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Exit Plan- Withdrawal

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Topic: Exit Plan- Withdrawal
Posted By: oldsoldier
Subject: Exit Plan- Withdrawal
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 9:55pm
Well the Democrats got thier wish, leave the game 2 minutes before the end, leave the other team on the field, and wonder why later that they lost the game....bright move. And the next game will be a "home game" rest assured.

Now its time to end the another unpopular war, we now need to withdraw from the War on Poverty, been waged on our streets since President Johnson declared war on it in 1964. The families destroyed, the social values destroyed, all the financial waste (public housing,welfare,etc) all attempts totally ineffective in combating this enemy, which is growing no matter how much money we throw at it, so lets be consistant, withdraw from the conflict, and let those affected by poverty fight it out among themselves.

Just a little tidbit of tax trivia: the "poor" recieve an average of $8.12 in Federal benifits for each $1.00 they pay in taxes, the "rich" (those making $100,000 or more) recieve approximately $.41 in return for each $1.00 payed in taxes...a little redistribution of wealth, and it has accomplished?

another boring night in an Oak Grove,KY truckstop........

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Replies:
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:00pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Well the Democrats got thier wish, leave the game 2 minutes before the end, leave the other team on the field, and wonder why later that they lost the game....bright move. And the next game will be a "home game" rest assured.

2 minutes before the end? The end of the war is that close? Your powers of perception amaze me.

Once again, the "lets fight them there before we fight them here" mentality has got you to thinking that the next war will be on our soil.



Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:00pm
Right, because we were "two minutes" from solving the problem in Iraq.

If it were not for those damned Democrats and their withdrawal plans, Iraq would be a happy magic wonderland in a few weeks after September.

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

And the next game will be a "home game" rest assured.


Hahahahaha.



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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:00pm

2 minutes before the end?

Probably true - the insurgents are in their last throes, after all.



Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:01pm
lol


Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

lol
Quoted for posterity.

Anyway, OS, how is the war almost done?


Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:38pm
Honestly. None of you have any idea how close we actually could be. The guys I talk to just returning say just give it more time. a year or so and things will change dramatically. Good things are happening we just dont hear about it.


Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:43pm
We've been hearing "give it more time" for 4 years now.


Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:48pm
Lame.

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<Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules>


Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:48pm
In one more year everything will be like Disney. Rides and all. 

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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 11:07pm
I guess maybe if you don't count insurgents, taking time to set the country on their feet, or even securing a decisive "win," maybe then you could say it was close to over...


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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 11:45pm
"Whoop, democracy just kicked in!"


OS, do you seriously beleive the crap you write, or is it some odd form of trolling?


Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 12:20am
Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

could


Not a word to base a strategy/risk people's lives on.


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Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 12:57am
This is definatly a big win for the power of democracy.

But is it the right move?

Personally, I dont believe so.

You cant reason with terrorists, let alone terrorists who's soul belief system is based on killing those who are not in their religion.

I would rather the fight be on foriegn soil, than my own backyard.

Do I also feel like a hypocrite for saying these things, but not actually joining the military to fight for what I believe to be true. Yes, yes I do.
But no doubt if this were to escalate I would be on the first ride over to do my part.

Do I also see and immenent WW3. Yes.


Posted By: ANARCHY_SCOUT
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 1:11am
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

In one more year everything will be like Disney. Rides and all. 
minus the safety harness. But I though of something dirty when I read the title of the thread.

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Gamertag: Kataklysm999


Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 1:28am
Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:


I would rather the fight be on foriegn soil, than my own backyard.




That is a silly jingle.

I was not aware that Iraqi insurgents, whose whole purpose of existence is to get rid of our soldiers in Iraq, were planning on making a road trip anytime soon.


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Posted By: Ken Majors
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 1:43am
Why would they need to take a road trip?

They are already here.

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RLTW


Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 11:31am

Originally posted by Ken Majors Ken Majors wrote:

Why would they need to take a road trip?

They are already here.

DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN



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Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:


I would rather the fight be on foriegn soil, than my own backyard.




That is a silly jingle.

I was not aware that Iraqi insurgents, whose whole purpose of existence is to get rid of our soldiers in Iraq, were planning on making a road trip anytime soon.


Gee, maybe they could fly another plane into a large building. Would that remind you of anything?


Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 3:14pm
Iraqi insurgents were involved in 9/11? 


Posted By: welcome guest
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 3:39pm

I hope we leave the iraq's a going away present. A all out air, water, and land strike. We must stop given them the wrong idea that the USA is weak.

 



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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml - http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.


Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by welcome guest welcome guest wrote:

I hope we leave the iraq's a going away present. A all out air, water, and land strike. We must stop given them the wrong idea that the USA is weak.

 

Yes, because that is the right thing to do.



Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by welcome guest welcome guest wrote:

I hope we leave the iraq's a going away present. A all out air, water, and land strike. We must stop given them the wrong idea that the USA is weak.

 



Someone has to say it, so I will.

You're an idiot.


-------------
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:01pm
Over 60 dead today in an attack in Iraq....I can smell the progress.


Posted By: welcome guest
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:08pm

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:


Someone has to say it, so I will.

You're an idiot.

How to Select a Gift for Your Host

While guests are never obligated to bring anything to a party other than themselves, offering a simple gift to the host is a thoughtful gesture.

Instructions

  • STEP 1: Reflect upon your host's decorating scheme if you have been to his or her country. Purchase a small trinket, vase or candy bowl that matches the decor.
  • STEP 2: Choose a gift that will not interfere with your host's pre-planned menu. Avoid, for instance, a box of cannoli or a freshly baked coconut pie.
  • STEP 3: Consider offering a small plant or flower arrangement. A small potted plant is often preferable to freshly cut flowers, which require the host to search for a vase and to spend time on the arrangement.
  • STEP 4: Pick out a box of decadent gourmet chocolates or a unique bottle of wine.
  • STEP 5: Make your own infused olive oil or vinegar and bottle it for your host. Stuff a decorative bottle with herbs (dill, parsley, garlic) or fruits (cranberries, raspberries, blackberries). Fill the bottle to the top with olive oil or white vinegar, screw a pour spout on top and voila!
  • STEP 6: Buy an aromatherapy candle with a simple candleholder, or a bag of potpourri to spread heavenly scents throughout your host's home.

Tips & Warnings

  • Avoid spending an exorbitant amount of money, which will inevitably cause your host to feel guilty.
  • Wrap your gift in simple tissue paper or decorated butcher paper. Present wine with a bow around the neck; wrap the bottom of a flowerpot in colored cellophane paper.


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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml - http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.


Posted By: Styro Folme
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:12pm
there is no reason we need to be in iraq.  end of story.

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X


Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:31pm
OS, you're a jackass...I hate so much that people compare me to you...

Anyway, I don't know what the big deal is. The most this has accomplished is letting the W know that the Congress really does want this thing over with, not that he didn't already know that....This thing is going to have about as much teeth as the non-binding resolution crap they tried to pass, unless they can pull off a miracle in the Senate and overturn the unavoidable veto....The current administration's head is way too far up their own asses to even think about letting any kind of progress happen here, besides any short term gains they might be able to point out as a result of their wonderful little surge. This war wont end until someone else is sitting in the oval office.

But meh, I didn't like this bill anyway...too much pork and it left out some big stuff like properly-armored-vehicle funding and mandates. 'Course, I'm sure that was just the effect of pushing the thing through....

Oh and Kris, I have the highest respect for you folks in the military, seriously, but it really annoys me when people that just came back from the frontline over there, like the ones you mentioned, act like they know everything there is to know about everything that has to do with the war just because they were stationed there, and that we know nothing because we weren't. If anything, I'd say that a lot of the soldiers over there are probably less informed as to what's going on than those of us over here that actually try to pay attention, at least those who weren't working intelligence or in high up commanding positions, just for the fact that they were there doing their little part of the job and probably didn't have the time or will to really step back and look at the whole picture....


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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

Oh and Kris, I have the highest respect for you folks in the military, seriously, but it really annoys me when people that just came back from the frontline over there, like the ones you mentioned, act like they know everything there is to know about everything that has to do with the war just because they were stationed there, and that we know nothing because we weren't. If anything, I'd say that a lot of the soldiers over there are probably less informed as to what's going on than those of us over here that actually try to pay attention, at least those who weren't working intelligence or in high up commanding positions, just for the fact that they were there doing their little part of the job and probably didn't have the time or will to really step back and look at the whole picture....


Interesting and truthful perspective- sometimes you must focus on the trees, and not pay attention to the forest as a whole... Particularly when those trees are at risk of falling on your head.


-------------
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:38pm
.Ryan....again the tried and true "name calling" of the left in lieu of rational thought. The war is not over, you are in school, open mind, read Management of Savagery, their playbook and version of the future, and tell me that this confict has no bearing on thier world goals.

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Management_of_Savagery.pdf - http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Management_of_Savagery.pdf

and I know the power of the veto pen.

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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:39pm

[QUOTE=oldsoldier].Ryan....again the tried and true "name calling" of the left in lieu of rational thought. The war is not over, you are in school, open mind, read Management of Savagery, their playbook and version of the future, and tell me that this confict has no bearing on thier world goals.

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Management_of_Savagery.pdf/QUOTE - http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Management_of_Savagery.pdf[/QUOTE ]

Yes...name calling only comes from the left....ever.



Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:41pm
That would be a valid way to shoot down my argument, had I been making one. I wasn't. Your idiocy had already been torn apart on the first page, so I didn't need to. I was just stating my opinion.....I will say though, name calling occurs on both sides of the isle, and if anything is almost undoubtedly more prevalent on the "right" one.

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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:42pm
When have I ever resorted to personal name calling?

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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:44pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

read Management of Savagery,
http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Management_of_Savagery.pdf - http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Management_of_Savagery.pdf

I read it.  An interesting cross between the Communist Manifesto, the Bible, and the Turner Diaries.

But I don't see the relevance here.



Posted By: Ken Majors
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Over 60 dead today in an attack in Iraq....I can smell the progress.


An average of 117 people die every day in the US from car crashes.


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RLTW


Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

When have I ever resorted to personal name calling?


Oh if only I had the motivation to go make I giant list of quotes....meh...I'm not that bored right now...


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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:46pm

Originally posted by Ken Majors Ken Majors wrote:


An average of 117 people die every day in the US from car crashes.

True - as many die on the road every month as died on 9/11.  Clearly we shouldn't make such a big deal of 9/11.



Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:46pm
We need to pull out our people from the automobile, too many die in these evil polution machines, and we are losing our war on global warming, so lets pull out quickly to lesson the daily losses on our highways, and to ensure a cleaner enviornment in the future.

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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:48pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

When have I ever resorted to personal name calling?

That's your out - "personal".  You are correct - you don't call specific people by specific names.

You do, however, routinely engage in "syllogistic name-calling":

P1  All Librals are [bad thing]

P2  You are a Libral

Conclusion (unstated but implied)

It's a bit disingenuous to claim you don't namecall.



Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:50pm
Yep, and comparing Iraq and Our Nation's Highways is just asinine...

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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:52pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

We need to pull out our people from the automobile, too many die in these evil polution machines, and we are losing our war on global warming, so lets pull out quickly to lesson the daily losses on our highways, and to ensure a cleaner enviornment in the future.

I know you are trying to be sarcastic, but ironically you are correct - in a way.

One could argue that our effort and money would be better spent on automobile safety than on wars.  Take the budget for the Iraq war, pour it into automobile R&D, check back in 10-15 years...  who knows?



Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Ken Majors Ken Majors wrote:


An average of 117 people die every day in the US from car crashes.

True - as many die on the road every month as died on 9/11.  Clearly we shouldn't make such a big deal of 9/11.

I'm gonna get flamed for this one, but I actually agree with that statement. We've milked 9/11 for all it's worth in this country...I remember watching the little skirmish that Israel had last year on TV, and they interviewed an old man eating at a cafe. He's sitting there eating his breakfast, and incoming rockets are exploding in the street. He doesn't even stop eating...they asked him why, he says, "This is life for us. Nothing new."

America is entirely too pampered. Terrorism and tyranny have been claiming lives since the existence of civilization, and suddenly we're going to wipe the whole thing out based on a single attack on American soil.

Not saying we shouldn't go after terrorism, but an interesting though nonetheless.



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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:52pm
Being a left leaning college type has allways, ok recently been asinine......you'll only understand in about 20-30 years.

works both ways there troop

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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:53pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Being a left leaning college type has allways, ok recently been asinine......you'll only understand in about 20-30 years.

works both ways there troop

Yet there are liberals older than you, OS.  How is that possible?



Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:56pm
And there are still Communists, National Socialists, Utopians, Nirvannians, etc...... older than me....doesn't make thier positions that less idiotic.

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Posted By: Ken Majors
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:


Originally posted by Ken Majors Ken Majors wrote:

An average of 117 people die every day in the US from car crashes.


True - as many die on the road every month as died on 9/11.  Clearly we shouldn't make such a big deal of 9/11.



I'm gonna get flamed for this one, but I actually agree with that statement. We've milked 9/11 for all it's worth in this country...I remember watching the little skirmish that Israel had last year on TV, and they interviewed an old man eating at a cafe. He's sitting there eating his breakfast, and incoming rockets are exploding in the street. He doesn't even stop eating...they asked him why, he says, "This is life for us. Nothing new."


America is entirely too pampered. Terrorism and tyranny have been claiming lives since the existence of civilization, and suddenly we're going to wipe the whole thing out based on a single attack on American soil.


Not saying we shouldn't go after terrorism, but an interesting though nonetheless.



That is what I was saying...sort of.
We get all fired up about our troops dying in a foreign land and how much it is costing us.
When someone dies on the highway, and pretty much every person knows at least one person that has died in a motor vehicle crash, it is no big deal.
It is almost expected. They should define death by vehicle as "natural causes" because it happens so frequently.
I could have compared it to heart disease, cancer, or even Asthma. More people have died from asthma since the war began, than have died in the war.
Is that asinine enough for you?

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RLTW


Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:01pm

Originally posted by Ken Majors Ken Majors wrote:

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Over 60 dead today in an attack in Iraq....I can smell the progress.


An average of 117 people die every day in the US from car crashes.

Once again...not a valid point because it refutes an argument that wasn't made in the first place.

I was pointing out that these claims of being close to the end of the war are ridiculous. I was not comparing numbers for any reason.

We should put more emphasis on other killers, diseases for one. But that has nothing to do with claims of leaps and bounds of progress in Iraq with daily death tolls.



Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

And there are still Communists, National Socialists, Utopians, Nirvannians, etc...... older than me....doesn't make thier positions that less idiotic.
Oh I get it. Only smart people are conservative. That doesn't explain why many professors and educated people are left leaning..


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irc.esper.net
#paintball


Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:09pm
I'd venture to venture that most of them are left leaning...

Oh and OS, age =/= intelligence, wisdom, or correctness....


ps
  Clark, I love how you're turning all of this stuff around on him....classic...


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Posted By: Ken Majors
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Originally posted by Ken Majors Ken Majors wrote:

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Over 60 dead today in an attack in Iraq....I can smell the progress.
An average of 117 people die every day in the US from car crashes.


Once again...not a valid point because it refutes an argument that wasn't made in the first place.


I was pointing out that these claims of being close to the end of the war are ridiculous. I was not comparing numbers for any reason.


We should put more emphasis on other killers, diseases for one. But that has nothing to do with claims of leaps and bounds of progress in Iraq with daily death tolls.



Agreed.

I think even publishing daily death tolls is counter-productive.
It is depressing, doesn't help in anyway, and it effects the morale of the troop as well as the public.
You would have thought that we learned that lesson from Vietnam.
It seems that we don't learn from our history...which means we are destined to repeat it.

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RLTW


Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:12pm
The reason proffesors are left leaning is to ensure the "dumbing down" of education, to make you more dependant on the lefts system. I did a "tour" in college recently, pretty frightening the level of indoctronation over education.

One of the reasons I'm back out here making $60,000 plus, because I have no desire to be one of the "educated" elite?

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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:16pm
So, it's a conspiracy? 

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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:16pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The reason proffesors are left leaning is to ensure the "dumbing down" of education, to make you more dependant on the lefts system. I did a "tour" in college recently, pretty frightening the level of indoctronation over education.

One of the reasons I'm back out here making $60,000 plus, because I have no desire to be one of the "educated" elite?

What a conspiracy theory. Yes...only the truly intelligent are conservative. That is the scariest thing I've ever heard someone say..and actually believe it themselves.

Come on .Ryan, if you don't go to college you are actually truly intelligent.



Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The reason proffesors are left leaning is to ensure the "dumbing down" of education, to make you more dependant on the lefts system. I did a "tour" in college recently, pretty frightening the level of indoctronation over education.

One of the reasons I'm back out here making $60,000 plus, because I have no desire to be one of the "educated" elite?
What the hell are you talking about? I'm pretty sure that education is becoming more and more demanding as time goes on instead of easier. Just because you were in a few BS classes doesn't mean that it's all like that. I see very little 'indoctrination' in my classes.

Way too overgeneralize. I really don't like to enter these debates, but you're making some pretty outrageous claims here.


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irc.esper.net
#paintball


Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:18pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The reason proffesors are left leaning is to ensure the "dumbing down" of education, to make you more dependant on the lefts system. I did a "tour" in college recently, pretty frightening the level of indoctronation over education.

One of the reasons I'm back out here making $60,000 plus, because I have no desire to be one of the "educated" elite?

You really outdid yourself there, OS.

I will show this post to my grandchildren to frighten them.



Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:20pm
Also, it seems that the old statistic where More Education = Higher Earnings in Life, is a myth....my god...I really hope that OS is just screwing with us here....

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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:24pm
Required Socialolgy, Diversity, Philosophy as well as my math and langauges (tested out of German and Spanish, close on French)for my attempted major. The classes were more what the proffesor wanted to see as the new world compared to developing an understanding and openness in order for the student to understand the world around them.
You quote the current thought points of the day, A, you debate a point, C or less, great way to "teach".

And yes in the UN Lincoln there was a definate predudice against anyone who wears or wore the uniform of this nation. And little was done to hide the fact we were not wanted in thier classrooms.

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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:27pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Required Socialolgy, Diversity, Philosophy as well as my math and langauges (tested out of German and Spanish, close on French)for my attempted major. The classes were more what the proffesor wanted to see as the new world compared to developing an understanding and openness in order for the student to understand the world around them.
You quote the current thought points of the day, A, you debate a point, C or less, great way to "teach".

And yes in the UN Lincoln there was a definate predudice against anyone who wears or wore the uniform of this nation. And little was done to hide the fact we were not wanted in thier classrooms.

I'm a liberal atheist living in Ohio...boohoo.



Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:29pm
I got your pm OS, I've been in college for almost 2 years now, I know how it is.

I am also a bit relieved by what you said about the pot.

Will say though, if you act like this in class I'm not surprised you got that reception. Also, I've been in class with a few military guys, they seem to act like they know it all, like you do. So again, not surprised....

edit: Same here Dune.


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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:


edit: Same here Dune.
Same here.


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irc.esper.net
#paintball


Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Required Socialolgy, Diversity, Philosophy as well as my math and langauges (tested out of German and Spanish, close on French)for my attempted major. The classes were more what the proffesor wanted to see as the new world compared to developing an understanding and openness in order for the student to understand the world around them.
You quote the current thought points of the day, A, you debate a point, C or less, great way to "teach".

And yes in the UN Lincoln there was a definate predudice against anyone who wears or wore the uniform of this nation. And little was done to hide the fact we were not wanted in thier classrooms.


Ever think you are just so ridiculously conservative that you just aim to piss yourself off when someone shows the slightest inkling of liberalism or anything non "right"?


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Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Iraqi insurgents were involved in 9/11? 


Insurgents are terrorists. To specifically focus on just Al-Qaida is just plain stupid.

Plus. Left and Right believe we should use our country's power to help smaller nations, and the oppression of their people.

So we take out a dictator that is a terror to his own people, who might I add had WMD's with the ability to even take out some of the US.

But now that we have taken out the leader, the left wants us out. That will do no good until the Iraqi people are able to take care of themselves. Once we leave, the insurgents/terrorists will take over again. And in a few years, they may have to balls again to attack our soil. Then we are back to where we started from.

Each side has morons. Each side has people way too far right, and way too far left.

What we need right now is something the entire country can band around. The country should want to pull out, but now until its time.


Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:45pm

Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Iraqi insurgents were involved in 9/11? 




So we take out a dictator that is a terror to his own people, who might I add had WMD's with the ability to even take out some of the US.

Really? Wow, I'd like to see some of those ICBM's. I can't believe news like that slipped past the rest of the population.



Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:55pm
Dune...we need to look at Janes Defense Weekly on chemical munitions delivery systems, from suitcase sprayers designed by the old Soviet Union, to yes ICBM's.
WMD's are Chemical, Biological, as well as Nuclear, and you would prefere to die Nuclear to any of the others.

A thermos bottle of VX Nerve Binary Gas mixed and then opened on a NYC subway system station will kill in nexcess of 100,000 quickly and in a pretty gruesome manner and contaminate the area for weeks.

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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:57pm

And has anybody ever claimed that Saddam had VX gas?  No?

Then we might as well be talking ICBMs.



Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 5:57pm

I'm glad to see we solved the problem then with the invasion of Iraq. We got the one country that had those capabilities and spread freedom to all.



Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:00pm

One, but one of the most dangerous to our freedom, and the freedom of the surrounding countries. No to mention the elections held in Afganistan. A huge step towards world peace.

"We have found javascript%20siteSearch%27weapons%20of%20mass%20destruction%27; - weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon.

Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."

He had them, but there was no way to tell if they were still of a highly lethal grade. Also their are reports of him trying to get his laboratories set back up to continue producing weapons. And reports of him trying to start Uranium enrichment.



Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:01pm
And get yellow cake? Yeah, we've heard this before.


Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:02pm

Monk - are you kidding me?

Seriously - please tell me you are kidding.



Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:02pm
He did in 82 vs Iran, he did in 89 against the Kurds, he did in 91, we found old undocumented stocks as recently as 2004, yes he did have VX, VN, Sarin, Mustard, Tauben(sp?, a real nasty blister agent, you drown in your own fluid in your lungs, and quickly, our mask filters were ineffective till redesigned post Gulf War I.) Also some weapons grade Anthrax base......

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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:05pm
Wow, we found some old rusted out buildings with some left-over gas, that sure is an imminent threat to national security. Especially since they had no real reason to attack us, and nothing to gain from it.


Posted By: Jack Carver
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Monk - are you kidding me?

Seriously - please tell me you are kidding.

Maybe you should post some useful information linking to articles that prove him wrong instead of assuming that your reputation automatically proves you right about everything.


Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:08pm
Unless you are the target of some radical armed with a coffee cup full of this stuff and you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like the WTC people feared an airliner, a radical obtaining chemical munitions is more practical than another airliner.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/congress/house1.htm - http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/congress/house1.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2004/isg-final-report/isg-final-report_vol3_cw-anx-f.htm - http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2004/isg-fi nal-report/isg-final-report_vol3_cw-anx-f.htm

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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by Jack Carver Jack Carver wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Monk - are you kidding me?

Seriously - please tell me you are kidding.

Maybe you should post some useful information linking to articles that prove him wrong instead of assuming that your reputation automatically proves you right about everything.

Wait..what? You believe this crap? You believe what we were force fed in order to go into Iraq, only to be backed up by a couple of empty canisters and history. Germany used Mustard gas as well in their past...so is it safe to say they still have it lying around ready for use against another country?



Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:09pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

yes he did have VX, VN, Sarin, Mustard, Tauben

I stand corrected - I knew he had various gases, but did know that VX was among them.



Posted By: GThomas
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:10pm
Sunnis and shias have been killing each other for hundreds of years. Perhaps ruling with an iron fist and using strict laws like Saddam did was the only way to keep these two warring factions in check. We go in and remove the only controling factor that was keeping these people from killing each other and all hell breaks loose. With the way things have been going I doubt keeping our troops there for another year will do anything. I do think Civil war will break out when we leave. But staying for another year will just postpone the innevitable for a year and get more Americans killed in the process. I do think the pull out is necissary; I believe this war was lost a long time ago. Maybe I'll elaborate more later when I have more time.

oh yeah, I share both conservative and liberal veiws, but I lean torwards the left. It might surprise you that I'm contracted Army ROTC.


Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:10pm
oldsoldier- What you are talking about is single person, acting alone, or a small group, not a nation state. The fall of Saddam's regime has done only one thing about the situation you propose; To make it easier for radicals to obtain those chemicals.

We can look to the fall of the Soviet Union, and the fallout thereafter with militant factions the region over claiming old weapons. This is what happens, people make off with the weapons in the chaos.


Posted By: Jack Carver
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:11pm
I'm not saying I believe either way, but so far I haven't seen much evidence that it was just a few old containers in some rusty buildings.


Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:11pm

Originally posted by Jack Carver Jack Carver wrote:

Maybe you should post some useful information linking to articles that prove him wrong instead of assuming that your reputation automatically proves you right about everything.

Maybe these ridiculous claims have debunked and retracted so many times that bringing them up is almost flat-earthing.



Posted By: welcome guest
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:15pm

Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

javascript%20siteSearch%27weapons%20of%20mass%20destruction%27; - weapons of mass destruction He had them,

In the 1980's US companies supplied anthrax,mustard gas and botulinum under licences issued by the Reagan and Bush administrations.  

"Dr. Rihab Taha, architect of Iraq’s biological weapons program, told that Iraq once had the capability to kill everyone on Earth twice but the weapons were all destroyed in 1991, including 2,200 gallons of anthrax.  UNSCOM [United Nations Special Commission] themselves verified this matter in1991 and later in December 2002 she gave a  clean report about the amount and destruction of biological weapons to UN inspectors.   She confirmed that Iraq would never use them against the US as Iraq no longer has these weapons now".

 Yes there was WMD in Iraq USA still have the receipts!




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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml - http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.


Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 10:13pm
I cannot find anything to substantiate claims that he had VX.

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"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 10:33pm

I found some old news articles discussing VX as one of the gasses involved in 80s/90s issues.  Nothing ironclad, but enough to make a legitimate claim.

I don't believe it is seriously asserted that he had VX this time around.



Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 10:59pm
If he had it in his stocks in 91, there were some cached away somewhere this time around. The mounds of artillery shells and rocket warheads we found and counted in 92 was to ovedwhelming to believe we found and had it all. Watching those NBC troopers working around that stuff, in thier suits and masks and the fires as the chemicals were destroyed made me ensure my troops were allways upwind of any of these fire.

When we crossed the berm we were more concerned of chemicals than any other Iraqi weapon system. Yet the "cure", atropine injectors could be as bad as the cause, so we in the black comedy of soldiers stated inhale hard, and blow your brains out, would be quicker than twitching to death from humanicide.

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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

And there are still Communists, National Socialists, Utopians, Nirvannians, etc...... older than me....doesn't make thier positions that less idiotic.


Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Being a left leaning college type has allways, ok recently been asinine......you'll only understand in about 20-30 years.

works both ways there troop




Funniest thing I have read all day.


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Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 29 March 2007 at 2:48pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
A bit long, but the guys right on, and pretty appropriate for this thread.



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