Overly-patriotic rants
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Topic: Overly-patriotic rants
Posted By: Destruction
Subject: Overly-patriotic rants
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 1:15pm
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I always thought they were myths...until I saw one for myself. It was prompted by a statement that was deemed unpatriotic by the fine young American who wrote this retort. I can't link to the actual page because of extensive swearing, and I've had to clean it up slightly.
"U want to say that then GET THE [HECK] OUT OF THE COUNTRY. Go say that in Cuba or Japan, u won't live long. If u hate it so much we don't want u here. Hell Go tell a USMC member that. he'll kick u out of here. It is b/c of the countery u live in that u can even say that. I've only got one other thing to say GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" This is not shens, I promise you. edit: Oh yea.... Japan? What the hell?! ------------- u dont know what to do ur getting mottor boatted Men are from Magmar, women are from Venusaur. |
Replies:
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 1:17pm
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And what were the words said that caused this rant?
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 1:18pm
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 1:19pm
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This is not as bad as the Army recruiter one. Hold on, let me find it. Bingo http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1153 - http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1153 If these are too inappropriate for the forum, I apologize, I will gladly take them down: These are the emails sent from a recruiter to someone who admitted to being gay and said it was not fair for homosexuals to be banned from the Army.   ------------- 
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Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 1:19pm
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New depths of idiocy right there....
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Posted By: Destruction
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 1:25pm
Sparked the patriotic tirade. ------------- u dont know what to do ur getting mottor boatted Men are from Magmar, women are from Venusaur. |
Friend wrote:Posted By: .Ryan
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 1:57pm
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Wow....so much ignorance and stupidity....it's truly mind-boggling...
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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 2:00pm
The way some people think is really disgusting. -------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 2:08pm
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It reminds me of a history channel program I just watched interviewing people who dodged the draft for Vietnam in many ways. It was an incredible program that did much more explaining then, "They were cowards." It really works a different perspective. Ohh..."Either you're with us or you're with them." |
Posted By: ANARCHY_SCOUT
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 2:32pm
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Those people disgust me. ------------- Gamertag: Kataklysm999 
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Posted By: Styro Folme
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 2:33pm
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hahaha... so the first one is saying "WE GAVE YOU THAT FREEDOM, DON'T USE IT". that is so sad but true.
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 3:17pm
| In response to the draft dodgers. screw them. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 3:18pm
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I wouldn't have gone to Vietnam either. |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 3:28pm
No. -------------
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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 3:40pm
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 4:00pm
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so... this may sound stupid but.. are gay people allowed in your military? of and in canada, we have laws to protect against descrimination like that. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 4:06pm
The policy is "Don't ask, don't tell," but openly homosexual people are not allowed to join or be a part of the United States military. It seems silly to me, especially since we have an army based on volunteers. They are willingly volunteering to serve their country, but their country does not want them. -------------
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Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 4:49pm
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Openly allowing gays into the military might deter enough people from joining to make the change harmful. It could be especially bad since apparently our whole military is in need of numbers. I agree that anyone should be allowed to serve, but I acknowledge the logic behind some discrimination the military does. One major problem with allowing females and gays to fight is relationships between squadmates. Love can severely alter the way someone behaves in combat or performs his/her MOS. Since more straight men go into infantry than females and gay people it makes more sense to ban the others. I'm not saying that they're right or justified in discrimination. I'm just saying that there are other reasons behind what the government is doing with this issue that are not just about morality. Though we should allow all people to serve any role, the logic behind what I said in the previous paragraph will always hold the government back in truly removing discrimination from the military. -------------
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Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 5:20pm
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There was a good article (the main article, in fact) in the New York Times Magazine 2 weeks ago, on women in the US armed forces.
Most of the men in it are a true disgrace to the uniform of any branch of the United States military, and so are most of the people who came up with "Don't ask, don't tell". We live in one screwed up nation--and the conservative voices in charge of the military show some of the worst of it. |
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 5:29pm
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You have a link to that article or was it just on paper?
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 6:49pm
No as in you disagree with me? Seriously screw them. They didnt answer when they were called upon. They fled and left others who also didnt want to fight do the fighting, only to be allowed back in after running like a coward from the nation they were asked to protect. |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 6:51pm
Seriously, Vietnam escalation, asked to protect our nation? Where do you get this stuff? |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 7:23pm
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You see it as running like a coward, I see it as standing up for your right not to be sent to slaughter by an aggressive, misled government. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 7:50pm
That's it. ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 8:01pm
As in I disagree with you. I find your opinion to be rather pointless. -------------
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 8:18pm
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 2:02am
It is pointless... how? |
Posted By: Apu
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 2:09am
------------- I need a new Sig... |
Posted By: Styro Folme
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 5:02am
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if people are invading, i'll fight, protect myself, my property, and my country. if i'm getting shipped over, that's not "protecting", that's what i like to call "attacking" and giving people no choice but to defend themselves against me. I am not a hypocrite, and i refuse to invade. ------------- X |
Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 12:00pm
Calling them cowards is going too easy on them, they are traitors and should be identified as such  .
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 2:12pm
Haha, traitors? Come now, thats just asinine. -------------
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Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 2:16pm
Really? So what do you call a citizen who abandons their country in a time of war? I certainly wouldn't call them model citizens. |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 2:24pm
I don't call them anything. They are just people, humans, who don't want to fight and kill other humans. You know nothing of their traits and strengths or mindsets, which is why it is silly to claim they are not "model citizens." -------------
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Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 2:35pm
So its okay for a person to abandon their country in a time of war? I guess we see things differently. I detest these cowards/traitors(Then again the country might be a better place with out them). You don't see a problem with it. Either way I'm still calling them what they are, spineless traitors  I guess you can call them Canucks
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 2:57pm
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How are they traitors when dodged mandatory military service, which is something I believe this country is against(maybe it's me?), to fight in another country that posed no threat to our country? I believe, if history taught me right(probably not), that the vietnam war started as the North Vietnamese started a war with the South Vietnamese and we got involved. Why should people have to go fight another countries civil war as a soldier in a "VOLUNTEER" military? Why should these "cowards" be labeled as traitors to this day by people that may have gone with the draft, or already signed their life away? That was their(maybe yours too?) choice to go to Vietnam instead of dodging the draft because apparently you love your country more. I'll agree with probably anyone else, if Vietnamese(then) and Iraqis(now) came here to start an all out war I would fight.
Anyway, god knows what the hell I am talking about. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 3:04pm
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ok....skipping the part where you are a moron... Did you know that thousands of canadians fought in vietnam? Not only that, they fought under your country. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 3:06pm
I really don't think you have a point, other than heated name calling, and emoticons. What makes them cowards? What makes them traitors? Explain your stance instead of making yourself sound unintelligent by not explaining and continuing to call them the same names. -------------
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Posted By: Styro Folme
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 4:41pm
but really, i call them LIVING CITIZENS. ------------- X |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 5:02pm
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They are traitors to their country who called upon them to fight in a war. The beginning of the war was actually supported as well.
If you wont defend the country where you live in a time of war when that country asks you too, then why live there in the first place? Clearly you dont love it enough to protect it. Go somewhere else then. So they are traitors. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 5:15pm
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You prove to me that it was actually defending America to fight in Vietnam, then I'll agree. But for now...your statement is misguided. |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 5:15pm
They would not have been defending the country. At all. Not even a little bit. We were not being invaded. We were fighting on foreign soil in someone elses civil war. |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 5:16pm
Hahaha. Right, those damned North Vietnamese, they were one step away from attacking America. -------------
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 5:21pm
| At the time the threat of communism was a real and valid threat. A threat which could have been extremely dangerous to America. Obviously now we know that threat is no longer valid. But at the time people were truly scared of it. So by fighting communism they were defending their country. Whether it be on foreign soil or not does not matter. We fought on European soil in both World Wars. Not American soil. Yet we view those wars as defending America. |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 5:25pm
Furthermore, simply because some people are scared of something, it does not make military action permissable. We need more than the effects of a fearmongering government, and media. |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 5:27pm
Woah. You actually believe that? Like, really? Because frankly that is a little frightening. The "threat of communism" was idiotic. We know that now. Some people knew this back then, and they chose not to fight in the meaningless war over it. That is a very poorly constructed defense of the Vietnam conflict.
Agreed to a point, but I fail to see the relevance to what we are talking about. -------------
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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 7:09pm
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"Once the Communist, now the terrorist, with blood as thick as yours..." ------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 7:44pm
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communism doesn't work good idea, poorly executed ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:14pm
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QUOTE=rednekk98]
Probably one of the most insightful comments I've seen on this subject. While, with my political leanings, I can't call the protesters who stayed and faced possible prison time "heroes", I do respect them for standing up for what they believed and trying to create a change in the political/social environment of the nation at that time. I have no respect for the ones who fled to As far as the expatriots being “traitors” as someone mentioned above,
consider this: The traditional connotation of this word, as people who turn on
their own nation and actively try to bring about her downfall, probably does
not apply. The only reason I could see for considering them traitors is because
they chose to leave the country in its time of need rather than staying and
trying to fight for change. Essentially, they abandoned the While I don’t necessarily agree with those who burned draft
cards and rioted against the war, at least they stayed. They saw what the
perceived as a threat to this country (involvement in an illegal war against a
nation that posed no direct threat to the
Communism will never work until the human factor can be controlled:
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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:31pm
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Mack- So I'd be a coward for leaving the country to avoid a draft, because I am standing up for my beliefs?
My beliefs being: -I do not want to kill people. -The war effort is wrong. -I should not be imprisoned for exercising free will in a manner which does not harm other people unduly. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:32pm
Yes, you are making a choice, but are afraid to face the consequences of that choice. Edited addition: Possibly self-centered as well. You "believe the war effort is wrong" but your personal fears of incarceration take precidence over making any attempt to initiate/instigate changes for the better. -------------
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Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:35pm
Put yourself in their shoes. The people going to fight the war were (at first) to young to vote, for the most part not volunteers, only being called upon to fight in the war because they could not afford/get into college, we fighting for a nation that as a whole were racist against them, and in general completely disagreed with the war. The spread of communism to the Vietnams would have done little to the US economy/well being, and people realized this. Add this to the fact that they were waging what seemed like an insurmountable army that they couldn't distinguish foe from ally because the only aesthetic difference was the clothing they wore, and in terrain they hated and knew very little about. I wouldn't have answered either. It would have been stupid to. Just because the government deems it necessary to fight doesn't make it so. ------------- 
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:37pm
The relevance was that someone had said you shouldnt fight a war in another country and that they wouldnt defend our country in a war that was not in our country when there is a draft. so i stated that we fought in ww1 and ww2 in europe both instances we really werent attacked. well luisitania on ww1 maybe considered an attack i'm not sure. but regardless only japan attacked us in ww2. your next arguement may be iraq didnt attack us. so in prep. for that. neither did germany in ww2 yet we fought there. |
Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:40pm
Invalid comparison. Alliances meant that because we were fighting Japan, we would eventually have to fight the Germans, and we made a preemptive effort to fight them on our terms, and not after they had taken over all of europe. -------------
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Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:44pm
Germany was destroying our economic ties, and our allies. They were also developing weapons to attack America. Not to mention Japan was their allie. Your comparisons are completely lacking. You can choose to argue that Iraq was a threat to oil "shortages"... If you wish. ------------- |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:45pm
Furthermore, the idea of going to prison for your beliefs as being morally correct is just plain weird. Nothing is gained by going to prison, only your freedom is lost, and your future (IE criminal record) possibly jeopardized. If the consequences are avoidable, then there is no imperative to take them. I'm not afraid, simply intelligent enough to realize that I have a choice. EDIT: Furthermore, you have no ground to say that I chose not to try and stand up for my beliefs. I am instigating change, regardless of whether or not I go to prison, the army has one less soldier. |
Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:48pm
BUT YOUR BALLS! You must prove that they are... ... Gigantic ------------- |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:49pm
Germany declared war on us in hoping that the Japanese would declare war on the Russians create a two front war for russia to slow them down against the germans and hopefully cause them to collapse, it failed. I know about the weapons the germans were making but we were still iffy about war until Pearl Harbor, which we reacted by declaring war against Japan. War against Germany was because they declared war on us, gave us an excuse to fight there. I fully support both areas of operations. I was merely saying my previous argument which i believe is valid but if you dont oh well. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:52pm
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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:53pm
| There is nothing wrong with taking a utilitarian point of view. |
Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:55pm
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BALLZ
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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:56pm
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Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 8:58pm
I'm glad you see eye to eye with me. ------------- |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:00pm
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Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:00pm
Ohhhhhh, the whit! ------------- |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:03pm
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Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:03pm
Quote war. It's on! ------------- |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:05pm
------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:05pm
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Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:06pm
Do you mean a thong? If so, yes. ------------- |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:07pm
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Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:08pm
Yea, I put on my old pink dance dress (Points for any one who remembers that chop) ------------- |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:10pm
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 9:18pm
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Uhh, my government does not have the authority to send me to my death in a war I do not support. They just don't. If that means I leave the country to stay a free LIVING man, so be it. I believe at that point, I would have shown I obviously did not support my country for that reason, and moving elsewhere(IE Canada) would be an appropriate display of me standing up for my beliefs. Furthermore, the "if you don't like it, then leave" mentality is so childish I am in awe over the number of people here who tout it like their personal motto. I wouldn't be surprised if people here supported reinstatement of the Sedition acts.. Obviously you military buffs feel strongly for defending the country, and I admire your patriotic stance, but do step outside the box and deeply evaluate what is or isn't a threat to the country. We've proven that fearmongers in government scared the living hell out of the citizens into supporting the opposition of communism. What's there to say we won't see more politicians/military commanders with prejudiced agendas steering the country in the wrong direction economically/politically/and most importantly, morally? Before anyone says the only way to support your country is by openly supporting a war or even fighting in it, what do you make of my tax money paying for it? What of the elections I vote in with hopes of influencing the direction the country is headed? I've run out of things to point out, I'm out for the evening, need food. -------------
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