comprehend because we as humans base our entire earthly life on emotions driven by chemical process/nerve response.

For example-You like the filet mignon because it tastes good, but in reality you're just fulfilling the needs of your own human body. The same goes for sex, sleep, whatever you do. You enjoy things on a temporal basis-you might like pizza this week, hate it the next. You might need sleep at the moment, but when it's over you no longer desire it.

However the Bible states heaven as a higher existence. If our bodies are changed from corrupting to non corrupting, and given a higher spiritual existence, then those needs and chemical responses (aka emotions) no longer exist, and we ourselves exist in a higher level. So heaven, in a sense, cannot be described, anticipated, or enjoyed, on a human level.

Many of you have brought up the fact that once you go to heaven that you will change and become "enlightened" and lose your chemical/emotional needs.  Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

I mean, If I was a sinner and got accepted to heaven, I would become enlightened, and be like everyone else.  Where does your personality come in?  You would be a completely changed person.  That seems kind of fishy to me.