...  are completely freaking insane.

I was doing fine at the poker table until this guy rolls up.  Just retired after 20+ years in.  He starts ordering tequila shots for the table, and who am I to let a man drink alone?

It quickly got ugly.  Very, very ugly.

The tequila was Cuervo 1800, which was the best that the casino would come up with.  Bummer, since I will admit to being a tequila snob.  But after the first 5 or 6 shots I didn't care anymore.

The good news is that I am a better poker player drunk than sober.  The same was not true of everybody else there.   :)

My head and stomach, however, are not so happy.

I've had really bad experiences with tequila...vodka produces worse hangovers though.

Those guys dont fool around. A buddy of mine drinks me soundly under the table at every opportunity, and even embarasses my friends who can handle well more than I can. Last time I went shot for shot with him I woke up with my face pressed into his hardwood floor, the rest of me on the couch, in a pile of drool. I then decided it must be morning, so therefore I must be sober. I walked by him(he was playing video games on the couch) said by, tried to leave and backed directly into the snowbank at the end of his driveway. Apparently it was far from morning and I was far from sober enough to drive.

You have to be careful drinking with guys like that. They have their own unique culture and can vary from some Lance Cpl. who just drinks like a fish, to some scary old NCO who knows what you're thinking before you think it. Having a drill instructor who knows what he's doing try to get into your mind and screw with you is a rough time.

Kristofer wrote: Someone has to be an officer, no sense in bashing them. As for our drinking, we dont all drink like that, just when we want to have a good time. Yes we are crazy, I've been told many a time, by Marine officers you need to be slightly retarded to join the Marines, no I disagree, because I know I am not retarded. Maybe they mean retarded in a crazy way. I cant remember the last time I drank with my buddies in the Marines and more than one of us actually passed out. We dont all get tanked like so many believe. But then again, sometimes we do. Its all in good fun, we like to have a good time. To make a point, this weekend, I may drink just a little, as in two shots at most. Because I just dont feel like drinking. Last weekend I only drank saturday night. Its good times.

im in the navy.....and we definately do get tanked

636andy636. wrote: Wait wait wait, Clark, what happened after you and him were drunk?

I woke up naked in my hotel room...(!)

Clark Kent wrote: I woke up naked in my hotel room...(!)

Sweet [/Cartman]

After my brother finished his basic training and AIT, he reported to his first National Guard drill on a friday night. As he was hanging around, his LT slammed into the barracks and yelled to him.

"Lonecke!"

he said he just about crapped himself, he'd been there two hours...what could he have screwed up already?

"Why aren't you drinking?"

Linus wrote: Kristofer wrote: Linus wrote: Kristofer wrote: Linus wrote: One day our DI came in and said "I'm sick from drinking and tired from (sex)... leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" A day of no IT...worked for us.    would IT be the same as quarterdecking? Exact same thing. Quarterdeck = IT IT for DI's = Individual Training IT for Recruits = Individual Thrashing gotcha. that must have been a nice day though. We never had a day like that. bummer. They would make us pour salt on our tongues though. and pepper, I always hated that the most. WHat I hated the most was water I.T.... drink water bulls and spin in circles until you puke.. never fun. I understand everything in boot has a purpose (like up/downs) but.. water I.T.?

The absolute worst is when someone writes home to mommy complaining that he was ordered not to drink milk in the morning(before PT) and she calls Brig. Gen Trion, who calls your SDI and tells him that his recruits are to drink milk. We were all forced to have at least three glasses, then go directly to the pit until half the platoon vomited, or run up and down the ladderwell(can't tell you how much I hated being on 3rd deck) with all our gear, then jam ourselves(80 something recruits) into the showers, and continue screwing with us until they ran out of time. After two weeks of that, we all got the point.

That incident, and the memories of the good times playing footlocker games until well after lights out are what I think of anytime I get the retarded idea of trying that again.

Reb Cpl wrote: After my brother finished his basic training and AIT, he reported to his first National Guard drill on a friday night. As he was hanging around, his LT slammed into the barracks and yelled to him. "Lonecke!" he said he just about crapped himself, he'd been there two hours...what could he have screwed up already? "Why aren't you drinking?"

My reserve center last drill told us that on this upcoming drill we would be having a barbeque in the evening and consuming adult beverages. My CO then asked for a show of hand of all under 21. I of course raised my hand. He then said "well your all drinking first".

Kris, he obviously put his finger there to ensure you didn't let the bolt slip, since you knew he'd murder you if you slammed his finger in the bolt. We played a ton of rifle games, often for no particular reason other than for drill. Our SDI always had something up his sleeve, like removing out cleaning kits and filling our buttstocks with baggies of wet sand to weight our rifles.

Idiots can be dealt with after lights out, either by being pelted with other people's canteens(a full canteen to the groin will ruin your night) or completely filling his boots with shaving gel, which results in a priceless look on their face when they put them on in the morning. We figured out that most of our "screw-screw" games would continue until we were all pissed enough that fights broke out. Either someone would knock out the guy who got us in trouble in the first place, or a few guys would just take one for the platoon and start a random fight. Our killhat loved getting us to beat the crap out of each other.

I had a friend of mine get in deep with one of his DI's in boot. He was ordered to take out the trash or some such chore, and didn't get it finished quick enough, so he was ordered to climb to the top of the dumpster and jump off until the DI told him to stop.

He told him "No" and that under the guidelines of a recruit he was prohibited from damaging government property, and that since HE was government property, he could not risk it.

He had to run around the compound with a garbage can over his head for the rest of the day screaming I'm a -bird.

Reb Cpl wrote: I had a friend of mine get in deep with one of his DI's in boot. He was ordered to take out the trash or some such chore, and didn't get it finished quick enough, so he was ordered to climb to the top of the dumpster and jump off until the DI told him to stop. He told him "No" and that under the guidelines of a recruit he was prohibited from damaging government property, and that since HE was government property, he could not risk it. He had to run around the compound with a garbage can over his head for the rest of the day screaming I'm a -bird.

Thats probably the funniest thing ive heard in a while.

Reb Cpl wrote: He told him "No"

I'll take a stab in the dark here and guess that there are very, very few circumstances when this is a good idea.

brihard wrote: Wow... Crazy differences in instructional mentality between the U.S. military and the Canadian forces. We give our troops hell, but a lot of what you guys are saying is straight up abuse; there's no constructive value to it.

On another note, garbage stories:

On qual day at the range, one relay in the pits kept getting yelled at to check their targets, the recruits running it were obviously retarded and couldn't see a bullet hole in a target to save their lives. Our DI gave on of the recruits a trashcan and made him carry it straight out in front of him while doing a duck walk up and down the catwalk collecting everybody's trash, and picking up anything blowing around. He made him scream "trash trash trash!" every step, to which the DI would respond by saying "No. It's  TRASH TRASH TRASH!" and punctuating every "trash" by beating on the can with a broken lollypop(2X4). Every recruit had to contribute to the can unless they wanted to trade places with him, and the DI occasionally encouraged recruits to drop their garbage so the kid would have to pick it up while holding the can.

Some retard also managed to lose his fireing pin and not tell the DI, so guess who had to jump into the dumpster and pull out every bag of garbage and go through every peice of trash in it, only to not find the pin? Hint: Not the DI

rednekk98 wrote: Linus wrote: Oh.. i felt abused.. so did everyone in my platoon. I dont care what anyone says.. you DO get "corrected" in boot. And sometimes thrown against the whiskey locker and arm barred and kicked....     I was at right shoulder one time and the M16 wasnt tight to my shoulder... I learned after that.   My SDI seemed to do a pretty good job of making us think any physical contact was for our own good, and even asked if anybody had a probelm being touched, and those recruits(most figured it was a trap and said nothing) who said they had problem never got too jacked up. The rest of us got full out oldschool handling. I'd much rather get kicked in the chest than spend 45min on the quarter deck. Getting quarterdecked until you cant pass a PFTand get dropped is a lot worse than being sore for a day tops. I was picked up by the throat, tossed into stuff, hit in the face with: blue money and bible bag, M-16, hygene kit, moonbeam etc and sure it sucked, but aside from one nosebleed it wasn't anything that caused injury or pain for more than a few seconds.

That's bull. I have no problem correcting my recruits without hitting them...

One does not need to be physically violent to get a point across. Those who are not motivated to sort themselves out without getting punched in the head probably have no business being there anyway. I personally have no use for soldiers who are utterly blind followers and who don't think for themselves- that kind of abusive instructional style quashes the same personal characteristics that later develop into leadership ability...

Kristofer wrote: brihard wrote: rednekk98 wrote: Linus wrote: Oh.. i felt abused.. so did everyone in my platoon. I dont care what anyone says.. you DO get "corrected" in boot. And sometimes thrown against the whiskey locker and arm barred and kicked....     I was at right shoulder one time and the M16 wasnt tight to my shoulder... I learned after that. My SDI seemed to do a pretty good job of making us think any physical contact was for our own good, and even asked if anybody had a probelm being touched, and those recruits(most figured it was a trap and said nothing) who said they had problem never got too jacked up. The rest of us got full out oldschool handling. I'd much rather get kicked in the chest than spend 45min on the quarter deck. Getting quarterdecked until you cant pass a PFTand get dropped is a lot worse than being sore for a day tops. I was picked up by the throat, tossed into stuff, hit in the face with: blue money and bible bag, M-16, hygene kit, moonbeam etc and sure it sucked, but aside from one nosebleed it wasn't anything that caused injury or pain for more than a few seconds. That's bull. I have no problem correcting my recruits without hitting them... One does not need to be physically violent to get a point across. Those who are not motivated to sort themselves out without getting punched in the head probably have no business being there anyway. I personally have no use for soldiers who are utterly blind followers and who don't think for themselves- that kind of abusive instructional style quashes the same personal characteristics that later develop into leadership ability... its not bull. I was thrown into my footlocker one day and they tried shutting it on me. hahahaha that was hilarious. another day i was picked up by my web belt at the rifle range because i didnt move fast enough to the next task while moving into the new house, so the drill hat threw me, literally like five feet to the other side of the squad bay. that was hilarious, i am doing something next thing i knew i was in the air and landing on the squad bay. not near where i was.

I can accomplish the same thing with a few harsh words and some motivational PT. Pretty much all day today, in fact, I've been on and off teaching/assisting with drill and weapons lectures, as well as inspecting troops and jacking them up for their deficiences. They tend to learn pretty well this way. I stand by what I said with regards to the dangers of unbridled aggression in a soldier- our violent tendencies are supposed to be finely controlled.

I don't want soldiers who will follow unquestioningly becuase of fear of the consequences of not doing so. I want soldiers who will follow without hesitation and react according to their training as appropriate, but still being comfortable and self confident enough with pointing out when things aren't right. The way I see it, I need my soldiers at least as much as they need me; I don't want them being afraid of me; that's not the right kind of respect to instill in intelligent people.

BARREL BREAK wrote: rednekk98 wrote: It seems outdated, but it works, as well as builds a culture that resembles a fraternity with weapons. So... Drunken assholes with firearms? Sounds great. brihard- What you're trying to accomplish isn't the same thing they are trying to do. You want intelligent troops who will make decisions, they want people who will follow orders no matter what. Tools, not people.

Different mentalities I suppose.

It's funny; these kids are always so flustered and panicky... We've got 'em preparing for a big inspection in another 45 minutes, which they will of course fail; they've been bagging it all weekend so we're gonna keep 'em busy.

By and alrge though they're good kids, and most of them will make decent soldiers once they're through all their training. In any case, the leadership and instructional thing is a cool experience.

The ASVAB is easy as hell if someone with my schoolastic ability could get a 90 on it.

My point about physical contact is that it's faster to learn. A DI will usually go right down the line and can just knock every elbow he sees sticking out back into position. If someone's obviously doesn't get it, they'll usually stop, tell them how they're jacked up and fix their position. Most recruits are just being sloppy or forgetful, so a pop in the elbow is all they need to remind them of the correct position. Explaining to every idiot would take way too much time. Again, its muscle memory. If you smack your head on an overhanging pipe every time you go into the basement, you'll eventually remember to duck.

Getting used to physical contact helps with combat skills. That's why they get on your case for plenty of things in martial arts training. If you're practicing weapons retention, you guys trying to get your weapon should really be trying to hang onto it, or you're wasting training.

If they tell you to jump onto a bridge, beat the hell out of someone with a pugil stick who's going to trying to do the same to you, you'd better not hesitate at being hit or you're going to lose. There's no way someone who's afraid of getting touched should be there, especially when job requirements can involve sticking a bayonett into somebody's skull.

I'd say I'd much rather get pushed around by a DI than get so worn out from quarterdecking I not only miss whatever training is going on, but run the risk of being too weakend to pass physical requirements, or being worn out, slow and stupid and attract more attention. I saw plenty of recruits getting dragged to medical because they got pitted or quarterdecked badly. Never saw anyone who had to go there because a DI touched them. I DI knows how to avoid harming a recruit when they touch them. A recruit might do side-straddle hops until his heart pops and never complain.

WARNING - Rude/blunt/elitist post follows.

Kristofer wrote: um, correct me if I read the last few posts wrong. But did people just say Marines arent intelligent and especially the Grunts in the Marines? I do pretty well in school if thats the case. so I dono.

All things are relative.

A conservative blogger/columnist (Steve Sailer) recently determined that the average IQ of enlisted men in the military as a whole is 105, which would put it slightly above the national average (100).  He didn't specify numbers, but concluded that the Air Force has the highest average enlisted IQ, followed by the Navy, and then Army/Marines.  So presumably the Marines are somewhere below 105.  Sailer concludes from this that the military is smarter than average folk.  Take that, librals.

Assuming his numbers are correct, Sailer's conclusion is both accurate and misleading.

Let's say that grunts in the USMC have an average IQ of 103.  That makes them just a tad smarter than average.  But here's the rub:  "Average" means you count EVERYBODY, including the retards in the home and the drooling idiot who is barely smarter than your pet rabbit. 

To the kind of people that sit around on internet forums debating the intelligence of Marine grunts, "average" is abysmally stupid.  The average IQ for college grads usually hovers around 115, which is a world apart from "average".  I would wager that the average IQ on any internet forum - even this one - is significantly higher than "average", and significantly higher than the USMC average.

When somebody tells me "average IQ", I hear "stupid".  I know that this is incorrect, statistically speaking for the entire population, but I don't care.  For MY population of people that I actually associate with, an IQ of 100 is in fact quite stupid and far below average.

Are there smart enlisted men in the military?  Certainly - I know several myself.  But practically speaking, on the average, enlisted men just aren't that bright.