*real pics*Gauss (electromagnetic) pb gun
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Tippmann Paintball
Forum Name: Marker Gallery
Forum Description: Show us your guns!
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=165129
Printed Date: 06 July 2025 at 8:47pm
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Topic: *real pics*Gauss (electromagnetic) pb gun
Posted By: WGP guy2
Subject: *real pics*Gauss (electromagnetic) pb gun
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 6:25pm
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So, I have developed what is probably the first Gaussian Paintball gun. It is in the early stages, but is coming along quite nicely. I currently have a mess of wires, two circuit boards I made, a switch assembly, a barrel, and a capacitor bank. It works, its just in a big mess right now. This is basically how it works:
This is basically the simplified process. It is greatly efficient because it takes 10-15 seconds for the capacitors to recharge (using 2 9v batteries). Keep in mind this is a high voltage device, 10,000 volts (although low amps) isn't something to play with, I have shocked myself thrice with it, it didn't burn me or hurt me, just a very nasty bite. I hope to eventually make this into a gun i could take with me to the field, it would be a great new concept. Here is a diagram of what an assembled (and decluttered) gun will look like. I can post pictures of my working one later tonight if enough people want it. Let me label the parts.
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Replies:
Posted By: DsXz
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 6:36pm
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1 ball every 10 seconds, hmmmm ------------- http://imageshack.us"> 
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Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 6:39pm
Right, thats just right now. I will eventually attempt to make it more efficient (lighter bolt, meaning it needs less power), and maybe even add a second capacitor bank and second charging board, meaning I will be able to shoot 2 balls every 10 seconds :). The thing isn't meant to be perfect, how do you think the first air pb gun ever made worked? (I'm talking first, not first production). Also, I forgot to mention that a big advantage of it is that it makes no noise except for the bolt moving in the barrel. |
DsXz wrote:Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 6:42pm
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Very interesting...
/me wonders how long until this idea is stolen and patented. |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 6:46pm
Yea, I thought about that. I figured someone would have thought about making this type of gun some time before, but I doubt it would sell well. Gauss and Coil guns are known for being atrociously inefficient, and this type of thing will burn through 2 9vs in probably 500 balls. I have been thinking about doing the poor man's patent when I draw an actual design. EDIT: Also, what parent will let their kids have something that if they screw around with, could put 10,000 volts though them. I would assume a "Danger, High Voltage" sign would have to be put on it, and since most parents don't know much about electricity they will avoid it. |
Posted By: johnson1456
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 6:48pm
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way to think outside the box. you would be great at my job fixing electronics on planes ------------- Johnson 
x7: flatline, "T" dot scope, folding vertical handle...still in work |
Posted By: lilsully4
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 6:53pm
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Pretty sick, how far would it shoot though withough breaking the ball from the shock of the bolt?
and how many amps does it take to kill you? like 1.9 or something? ------------- 
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Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 6:55pm
There you go, the one problem I have. Keeping the ball from breaking from the force of the bolt accelerating. I think a solution might be found in a soft ended bolt, but I haven't gotten that far yet. Also, like I said, I've been shocked three times by the 10k volts (through my fingers), and I'm not dead. |
Posted By: hybrid-sniper
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 6:56pm
100 milliamps will stop your heart. |
Posted By: DsXz
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 7:01pm
ive been zapped a few times on 15+20 amp circuits at work numerous times, but yea it only takes a few miliamps to kill you. i told this 1 guy i was immune to electricity and grabbed the black wire on an outlet n he was like omg!! haha (nothin will happen as long as your not grounded) ------------- http://imageshack.us">
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Posted By: hybrid-sniper
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 7:06pm
| 100 milliamps across the heart will kill you, I should say. |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 7:08pm
| DsXz, I hope you realize that usually the negative (cathode) has the black wire. And then I hope you also realize that electrons flow from the negative to the positive. |
Posted By: DsXz
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 7:13pm
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black = hot, white = neutral in my case, sry, the only time you put power to white is when running a switch leg from the light to the switch when the feed is in the light or 3 way/4way or something similar, and in that case the wire must be recolored ------------- http://imageshack.us">
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Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 7:28pm
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Do you know how long it will take for the bolt to reach maximum velosity? I'd imagine that your initial velocity will be low enough not to break the balls, since you do have them loading directly in front of the bolt. A soft face would help and work nicely, however. Also, if you put a groove about 3/4 up the main bolt part - the part where the foward shaft end connects to - you could position the front bolt stop further up requiring a shorter shaft where the rear stopper connects to - less reciprocating(sp.) mass and less power needed. For clarification - the front stop would be gliding into the front bolt area on its way back, but the grove it fits into would end with about 1/4 of the material left before the ball pushing surface. ------------- 
http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=172327 - Forum XBL Gamertag Collection |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 10:16pm
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So here is a pic I took of my actual device: |
Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 10:28pm
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How fast have you gotten a ball to go? How did the Evolt work? EDIT: Nevermind, the evolt compressed air, then forced it down the barrel. I suppose this would be the first gauss paintball gun. |
Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 10:30pm
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I want to see it working. So is the bolt basically in the barrel? |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 10:35pm
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I'd think you'd get pretty nasty recoil with a reciprocating mass being used to bring the ball up to speed rather than a propellant. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 10:37pm
| OMG protein stain on the sheet. EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 12 March 2007 at 10:50pm
Yes thats correct. I will try to get a video of it working tommorow afternoon.
Ahem, its from spilling gatorade.... EDIT: oh, the white stuff, no clue what that is I hadn't noticed it before looking at the pic. |
Posted By: kurieitaa
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 12:07am
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kool idea, it dosent have to be safe.....just slap some warning lables and it will pass safty lol ------------- 
[ http://kurieitaa.googlepages.com - My Web Site }-{ http://kurieitaa.googlepages.com/cpbg - My Paintball Guns ] |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 12:08am
where the hell did you go to school? ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: TippmannBro
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 12:59am
Actually, with 40 capacitors, 10,000 volts is a very legit number for the voltage going through that system. It just takes a while for those capacitors to charge with only 18 volts as the power supply. Cool design. That would be a freaking awesome physics/engineering project. I bet you could get a scholarship from some big paintball gun manufacturer for that (if they don't steal the idea and patent it from you first). ------------- WAR EAGLE!!! |
Posted By: Strandimal
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 2:31am
| Innovative work. I'm looking forward to seeing the results. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 5:05am
do you even know what voltage is? voltage dosn't flow, the statement dosnt even make sense.... ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 5:12am
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reading this topic is scary, some ppl have no idea how electricity works. you cant get electricuted by 20 amps, thats mearly the current flowing through a certain junction, you infact could have any where from 1V-1000V across your hand and where you are grounded to, that infact would have produced a current flowing through you, not even close to a fraction of 20 amps as for 10k volt circuits shocking you, thats a total load, 600V will cause your muscles to freeze, and higher will cause seriuse damage to your body. (this changes for differnt ppls skin resistance) theres a bunch more, but im just going to stop. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 6:38am
Yea but you have to remember when explaning things that you aren't on an electric/electronic forum, and you need to keep it simple. What did you want me to saw, the electromotive force was 10,000 volts? And yes, it is 10,000 volts. It is 40 250v, .1 micro farad capacitors. When I shocked myself it was on the tip of my finger. I had problems with the wires on the switches moving and completing the circuit, so I didn't know it was charged (thought it was dead) until I got shocked. EDIT: I'm not saying 10,000 volts ran threw me finger. If I can find my multimeter I will tell calculate the resistance of the coil, and be able to tell you how many amps and volts I got. |
Posted By: Black_Shadow
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 9:48am
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well you obviously didnt get more than 6 milli-amps since you seem to
be alive, well and generally alive. since 7 milli-amps at the heart is
fatal. voltage doesnt do anything to you, amperage does. this is because voltage is the electronic version of pressure, voltage forces the amperage through the wires. amperage is what flows. if you truely have 10,000 volts of electricity charing off 2 9v then your amperage is almost nothing, so your in no danger in my books. EDIT: also, remeber than childhood game where you drag your socks across the carpet and shock your sibling, well that little bit of static electricity is approximatly 40,000 volts, but is amerpage is too low to measure with even the most precise instruments. ------------- 98CP ACT R/T J&J Ceramic 14" Egg II w Z-Board GTA Inline X-Chamber NCStar Red-Dot Pen Spring Mod Trigger Stops Polished Internals Dye Sticky Grip 20oz Co2 w On/Off Next Up: Spimmy |
Posted By: Thatoneguy123
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 1:53pm
| Put some of them fuel cells or w/e they are in hybrid cars in that thing. :O |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 2:07pm
electromotive force isnt measured in volts either and ya i was thinking, about the 10KV being to dangerous, its not really, i mean comp air tanks have 3K pressure, bassicly a bomb, as long as the danger is contained and for that other post that said "since the batterys cant supply enough current, you wont get hurt" well you gotta remember, its the capacitors supply the current, not the batterys, and even tho those capictors discharge very fast, the peak current, can be very high. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 2:56pm
Wrooooong..... I was told it was measure in volts in my Digital Electronics class. I also looked it up on wikipedia and dictionary.com.  electromotive force –noun Electricity. the energy available for conversion from nonelectric to electric form, or vice versa, per unit of charge passing through the source of the energy; the potential difference between the terminals of a source of electrical energy: expressed in volts. Abbreviation: emf |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 3:02pm
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thats volts
no idea what this is ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 3:07pm
Right, and also electromotive force. Therefore electromotive force = volts... |
Posted By: Justice
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 3:19pm
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Current kills! Anyways. Great idea, how do you adjust fps? ------------- 
-JUSTICE http://www.myspace.com/outkastpaintball - Outkast Myspace |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 3:33pm
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lol, ya ya ya :-P ok, so im going to try and help with this idea, I might actully try making something similiar to it for an engineering project.
(these next question are mostly to help me, not you) ok, so you got 10K V across the coil? ok, and whats the capicitors? you gotta make sure they dont discharge complety before the bolt has hit the end. (ill dig up the equation) how many coils you got? and this is basicly the circuit? you charge the capictors, and when you break the circuit they discharge through the coil? so do you have a single trigger pull, break the connection to the source but connect the circuit to the coil? ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 3:40pm
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Ticktock-ticktock. What you have just done is "publish" your design/invention. Under US and Canadian patent law, you have 12 months from date of "publication" to file a patent application. If you don't file within that time, your invention is public domain and nobody (including you) can patent it. In the EU and most of the rest of the world, you have already waived your right to patent this by publishing here. Of course, any element of your invention that was not published is still eligible for patenting. |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 5:11pm
Ah, but I have not revealed the exact workings of it. I haven't given schematics of the circuit, I haven't posted detailed drawings of how it work work. The gif simply shows how gaussian principles could apply to a paintball gun. If that gif is enough to count as publishing, then it will have already been published many years (decades?) before I was born. Do I have to actually build the thing before I patent it? If not I'll just build a model of it at school and print the schematics! I remember talking about patents in my engineering classes, but I'll go ahead and look more into it.
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 5:26pm
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Figuring that out is why patent lawyers get paid the extra-big bucks. It quickly gets very technical, but simply "apply Gaussian principles to paintball" could be a patentable design. Remember, Smart Parts basically patented "contact switch + paintball", and WDP basically patented "LCD screen + paintball". I don't know how much specificity you would need to patent this particular design.
No. You don't even need a model. Schematics will suffice. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 8:26pm
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sorry man, your really smart and all, but it drives me nuts every time i see , "volts flow" lol, must be a pet peave ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: nathanours
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 9:29pm
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how heavy is it? or how heavy will it be in gun form? ------------- 
sorry if this offends any one but it is funny Tippman 98c w/ J&J ceramic barrel polished internals expansion chamber |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 10:01pm
Right now its about a pound with everything. I expect with balls, a body, frame, and anything else I add it will be 2-3 pounds. Also just to make a note I made a 3D model of it today. I modified it with a few suggestions here and figure out a way to return the bolt without the charging coil. I think someone asked how velocity will be regulated. Keep in mind that it isn't affected by weather (especially if metal isn't used for the bolt), so once its set its set. But I could potentially use switches to turn off sets of capacitors for large changes, and then a potentiometer for small changes. To answer Frog man's question about how long the capcitors take to fully discharge, I calculated that the bolt, traveling at 300fps (to move the ball that fast) will take 555.556 micro seconds for the bolt to travel its full distance. That also means that, not taking into account capacitor charge time, and assuming that the cocking time will be the same as the shooting time, the gun could theoretically cycle 899.999 times per second. This, however, is no where near plausible. The fastest fire rate ever was 16666 rounds per second (Metal Storm). |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 10:11pm
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I'd suggest going with a spring set in the receiver for the return stroke of the bolt. It doesn't need to be super stiff to give you a fast return rate at the moment due to the capacitor's charging time. The Mini, Badger, and Automag all use that system and it works well for them. Also, I'd definitely suggest getting a hold of an old AGD "foamy" for the front of the bolt to keep the ball breakage to a minimum. Also, have you thought about either using a ferro-magnetic or rare-earth magnetic core inside a delrin bolt? It would give you the same properties to accelerate the bolt down the barrel using your coil without the drag, lubrication, and recoil issues that you might experience with an all metal or all magnetic bolt. Also, I'd suggest going with an old Angel LCD NiMH rechargeable battery for your power source as you can recharge it and get a decent amount of shots out of it before needing to re-charge. It's long, thin, tubular design would also allow you to mount it below the receiver saving you some room up front where you'd normally put the 9v batteries. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 10:47pm
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Wow, I cant believe there was an argument over voltage and amperage lasting a whole page. But to add my two cents. Enough voltage for long enough over the right part of the body will kill. No matter what the amperage. Instead of stopping the muscle, it will fry the crap out of it. And I wouldnt bother arguing that. Because I got a 98% in my college electricity class. Also. If you had some potentiometers or variable resisters, you can change how much voltage/amperage is going to the wires causing a slower/higher fps. Dont worry about the patents and stuff. To be honest this is a highschool science project. So anyone can do it. But it is a very interesting idea. Im anxious to see how it all turns out. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 12:35am
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a variable resisitor (or potentionmeter sp) in series with the coil should be able to adjust velocity
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Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 12:37am
i can see thats a very cereal class, lol  "what do you got next bob?" "Electricity" "Dam thats a hard one" ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 12:42am
Its actually a very difficult class. The only reason I didnt go into Electricity 2 was because I decided to go into Nuke med instead of Nuke power. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 12:48am
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i still cant belive there a class called electricity, its funny
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 1:32am
Great, monk's going into nuke med? Goiaina part deux anyone? 
All joking aside, are they still using Caesium (Cesium) 137 for the gamma source in radiation therapy these days Monk? The history of Nuclear medicine is scary at best. If you research the lost artifact from the Piscataway incident, most of the early nuke med practiced was just guess-work. A bit of "lets just shove some radium up your nose for a minute..... and that should do it... I think..." or, if you look even earlier to the old days of "Drink Radium water! It'll make you strong and keep your bones healthy!" The sheer amount of quackery in nuclear medicine's history is astounding. Sorry for the derailment, but it's a subject that's interested me for years. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 1:34am
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The actual name is Into to Electricity and Theory. So stop being a pompus prick. --- frogman Well to be quite honest, most of the nuke med is still guesses. They still use cesium, but they are working mostly with iodines and flat out radiation. They are now using radioactive pellets that can be injected straight into the cancer spot. Which greatly reduces the "colateral damage" if you will. lol, but as far a radon/radium is concerned, yeah, they learned their lesson. So back to the topic, I want vids. |
Posted By: mamasboi
Date Posted: 15 March 2007 at 2:07am
| i wanna see a working gun model it seem like a great idea |